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Scudbuster

Why Roswell Happened

73 posts in this topic

It's quite easy - video testimony from people like these folks - they have no major, compelling, hidden agenda, etc. reason to lie:

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Posted (edited)

I really wish people would not Youtube. There is no need with Roswell, it happened before the computer age, all information from the time frame can be represented in text.

Scudbuster, could I trouble you to have a look at this hypothesis, and see if you can find a place where it might be wrong. For the life of me I cannot falsify it, and I consider myself as fairly well versed on the subject As such, I see it as a very good option to consider. If nothing else, I am sure you would benefit from the supporting information regarding the events surrounding the Roswell incident.

LINK - Lost Shaman's Roswell Intelligence Operation Hypothesis.

Edited by psyche101

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"Roswell" happened because "OMG ALIENS CRASHING!" was bound to happen the moment Arnold saw his "unknown flyers" skipping like saucers past the mountains.

You have something unknown flying, eventually something unknown is going to crash.

Throw in some hysteria, some ham-fisted military intelligence (insert Groucho Marx comment here) and you've got Roswell.

Was it aliens? We punters in the public will never know. What's more interesting is what "Roswell" says about us as people. You can judge people by their reactions. You'll have four camps. Those who keep an open mind - it could be aliens or it could be a case of Welles War of the Worlds redux. There are those who are sure it was aliens. there are those who are sure it wasn't. And there are those who don't care.

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Throw in some hysteria, some ham-fisted military intelligence (insert Groucho Marx comment here) and you've got Roswell.

Interestingly Charles Moore of MOGUL fame did indeed say that quite some animosity existed at the base. With the compartmentalisation of MOGUL, the NYU were called on for the expertise on constant level balloon flights, and the "Base Boys" as Professor Moore described them did not take kindly to them.

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I don't know why the military would make such a big deal over a weather balloon though. Makes me think possibly there was an alien craft but we will never have solid proof of either.

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I really wish people would not Youtube. There is no need with Roswell, it happened before the computer age, all information from the time frame can be represented in text.

Scudbuster, could I trouble you to have a look at this hypothesis, and see if you can find a place where it might be wrong. For the life of me I cannot falsify it, and I consider myself as fairly well versed on the subject As such, I see it as a very good option to consider. If nothing else, I am sure you would benefit from the supporting information regarding the events surrounding the Roswell incident.

LINK - Lost Shaman's Roswell Intelligence Operation Hypothesis.

I checked that link - seems like its the usual "let me grab this piece of info and attach it to this tidbit and maybe it'll fly" type of investigation.

Actually, YouTube has come along at a great time, a terrific way to capture testimony before these people are long gone. I wish we had more. Imagine if video capture technology had of existed in say, 1880? Just think of the additional knowledge we would now have of the Cival War period - quite tantalizing eh?

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I don't this these people are stupid enough to jump to the "aliens" conclusion without seeing an actual body. I don't think they are stupid enough to jump to the "flying saucer" conclusion if it's a balloon. If the military was trying to keep their research secret by releasing the "flying saucer" to the press then tried to retract it when they had a chance to come to their senses that maybe it wasn't a good idea, then they are bigger idiot. So it's come down to whether these guys was lying or the military was lying. I don't know who the hell to believe. The people with the most to lose/gain is probably the liar.

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Posted (edited)

I checked that link - seems like its the usual "let me grab this piece of info and attach it to this tidbit and maybe it'll fly" type of investigation.

With all those witnesses, how is it not one single piece of debris was pocketed? Perhaps you should ask the witnesses that? According to all accounts, the public well beat the military to the debris field, yet funny enough, not one person put a piece of flying saucer in their pockets. What would you do? I know there is no way on Gods Green Earth that I could resist pocketing a piece of an Alien ship. How is it every witness managed to restrain themselves? And what about Mack Brazel's actual description of the debris itself? Have you read the newspaper articles from the time frame?

The newspaper article continued:

Brazel said that he did not see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn, so he did not know the size or shape it might have been, but he thought it might have been about as large as a table top. The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

The article went on to add:

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.

