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and then

Why the US Shouldn't Get Involved

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http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/redlines-and-problems-intervention-syria?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20130430&utm_term=Gweekly&utm_content=readmore&elq=d0a928b8d75c47aeab89035657aa53b6

StratFor is a think tank similar to a non governmental CIA. This is an excellent article on what intervention would, and would NOT accomplish.

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Probably it should not be the US, but I think anyone who is able to has a moral obligation to put a stop to this carnage. To me this means the Arabs and the Turks.

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I think we should just pull out of everywere. We help set up puppet dictators so that they will do what we say until we are done with them then we help set up a new puppet regime.

The dictator in egypt was a guy we helped put there. Now we helped the rebels who are openly part of al queda. Who we also do not like?

So lets just leave everyone alone for once.

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I use to be pro interviention. But the more stuff i keep finding out the past year the more i think we should mind our own business.

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Isolationism by any country doesn't work. Thinking one should just walk away and let them kill each other will not cause them to leave you alone, but in fact tends to do the opposite. Everyone everywhere needs to do as much as they possibly can, including the judicious use of force, to promote peace. As the militarily most powerful country on the planet, that often means the US. That is just the reality. If Vietnam were to be invaded by a power which shall remain nameless, guess, in spite of the history, who the Vietnamese would call on?

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Isolationism by any country doesn't work. Thinking one should just walk away and let them kill each other will not cause them to leave you alone, but in fact tends to do the opposite. Everyone everywhere needs to do as much as they possibly can, including the judicious use of force, to promote peace. As the militarily most powerful country on the planet, that often means the US. That is just the reality. If Vietnam were to be invaded by a power which shall remain nameless, guess, in spite of the history, who the Vietnamese would call on?

Thing is, Frank, that the days are ending when the US can afford to do that anymore. It has long been my contention that those who hate the US will miss it grievously when it isn't a power any longer. And all the accusations of corruption and illegality won't mean anything when the help a country desperately needs is no longer available from the one source where it so often was..... THEN the cry will be "where is America?"

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Nations need to plan and find friends and whatever. I suspect the US will always be there although the way it is going it seems to be in decline. I really doubt a country like Vietnam will ever need the US to bail it out; the point of my message was just that no one should think they can live in isolation from the rest of the world.

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Why not? It gets uninviting involved in every other war. Maybe there ain't enough oil to tickle their fancy.

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Posted (edited)

Whatever we do we should not simply send in arms. Arming others is never an accountable action. Those arms will be sold, traded, or appropriated to other parties and only serves to line the pockets of arms dealers at the price of long term stability.

Our options should be between boots on the ground or supporting a credible military force such as those from neighboring countries or a coalition force.

"And then" made a great point, specifically that the days of where we could afford to just drop in our own troops as a "go to" solution are coming to and end. Not that we cannot continue to intervene but we have to be strategic especially in regards to scope.

We are already making a mistake of funding the rebel militias to the tune of 3 billion (correct me if I am wrong; posting from the phone.)

As an aside I prefer FAS over Stratfor.

FAS's mission and academic approach will yield more accurate analysis.

http://www.fas.org/

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_American_Scientists

Edited by Leave Britney alone!
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Has anyone actually red that? Such lies... Media has reported US & EU involvement so far.. and Russians which didnt actually do anything but sent ships to gulf are being blamed all over... Chemical weapons being used by some parties of ressistance yes... not Assad... this page falls under "heavy" missleading source... you can take it for granted but i wont sorry...

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2013/04/26/EU-frets-over-risks-of-a-spillover-from-Syria/UPI-91281367010426/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215647/U-S-steps-involvement-Syria-crisis-American-troops-guard-border-Jordan.html

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/04/27/300612/us-training-syria-militants-in-jordan/

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2013/04/03/U-S-Jordan-boost-training-of-Syria-opposition-fighters-report.html

I've "heard" US & UK military or some other part of those is covertly arming and training certain parts of this ressistance... and now with Israel making those bombing runs, relations will degrade, worst case scenario Russian fleet might open fire on certain Isreali targets, so will Syria god helps us if Iran steps up... Global terrorists G8 are pushing the damn " worst case " scenario even more... Dont ever underestimate the power of your enemy... even if it is ME country...

If people are smart they will not get involved in this, it has far higher meaning than some Afganistan or Iraq...

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StratFor is a think tank similar to a non governmental CIA. This is an excellent article on what intervention would, and would NOT accomplish.

Naturally it still is US intelligence, 100% correct for your eyes... i see this article way different than you..

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Syria will solve their problems on their own ... what is in it for US,UK? Too many bombs, bullets??? Wage more wars...

I dont care if Assad nukes hes own country, it is still their bussines.. not yours. You people in US wont be affected in any way, and thanks to Obama which again " officialy " said that no action will be taken agaisnt Syria is a very smart move... Think of it this way... you wont loose any good soldiers/family that way.. like recently 5 men died of a land mine in Afganistan.. you will benefit more if you wont involve...

