Ancient Canal Builders

[foghum]

I have been noticing the - nearly ubiquitous - straight lines in the marshes all up and down the east coast for a while - as I'll confess, I am a google maps addict. It has taken my fondness and collecting (wife will say hording) of maps to a whole new level.

I was always told they were mosquito control ditches aimed at draining the marshes to prevent mosquito breeding. It seemed reasonable.

Then I heard this guy John Jensen talking about these giant canals that go for hundreds of miles down in Louisiana. He started a website called ancient canal builders dot com.

He also talks about up the east coast too - places he's noticed are not quite typical - very straight, criss-crossing, and parallel lines. He's encouraging any who's interested to help verify who made them and when. You can view satellite imagery from all up and down the east coast and up through the gulf of mexico, basically everywhere you look you can see these structures.

Does any one else have any information on these formations? Could this be archaeological evidence of the massive population of the native Americans living in that area prior to European colonization? Or could they be older? One of Jensen's arguments is that some appear to go under water at certain intervals and pop back up miles later in exact alignment.

[The_Spartan]

Sorry to inform you that the canals that John Jensen is theorizing as being built by ancient folks are just canals built/dredged by The Army Corps of Engineers.

If you want to know about real ancient canals built by real ancient folks, try the Hohokam canals.

[foghum]

Sorry to inform you that the canals that John Jensen is theorizing as being built by ancient folks are just canals built/dredged by The Army Corps of Engineers.

The_Spartan - do you have any evidence to prove that assertion?

[foghum]

I am also interested in the shell mounds and canals up and down FL's east coast. You can see typical ones not even a mile west of Turtle Mound south of New Smyrna Beach.

(28.92843,-80.840449)

Some are beautifully designed like the ones farther south near Cape Canaveral (28.715017,-80.692348).

I wonder - if these are relics of the native peoples of the area - have they ever been cataloged or mapped?

[stereologist]

Not sure what you are looking at on the maps, but are you looking at portions of the intracoastal waterway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intracoastal_Waterway

Since these 1824 acts, the United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) has had responsibility for navigation waterway improvements and maintenance.

[The_Spartan]

The Canals John Jensen state as ancient, as per his website Ancientcanalbuilders.com were made in modern times.

The very image he puts on the homepage of his site is the one below

This is purely a Dredging canal. The Army Corps of Engineers maintains these canals and dredges them periodically to prevent them from silting up.

Similarly, the canals below are dredging canals too.

want evidence? read about it at Humans and the Louisiana Coastal Wetlands

and below is the Kissimmee Canal, which got silted up quite fast and is being de-silted as of present

What do you say about the canals shown in the pics below? are they ancient?

Another example of a dredging canal being claimed as ancient is this one below from the Mississippi Delta

If you really want to see how actual ancient Canals looks like, take a look

and read about them at this link

[Swede]

I am also interested in the shell mounds and canals up and down FL's east coast. You can see typical ones not even a mile west of Turtle Mound south of New Smyrna Beach.

(28.92843,-80.840449)

Some are beautifully designed like the ones farther south near Cape Canaveral (28.715017,-80.692348).

I wonder - if these are relics of the native peoples of the area - have they ever been cataloged or mapped?

Coordinates accurate?

However, at least for the most part, there is a good probability that the shell mounds (if they are such) have been mapped and documented. You may wish to consider contacting your states SHPO.

.

[foghum]

Thanks Spartan for that info. I believe for the majority you are correct!

Unfortunately we may never know what was there prior to all the damage tha'ts been inflicted on that region. Jensen will have a hard time finding evidence to support his hypothesis without excavation or finding some direct physical evidence of builders other than the modern gas companies and the USACE.

Anyway - I still find the smaller ones just as intriguing. If the coordinates above didn't work - here's some images:

This is the type that's been identified as most likely drainage ditches for mosquito control and marsh hay harvesting - Hampton Beach, NH

This is near New Smyrna Beach, FL - newer next to older?

This beautiful one is near Cape Canaveral farther south

[foghum]

Here is another interesting spot in the Assateague State Park.

I can't seem to figure out how to post those nice photos right in the reply so here's a link:

Assateague Mound? coordinates are +38° 9' 51.93", -75° 10' 27.73"

This "mound" looks atypical from the other barrier island formation around it (possible human influence?) with some drainage "ditches" around the perimeter.

It's obviously more fertile than most of the surrounding areas indicative of the mature tree growth that occurs there.

Once again - I'm not making a claim to any ancient lost civilizations here - merely speculating on remnants of previous habitation.

It is quite sad what has been lost and built over here on the east coast. There is very little remaining of the great societies that once inhabited area and they don't get much credit for their achievements.