A disc as large as a table top carried aliens across space??

I hope I am not pushing a point, but you just objected, you did not say why you object, may I ask, what specifics of the hypothesis do you object to? As I said, I cannot see how it can be proven wrong, but the alien story is easy to prove as no more than hearsay that did not exist until 1979 - decades after the event, and when a UFOlogist got involved. Have you studied any of the actual releases from the time frame, and how this incident was described then, despite the media rumour mill?

If you can point out where the Hypothesis is false, I'd much appreciate it as perhaps a differnt perspective can ask a question I have not. Just objecting to it blindly is no better than a blind debunker is it? Surely you have reason to object? Again, I ask, can you please state the holes you see in it. Do you not find the maps, paper clippings, testimonies, and documents rather interesting to say the least? Not to mention how they all support the Twinning memo, which says an independent investigation is warranted? How do you explain that? And what about all the other convenient crashes in the 72 hours surrounding the event? Does that not indicate the event was going to happen some place in New Mexico no matter what?

Here is the Twining Memo for you to consider.

SUBJECT: AMC Opinion Concerning "Flying Discs"

TO: Commanding General

Army Air Force

Washington 25, D.C.

ATTENTION: Brig. General George Schulgen

AC/AS-2

1. As requested by AC/AS-2 there is presented below the considered opinion of this command concerning the so-called "Flying Discs." This opinion is based on interrogation report data furnished by AC/AS-2 and preliminary studies by personnel of T-2 and Aircraft Laboratory, Engineering Division T-3. This opinion was arrived at in a conference between personnel from the Air Institute of Technology, Intelligence T-2, Office, Chief of Engineering Division, and the Aircraft, Power Plant and Propeller Laboratories of Engineering Division T-3.

2. It is the opinion that:

a. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious.

b. There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft.

c. There is a possibility that some of the incidents may be caused by natural phenomena, such as meteors.

d. The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability (particularly in roll), and motion which must be considered
evasive
when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar, lend belief to the possibility that some of the objects are controlled either manually, automatically or remotely.

e. The apparent common description is as follows:-

(1) Metallic or light reflecting surface.

(2) Absence of trail, except in a few instances where the object apparently was operating under high performance conditions.

(3) Circular or elliptical in shape, flat on bottom and domed on top.

(4) Several reports of well kept formation flights varying from three to nine objects.

(5) Normally no associated sound, except in three instances a substantial rumbling roar was noted.

(6) Level flight speeds normally above 300 knots are estimated.

f. It is possible within the present U.S. knowledge -- provided extensive detailed development is undertaken -- to construct a piloted aircraft which has the general description of the object in sub- paragraph (e) above which would be capable of an approximate range of 7000 miles at subsonic speeds.

g. Any development in this country along the lines indicated would be extremely expensive, time consuming and at the considerable expense of current projects and therefore, if directed, should be set up independently of existing projects.

h. Due consideration must be given the following:-

(1) The possibility that these objects are of domestic origin - the product of some high security project not known to AC/AS-2 or this Command.

(2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these subjects.

(3) The possibility that some foreign nation has a form of propulsion possibly nuclear, which is outside of our domestic knowledge.

3. It is recommended that:-

a. Headquarters, Army Air Forces issue a directive assigning a priority, security classification and Code name for a detailed study of this matter to include the preparation of complete sets of all available and pertinent data which will then be made available to the Army, Navy, Atomic Energy Commission, JRDB, the Air Force Scientific Advisory Group, NACA, and the RAND and NEPA projects for comments and recommendations, with a preliminary report to be forwarded within 15 days of receipt of the data and a detailed report thereafter every 30 days as the investigation develops. A complete interchange of data should be affected.

4. Awaiting a specific directive AMC will continue the investigation within its current resources in order to more closely define the nature of the phenomenon. Detailed Essential Elements of Information will be formulated immediately for transmittal thru channels.

Just a musing of my own, some food for thought. We like to base the likelihood of the existence of Alien life on statistics right? Too many stars in the sky to not have life and all that? What about f we apply similar statistics to the Roswell Incident?

