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Merc14

Lawmakers/Aides try to get out of Obamacare

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They should be able to get out of it and have better coverage; they're our government leaders, they're way more important than you or I. They always look out for us and know what is best, we should just all get along and trust them completely, and make sure they enjoy the ultimate comforts and luxuries in life.

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If you go back further and compare to the numbers shortly after Obama took office, in CBO's March 2009 Medicare baseline, the differences are even more stark. Take a particular year and look at their projections across the years. How much is Medicare going to cost in 2019? Ask CBO in 2009 and they'll say $943 billion; ask earlier this year and they'll say $811 billion.

...and ask today and they'll say $794 billion.

The CBO continues its trend of revising downward its Medicare cost estimates every time it updates its budget numbers. Since they came out with their last set of budget numbers in February, empirical reality has again intervened and they've released updated numbers today:

In particular, additional data on spending in 2013 caused CBO to reduce projected spending by about 1 percent for Medicare benefits this year and over the 2014–2023 period.

Compared with amounts in the February 2013 baseline, estimated spending for Medicare benefits over the 2014–2023 period is lower for all major components of the program—Part A (hospital insurance), Part B (medical insurance), and Part D (outpatient prescription drug benefits).

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What does "free market" mean in this context? A system in which insurers get to pick the rules they want to play by and consumers have to be content with whatever scraps they can find?

So you don't understand what a free market economy is? Listen, believe what you want, I'll leave you alone. Sad stuff right here.

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They should be able to get out of it and have better coverage; they're our government leaders, they're way more important than you or I. They always look out for us and know what is best, we should just all get along and trust them completely, and make sure they enjoy the ultimate comforts and luxuries in life.

You forgot a smily to show sarcasm, or a comment to indicate you're teasing..... :innocent:

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So you don't understand what a free market economy is? Listen, believe what you want, I'll leave you alone. Sad stuff right here.

I'm asking what you understand it to be in this context. That's the point of talking to other people.

I obviously consider an appropriate market for health insurance to be one in which insurers have to compete on price and quality, not by shedding risk and hiding behind the opacity of byzantine benefit designs that don't allow consumers to comparison shop. Giving insurers license to write their own rules, skimp on benefits, and discriminate on factors like gender and medical history isn't how I define a free market.

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Hey Star, my home is now officialy without health care coverage cause of the insane price hikes. All directly cause of 0bama care. Please tell me how im better off???

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Hey Star, my home is now officialy without health care coverage cause of the insane price hikes. All directly cause of 0bama care. Please tell me how im better off???

If you don't have access to affordable coverage through work, you're about to gain access to thousands of dollars in federal subsidies to help you shop for your own.

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If you don't have access to affordable coverage through work, you're about to gain access to thousands of dollars in federal subsidies to help you shop for your own.

Well considering my insurance was through one of the top companies through work, I doubt I will qualify as someone who doesnt have "affordable coverage". And even if that is the case, now I have to become a burdon to my fellow American tax payers? No sir, that will never happen. Nor should it have to. Im not rich by any stretch, but I make enough where I shouldnt have to depend on government handouts. And if not for this nightmare legislation I wouldnt have to.

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If you don't have access to affordable coverage through work, you're about to gain access to thousands of dollars in federal subsidies to help you shop for your own.

Which is MEDICAID, and it don't cover **** (pardon my French)....

Most doctors and surgeons do not accept it, mostly cause the paper work is a nightmare, and they are afraid the government won't pay them for their services. Most of time Medicaid only pays, like 10%...Which is why a lot of clinics and doctors won't accept it.

I don't know what these government idiots are smoking. You can't put millions of people on a health plan that NO ONE ACCEPTS. It's beyond retarded...

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From Jim Geraghty's Morning Jolt:

Insurance companies feel it. You think the mood in Washington and across the country is foul now? Wait until the Obamacare premium hikes kick in:

Internal cost estimates from 17 of the nation's largest insurance companies indicate that health insurance premiums will grow an average of 100 percent under Obamacare, and that some will soar more than 400 percent, crushing the administration's goal of affordability.

New regulations, policies, taxes, fees and mandates are the reason for the unexpected "rate shock," according to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which released a report Monday based on internal documents provided by the insurance companies. The 17 companies include Aetna, Blue Cross Blue Shield and Kaiser Foundation.

The report found that individuals will face "premium increases of nearly 100 percent on average, with potential highs eclipsing 400 percent. Meanwhile, small businesses can expect average premium increases in the small group market of up to 50 percent, with potential highs over 100 percent."

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From Jim Geraghty's Morning Jolt:

Insurance companies feel it. You think the mood in Washington and across the country is foul now? Wait until the Obamacare premium hikes kick in:

Internal cost estimates from 17 of the nation's largest insurance companies indicate that health insurance premiums will grow an average of 100 percent under Obamacare, and that some will soar more than 400 percent, crushing the administration's goal of affordability.

New regulations, policies, taxes, fees and mandates are the reason for the unexpected "rate shock," according to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which released a report Monday based on internal documents provided by the insurance companies. The 17 companies include Aetna, Blue Cross Blue Shield and Kaiser Foundation.

