What are we really doing Afghanistan?

[Irrelevant]

Because I'm making a point of it... what is the justification for the statements below, if the core reason as to why these countries are in Afghanistan is to help and protect

-Australian special forces soldiers killed 5 Afghan children in an attack on a compound in the Uruzgan province of southern Afghanistan.It was decided that no charges were to be brought against two Australian soldiers who killed five afghan children

and many more similar, civilian deaths, many of which involve children.

This is the official report on that

AUSTRALIAN special forces soldiers have killed five children in an attack on a compound in Afghanistan.

The tragedy has triggered a strong warning from the Afghan Government that civilian deaths are playing into the hands of the Taliban.

Afghan ambassador Amanullah Jayhoon said his Government was very concerned that the Australians had not co-ordinated the operation with Afghan security forces.

The ambassador said 1000 civilians were killed by Coalition forces last year and such killings were eroding support for the Afghan Government.

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"There is no doubt that the Australian troops are doing their best in a very difficult and dangerous place," the ambassador told the Nine Network.

The Australian Defence Force chief of joint operations, Lieutenant-General Mark Evans, said the soldiers were involved in an operation in Oruzgan province, southern Afghanistan, in darkness early on Thursday.

"During the conduct of this operation there was an exchange of fire between our forces and the Taliban," General Evans said.

"Tragically, a number of people were killed and wounded during this incident."

A suspected insurgent was killed along with five Afghan children. No Australians were hurt.

Australians operated under strict rules of engagement and set out to avoid civilian casualties at all times, General Evans said.

"The Taliban operate within the civilian community. We do everything we can to avoid civilian casualties and deeply regret the loss of innocent life."

The ADF has launched an investigation, which would take several weeks to complete, he said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-troops-kill-5-afghan-children-20090213-874z.html#ixzz2RZ7dz5NN

[Irrelevant]

Rember there wouldn't be a govt at all if the allies weren't there.. I can assure you the Taliban are a much more savage group ...

So 5 kids died here unfortunately yes.

But if they weren't there you might find 5 kids die every day, and many more atrocities like rape and other such things...after all, soldiers in large camps like the Taliban will desire to go with woman and young men and kids and won't have anybody to defend them!

[Frank Merton]

I don't defend the Taliban, and very much want to see them defeated, but be realistic. They are blue-nosed male chauvinists, not pedophiles and rapists.

[Irrelevant]

I don't defend the Taliban, and very much want to see them defeated, but be realistic. They are blue-nosed male chauvinists, not pedophiles and rapists.

Frank, the truth on all this is to sickening for the populace. However the fact that a afgan security force and Govt exist at all really is all that needs to be said to answer the OP.

[Gary Meadows]

You ask:

why there there

I've told you, besiegement

Do you think the military is a flower power movement that's going to walk in there and start giving to the Taliban carnation gift baskets?

This is a generational shift, the landscape and world has changed in this last 10 or so years..the instigators of this war proposed this at the beginning if you remember..

If you think this only started 10 years ago, you really don't know much of what is happening.

[Nefer-Ankhe]

So 5 kids died here unfortunately yes.

But if they weren't there you might find 5 kids die every day

...oh well, that makes it all that bit better, for them to have killed 5 innocent children, whilst they are supposedly meant to be protecting them?

Edited April 26, 2013 by Nefer-Ankhe

[SHaYap]

...oh well, that makes it all that bit better, for them to have killed 5 innocent children, whilst they are supposedly meant to be protecting them?

look in the mirror when you say that ..... it's moment like this I swear there is no hope of any proper future for the human population, that such words can form in the minds of people trying to justify murder as goodness by threats and distinguishing ones importance due solely to a self proclaimed faith of promises/covenants with some supreme divinity.

[Nefer-Ankhe]

look in the mirror when you say that ..... it's moment like this I swear there is no hope of any proper future for the human population, that such words can form in the minds of people trying to justify murder as goodness by threats and distinguishing ones importance due solely to a self proclaimed faith of promises/covenants with some supreme divinity.

Whom is that directed at? I hope you do realize that, that was sarcasm, in response to Irrelevant's apathetic post?

[SHaYap]

(1) Whom is that directed at?

(2) I hope you do realize that, that was sarcasm, in response to Irrelevant's apathetic post?

Not you ... I know ... no worries

but I do suggest saying that in front of a mirror ... I calls it a singular moment of clarity

It makes the point more poignant ... I never know how they can keep a straight face.

I am a practitioner of sarcasm around here myself,

nice to make your acquaintance,

really ... I mean it ... its true ....