Lets say for kicks that an Alien craft did crash in Roswell, and that is fact, not question. The debris as you can see above does not have an panels, no knobs buttons of handles of any kind, there are no engines, no technology, not even an alien resistor, nothing. What we do have described is some waxed paper, rubber backed foil, and balsa wood. (see above) Now the Roswell people did say these were not foil, balsa wood and waxed paper, they said it looked exactly like the stuff, but exhibited different properties, lik the foil folded back, the wood did not burn, they could not dent the metal. Right? But in all cases, it is agreed that the alien materials looked exactly like the much weaker earth counterparts.

Now for the odds. Imagine this.

These aliens not only live on a planet in some distant part of the galaxy (presumably they come form the Milky Way - according to the more exotic version of the tale) but these very aliens just happen to have materials that look just like Balas Wood, foil and waxed paper. That is amazing in itself I have to say, but this goes further. Not only do these aliens happen to have materials that look like weak materials here on earth, but they made a spaceship out of just those component's, nothing at all that looks exotic, everything has a visual equal here on our earth, then hey fly is across space, crash it on one of the most predicable weather patterns in the entire solar system, but not just on the planet, but in that tiny corner where you guessed it, the Military just happens to have a covert project going that utilises foil, balsa wood and waxed paper. And that the items look so similar, to the naked eye they cannot be separated, but when you try to manipulate them the alien tech becomes apparent.

They are some seriously long odds. Dead set, the string of amazing co-incidences is astounding wouldn't you say?

However, I have to say that it is a cryng shame you appear to be glancing over Lost Shamans Hypothesis, and deciding it is just debunking stuff, I could really use a hand on that, perhaps I should just wait until Quillius is free so I can get a more balanced evaluation. If you don't want to face up to this viable alternative, just say so. I have been severely dispointed with the believers of late, the bar has really dropped since the MacGuff departed and Q is so very busy. I really hope you can rise to this challenge. Quillius seems to be the only one game to defend the UFO phenomena from a believers perspective these days, everyone else just gets upset and yells SHUT UP WOULD YOU. To be frank, I cannot see why people have any faith in it considering this very fact.

Actually, YouTube has come along at a great time, a terrific way to capture testimony before these people are long gone. I wish we had more. Imagine if video capture technology had of existed in say, 1880? Just think of the additional knowledge we would now have of the Cival War period - quite tantalizing eh?

Unfortunately, we did not, or we might get a better description of the 1896 Airship that remains a mystery to this day as well. Although I have not seen the Youtube vid, as it is a real pain for me, and have to log in on my phone to do so, I have absolutely every confidence I can answer any question on it that may be raised. Whilst you may find it suited to your purposes, I would ask that you kindly consider the wishes of those who cannot access this particular medium for the sake of discussion if nothing else. The main problem and my personal bugbear with Youtube is that it is not in any way moderated Anyone can manipulate or create anything they want, upload it and say it ia genuine. That a big drawback for Youtube's credibility, and as such, any Youtube reference I feel to remain valid should really be supported by other sources.

Edited by psyche101
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Posted (edited)

I don't this these people are stupid enough to jump to the "aliens" conclusion without seeing an actual body. I don't think they are stupid enough to jump to the "flying saucer" conclusion if it's a balloon. If the military was trying to keep their research secret by releasing the "flying saucer" to the press then tried to retract it when they had a chance to come to their senses that maybe it wasn't a good idea, then they are bigger idiot. So it's come down to whether these guys was lying or the military was lying. I don't know who the hell to believe. The people with the most to lose/gain is probably the liar.

From what I understand, the MIlitary lose, and the public gain.

The Military even had to put on an extra person just to handle Roswell alien related calls, even today. This cuts into their budget, as do the reports that have been dismissed by people who have not even read them, and have no idea what is in them. Not to mention a blow from public confidence, which has to have some impact on recruitment drives. If you consider this is now 60 years + and all it has done is cost the USAF money and grief. I am nor sure what advantage has come from it. Corso claims back engineering for stealth technology, yet we have firm records from several countries that were delving into stealth tech long before Arnolds sighting, he claims Microwaves are an alien device, which is again poppycock, microwaves were first proposed as high frequency fields as far back as 1934. So the Government is not benefiting there, private enterprise is.

