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pantodragon

Bullying and how to deal with it.

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Almost every person in this world is either a bully or a victim of bullying. The victims do not always realise that they ARE being bullied since bullies nowadays usually wear some disguise of respectability and couch their activities in terms that make them seem benign.

The internet is the latest place where the bullies have found a home. They have moved into every forum and terrorise the members as surely as any gun-totting gang in the Wild West terrorised the town they had ‘taken over’. This forum is no exception.

One of my purposes in joining this forum was to get them to reveal themselves, and they have done so ‘magnificently’. No-one who has been reading my posts can have failed to notice that (though they have quietened down of late) they have ganged up against me and have been using all sorts of tactics to shut me up or make me conform to their opinions. This is what I had hoped for. Thank you, boys.

This situation need not continue. If there are those of you out there who are too frightened to have your say, or who have been intimidated into adopting the ‘party line’, then I hope I can show you how to deal with, and deflate, these bullies. It really is not difficult, not once you get past the bluff and see them for what they are: ineffectual, dysfunctional, spineless babies!

I started to learn to deal with them when I leaned to deal with my older brother, who teased and tormented me rotten, at the age of about 5. My mother insisted that I should look after myself. All the help she would give me was to say, “It’s your own fault; if you didn’t react he wouldn’t do it.” So the first lesson was to not react, and that set me on a road that has led me to be well able to look after myself. Since then I have withstood far bigger fish than my brother.

The main thing though is this: if you allow yourself to be victimised by bullies you live a life of fear, and your world becomes smaller because of all the places you dare not go. If you learn to deal with bullies you lose your fear and your world opens up and you can do all sorts of things and go all sorts of places that you couldn’t before. It is wonderfully liberating! You can also become a ‘hero’ and show other people, by example, how to do it. When you do that I can tell you, again speaking from experience, that you do get admired and treated like a ‘hero’.

First off it helps to know what bullies are getting: they are on POWER. They are getting off on being able to control people. In term of these forums, they are getting off on being able to control who can and cannot speak and what they can or cannot say. And they rely on intimidation to do this, so will belittle, ridicule, try to pull rank, and use all the tricks they can think of. On the internet they can google you --- oh how the boys love google; they have learned to use it as a weapon --- and try and find some ‘evidence’ against you.

Usually, in my experience, when they first find that one will not be immediately cowed, they resort to calling one a ‘troll’. When that fails, they ‘do the google’. When that fails they call in the site moderators (assuming they are not, themselves, the site moderators, which they frequently are) and try to get one banned on a technicality. When that fails they just go on maintaining a constant stream of ‘name calling’, ridiculing, criticising (which, in spite of the ‘authoritative’ tone of voice, is empty, invalid, nothing more than trickery.), ganging up against one, and using all the assorted tried and tested means by which bullies have thrived throughout history.

The first thing to realise is that they are not as dangerous as they seem. It is all bluff. Their games actually have such a detrimental effect on their own minds that they end up being no real threat to anyone. They become mentally deformed, and the deformed are no match for the healthy.

It makes me think of the film Lord of the Rings. The bad guys are the orcs. When Gondor is under threat in the final film of the trilogy, it is faced by a vast army of orcs, and they are foul looking and frightening. Gondor did not deal with that army in the right way. All they really needed to do was to shut their gates tight and then toss a load of treasure into the orc army. The orcs would turn on each other until, after a while, there would be no orc army left, just a few survivors who would be making off with the loot! But, also, in reality, those deformed creatures could never be any match for the lithe and healthy elf, Legolas. Deformity throws a person off balance, makes them have to move awkwardly, often means they cannot see well, and that means that they can be no threat to a healthy individual.

Bullies are orcs. Because of what they do, the games they play, they become mental orcs, their minds deformed and dysfunctional.

To remain healthy simply means to be true to yourself.