Good people dont need to die for unknown or false reasons..

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Syria will solve their problems on their own ... what is in it for US,UK? Too many bombs, bullets??? Wage more wars...

I dont care if Assad nukes hes own country, it is still their bussines.. not yours. You people in US wont be affected in any way, and thanks to Obama which again " officialy " said that no action will be taken agaisnt Syria is a very smart move... Think of it this way... you wont loose any good soldiers/family that way.. like recently 5 men died of a land mine in Afganistan.. you will benefit more if you wont involve...

Good people dont need to die for unknown or false reasons..

I agree. The US should NOT be involved in Syria. But whoever wins in this civil war will be as bad or worse than Assad and there will be an ethnic/tribal blood bath. In fact I think it has already begun in some parts of the country. It is a horror for the innocents.

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Has anyone actually red that? Such lies... Media has reported US & EU involvement so far.. and Russians which didnt actually do anything but sent ships to gulf are being blamed all over... Chemical weapons being used by some parties of ressistance yes... not Assad... this page falls under "heavy" missleading source... you can take it for granted but i wont sorry...

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2013/04/26/EU-frets-over-risks-of-a-spillover-from-Syria/UPI-91281367010426/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215647/U-S-steps-involvement-Syria-crisis-American-troops-guard-border-Jordan.html

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/04/27/300612/us-training-syria-militants-in-jordan/

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2013/04/03/U-S-Jordan-boost-training-of-Syria-opposition-fighters-report.html

I've "heard" US & UK military or some other part of those is covertly arming and training certain parts of this ressistance... and now with Israel making those bombing runs, relations will degrade, worst case scenario Russian fleet might open fire on certain Isreali targets, so will Syria god helps us if Iran steps up... Global terrorists G8 are pushing the damn " worst case " scenario even more... Dont ever underestimate the power of your enemy... even if it is ME country...

If people are smart they will not get involved in this, it has far higher meaning than some Afganistan or Iraq...

If Russia and Iran help Syria from Israeli agression then one could only hope the EU and US stay out of it.

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If Russia and Iran help Syria from Israeli agression then one could only hope the EU and US stay out of it.

From your mouth to God's ear :) Read Ezekiel 38/39 some time and see how that "help" turns out :w00t:

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Thing is, Frank, that the days are ending when the US can afford to do that anymore. It has long been my contention that those who hate the US will miss it grievously when it isn't a power any longer. And all the accusations of corruption and illegality won't mean anything when the help a country desperately needs is no longer available from the one source where it so often was..... THEN the cry will be "where is America?"

No thank you. America (and her "allies") should mind their own business for once.

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If Russia and Iran help Syria from Israeli agression then one could only hope the EU and US stay out of it.

So far no one has interfered except us ( EU & UK ) for small part and US with those training of militia...Iran and Russia havent done much so far but are getting obviously restless.. By my opinion everything will work out ok, if noone interfers.

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Posted (edited)

Christians in Syria do not majorly support the rebels (over fears they would not have their rights respected) and overwhelmingly support the Assad administration or remain neutral, while Israel is not the most supportive of Christians residing in Israel.

On the streets of Jerusalem, the religious war on Christmas is on. Last week, the "Lobby for Jewish Values" started handing out fliers condemning the holiday and inciting the public to boycott restaurants and hotels that sell or put up Christmas trees and other "foolish" Christian symbols.

Backed by rabbis, and with the self-righteous air of the American Christian right, lobby chairman Ofer Cohen told the Israeli media that he had considered publishing a list of businesses bold enough to put up Christmas decorations, call for a boycott against them, and - with a little help from Jerusalem Rabbinate - revoke the kashrut certificates of said hotels and restaurants.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/rabbis-versus-christmas-religious-rivalry-in-jerusalem-benefits-no-one-1.1917

There are an increased number at certain times of year, such as during the Purim holiday."I know Christians who lock themselves indoors during the entire Purim holiday," he says.

Former adviser to the mayor on Christian affairs, Shmuel Evyatar, describes the situation as "a huge disgrace." He says most of the instigators are yeshiva students studying in the Old City who view the Christian religion with disdain.

"I'm sure the phenomenon would end as soon as rabbis and well-known educators denounce it. In practice, rabbis of yeshivas ignore or even encourage it," he says.

Evyatar says he himself was spat at while walking with a Serbian bishop in the Jewish quarter, near his home. "A group of yeshiva students spat at us and their teacher just stood by and watched."

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

Finally, basing modern foreign policy on Holy Scriptures is not wise, regardless if yellow smileys are attached to the opinion which claims otherwise.

Add to the fact that some Christians in America do not support Israeli agression. My prayers in this matter are primarily for and with the many innocents that Israel has caused suffering to.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!
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So far no one has interfered except us ( EU & UK ) for small part and US with those training of militia...Iran and Russia havent done much so far but are getting obviously restless.. By my opinion everything will work out ok, if noone interfers.