And for all the stories, how many books have been written published an sold? What about the festival every year that gives the town a major financial boost? What about the many interviews, the UFO circuits, the paid lectures, all on making crap up. How many News headlines have benefited from this tale, TV shows, memorabilia. The Chuck Wades, the Frank Kimbler's, the Stanton Friedmans, people who have built up international recognition for making crap up. What have they proven? What results have we got? Tall tales, outright lies, and hype.

But what did the USAF give us? A reasonable explanation that they stated you should read for yourself and make your own mind up on it containing facts, dates, names, the witnesses and military information and advice the average person would not be privy to. Check how it was released, you will find it in Youtube, that is how it was released. Which has in turn been summarily dismissed by people who have never laid eyes on a copy of it. It gives the UFO people something else to make crap up about. I have already illustrated that CB has done just this over the last week or so. For this they are victimised?

People love a mystery, and are willing to pay for one. It's just human nature. Roswell is anything but alien, it is a very good example of man and our desires if anything.

Edited by psyche101

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I really wish people would not Youtube. There is no need with Roswell, it happened before the computer age, all information from the time frame can be represented in text.

Scudbuster, could I trouble you to have a look at this hypothesis, and see if you can find a place where it might be wrong. For the life of me I cannot falsify it, and I consider myself as fairly well versed on the subject As such, I see it as a very good option to consider. If nothing else, I am sure you would benefit from the supporting information regarding the events surrounding the Roswell incident.

LINK - Lost Shaman's Roswell Intelligence Operation Hypothesis.

I like that theory. I am not sure I agree with all aspects of it still, but I am still exploring with the limited time I have. Nonetheless, it is a very well argued case put forth by LS!

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Its all in a days book sales ! Seems to be the facts about Roswell,How much and for how long is the question?

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I like that theory. I am not sure I agree with all aspects of it still, but I am still exploring with the limited time I have. Nonetheless, it is a very well argued case put forth by LS!

Cheers,

Badeskov

Gidday mate

I agree, it is awesome, and it also does illustrate a mindset. People who claim to be "open minded" have to put their money where their mouth is, and you just do not see that with this hypothesis :D. They just go "shut up would ya" or "I don't believe it" which considering the hypothesis I think really means "I don't get it"

I know I have grilled Lost Shaman on this, and he answered all my questions beyond my satisfaction. I viewed it with a skeptical eye, but had to admit, it's pretty sound. I would appreciate anyone asking questions, I feel it deserves more exposure than everything Bragalia has contributed to the subject, yet remains in the shadows. That seems a crying shame. I hope we can turn that around. Good guy LS, I feel he is often misunderstood as so many can only see believer and skeptic, but he belongs more the the NP (natural phenomena) option, which throws the traditional debaters off balance a little.

Cheers.

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Unfortunately, we did not, or we might get a better description of the 1896 Airship that remains a mystery to this day as well. Although I have not seen the Youtube vid, as it is a real pain for me, and have to log in on my phone to do so, I have absolutely every confidence I can answer any question on it that may be raised. Whilst you may find it suited to your purposes, I would ask that you kindly consider the wishes of those who cannot access this particular medium for the sake of discussion if nothing else. The main problem and my personal bugbear with Youtube is that it is not in any way moderated Anyone can manipulate or create anything they want, upload it and say it ia genuine. That a big drawback for Youtube's credibility, and as such, any Youtube reference I feel to remain valid should really be supported by other sources.

Given the intensity of the cleanup - of course we are not going to see direct evidence of what crashed.

I have seen that memo before, and as Gen Thomas DuBose has indicated in his video, very , very, few people were cleared to have knowledge of the Roswell incident after 1947- this guy was apparently one of them. Of course he has no knowledge of recovered anything.