So, the first step to dealing with bullies is this: TRUTH and TIME. Speak your truth, say what you really believe and think, and in time you will gain the upper hand. It is as simple as that.

The first time you say what you think, you will get attacked one way or another. Often the first attack takes the form of what is supposed to be ‘helpful’ criticism. If it hurts, or humiliates, or feels in any way bad, then it is NOT HELPFUL, and, what is more, IS NOT INTENDED TO BE. Helpful criticism never feels bad.

This whole idea of criticism rests on the idea that people need to be corrected in order to learn. This is not so. ‘Thinking’ and ‘learning’ are skills that get better with practice. That is all. Practice makes perfect. Plenty of people learn to play musical instruments without being taught by anyone. They just get on with it, and every time they play the instrument they get a little better. It is the same with ‘thinking’ and ‘learning’.

In the case of thinking and learning you practice by taking part in free and open discussions. If you say what you really think, and everyone else says what they really think, and you all have different beliefs and opinions, then a lot of thinking gets done. When other people express ideas that are very different from your own, it ‘makes you think’. But also the need to put your own thoughts and ideas into words ‘makes you think’. So in this environment, where there is NO CRITICISM, everyone’s thinking and learning skills are always growing and developing. So you no more need someone else to tell you what or how to think than you need someone to show you how to play a piano; you just need the freedom to develop your own thinking skills.

Returning to the first time you speak out: you will in all likelihood get criticised, and that will hurt one way or another. Your reaction should be this: “I don’t care.” Just ignore all comments that hurt or make you feel bad in any way. In fact, you do not need to reply to any comments at all if you do not want to. The important thing is to TAKE PRIDE in the fact that you have been courageous enough to speak out. Even if it is only once. Think of the old David Bowie song: Heroes. “We can be heroes just for one day.”

Taking pride in yourself, respecting yourself, is important to being able to continue, and is very important to maintaining your integrity and being ‘true to yourself’. If you do chose to continue, then every time you speak out the hurt of the bad comments gets less. In time they will not hurt at all.

And if you do continue your thinking and learning skills will develop and grow. Before long you will easily outmatch your would-be tormentors. You will then be able to progress from ignoring them to engaging in argument. You will then be able to move into higher levels of mental abilities. This is sort of like a mental form of martial arts. You get to be very mentally AGILE, and WELL ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. And again you have to think of ‘practice makes perfect’. In other words, you do not have to ‘learn the moves’. Just practice and you will develop your own moves. Having your own moves is better than learning ‘standard’ moves because no-one can anticipate what you will do!

All this will VASTLY improve your self-confidence and that will have loads of benefits off the internet as well as on. At the very least you will be able to talk freely to other people no matter who, no matter where. You will not feel intimidated by your boss, or by any other ‘authority figure’.

Once you have learned to ‘stand your ground’ with confidence, to be able to engage freely in argument, there is still further you can go.

In my post ‘Toward a better world’ I stated that one of my ambitions was to graduate from ‘half-wit’ to ‘complete idiot’. I was not being silly. This is a serious ambition. The idea behind it is best elucidated by the example I gave, the film ‘The Man Who Knew Too Little.’ It seems to be a contradiction that one can be a superlative thinker and learner and a ‘complete idiot’. It is not. In fact it is a very advanced state, but to explain how it works is beyond the scope of this post, so I will just leave it as something for people to meditate upon.

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The last part of your post is a variation on 'The Way Of The Fool'...a method by which you open yourself up to ridicule in order to gain better insights...or I should say, leave yourself open, and without coverings that protect you. Hence the symbol of The Fool was the joker as seen in a pack of playing cards...(the court jester)..robes are open either end leaving the person exposed and open for ridicule, with a dog in tow and some belongings thrown over their shoulder...the image always showed the joker walking though, walking through life gaining knowledge.