The Russians have provided most of Syria's weapons, intel and political cover. If that's "not much" I'd hate to see what being really helpful would look like.

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The Russians have provided most of Syria's weapons, intel and political cover. If that's "not much" I'd hate to see what being really helpful would look like.

So what? US is doing the same with most of third world countries that is ok? You know you dont want too see that "much" part beacuse it might start chain of really bad events.. If Isreali armed forces dare so much, god help them if that Russian fleet decides the same..

As from today i red about news article which supports my initial theory about chem weapons... they were indeed used by some parts of ressistance agaisnt Assads Army.. Now tell me is that right? Is that how things get solved? US media picturing Assad as threat with chem weapons?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/06/syrian-chemical-weapons-reports-get-murkier/

http://theweek.com/article/index/243731/are-syrias-rebels-using-chemical-weapons

But what if it isn't Assad's forces using chemical weapons? On Sunday, Carla Del Ponte, a member of a United Nations commission on Syria, said that U.N. human rights investigators have uncovered "strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas." However, she told a Swiss-Italian television station, "this was used on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities."

You should hear some civilians talking about what is actually going on down there instead of just reading lies... For the first time i am glad that Obama is thinking this through...

So the question is who provided the ressistance with Sarin gas?

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So the question is who provided the ressistance with Sarin gas?

Good question.

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So what? US is doing the same with most of third world countries that is ok? You know you dont want too see that "much" part beacuse it might start chain of really bad events.. If Isreali armed forces dare so much, god help them if that Russian fleet decides the same..

As from today i red about news article which supports my initial theory about chem weapons... they were indeed used by some parts of ressistance agaisnt Assads Army.. Now tell me is that right? Is that how things get solved? US media picturing Assad as threat with chem weapons?

http://www.washingto...ts-get-murkier/

http://theweek.com/a...hemical-weapons

You should hear some civilians talking about what is actually going on down there instead of just reading lies... For the first time i am glad that Obama is thinking this through...

So the question is who provided the ressistance with Sarin gas?

It makes no difference to me who supplied Sarin to the "rebels" if they in fact used it. And I completely agree it might have been them and not Assad. I have said all along that no matter WHO "wins" in this civil war, Syria and the west both lose. Whoever comes out the strongest will then turn their attentions to Israel and terrorizing the western nations. What I said about Russia supplying the aid and intel to keep this going has nothing whatever to do with the US and it's misadventures - this is about SYRIA. By your logic whatever the worst behavior of any group is can be justified. Frankly I don't care in the slightest if Assad stays or goes because what replaces him is almost guaranteed to be worse. I feel badly for the elderly and the children but the US owes no obligation as a nation to "fix" all the problems on earth. Especially when those we help will start killing us asap after they are safe.
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It makes no difference to me who supplied Sarin to the "rebels" if they in fact used it. And I completely agree it might have been them and not Assad. I have said all along that no matter WHO "wins" in this civil war, Syria and the west both lose. Whoever comes out the strongest will then turn their attentions to Israel and terrorizing the western nations. What I said about Russia supplying the aid and intel to keep this going has nothing whatever to do with the US and it's misadventures - this is about SYRIA. By your logic whatever the worst behavior of any group is can be justified. Frankly I don't care in the slightest if Assad stays or goes because what replaces him is almost guaranteed to be worse. I feel badly for the elderly and the children but the US owes no obligation as a nation to "fix" all the problems on earth. Especially when those we help will start killing us asap after they are safe.

I agree although I have doubts on this part, I feel badly for the elderly and the children but the US owes no obligation as a nation to "fix" all the problems on earth. I just hope this is a consistent approach for the future.

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Every nation is necessarily and constantly "involved" in the business of all other nations. This is a reality that is not defeated with simple slogans like "it's their business." The old non-interference doctrine produced Hitler and Stalin and a raft of modern tyrannies that cost the world dearly.

As long as they stay quiet and aren't too brutal, the world tends nowadays to live with them and hope they will evolve. If they engage in the outside troublemaking or begin to develop weapons of mass destruction (or, as in the case of Syria, the opportunity presents itself), then efforts to achieve regime change (while risky) are appropriate.

What to do requires a deft touch. Selling or giving arms, providing training, providing intelligence, providing advice, making supportive speeches and appearances, issuing White Papers and public statements: all these are relatively cheap, but subject to criticism of "not doing enough" generally because they are of limited effectiveness.

If one controls the air (not hard over Syria) and has good intelligence, precision bombing minimizing civilian casualties is a next step, and seem to be where the Israelis have gone, no doubt with an American nod. Generally the last resort is sending in foreign troops: that goes down badly at home and gives the other side the chance of claiming it is defending the homeland. It also tends to become a tar pit. Nevertheless it can happen and hopefully in a few instances in the future the major nations will be able to find a consensus on when.

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I think the Russians are looking at the Middle East and see that the Syrian regime is probably done for and even if not has lost both respectability and validity. So maybe being more friendly with Israel, considering all the natural gas they appear now to have, is not such a bad idea.

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