I really think you should get access to YouTube, you would find it quite enlightening to listen to these people.

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Posted (edited)

I don't know why the military would make such a big deal over a weather balloon though. Makes me think possibly there was an alien craft but we will never have solid proof of either.

It was mentioned like half a dozen times (if you are lucky!) over the ensuing 30 or so years. It only took off again in 1979 when Stanton Friedman got involved with Jesse Marcel and made up the aliens. 1948 to 1979 - bugger all. Then SF gave the media not only aliens, but a CT.

That is why there is no reference in any original document to Aliens concerning this incident before 1979. As Scudbuster said, it is indeed a shame we did not have youtube at the time. Putting the claims at the time side by side with the current inflated claims would not only be telling, but very interesting indeed. This is a story that has been through 60 years of Chinese Whispers throughout all parts of the media. The current imaginative version of the tale is really no surprise to be honest.

The main reason for making any deal at all about the weather balloon is that the USAF described cause of the crash - that being project MOGUL - was classified Top Secret at the time. It was not declassified for decades, and when it was, McAndrews included this information in his public report on Roswell. MOGUL was a spy project that was supposed to pick up seismic disturbances to let the US military know (there was not USAF at the time, it was created later that year) if Russia was experimenting with Nuclear weapons. It was eventually discontinued in favour of more effective methods. The first Russian atomic weapon was actually detected by a plane.

Edited by psyche101

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Posted (edited)

Given the intensity of the cleanup - of course we are not going to see direct evidence of what crashed.

Again that is subject to who you speak to, and it does not change the very fact that the citizens beat the military to the debris field - check the accounts yourself, no amount of cleaning would recover one pocketed piece of flying saucer, again, as a human being, I lack the willpower to refrain from pocketing a piece of flying saucer, and I have to say, that pretty much everyone I know is of the same opinion.

If you read Mack Brazels story, you will find his wife thought the gathered materials was - in her words - just ordinary rubbish. She swept it of the back porch, and according to all accounts, a concrete slab was placed there soon afterwards. It seems highly likely that original debris may well lie beneath the concrete. UFOlogists know this, heck, I know this, yet not one has shown you with so much as a metal detector, let alone tried to break up the slab to inspect that which lies beneath it. They would rather put all their claims on the USAF declassification of the materials that were released in 1990 (I think, I may well have that date wrong) which when turned out to be as was always described - a RAWIN and balloon bits, the FFTB's screamed cover up, and switched material, and that is always the case when something mundane turns up. Seriously, that catch-cry is getting a bit long in the tooth.

I have seen that memo before, and as Gen Thomas DuBose has indicated in his video, very , very, few people were cleared to have knowledge of the Roswell incident after 1947- this guy was apparently one of them. Of course he has no knowledge of recovered anything.

LOL, he did not even write the memo, but I feel he organised the incident! DId you notice the last lines of the memo?

3. It is recommended that:-

a. Headquarters, Army Air Forces issue a directive assigning a priority, security classification and Code name for a detailed study of this matter to include the preparation of complete sets of all available and pertinent data which will then be made available to the Army, Navy, Atomic Energy Commission, JRDB, the Air Force Scientific Advisory Group, NACA, and the RAND and NEPA projects for comments and recommendations, with a preliminary report to be forwarded within 15 days of receipt of the data and a detailed report thereafter every 30 days as the investigation develops. A complete interchange of data should be affected.

4. Awaiting a specific directive AMC will continue the investigation within its current resources in order to more closely define the nature of the phenomenon. Detailed Essential Elements of Information will be formulated immediately for transmittal thru channels.

He is saying outright that the phenomena is to be investigated without outside interference. Now consider all those crashed RAWIN's in the 72 hours surrounding the event. Not meant to happen? I really think it was meant to happen. Roswell would be an opportunity for the military to evaluate, and see if they can use that which we know as a UFO. It might have been the answer Tesla claimed to have with wireless electricity even. As such, it could change the world as we know it. Free and wireless power. Edison knocked Tesla back in the day saying if you cannot meter it, you cannot charge for it, so it is useless. The implications for Plasma type UFO's being utilised as free energy outweigh the aliens stories by a long shot as far as benifits to man goes.