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The last part of your post is a variation on 'The Way Of The Fool'...a method by which you open yourself up to ridicule in order to gain better insights...or I should say, leave yourself open, and without coverings that protect you. Hence the symbol of The Fool was the joker as seen in a pack of playing cards...(the court jester)..robes are open either end leaving the person exposed and open for ridicule, with a dog in tow and some belongings thrown over their shoulder...the image always showed the joker walking though, walking through life gaining knowledge.

I like this, but it is not what I mean. It's more of a general "state of mind" that allows one to go about the world unhindered and being friends with every one and every thing. It is not primarily about gaining insight, though that does come as a side effect. It is also a way of protecting oneself from "bad vibes". For example, the idiot may receive an insult but act as though it is a clever, harmless joke. The insulter will often then be flattered to be seen as so clever. The result then is that the insulter stops insulting in favour of being witty. That's just a brief taste of the bigger world of the complete idiot.

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I like this, but it is not what I mean. It's more of a general "state of mind" that allows one to go about the world unhindered and being friends with every one and every thing. It is not primarily about gaining insight, though that does come as a side effect. It is also a way of protecting oneself from "bad vibes". For example, the idiot may receive an insult but act as though it is a clever, harmless joke. The insulter will often then be flattered to be seen as so clever. The result then is that the insulter stops insulting in favour of being witty. That's just a brief taste of the bigger world of the complete idiot.

I have a 16yr old niece, who was bullied a lot, never said her opinion on anything, very timid. Through her parents and the school they went through many methods of giving her ways to stand up to them, in what to say, and how to reply..her life became an endless game of constantly being on her guard, constantly thinking of what to say in this situation and that situation. She came to stay with us for a week just before xmas last yr, and I took a bit of a risk but told that what she had been told previously was rubbish, and would never work. I gave her a copy of Roosevelts "man in the arena" quote...told her keep reading it...then when we would do something or a situation arose with someone who has a forthright vibe (bullying vibe even), i'd just give her a nudge and remind her of the quote...she got it in the end....her vibe and demeanor has changed now, she doesn't need to reply to bullies, or change the way they think, she just needs to answer to herself...

Different strokes work for different folks....also, the sensitive nature of a person can take something as bullying when it isn't intended that way, you can't know the intention behind every comment because you can't know how every person came to that thought to begin with.

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I think this is just one side of the coin, and I'm not sure how you'll react but it's your problem too if you take everything people say as an insult to you. One thing is the label "me", the label of ideas you attach to the picture of what you are. One such label for example would be me having a moustache and attaching it to an idea that I'm a moustache-guy, it's my way of life. But it's just hair growing under my nose, I can shave it off. Our views of things change in similiar fashion, our views of ourselves can change too. Some people might not change, develop nor evolve their views of themselves, views like that example but more mental, like "I'm a more shy person" or "I have a good insight on when people feel certain way". Some of these might be more or less true, but you dont need to confine yourself to these, because they're momentual states which can be broken or reduced, as well as taken to different heights.

The short of what I'm trying to say is, you dont have to take being open and vulnerable as a weakness, it's very normal to not be perfect. It doesn't have to be interpreted as "something's wrong with me, I'm a bad person", no. It's called room for development. We all have that. It's just easier to project our weaknesses to others like those who you speak in your text do. One thing about martial arts is, whether it's mental or physical, is that anyone can be taken down no matter how much a master you become. That why it's healthy to realise that you can get back up too.

But I wholeheartedly sign your idea about not telling others what to think. But you can also misinterpret a lot of what others say, it's more common than you might think, and people do try to improve things in some way even when they're being "bad" about it, like yelling to someone about doing this and that in order to wake something inside them up, maybe wake an inner rebel up. It's just a more twisted form of improving things as you say, "orcs". And conditioning never works as well as free thinking, because as you say again, free thinking results in being more flexible. This also applies to physical and mental martial arts alike.

Your posts are still as long as ever for a short-reader but better. Just one thing... you dont really need to demonize anyone here or anywhere, why you do that? Those people who bully you are people too, you underestimate them. It's no problem if you dont see the whole picture, but it can become a bigger downfall the more you insist you do when you dont.