[Agent0range]

Have you ever seen a little girl who's face was disfigured because someone threw acid on her for going to school? How about a woman who's nose was cut off because her husband accused her of not being a virgin on their wedding night? The things that Afghans (especially women) have had to deal with for the past 15 years is absolutely disgusting. So am I ok with a few civilians dying? Yup. I agree that democracy is not right for all countries, but basic human rights should be exercised by all. I spent over 18 months total in Afghanistan, so I am not just making assumptions...

[Frank Merton]

I don't get this business men have with the virginity of their wives; indeed, I can't think of a wedding I've been to lately where it wasn't common knowledge that the bride was already pregnant by the boy she was marrying. Usually young couples take precautions; still, they want to check certain things out before marriage nowadays. Also, there is no better way to overcome parental problems than to get pregnant (just whisper whether it's a boy or a girl and ask for advice on a name). If you really are paranoid and selfish, there are blood tests.

[Nefer-Ankhe]

Have you ever seen a little girl who's face was disfigured because someone threw acid on her for going to school? How about a woman who's nose was cut off because her husband accused her of not being a virgin on their wedding night? The things that Afghans (especially women) have had to deal with for the past 15 years is absolutely disgusting. So am I ok with a few civilians dying? Yup. I agree that democracy is not right for all countries, but basic human rights should be exercised by all. I spent over 18 months total in Afghanistan, so I am not just making assumptions...

...and still continues and still will continue, with or without these countries interfering or getting involved. It's ultimately just stirring up more tension within these countries and having more innocent civilians lives lost and injured, what for, the result of little change?

It's not just a "few" civilians lives lost, it's thousands, each and every single year, to the point where it has now reached the death toll of tens of thousands. So perhaps you could re-word that better or just not word that at all?

[lightly]

Good question. The overriding reason given for invading Afghanistan was that they were harboring bin laden . Where ? In any case, do you occupy a country to find one guy?

Why didn't we occupy Pakistan when it was learned he really was being Harbored there?

HOGWASH

[SHaYap]

The Taliban was made that way when they were fighting the Soviets ... then they were 'freedom warriors'

Then they were friends of the 'America' ... then they got screwed

[Nefer-Ankhe]

Isn't America trying to get to Israel via Afghanistan?

[SHaYap]

Israel needs water more than anything else ... something money and the death dealers can't guarantee with compromise .....

Water is considered as a national resource of utmost importance. Water is vital to ensure the population's well-being and quality of life and to preserve the rural-agricultural sector. Israel has suffered from a chronic water shortage for years. In recent years however, the situation has developed into a crisis so severe that it is feared that by the next summer it may be difficult to adequately supply municipal and household water requirements. The current cumulative deficit in Israel's renewable water resources amounts to approximately 2 billion cubic meters, an amount equal to the annual consumption of the State. The deficit has also lead to the qualitative deterioration of potable aquifer water resources that have, in part, become either of brackish quality or otherwise become polluted.

link to :

Israel's Chronic Water Problem

here

[keithisco]

They should build more de-salination plants. In my home province (Alicante, Spain - med Coast) investment in de-salination plants has made a huge contribution : 24 Cubic Hectometres of fresh water being produced annually from the latest plant, sufficient to maintain supplies to 475,000 residents. Water is no longer extracted from subterranean aquifers (allowing them to replenish), and the quality of my tap - water is better than most bottled waters.

Water really should not be an issue for litoral Nations.

[libstaK]

Have you ever seen a little girl who's face was disfigured because someone threw acid on her for going to school? How about a woman who's nose was cut off because her husband accused her of not being a virgin on their wedding night? The things that Afghans (especially women) have had to deal with for the past 15 years is absolutely disgusting. So am I ok with a few civilians dying? Yup. I agree that democracy is not right for all countries, but basic human rights should be exercised by all. I spent over 18 months total in Afghanistan, so I am not just making assumptions...

This is the kind of thing I hear from people who have actually been there, over and over again. It's important as it is a departure from what soldiers think of most wars they are sent to fight. This time around they actually feel invested in making a real change in the country and believe they should continue to do so.

I can't see how we can abandon Afghanistan after having come so far, they are at a crossroads. Girls are returning to school in droves, there are shelters and some efforts at legal recourse for women who have been abused. The government is holding on and stabilising with a moderate (by comparison to the previous Taliban) agenda.

As has been said, schools, hospitals and infrastructure are being rebuilt and more of the populace have chosen peace and acceptance of the new paradigm than ever before. The Taliban are still there though, waiting in the wings, hoping to out wait the efforts of the west to bring a stable and peaceful government to the country.