[Pax Unum]

I thought this link might add to the discussion

Ancient-Calusa-Canal

[foghum]

Pax - right on! That's a great article.

Also I found another interesting spot in the area of the Canaveral Seashore - check it out at +28° 48' 32.68", -80° 45' 58.34"

There appears to be these "neighborhoods" and some bermed "seawalls" just to the north to create protected lagoons. The deeper part of the "moat" or canal surrounding the lagoon is on the inside of the seawall.

[John Jensen]

You would think that some of you would talk to the original discoverer before getting into your own pet theories about ancient canals on our coast.

Most of my work centers around artifacts that are situated on a secondary tidal shoulder, (that means they do NOT butt up to any current land). Most of what you are referencing is older research, and is no longer on my website. What IS on my website are major sunken harbors that are at least 2.5 miles out in the open ocean, with no connection to land whatsover.

The two that are absolute PROOF of an ancient civilization or culture that was here, and was overtaken or sunken 7,000 years ago is located on these two web pages: http:/ancientcanalbuilders.com/florida/1/index.html and http:/ancientcanalbuilders.com/florida/2/index.html.

Many of the sunken harbors and about 75 miles of channels in Long Island Sound are documented here: http://ancientcanalbuilders.com/NY/index.html and support the same depth (6' to 10' in depth and 7k years old.)

You can claim Corp of Engineers built anything. I have not been able to track down the projects and budgets. And I have been looking full time for 4 years. Your opinion is neither proven or disproven, but certainly is not more valid than mine. I have satellite images of canals on the surface of this planet that are 240,000 miles long, about a mile apart and each about 600 miles long in a straight line. If you can do math, you will recognize that area, (larger than the state of Texas) had something over 600 MILLION acres under cultivation. There HAD to have been a population in the Billions. to require that large a agricultural irrigation system. The area shown is located in South Africa in the NW corner of Botwsana on the Nambia border.

If you think the millions of stone circles on the east side of South Africa were for a few goat herders, you need to look at them in some detail as well. What this collective information is telling us is that we don't have the first clue about who we really are, how long we have been here, and how many civilizations came before us. I can PROVE technologically built large terre formed artifacts remain from some period in our early Holocene and late Pleistocene past. A large array of hominins lived on the earth, some giants in contact with other giant flora and fauna. Those are facts, supported by the geological column. There have been great cataclysms, some near extinction level events. There has been change in solar rotation (the mean distance between the earth and the sun), making the earth so hot at times that whole ice sheets melted in about 4,000 years. So called 'Gravity' changed over those cataclysm, getting denser with the largest land creatures going extinct. That probably or more likely than not included Giant hominins and DInosaurs. The Ice Melt Surge (based on heat index) changed 3 separate times between 15K and 7K years ago. Those are facts, not suppositions. Argue the facts, but don't make unprovable claims that you can't substantiate.

As a last note, I HAVE withdrawn most of the Louisiana delta canals for lack of proof of their ancient origins. And I have redacted the Florida land cuts from my website, and only retain the sunken harbors in FL and NY and Mexico. I am adding the So. Africa agri canals this week. You have the right to any opinion you choose, but if you are going to put it out as fact, you better have some credentials behind your name.

[stereologist]

You can claim Corp of Engineers built anything. I have not been able to track down the projects and budgets. And I have been looking full time for 4 years. Your opinion is neither proven or disproven, but certainly is not more valid than mine. I have satellite images of canals on the surface of this planet that are 240,000 miles long, about a mile apart and each about 600 miles long in a straight line. If you can do math, you will recognize that area, (larger than the state of Texas) had something over 600 MILLION acres under cultivation. There HAD to have been a population in the Billions. to require that large a agricultural irrigation system. The area shown is located in South Africa in the NW corner of Botwsana on the Nambia border.

If there was a population in the billions then they would certainly leave quite a bit of evidence behind. It seems that since there is no evidence of such a large population it is likely that your idea that 600 million acres was under cultivation is wrong. And if that is wrong then your idea there are these canals is also wrong.

[stereologist]

If you think the millions of stone circles on the east side of South Africa were for a few goat herders, you need to look at them in some detail as well. What this collective information is telling us is that we don't have the first clue about who we really are, how long we have been here, and how many civilizations came before us. I can PROVE technologically built large terre formed artifacts remain from some period in our early Holocene and late Pleistocene past. A large array of hominins lived on the earth, some giants in contact with other giant flora and fauna. Those are facts, supported by the geological column. There have been great cataclysms, some near extinction level events. There has been change in solar rotation (the mean distance between the earth and the sun), making the earth so hot at times that whole ice sheets melted in about 4,000 years. So called 'Gravity' changed over those cataclysm, getting denser with the largest land creatures going extinct. That probably or more likely than not included Giant hominins and DInosaurs. The Ice Melt Surge (based on heat index) changed 3 separate times between 15K and 7K years ago. Those are facts, not suppositions. Argue the facts, but don't make unprovable claims that you can't substantiate.

