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The Id3al Experience

5yr old kills Sister with Gift

175 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

There seems to be a problem here with how some people are making statistics: Any unintentional shooting is an accident, just as any unintentional hit by a car is. If the criminal was NOT shooting at a kid and a kid got hit it was an accident.

No, that's a crime.

I'm using the definitions established by the Justice Department, Law Enforcement, the CDC, etc.

Edited by Rafterman
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No, that's a crime.

I'm using the definitions established by the Justice Department, Law Enforcement, the CDC, etc.

So, if a guy, on the way to beat up his girlfriend, hits a kid with his car it is not an accident either?

That is number cosmetics done to avoid showing the evident: most people are neither capable nor qualified and utterly unable of properly of using a gun. Including criminals.

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Posted (edited)

: most people are neither capable nor qualified and utterly unable of properly of using a gun. Including criminals.

another LIE.

Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.

so out of 50 million gun owners, only 11000 murders (all kinds, intentional and not) so that makes 50000000\11000=0,00022% that sure is not even close to MOST.

someone has a worst case of math illiteracy i've sen yet.

also some other interesting facts, to debunk other lies on here

* A 1997 U.S. Justice Department survey of 14,285 state prison inmates found that among those inmates who carried a firearm during the offense for which they were sent to jail, 0.7% obtained the firearm at a gun show, 1% at a flea market, 3.8% from a pawn shop, 8.3% from a retail store, 39.2% through an illegal/street source, and 39.6% through family or friends.[94]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[12]

A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"

• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"

• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]

http://www.justfacts.../guncontrol.asp

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post-45398-0-29672500-1367513751_thumb.j

Edited by aztek
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another LIE.

Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.

so out of 50 million gun owners, only 11000 murders (all kinds, intentional and not) so that makes 50000000\11000=0,00022% that sure is not even close to MOST.

someone has a worst case of math illiteracy i've sen yet.

also some other interesting facts, to debunk other lies on here

* A 1997 U.S. Justice Department survey of 14,285 state prison inmates found that among those inmates who carried a firearm during the offense for which they were sent to jail, 0.7% obtained the firearm at a gun show, 1% at a flea market, 3.8% from a pawn shop, 8.3% from a retail store, 39.2% through an illegal/street source, and 39.6% through family or friends.[94]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[12]

A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"

• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"

• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]

http://www.justfacts.../guncontrol.asp

And that is relevant to the qualification to use a gun because....?

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Awesome posts aztek and Rafterman.

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The flip side of freedom is responsibility, but most people never turn the coin over.

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* A 1997 U.S. Justice Department survey of 14,285 state prison inmates found that among those inmates who carried a firearm during the offense for which they were sent to jail, 0.7% obtained the firearm at a gun show,

another detail, 0,7% of inmates in jails, it does not mean that they were felons, or prohibited to own a gun, at the time they purchased the gun at the gun show. and it also means that they might have had clean record at the time and passed all checks.

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The flip side of freedom is responsibility, but most people never turn the coin over.

can you be more specific how you came up with most???? cuz facts sure say different numbers.

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And that is relevant to the qualification to use a gun because....?

i,m gald you asked.

the only way you can determine if person is not qualified, or not responcible enough is when something bad happens, like an accident.

and ratio of accidents to total number of gun owners shows you are very much wrong, actually most are qualified, and are responcible.

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In southern Kentucky, where children get their first guns even before they start school, Stephanie Sparks paid little attention as her 5-year-old son played with the rifle he was given last year.

If this is so and the government know it, then how does the laws on gun ownership work here...or doesn`t it?

The rifle was made by a company that sells guns specifically for children - "My first rifle" is the slogan - in colours ranging to hot pink and multi-colour swirls.

unbelievable!!!!

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what is so unbelieveble? millions of kids get heir first kiddie rifles at 5-10years of age, and grow up to be responcible adults, and know how to handle firearms. assuming they are tought responcibuility by parents. once in a blue moon somehing like this happens.

we got 50million gun owners, do you see million accidents a year???

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Posted (edited)

Got my first gun when I was 8 or 9. Was never allowed to "play" with it. It was locked up until my dad and I went shooting. These parents were irresponsible.

Edited by CRYSiiSx2
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i,m gald you asked.

the only way you can determine if person is not qualified, or not responcible enough is when something bad happens, like an accident.

and ratio of accidents to total number of gun owners shows you are very much wrong, actually most are qualified, and are responcible.

The ratio of gun owners seez absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the owners, most people who own a gun use it less than twice a year. If cars were used less than twice a year they would be the safest means of transportation.

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Posted (edited)

can you be more specific how you came up with most???? cuz facts sure say different numbers.

what is so unbelieveble? millions of kids get heir first kiddie rifles at 5-10years of age, and grow up to be responcible adults, and know how to handle firearms. assuming they are tought responcibuility by parents. once in a blue moon somehing like this happens.

we got 50million gun owners, do you see million accidents a year???

If you prefer: x number of people never turn the coin over. The x is more than one and is more than it should be. If you think the number of accidents is insignificant, tell that to the families involved.

Here are some "accidents", gun or otherwise, in my recent memory which could have been avoided through responsible behavior. I put that in quotation marks, because my opinion is that irresponsibility leads to a higher percentage of accidents.

• A 12 year old boy was cleaning his rifle on the front porch of his home. His rifle discharged, wounding his 5 year old brother and killing him.