If we leave now, the fall back into Taliban like radicalism will be swift amongst the celebrations at our departure alone - though many more than ever will mourn and wonder why they were given hope and then abandoned at the 11th hour, yet again - we have been very good at that, raising false hope and turning our backs, not this time I hope.

[AlnilamPhiSiriusly]

http://walt.foreignp..._in_Afghanistan

Civilian Casualties:

2001-2003.

Between 3,100 and 3,600 civilians were directly killed by the U.S Operation Enduring Freedom bombing and Special Forces attacks between Oct. 7 2001 and Jun. 3 2003. This however only accounts for the "impact deaths"- deaths in the immediate aftermath of an explosion or shooting- and does not count deaths that occurred later as a result of injuries sustained, or deaths that occurred as an indirect consequence of the U.S. airstrikes and invasion.

2005.

An estimated 1,700 people were killed, including civilians, insurgents and security forces members.

2006.

4,400 Afghans had been killed in 2006, more than 1,000 of them were civilians.

2007.

More than 7,700 people were killed in 2007, including: 1,019 Afghan policemen;4,478 militants; 1,980 civiliansand 232 foreign soldiers.

By this stage it is conclusive that between 5,700 and 6,500 Afghan civilians had been killed so far in war by American and NATO military forces.

2008

reported that 2,118 civilians were killed as a result of armed conflict in Afghanistan in 2008, the highest civilian death toll since the end of the initial 2001 invasion. This represents an increase of about 40 percent over UNAMA's figure of 1,523 civilians killed in 2007.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2008 alone ---> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2008)

2009

2009 was again the most lethal year for Afghan civilians in the American-led war since the fall of the Taliban government in late 2001. , 2,412 civilians were killed by the war in 2009, a jump of 14% over the number that lost their lives in 2008. An additional 3,566 Afghan civilians were wounded as a result of the war in 2009.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2009 alone ---> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2009)

2010

2,777 Afghan civilians were killed in the war in 2010, a jump of 15% over the civilian toll in 2009.Of these, UNAMA/AIHRC attributed 2,080 civilian deaths.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2009 alone ---> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2010)

2011

1,462 Afghan civilians were killed in the first six months of 2011, another 15% jump over the same period in 2010.UNAMA/AIHRC attributed 1,167 (79.8%) of those deaths. For the whole year of 2011, the United Nations reported that the civilian death toll numbered 3,021, a record high. In addition, 4,507 Afghans were wounded.

For more information on civilian casualties in 2010 alone ----> http://en.wikipedia....ghanistan_(2011)

2012

---> List of civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan (2012)

2013

---> List of civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan (2013)

Now all this leaves me to ask, what are we really doing in Afghanistan?

Wikipedia says...

'It is believed that among other things Afghanistan holds $3 trillion in untapped mineral deposits.

Mining in Afghanistan is controlled by the Ministry of Mines and Industry, which is headquartered in Kabul with regional offices in other parts of the country. Afghanistan has over 1400 mineral fields, containing barite, chromite, coal, copper, gold, iron ore, lead, natural gas, petroleum, precious and semiprecious stones, salt, sulfur, talc, zinc among many other minerals. Gemstones include high-quality emerald, lapis lazuli, red garnet and ruby. There are six lapis mines, the largest being located in Badakhshan province - and around 12 copper mines, including the Aynak copper deposit located in Logar province.

Afghanistan's significance from an energy standpoint stems from its geographical position as a potential transit route for oil and natural gas exports from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea. This potential includes the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline gas pipeline. The first Afghan oil production began in October 2012'

http://en.wikipedia...._in_Afghanistan

[psyche101]

...oh well, that makes it all that bit better, for them to have killed 5 innocent children, whilst they are supposedly meant to be protecting them?

Do you think those soldiers are not aware of that? How would it be having to live with knowing that having to do your job that innocent people might die? How would it be living with it? I do not envy those men for one second. They have it bad enough as it is without people dumping on them who would not have the foggiest as to what they have to go through each day. Ever met any one who has returned from the middle east? I have.

[luckyguy]

Recent mineral discoveries will guarantee that we'll be in Afghanistan for a wile.But initially our interest was the same as that of the Soviets.

There are massive oil and natural gas and oil reserves in the adjacent corner of the old Soviet Union.The problem is that the area is landlocked with no easy way to transport it to refineries.

When the USSR fell those reserves ended up in the hands of European and American oil companies. Who went to great lengths to try toget the Taliban to allow them to build pipelines.

It's kind of a funny coincidence that the chief lobbyist for the oil companies was the same guy G.W.Bush propped up as their interim president.

You'd almost think he had the best interests of the oil companies in mind.