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Saru

Is antimatter the key to anti-gravity ?

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Scientists at CERN are experimenting to determine if an antimatter object would actually fall upwards.

Researchers at Cern in Switzerland have tested a novel way to find out if antimatter is the source of a force termed "antigravity". Antimatter particles are the "mirror image" of normal matter, but with opposite electric charge.

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Would be so cool if this turned out to be the case. It could revolutionise space travel.

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Posted (edited)

How could you build something from a matter that you are not be able to see?

Edited by FlyingAngel

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Doesn't anti-matter cause matter and itself to blink out of existence if they come into contact? Not very practical or safe to use on a matter-planet filled with matter-people.

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How could you build something from a matter that you are not be able to see?

No one is suggesting this.
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Posted (edited)

Would be so cool if this turned out to be the case. It could revolutionise space travel.

This wouldn't change a thing for space travel as gravity is of no concern. This would, however, revolutionize future space vehicles during re-entry to a planet that has gravity. No more gas guzzling, archaic rocket type thrusters of which are unstable and difficult to use when trying to leave or re-enter the gravitational pull in terrestrial bodies. This breakthrough would revolutionize flight as we know it!

Edited by ColoradoParanormal

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This wouldn't change a thing for space travel as gravity is of no concern. This would, however, revolutionize future space vehicles during re-entry to a planet that has gravity. No more gas guzzling, archaic rocket type thrusters of which are unstable and difficult to use when trying to leave or re-enter the gravitational pull in terrestrial bodies. This breakthrough would revolutionize flight as we know it!

Yes, by space-flight I essentially meant 'flight'. No more expensive, months apart rocket launches due to massive amounts of fuel being needed and the planning required for flawless launches. It would make leaving the planet less troublesome, which is the most expensive part of space travel as far as I'm aware. Therefore we would probably do it more often. And, as you say, re-entry would also be made far easier.

That is what I meant by revolutionising space-flight.

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Doesn't anti-matter cause matter and itself to blink out of existence if they come into contact? Not very practical or safe to use on a matter-planet filled with matter-people.

You are correct. It would not be safe at all.

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What I think is most fascinating about the possibility of ``negative gravitational mass'' antimatter is the ramifications on the asymmetry of matter and antimatter and the Hubble flow.

If, somehow matter and antimatter became spatially separated in the early period of the Universe, it is possible that gravitational repulsion would separate them further: you would have an equal number of matter and antimatter galaxies all pushing each other apart.

I don't think this would explain away Hubble flow or dark energy completely, but I think it would require a bit of re-evaluation of these theories.

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Posted (edited)

Let's be very real about this. Anti-gravity is already functioning and used in this world. It is just that the technology is NOT reflected to the public.

Edited by regeneratia

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Posted (edited)

Let's be very real about this. Anti-gravity is already functioning and used in this world.

If that is the case then the entire body of advanced theoretical physics as currently understood by graduate students, post docs and professors in civilian universities is a carefully constructed lie, or all advanced researchers in civilian institutions are part of some conspiracy.

The former possibility is pretty unbelievable, because apparently no grant-hungry, desperate-to-publish-something theoretical physicist has found any inconsistencies within this fake theory, and no grant-hungry, desperate-to-publish-something experimental physicist has found repeatable evidence that these fake theories are wrong.

The latter possibility is pretty unbelievable, because I am a grant-hungry, desperate-to-keep-publishing physicist (who, incidentally, has done research at a few government labs in the US and other countries), and no shadowy conspiracy group has threatened or bribed me to keep the truth from the masses.

Edited by sepulchrave

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If that is the case then the entire body of advanced theoretical physics as currently understood by graduate students, post docs and professors in civilian universities is a carefully constructed lie, or all advanced researchers in civilian institutions are part of some conspiracy.

The former possibility is pretty unbelievable, because apparently no grant-hungry, desperate-to-publish-something theoretical physicist has found any inconsistencies within this fake theory, and no grant-hungry, desperate-to-publish-something experimental physicist has found repeatable evidence that these fake theories are wrong.

The latter possibility is pretty unbelievable, because I am a grant-hungry, desperate-to-keep-publishing physicist (who, incidentally, has done research at a few government labs in the US and other countries), and no shadowy conspiracy group has threatened or bribed me to keep the truth from the masses.

What if the material being taught is true to the best of the worlds knowledge though?

Maybe a small group employed by the Govt have discovered something and they are keeping it under wraps, they would be the only people who would know the truth.

I dont think that would discredit hardc working folks such as yourself for trying to advance the science.

It would just be a real disservice to people such as yourself for letting you waste your time going in a direction that wont result in any advances.

I wouldnt be surprised though if the govt didnt know something that they were hiding.

Good luck in your research though, i would love to see some new advancements in physics.

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Yeah, well I consider your posts to be an excuse NOT to believe.