• A wife shot and killed her husband because she lost her temper during an argument.

• An adult was cleaning his hand gun when it discharged and killed his toddler daughter.

• A 19 year old driver was speeding in the rain and caused a fatal collision for herself and three others.

• A football player was driving drunk and cause a wreck which killed his passenger.

• An 18 year old driver was driving at a high rate of speed at 1:00 a.m. on a Saturday. His passengers were a a 15 year old boy, a 14 year old girl, and a 12 year old girl. He lost control of his truck when going over a railroad crossing, popular because it provides air time. His truck crashed into a mobile home. The mobile home caught fire and was destroyed. The truck caught fire, and the driver and the older girl burned alive.

Each one of these examples could have been avoided had one person taken proper responsibility in handling the weapon or vehicle.

I don't care if the statistic is as low as 1%. That's higher than it needs to be. No life should be taken as a result of another's irresponsibility.

Edited by J. K.
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Posted (edited)

[/size]

If you prefer: x number of people never turn the coin over. The x is more than one and is more than it should be. If you think the number of accidents is insignificant, tell that to the families involved.

Here are some "accidents", gun or otherwise, in my recent memory which could have been avoided through responsible behavior. I put that in quotation marks, because my opinion is that irresponsibility leads to a higher percentage of accidents.

• A 12 year old boy was cleaning his rifle on the front porch of his home. His rifle discharged, wounding his 5 year old brother and killing him.

• A wife shot and killed her husband because she lost her temper during an argument.

• An adult was cleaning his hand gun when it discharged and killed his toddler daughter.

• A 19 year old driver was speeding in the rain and caused a fatal collision for herself and three others.

• A football player was driving drunk and cause a wreck which killed his passenger.

• An 18 year old driver was driving at a high rate of speed at 1:00 a.m. on a Saturday. His passengers were a a 15 year old boy, a 14 year old girl, and a 12 year old girl. He lost control of his truck when going over a railroad crossing, popular because it provides air time. His truck crashed into a mobile home. The mobile home caught fire and was destroyed. The truck caught fire, and the driver and the older girl burned alive.

Each one of these examples could have been avoided had one person taken proper responsibility in handling the weapon or vehicle.

I don't care if the statistic is as low as 1%. That's higher than it needs to be. No life should be taken as a result of another's irresponsibility.

so??? when you figure out, someday, that we live in real world, and your number that, it needs to be, is nothing but a myth, wet dream, utopia...etc, or simply unachevable, (and i see it quite poinless, and couterproductive to apply utopical mesures to real world, and expect it to work), than we can talk how to improve real world, so far you and a wrighter here suffer from reality disconection disorder. or so it seems.

and still your estimate MOST, in context you used it, holds no water.

Edited by aztek
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Since an accident occurrence of zero is "unachievable" and to work toward lessening those occurrences is "pointless" and "counterproductive", could you tell me what number or percentage is acceptable in the real world?

"Then we can talk how to improve real world" - if you believe that accidents are unavoidable, then why waste time working on improvements?

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There is such a lack of commen sense in this world we have to have two or three pages of warnings on everything we buy. I wonder how many times someone was killed before they add each warning? Now there are so many warnings people don't even bother to read them, but the products are still on the market and people are still being killed by them. It's not so bad with electrical appliances anymore, with the new ground fault outlets and breakers. Thankfully, the manufactures have covered their butts and can't be sued now anyway. That's all that really matters isn't it? Unless it's a gun.

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what is so unbelieveble? millions of kids get heir first kiddie rifles at 5-10years of age, and grow up to be responcible adults, and know how to handle firearms. assuming they are tought responcibuility by parents. once in a blue moon somehing like this happens.

we got 50million gun owners, do you see million accidents a year???

What is unbelievable is that companies are making these guns for children and your government are trying to enforce rules to make guns more difficult to purchase for "adults".

Thats quite scary really...millions????

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The ratio of gun owners seez absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the owners, most people who own a gun use it less than twice a year. If cars were used less than twice a year they would be the safest means of transportation.

Like most other mechanical things, if cars were used only twice a year people would be out of practice, uncertain and not familiar with new circumstances like roundabouts.

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Like most other mechanical things, if cars were used only twice a year people would be out of practice, uncertain and not familiar with new circumstances like roundabouts.

Guess that there are exceptions to the rule. But then again, if cars were used only twice a year there would be no need for innovations...or big roads for that case.

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The rifle was made by a company that sells guns specifically for children - "My first rifle" is the slogan - in colours ranging to hot pink and multi-colour swirls.

unbelievable!!!!

No it is not......

Most parents are responsible, and so are most kids, as they learn responsibility.

Stop being so ignorant and blaming the gun companies.

Father%20and%20son%20hunting.jpg

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The ratio of gun owners seez absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the owners, most people who own a gun use it less than twice a year. If cars were used less than twice a year they would be the safest means of transportation.

Where do you get your bull**** facts from over there across the pond?

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What is unbelievable is that companies are making these guns for children and your government are trying to enforce rules to make guns more difficult to purchase for "adults".

Thats quite scary really...millions????

i don't see your point at all.

so industry makes guns for kids, becouse kids can't handle full size adult guns, i see nothing wrong with that.

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Posted (edited)

The ratio of gun owners seez absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the owners,

ratio of accidents against total number of owners. it sure tells you how many ppl are capable of handling guns in a safe maner. i don't get what capabilities of the owners you talking about

Edited by aztek
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