There is no evidence at all for a civilization 20,000 years ago or before.

There is no evidence for a race of giants.

There is no evidence that the mean distance between the Earth and Sun has done anything other than increase. That increase is small, but it is happening.

The evidence shows that gravity has not changed.

You say "Argue the facts, but don't make unprovable claims that you can't substantiate."

So let's see evidence for:

1. long gone civilizations

2. The Earth closer to the Sun

3. Gravity changed

4. Giants

and anything else you want to toss into the fray.

Edited October 21, 2013 by stereologist

[The_Spartan]

You would think that some of you would talk to the original discoverer before getting into your own pet theories about ancient canals on our coast.

Most of my work centers around artifacts that are situated on a secondary tidal shoulder, (that means they do NOT butt up to any current land). Most of what you are referencing is older research, and is no longer on my website. What IS on my website are major sunken harbors that are at least 2.5 miles out in the open ocean, with no connection to land whatsover.

The two that are absolute PROOF of an ancient civilization or culture that was here, and was overtaken or sunken 7,000 years ago is located on these two web pages: http:/ancientcanalbuilders.com/florida/1/index.html and http:/ancientcanalbuilders.com/florida/2/index.html.

Many of the sunken harbors and about 75 miles of channels in Long Island Sound are documented here: http://ancientcanalb...m/NY/index.html and support the same depth (6' to 10' in depth and 7k years old.)

You can claim Corp of Engineers built anything. I have not been able to track down the projects and budgets. And I have been looking full time for 4 years. Your opinion is neither proven or disproven, but certainly is not more valid than mine. I have satellite images of canals on the surface of this planet that are 240,000 miles long, about a mile apart and each about 600 miles long in a straight line. If you can do math, you will recognize that area, (larger than the state of Texas) had something over 600 MILLION acres under cultivation. There HAD to have been a population in the Billions. to require that large a agricultural irrigation system. The area shown is located in South Africa in the NW corner of Botwsana on the Nambia border.

If you think the millions of stone circles on the east side of South Africa were for a few goat herders, you need to look at them in some detail as well. What this collective information is telling us is that we don't have the first clue about who we really are, how long we have been here, and how many civilizations came before us. I can PROVE technologically built large terre formed artifacts remain from some period in our early Holocene and late Pleistocene past. A large array of hominins lived on the earth, some giants in contact with other giant flora and fauna. Those are facts, supported by the geological column. There have been great cataclysms, some near extinction level events. There has been change in solar rotation (the mean distance between the earth and the sun), making the earth so hot at times that whole ice sheets melted in about 4,000 years. So called 'Gravity' changed over those cataclysm, getting denser with the largest land creatures going extinct. That probably or more likely than not included Giant hominins and DInosaurs. The Ice Melt Surge (based on heat index) changed 3 separate times between 15K and 7K years ago. Those are facts, not suppositions. Argue the facts, but don't make unprovable claims that you can't substantiate.

As a last note, I HAVE withdrawn most of the Louisiana delta canals for lack of proof of their ancient origins. And I have redacted the Florida land cuts from my website, and only retain the sunken harbors in FL and NY and Mexico. I am adding the So. Africa agri canals this week. You have the right to any opinion you choose, but if you are going to put it out as fact, you better have some credentials behind your name.

Since "you" are the originator of this fancy theory, the onus is on you to prove your claims.

The evidence available points to The Army Corps of Engineers.

and mind it, they have records stretching back to a century.

put your theory against their records please.

[stereologist]

Wonder if there will be any attempt to support these odd claims?

[seaturtlehorsesnake]

i'll give this topic credit (though not the original author) for introducing me to the hohokam canals. hadn't heard of them, and i've just spent a very enjoyable hour or so reading up.

so thanks, the spartan

[+DieChecker]

Coordinates accurate?

However, at least for the most part, there is a good probability that the shell mounds (if they are such) have been mapped and documented. You may wish to consider contacting your states SHPO.

It says here that the shell mounds have all been identified and those that are left are preserved and many have previously been excavated. They seem to be well understood.

I tend to agree that all the canals pictured so far are Modern in nature. Since if they were even 100 years old, they would have silted up and weeded over to the extent that they would effectively be gone. There is a reason the Army Corp of Engineers have to go dredge the canals full time. Because otherwise they become unnavagable and then disappear.

Edited October 23, 2013 by DieChecker