If that is the case then the entire body of advanced theoretical physics as currently understood by graduate students, post docs and professors in civilian universities is a carefully constructed lie, or all advanced researchers in civilian institutions are part of some conspiracy.

The former possibility is pretty unbelievable, because apparently no grant-hungry, desperate-to-publish-something theoretical physicist has found any inconsistencies within this fake theory, and no grant-hungry, desperate-to-publish-something experimental physicist has found repeatable evidence that these fake theories are wrong.

Yeah, well, yoiu

The latter possibility is pretty unbelievable, because I am a grant-hungry, desperate-to-keep-publishing physicist (who, incidentally, has done research at a few government labs in the US and other countries), and no shadowy conspiracy group has threatened or bribed me to keep the truth from the masses.

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I wonder if, once they could make "anti-gravity" they could then control it to define or create a specific gravity so that you could nullify g-forces on an accelerating craft from the perspective of those within the craft like the inertial dampeners in star trek? Right now a fighter jets performance is largely limited by the capacity of the human pilot to withstand forces of gravity, what if that limitation were eliminated? You would have fighters that could fly circles around everything else, literally.

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I think their going to find that anti-gravity works just like gravity does. Other wise there would be no anti-matter bigger than an atom.

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Let's be very real about this. Anti-gravity is already functioning and used in this world. It is just that the technology is NOT reflected to the public.

*cough*BS*cough*

It must be nice to live in a world where the imagination rules and reality is in the back seat......

Cheers,

Badeskov

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What if the material being taught is true to the best of the worlds knowledge though?

Maybe a small group employed by the Govt have discovered something and they are keeping it under wraps, they would be the only people who would know the truth.

I dont think that would discredit hardc working folks such as yourself for trying to advance the science.

It would just be a real disservice to people such as yourself for letting you waste your time going in a direction that wont result in any advances.

I wouldnt be surprised though if the govt didnt know something that they were hiding.

Good luck in your research though, i would love to see some new advancements in physics.

Your almost correct. The military is about twenty years ahead of us. They invented the iternet in the fifties and allowed universitier on it in the sixties and everyone else in the eighties. In 1983, I saw a wearhous full of lap tops. The next gen of communcation.

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Posted (edited)

*cough*BS*cough*

It must be nice to live in a world where the imagination rules and reality is in the back seat......

Cheers,

Badeskov

I thought we weren't supposed to make fun of people or their posts. Are you exempt from the rules? If so, can I be too? How do you get to a position to ignore the rules?

I once sat next to a young man on a plane who carried on a very interesting conversation with me. He was going to meet his mentor at Los Alamos, where he was starting to work. He said that she said that "if we can imagine it, we now have the technology to make it happen." We talked about time-travel. But we could just have easily talked about anti-gravity.

The ridicule factor you presented does not shut me up. It just makes me realize that you want me and others to believe something other than what I wrote.

Edited by regeneratia

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I thought we weren't supposed to make fun of people or their posts. Are you exempt from the rules? If so, can I be too? How do you get to a position to ignore the rules?

I once sat next to a young man on a plane who carried on a very interesting conversation with me. He was going to meet his mentor at Los Alamos, where he was starting to work. He said that she said that "if we can imagine it, we now have the technology to make it happen." We talked about time-travel. But we could just have easily talked about anti-gravity.

The ridicule factor you presented does not shut me up. It just makes me realize that you want me and others to believe something other than what I wrote.

The ancient greeks had all the parts to make a steam engine. They just didn't know how to put it together.

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Posted (edited)

The ancient greeks had all the parts to make a steam engine. They just didn't know how to put it together.

I am sure from your perspective, that would be the case. do you know anything about los alamos? better search for info about it. meanwhile i have alerts set for it and see the news on it as it comes in.

Edited by regeneratia

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Antimatter is solution of our most problems :), Ect reaching march quicker than months

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I am sure from your perspective, that would be the case. do you know anything about los alamos? better search for info about it. meanwhile i have alerts set for it and see the news on it as it comes in.

Don't know what a modern lab has to do with long dead greeks. But, maybe you should have read both of my posts.

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Antimatter is not key to anti-gravity, it is the key to anti matterialisam. :-)

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I once sat next to a young man on a plane who carried on a very interesting conversation with me. He was going to meet his mentor at Los Alamos, where he was starting to work. He said that she said that "if we can imagine it, we now have the technology to make it happen." We talked about time-travel. But we could just have easily talked about anti-gravity.

Talking about it is one thing, having reliably functioning devices is another.

I don't want to ridicule you for your beliefs, since I also form perceptions based on my beliefs.

I believe that no human agency has operating antigravity devices.

I believe this because the only theoretical way that antigravity could operate is by something that has a negative gravitational mass. In the last 80 years of high energy collider experiments, advanced optical, X-ray, radio telescopes (etc.) looking into the cosmos, and studies of advanced new materials exposed to extreme temperatures, magnetic fields, electric fields, and pressures we have never seen any clear evidence of negative gravitational mass, or any kind of other force coupling to gravity (electrogravitics in particular).