I really think you should get access to YouTube, you would find it quite enlightening to listen to these people.

My kids were the main reason I had it blocked at the router. They abuse it, and I catch them watching what I feel are adult clips, which even have some pretty serious swearing in them. And they cannot restrict themselves. I never watch documentaries or the like there because 99% of the time the quality is rubbish, I'd rather buy and watch the HD DVD version. All I ever used it for was funny things, but even Epic Rap Battles of History have managed to get a little too adult for the audience. It's like they say, you can only blame yourself for what you kids access, so sorry to disappoint but I wont be hooking it back up for the family anytime soon. I have to rely on my phone, or a work computer. And that is rather inconvenient most of the time. As such, I always request for transcripts if possible were possible.

I found it worthwhile the trouble to log on to YT to see Seth Macfarlane at the Oscars I have to admit. He is one funny guy. That song that upset all those actresses is really, really, funny.

Edited by psyche101

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This Battlefield will have no competition!11.jpg

manuel-que.jpeg

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I don't really participate in this category.

But, Roswell was obviously a crash of some sort that the government wanted to keep hidden.

Why?

We can keep on theorizing, but no permanent solution will be called upon..

We already know something is out there, whether it be unknown military aircraft or extraterrestrials, by all of the footage shown.. Not to mention all the eyewitness testimonies.

Why create a question upon the question of what really crashed in Roswell?

Why theorize? I'm sure "aliens" have malfunctions in their machinery.

I guess I should retire myself from this site..

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I don't know why the military would make such a big deal over a weather balloon though. Makes me think possibly there was an alien craft but we will never have solid proof of either.

Well, it makes sense if said weather balloon was carrying highly sensitive equipment, like Project Mogul. Honestly, what doesn't make sense for me is if it was indeed an ET craft. You would think that even in 1947 they would have some sense of quarantining as they would have no idea of the risk of biological/chemical/nuclear contamination. In my honest opinion the operation would have been of a caliber that could not go by unnoticed for 30 years if the latter was the case.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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I don't really participate in this category.

But, Roswell was obviously a crash of some sort that the government wanted to keep hidden.

Why?

We can keep on theorizing, but no permanent solution will be called upon..

We already know something is out there, whether it be unknown military aircraft or extraterrestrials, by all of the footage shown.. Not to mention all the eyewitness testimonies.

Why create a question upon the question of what really crashed in Roswell?

Why theorize? I'm sure "aliens" have malfunctions in their machinery.

I guess I should retire myself from this site..

No Oh ! No ! dont retire they only pay you half of what you already dont get in here ! Please grace us with your wisdom,intelligence ,ect point-of-view`s. Please we need new blood !

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Gidday mate!

Gidday mate

I agree, it is awesome, and it also does illustrate a mindset. People who claim to be "open minded" have to put their money where their mouth is, and you just do not see that with this hypothesis :D. They just go "shut up would ya" or "I don't believe it" which considering the hypothesis I think really means "I don't get it"

Indeed.

I know I have grilled Lost Shaman on this, and he answered all my questions beyond my satisfaction. I viewed it with a skeptical eye, but had to admit, it's pretty sound. I would appreciate anyone asking questions,

Oh, I know you have! While not participating I have certainly been following :P

I feel it deserves more exposure than everything Bragalia has contributed to the subject, yet remains in the shadows.

Well, lets not go down the Bragalia path, shall we? That would be an insult to LS!

That seems a crying shame. I hope we can turn that around. Good guy LS, I feel he is often misunderstood as so many can only see believer and skeptic, but he belongs more the the NP (natural phenomena) option, which throws the traditional debaters off balance a little.

He is a skeptic in my point of view. He will question whatever is put in front of him, but with an open mind. As all should do.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Posted (edited)

I don't really participate in this category.

Of course you do, look at you go!