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. Just one thing... you dont really need to demonize anyone here or anywhere, why you do that?

I do not demonise them; power demonises them. I do this as much, or more, for their sakes as for anyone else's. As I've said elsewhere, they do more damage to their own minds than they do to other people --- as I've shown, one can learn to deal with bullies very easily. That is not the problem. The problem, as I said, is the damage bullies are doing to themselves. If everyone learns to deal with bullies, then bullies will have no one to bully and will therefore have to quit the habit. This will be good for them. Also, healthy behaviour is communicable.

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...The internet is the latest place where the bullies have found a home. They have moved into every forum and terrorise the members as surely as any gun-totting gang in the Wild West terrorised the town they had ‘taken over’. This forum is no exception.

One of my purposes in joining this forum was to get them to reveal themselves, and they have done so ‘magnificently’. No-one who has been reading my posts can have failed to notice that (though they have quietened down of late) they have ganged up against me and have been using all sorts of tactics to shut me up or make me conform to their opinions. This is what I had hoped for. Thank you, boys....

Did you ever consider it's not 'bullying' that's the problem here, but rather that others just don't agree with your personal opinions?

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Do you not realize that you yourself are a verbal bully? That you engage in minimal discussion, and spend a lot of time calling people wrong, dismissing their opinions as if they were of no consequence, justifying your own opinions, and denigrating people? There are some lovely, smart people on this forum whom you dismiss because their opinions differ from yours. Lack of respect for others is a key component of bullying, I suggest you examine your own behaviors in this area.

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I do not demonise them; power demonises them. I do this as much, or more, for their sakes as for anyone else's. As I've said elsewhere, they do more damage to their own minds than they do to other people --- as I've shown, one can learn to deal with bullies very easily. That is not the problem. The problem, as I said, is the damage bullies are doing to themselves. If everyone learns to deal with bullies, then bullies will have no one to bully and will therefore have to quit the habit. This will be good for them. Also, healthy behaviour is communicable.

*bolding mine

That is so wrong on so many levels...bullying is one of the most destructive things you can do to a person, simply because it takes little effort, no physical contact, and little thought needs to go into it, yet it can wreck a persons life completely, it can stop them fulfilling their potential, living in fear all the time, they can become subservient to others throughout their life because bullying has taken their ability to see themselves as equal to everyone else. They live a shadow of a life, and everything they do and every decision they make is based around this low opinion they then have of themselves.

If you think the damage a bully does to their own mind is more of a problem then the damage they do to others then i'm afraid you know next to nothing about the impact of bullying.

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Posted (edited)

Im not sure what to say to this, I feel like if I disagree I am now the bully, now there is pressure to choose my words carefully.. It's because you have created a closed system of thought here. You should be very careful to note the difference between criticism and cynicism.

Parts of what you said, I agree with wholeheartedly. It's true learning to stand your ground does bolster you against attack, manipulation, and intimidation. But you must be able to do it with real backing. Think of our brothers the tae kwon mc dojos. They may have improper training to hold their ground.

Without the willingness to take criticism ( not cynicism) and gleam from it what is useful, you end up in your own little world... Which is not a place for growth of anything.

There is already a method for debate and formal discussion that is supposed to eliminate emotional attacks and fallacies that don't really belong in intelligent discussion. It has it's issues, but if 2 parties are following the same set of rules respect is built into it. I suggest you do some study on formal logic then look back upon your own postings and identify the fallacies in your own arguments. You might be apalled at what you find. Self reflection is a b****, but I know you are a fighter, and you will walk away with a few more tools under your belt. I promise.

Edited by Seeker79

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There is 'bullying' and being 'bullied' but there are also people who 'play the victim' all are easy catorgories to fall prey to.