The report found that individuals will face "premium increases of nearly 100 percent on average, with potential highs eclipsing 400 percent. Meanwhile, small businesses can expect average premium increases in the small group market of up to 50 percent, with potential highs over 100 percent."

Thanks for posting this.

The report found that individuals will face "premium increases of nearly 100 percent on average, with potential highs eclipsing 400 percent. Meanwhile, small businesses can expect average premium increases in the small group market of up to 50 percent, with potential highs over 100 percent."

One company said that new participants in the individual market could see a premium increase of 413 percent when new requirements on age rating and required benefits are taken into account, said the report. "The average yearly cost for a new customer in the individual market grows from $1,896 to $3,708 -- a $1,812 cost increase," it added.

The key reasons for the surge in premiums include providing wider services than people are now paying for and adding less healthy people to the rolls of insured, said the report.

It concluded: "Despite promises that the law will lower costs, [Obamacare] will in fact cause the premiums of many Americans to spike substantially. The broken promises are numerous, and the empirical data reveal that many Americans, from recent college graduates to older adults, will not be able to afford the law's higher costs."

Who in the world can afford that?? :no:

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't matter who can afford that, as Merc14's signature says...

Stand by for suck.

lol

Edited by xFelix

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Doesn't matter who can afford that, as Merc14's signature says...

Stand by for suck.

lol

Yep...It's gonna suck...

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Counting down to suck too here. T minus 7.5 months.

Well considering my insurance was through one of the top companies through work, I doubt I will qualify as someone who doesnt have "affordable coverage". And even if that is the case, now I have to become a burdon to my fellow American tax payers? No sir, that will never happen. Nor should it have to. Im not rich by any stretch, but I make enough where I shouldnt have to depend on government handouts. And if not for this nightmare legislation I wouldnt have to.

Love the attitude. I too absolutely refuse to be a burden to others. Maybe, perhaps if when one day I have kids and we are seriously down and out for some reason I might swallow my pride and do it for them but only if I really really really had to. For now, I'll go far into debt and have everything I own either sold or repossessed before I ever come close to considering public assistance.

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Well considering my insurance was through one of the top companies through work, I doubt I will qualify as someone who doesnt have "affordable coverage".

I'm just going by what you're saying. If you have an offer of affordable coverage then accept it.

And even if that is the case, now I have to become a burdon to my fellow American tax payers? No sir, that will never happen. Nor should it have to. Im not rich by any stretch, but I make enough where I shouldnt have to depend on government handouts. And if not for this nightmare legislation I wouldnt have to.

It's a rare taxpayer who refuses a tax break on general principle (somehow I suspect you didn't choose to pay taxes on your tax-privileged employer-sponsored plan for similar scruples) but do whatever you like.

Which is MEDICAID, and it don't cover **** (pardon my French)....

We're not talking about Medicaid, we're talking about using a tax credit to shop for a private insurance plan in the new marketplaces.

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I'm just going by what you're saying. If you have an offer of affordable coverage then accept it.

It's a rare taxpayer who refuses a tax break on general principle (somehow I suspect you didn't choose to pay taxes on your tax-privileged employer-sponsored plan for similar scruples) but do whatever you like.

We're not talking about Medicaid, we're talking about using a tax credit to shop for a private insurance plan in the new marketplaces.

You have wonderful faith in hwhat they have dished out to you but the reality is playing out wildly different from your euphorcic support of this program. No we are faced with the IRS and its 16,000 new investigators running our healthcare in a few years and that should send a chill down anyone's spine. Once the field has been hollowed out and the democrats have their single payer system in-place, there will be absolutely nothing stopping them from persecuting their political enemies through the healthcare system and don't you dare accuse me of paranoia becausde we are seeingt he reality play out right now.

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Quite possibly Merc. The healthcare Nazis say: No Care For YOU!!!

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You have wonderful faith in hwhat they have dished out to you but the reality is playing out wildly different from your euphorcic support of this program.

I find the baseless hysteria amusing, so by all means keep it up.

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Posted (edited)

I find the baseless hysteria amusing, so by all means keep it up.

I guess you aren't watching what is happening with the IRS. Are you saying it is hysterical to assume that these people can't be trusted, especially with my access to healthcare?

Edited by Merc14

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What kind of insurance can you get for 1000 dollars. That equals 83 dollars a month. Even with my work paying most of my insurance, I pay 250 a month right now. And that does not include what I pay out of pocket.

I used to work for a place that had bargan basement insurance, and after I had gotten married and wanted to add my wife to the insurance, they told me it would be 500 dollars a month. Which was about a quarter of my paycheck at the time. That was a big motivator to move to a better company.

My insurance costs about the same as it did 5 years ago, BUT... the stuff it covers has degraded, the minimums and maximums have moved in the less favorable direction and the percentages paid have gotten worse. The issue is not just about cost, but what you get for your money. A company could see insurance for 10 dollars a month, but if they only cover a handful of situations and only pay out after you spend 1000 dollars of your own money, what real good is that???