But, Roswell was obviously a crash of some sort that the government wanted to keep hidden.

Why?

Officially the crash was a project MOGUL ballon train, consisting of around 28 balloons about 600 foot long, and loaded with sensitive instruments. This was a secret project designed to spy on Russia's atomic weapon program. As such, and being in the thick of the Cold War, the operation was kept secret. The US did not want Russia knowing how they were spying on them, because it would inflate tensions and give Russia a chance to counter the operation so the US would then learn nothing.

But I would recommend the links I have left to Lost Shamans Hypothesis.

We can keep on theorizing, but no permanent solution will be called upon..

I feel if was can restrict ourselves to the documents from the tome frame pertaining to the incident, and the activity around it, and ignore the media hype, then we have a reasonable chance of learning quite a bit about the incident.

We already know something is out there, whether it be unknown military aircraft or extraterrestrials, by all of the footage shown.. Not to mention all the eyewitness testimonies.

It is puzzling that it never leaves the atmosphere and goes into space, or arrives from space don't you think? With all these RADAR confirmations, not one can show us that these things actually come from space. It would seem an earthly phenomena is a far more likely answer. If UFO's are some form of free plasma that can be harnessed, it may well end our energy problems for ever. That too is something we might find rather important.

Why create a question upon the question of what really crashed in Roswell?

Because that question generates money, and lots of it, from the towns festival, to media releases, books, movies interviews, the UFO speaking circuit, it is an endless cash cow that near everyone willing to make something up can take a bite of.

Why theorize? I'm sure "aliens" have malfunctions in their machinery.

Theory is not required, we have many documents we can use for direction.

Do you not feel a malfunction is a bit convenient? Crossing space, only to crash here, right in the tiny corner of the galaxy where the military just happens to be experimenting with a project that utilises materials that happen to match the crafts alleged construction visually exactly?

I guess I should retire myself from this site..

Why on earth would you do that. You are barely starting to ask questions.

Edited by psyche101

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Posted (edited)

Why create a question upon the question of what really crashed in Roswell?

Easy.

To distract people from anything genuine.

Basically, the armed forces/government did it all. Either something geuinely human made crashed or was made to crash. They get "a reliable witness" to say "it weren't anything like I'd seen before!" and then debunk it in such a way as for it to look poorly handled. People will then pick at it like a scab and ignore any new scars (ie potentially genuine alien crashes).

You get the bonus of saying "look at Roswell, that was misidentification, just like now" for any future events.

It's not out of this world, after all it's what I'd do if I was asked to come up with a "plausible denial" routine.

Edited by Wearer of Hats

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I checked that link - seems like its the usual "let me grab this piece of info and attach it to this tidbit and maybe it'll fly" type of investigation.

Scudbuster,

It wasnt an investigation. That ATS thread is so old! I posted that within 48 hours of contiplating the hypothesis. everything you see there is information that was known I just put it together in a new way that makes sense.

I have investigated it in the years since and I can't falsify that hypothesis I proposed all those years ago. It has been discussed here on UM for years, it is just not all laid out in one place. The hypothesis itself has been public for years; but as psyche points out it is not going to help either camp if my hypothesis is true.

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I checked that link - seems like its the usual "let me grab this piece of info and attach it to this tidbit and maybe it'll fly" type of investigation.

Actually, YouTube has come along at a great time, a terrific way to capture testimony before these people are long gone. I wish we had more. Imagine if video capture technology had of existed in say, 1880? Just think of the additional knowledge we would now have of the Cival War period - quite tantalizing eh?

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To me it seems rather obvious that this is a military clean-up of something that they didn't want found out at the time. LS's hypothesis is, from what I read, not bad at all. Also there are a multitude of things this could have been, a prototype plane, plane recuperated from Nazi research, like the Horten 229, new spy gear balloon test...etc.

Hell for all we know it was a Horten 229 that crashed there. God knows it was a shape that could have been confusing for people at the time and looked exactly like what Kenneth Arnold was describing as well. And yes I'm aware I'm probably not the only one that has had that idea.

horten22914.jpg

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