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Posted (edited)

Almost every person in this world is either a bully or a victim of bullying. The victims do not always realise that they ARE being bullied since bullies nowadays usually wear some disguise of respectability and couch their activities in terms that make them seem benign.

Its usually your parents who determine if you'll be a target for bullies in life -

( A ) Over-protective parents stop their children learning how to deal with difficult and abusive people. As such they dont know how to standup for themselves or how to get someone told. The bully targets them because they dont do anything about it.

( B ) Abusive parents give their kid the wrong idea about whats normal. A child has nothing else to compare with its quality of parenting received so they grow up thinking being abusive is normal. They get bullied for their attitude towards others which is often bullying itself.

( C ) Perfectionist parents teach their kid strong morals and ethics. While molding their youngster into a perfect citizen seems like a good idea unfortunately the kid will avoid treating others badly when it should be doing (eye for an eye). The kid will get beaten up a lot when the bully realises they wont hit back.

To prevent these its vital parents are positive and supportive towards their child, dont give it any blocks preventing it dealing with bullies effectively and most importantly let the child learn how to deal with them itself. Some less common forms of bullying are as follows -

( D ) People with personality disorders cant regulate their thoughts when they encounter people which undermine their egos. They are easily spotted because they have to be the best at everything, are possessive, have to be the centre of attention, will fabricate their own achievements and will fabricate things wrong with other people. They target those who dont provide them with narcissist supply (those who refuse to play along with it) and those who are more perfect than them (better looking, more intelligent, more confident, more successful, etc).

( E ) People with personality disorders attempt to 'divide and conquer' to get somewhere in life. They will isolate those perceived as better than them in the eyes of others. This is achieved by bad mouthing about them and by doing it in such a way that it isnt questioned. They make everybody hate you and as a result they start bullying you.

To solve ( D ) you have to destroy the narcissist because nothing else will work. Figure out whats a sore point for them by watching who they target (looks, intelligence, weight, popularity, confidence, etc). Lets take looks as the example. Whenever they are next to someone more attractive be it a manager or work colleague openly point it out. They will quickly self destruct and turn others against them.

To solve ( E ) treat other people nicely and never let people hear you being negative about others. In addition bringing in a tin of roses every once in a while and letting everyone have one makes you liked. As a result they wont believe any bad mouthing about you.

If theres any other types of bullying you want to know how to resolve please ask.

Edited by Giant Killer B

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Posted (edited)

Its usually your parents who determine if you'll be a target for bullies in life -

( A ) Over-protective parents stop their children learning how to deal with difficult and abusive people. As such they dont know how to standup for themselves or how to get someone told. The bully targets them because they dont do anything about it.

( B ) Abusive parents give their kid the wrong idea about whats normal. A child has nothing else to compare with its quality of parenting received so they grow up thinking being abusive is normal. They get bullied for their attitude towards others which is often bullying itself.

( C ) Perfectionist parents teach their kid strong morals and ethics. While molding their youngster into a perfect citizen seems like a good idea unfortunately the kid will avoid treating others badly when it should be doing (eye for an eye). The kid will get beaten up a lot when the bully realises they wont hit back.

To prevent these its vital parents are positive and supportive towards their child, dont give it any blocks preventing it dealing with bullies effectively and most importantly let the child learn how to deal with them itself. Some less common forms of bullying are as follows -

( D ) People with personality disorders cant regulate their thoughts when they encounter people which undermine their egos. They are easily spotted because they have to be the best at everything, are possessive, have to be the centre of attention, will fabricate their own achievements and will fabricate things wrong with other people. They target those who dont provide them with narcissist supply (those who refuse to play along with it) and those who are more perfect than them (better looking, more intelligent, more confident, more successful, etc).

( E ) People with personality disorders attempt to 'divide and conquer' to get somewhere in life. They will isolate those perceived as better than them in the eyes of others. This is achieved by bad mouthing about them and by doing it in such a way that it isnt questioned. They make everybody hate you and as a result they start bullying you.