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From Jim Geraghty's Morning Jolt:

Insurance companies feel it. You think the mood in Washington and across the country is foul now? Wait until the Obamacare premium hikes kick in:

Internal cost estimates from 17 of the nation's largest insurance companies indicate that health insurance premiums will grow an average of 100 percent under Obamacare, and that some will soar more than 400 percent, crushing the administration's goal of affordability.

New regulations, policies, taxes, fees and mandates are the reason for the unexpected "rate shock," according to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which released a report Monday based on internal documents provided by the insurance companies. The 17 companies include Aetna, Blue Cross Blue Shield and Kaiser Foundation.

The report found that individuals will face "premium increases of nearly 100 percent on average, with potential highs eclipsing 400 percent. Meanwhile, small businesses can expect average premium increases in the small group market of up to 50 percent, with potential highs over 100 percent."

Now that we are starting to see first hand that this is true, I wonder how many people would have supported this had they known thier premiums were gonna at least double. Its like you can count on the oposite of what ever this guy says.

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Now that we are starting to see first hand that this is true, I wonder how many people would have supported this had they known thier premiums were gonna at least double. Its like you can count on the oposite of what ever this guy says.

You can thank the sycophant MSM for making sure the truth never got out. It never got out about what Obama really is and never got out about this disastrous healthcare plan.

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I guess you aren't watching what is happening with the IRS. Are you saying it is hysterical to assume that these people can't be trusted, especially with my access to healthcare?

I don't know what it is you think the IRS is charged with doing in implementing the ACA, but the reality is it's still just implementing tax law.

What kind of insurance can you get for 1000 dollars.

A company could see insurance for 10 dollars a month, but if they only cover a handful of situations and only pay out after you spend 1000 dollars of your own money, what real good is that???

Exactly, not very good insurance at all. A lot of the products that get sold in the individual market (unlike the ones sold to groups through an employer) are very shoddy. Part of the point of the reforms is to bring what's available to people in the individual market more in line with what's available in the group markets (and to provide financial assistance to make that feasible).

Now that we are starting to see first hand that this is true, I wonder how many people would have supported this had they known thier premiums were gonna at least double. Its like you can count on the oposite of what ever this guy says.

The effects are going to vary but next year's rates are starting to come out and provide a little more clarity on what to expect. For instance, Washington state's premium numbers were released this week. One prominent insurer had predicted 70% increases. Turns out, whoops.

Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange

Despite predictions of rate shocks, most consumers in Washington state will actually see lower premiums and enhanced coverage when they buy insurance through the state's health insurance exchange.

Washington Insurance Commissioner Mike Kreidler on Tuesday released rates proposed by insurers, including Premera Blue Cross, Lifewise, Group Health Cooperative, BridgeSpan and Molina Health Care of Washington, for health plans they will sell on the state-run online marketplace, called the Washington Health Plan Finder, reported the Spokesman-Review.

And those prices don't include federal subsidies available to consumers, so the premiums that consumers will pay actually will be less than the rates proposed.

"We're pleasantly surprised with the individual rates we've seen so far," Kreidler said. "In many cases, people will get better benefits and pay less--especially if they qualify for subsidies."

We're seeing the effects of new competition in Oregon's exchange: Two Oregon insurers rethink 2014 premiums as state posts first-ever rate comparison

This is what competition looks like: One health insurer wants to charge $169 a month next year to cover a 40-year-old Portland-area non-smoker. Another wants $422 a month for the same standard plan.

The new health insurance marketplace envisioned by federal health reforms doesn't formally kick in until fall. But it already is taking shape – and consumers for the first time can compare, premium by premium, identical plans by different insurers. Soon they'll be able to compare benefit-by-benefit as well.

On Thursday, a comparison of proposed 2014 health premiums became public online, causing two insurers to request do-overs to lower their rates even before the state determines whether they're justified.

The unusual development was sparked by a comparison that used to be impossible because plan benefits varied so widely. But under the federal reforms that take effect Jan. 1, health insurance is mandated and every insurer must offer certain standard plans.

It looks like premiums are actually likely to drop in New York (which is unusual and unique to their market conditions) and Vermont's premium numbers (released last month) show that shoppers will pay roughly what they pay now but for better coverage.

The numbers will vary from state to state and, to an extent, from person to person. I'm sure some particularly skimpy "insurance" plans will see jumps next year as they come into line with industry standards, offering respectable benefits and consumer protections for the first time. But these constant predictions that everyone's premiums are about to double or quadruple or whatever simply aren't borne out by the real live premium numbers for next year that are already available

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That's all well and good, but is the medical industry prepared to handle all the "new" customers?

Not that the Obamacare plan is bad in theory, I do predict a system overload. With the fallout being that some will leave the practice.

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Posted (edited)

It looks like premiums are actually likely to drop in New York (which is unusual and unique to their market conditions) and Vermont's premium numbers (released last month) show that shoppers will pay roughly what they pay now but for better coverage.

Im in NY, and it doesnt look that way at all. Again, I now litteraly cant afford to insure my family. I was pushed outta the market completly. The prices have already raised over 70%.

There is no way you really believe the prices are going to go back down do you? Cause Id be willing to bet the farm that that will never happen.

Edited by preacherman76
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