Does the military, or any other secretive well-funded agency, have access to advanced prototypes? Undoubtably.

Are there prototype aircraft that can perform mindboggling aerial acrobatic maneuvers? Why not.

Even the briefest look into the animal world shows us that insects and birds are capable of all kinds of insane aerial maneuvers - so building an aircraft to do these is just a matter of refining the materials, propulsion systems, and aircraft geometry.

It is clearly possible for something to fly like a dragonfly (for example), because obviously dragonflies exist and can do it. Whether or not we have the technology to build an aircraft that can fly like that is debatable, but the design basically comes down to materials with a strength to weight ratio of x, and a propulsion system with a thrust to weight ratio of y, etc. and designing systems that fit those requirements.

I believe that a true antigravity device large enough to be of practical use would require either:


  • A large quantity of stable exotic matter (something negative mass and/or negative energy), that has never been conclusively observed or is normally too unstable to test, or
  • A method of generating a fundamental force without using the coupling constant normally responsible for that force.

For example, if antimatter exerts negative gravity, then your antigravity vehicle will have to be 50% antimatter (by absolute mass) to be able to ``float'' (i.e. have a null total gravitational influence).

Of course we all know that if antimatter ever touches regular matter, they will both annihilate in a shower of gamma rays (which represents a pretty catastrophic failure), so out of the 50% regular matter portion of your craft you are going to need to have a large portion be some sort of magnetic vacuum confinement apparatus.

Basically, I believe it is very improbable that some shadowy agency has working antigravity devices when no civilian agency has ever been able to reliably confirm that antigravity is even possible.

I justify my beliefs from my experience and training, and also conversations over drinks with other scientists. I (regrettably) have not yet had the opportunity to visit Los Alamos, but I do have security clearance for the Berkeley Lab (and visit there more than once a year), I used to have clearance for SLAC (haven't been there in a few years though). I also have some good friends from the Argonne Lab.

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Don't know what a modern lab has to do with long dead greeks. But, maybe you should have read both of my posts.

really, you have to think past what I write, Danilost. Seems you just don't do that.

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I believe that there is already invented antigravity devices and that they are currently being used somewhere in the world.

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Talking about it is one thing, having reliably functioning devices is another.

I don't want to ridicule you for your beliefs, since I also form perceptions based on my beliefs.

I believe that no human agency has operating antigravity devices.

I believe this because the only theoretical way that antigravity could operate is by something that has a negative gravitational mass. In the last 80 years of high energy collider experiments, advanced optical, X-ray, radio telescopes (etc.) looking into the cosmos, and studies of advanced new materials exposed to extreme temperatures, magnetic fields, electric fields, and pressures we have never seen any clear evidence of negative gravitational mass, or any kind of other force coupling to gravity (electrogravitics in particular).

Does the military, or any other secretive well-funded agency, have access to advanced prototypes? Undoubtably.

Are there prototype aircraft that can perform mindboggling aerial acrobatic maneuvers? Why not.

Even the briefest look into the animal world shows us that insects and birds are capable of all kinds of insane aerial maneuvers - so building an aircraft to do these is just a matter of refining the materials, propulsion systems, and aircraft geometry.

It is clearly possible for something to fly like a dragonfly (for example), because obviously dragonflies exist and can do it. Whether or not we have the technology to build an aircraft that can fly like that is debatable, but the design basically comes down to materials with a strength to weight ratio of x, and a propulsion system with a thrust to weight ratio of y, etc. and designing systems that fit those requirements.

I believe that a true antigravity device large enough to be of practical use would require either:

  • A large quantity of stable exotic matter (something negative mass and/or negative energy), that has never been conclusively observed or is normally too unstable to test, or
  • A method of generating a fundamental force without using the coupling constant normally responsible for that force.

For example, if antimatter exerts negative gravity, then your antigravity vehicle will have to be 50% antimatter (by absolute mass) to be able to ``float'' (i.e. have a null total gravitational influence).

Of course we all know that if antimatter ever touches regular matter, they will both annihilate in a shower of gamma rays (which represents a pretty catastrophic failure), so out of the 50% regular matter portion of your craft you are going to need to have a large portion be some sort of magnetic vacuum confinement apparatus.

Basically, I believe it is very improbable that some shadowy agency has working antigravity devices when no civilian agency has ever been able to reliably confirm that antigravity is even possible.

I justify my beliefs from my experience and training, and also conversations over drinks with other scientists. I (regrettably) have not yet had the opportunity to visit Los Alamos, but I do have security clearance for the Berkeley Lab (and visit there more than once a year), I used to have clearance for SLAC (haven't been there in a few years though). I also have some good friends from the Argonne Lab.

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