To solve ( D ) you have to destroy the narcissist because nothing else will work. Figure out whats a sore point for them by watching who they target (looks, intelligence, weight, popularity, confidence, etc). Lets take looks as the example. Whenever they are next to someone more attractive be it a manager or work colleague openly point it out. They will quickly self destruct and turn others against them.

To solve ( E ) treat other people nicely and never let people hear you being negative about others. In addition bringing in a tin of roses every once in a while and letting everyone have one makes you liked. As a result they wont believe any bad mouthing about you.

If theres any other types of bullying you want to know how to resolve please ask.

This is very cogent. Thank you. I especially like E, as it brings people together instead of creating division. I don't know if it automatically creates liking, but it does create trust & respect.

Edited by Beany
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Im not sure what to say to this, I feel like if I disagree I am now the bully, now there is pressure to choose my words carefully.. It's because you have created a closed system of thought here. You should be very careful to note the difference between criticism and cynicism.

Parts of what you said, I agree with wholeheartedly. It's true learning to stand your ground does bolster you against attack, manipulation, and intimidation. But you must be able to do it with real backing. Think of our brothers the tae kwon mc dojos. They may have improper training to hold their ground.

Without the willingness to take criticism ( not cynicism) and gleam from it what is useful, you end up in your own little world... Which is not a place for growth of anything.

There is already a method for debate and formal discussion that is supposed to eliminate emotional attacks and fallacies that don't really belong in intelligent discussion. It has it's issues, but if 2 parties are following the same set of rules respect is built into it. I suggest you do some study on formal logic then look back upon your own postings and identify the fallacies in your own arguments. You might be apalled at what you find. Self reflection is a b****, but I know you are a fighter, and you will walk away with a few more tools under your belt. I promise.

Hey, Seeker, we know you're not a bully, as evidenced by your thoughtful posts and your desire to be fair.

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Did you ever consider it's not 'bullying' that's the problem here, but rather that others just don't agree with your personal opinions?

Bullying "smells" different from well intentioned criticism or the offering of alternative views. If you read the comments on my threads it is perfectly clear that many of them, or even most of them, are intended to harm. If you cannot smell the difference yourself, then that suggests you too are a bully.

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(1) To solve ( D ) you have to destroy the narcissist because nothing else will work. Figure out whats a sore point for them by watching who they target (looks, intelligence, weight, popularity, confidence, etc). Lets take looks as the example. Whenever they are next to someone more attractive be it a manager or work colleague openly point it out. They will quickly self destruct and turn others against them.

(2) To solve ( E ) treat other people nicely and never let people hear you being negative about others. In addition bringing in a tin of roses every once in a while and letting everyone have one makes you liked. As a result they wont believe any bad mouthing about you.

(1) What an appalling bully this reveals you to be! You never, ever destroy anyone. I have described ways of dealing with bullying, but none of them resort to bullying. In fact, they ALL turn things around and offer positive ways forward for everyone, they allow everyone to walk away with their pride and self-respect intact. I repeat, THIS TACTIC IS STAGGERINGLY BRUTAL, and anyone on this forum who was nodding as they read this, can know, if they did not before, that they are a bully.

(2) Have you no self-respect? To BUY favour!!!!! Offering roses to all and sundry to get them to like you??? That is just SO low. And the thing is, that that kind of crawling does not buy you what you are looking for. People will laugh at you behind your back and take a loan of you. The last thing they will do is actually respect you.

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Bullying "smells" different from well intentioned criticism or the offering of alternative views. If you read the comments on my threads it is perfectly clear that many of them, or even most of them, are intended to harm. If you cannot smell the difference yourself, then that suggests you too are a bully.

May I suggest you start a personal blog rather than create further threads of this nature, if you are going to take offense and brand anyone who disagrees with your thoughts on these subjects as 'bullies' then it simply isn't going to be possible to hold a constructive discussion.

Closed.

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