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The Id3al Experience

5yr old kills Sister with Gift

175 posts in this topic

I can't wrap my head round it Freetoroam! Whilst I respect the American folks to have their rights to their own gun culture. I can't help but think that the most dangerous thing here in the UK that we buy for our kids for birthday's etc is probably a trampoline :unsure2:

Its a completely different way of life, I am just glad we are not in a position where we believe leaving our child alone in a house with guns about which are not locked away and are at the ready for the child to use in case of an intruder, to be acceptable and responsible behavior! You see, personally, if I felt my child could be left in danger in the first place because of my absence, then I would NOT go out in the first place! let alone leave a gun for them to use....just in case!

I can`t get my head round it either.

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Well, what about BB guns?

I mean, kids that are 7 or 8 like BB guns. A Christmas Story ring a bell? You'll shoot your eye out kid! My husband and I bought our 10 year old nephew a BB gun, last year at Christmas. He lives in the city, but he loves it!

There kinda what every little boy wants. And BB guns are marketed to kids. Heck, their are even pink camo ones! (I want one of those, I love pink camo. I know! I'm weird)

So, does anyone have a problem with BB guns? Just asking a question, is all. I understand that there is a huge difference in a .22 and a BB gun. Just asking a question guys.

That is quite simple, a normal BB gun has about 15 joules of muzzle energy (or 11 foot pounds), enough to cause some injury but hardly something really serious, the average .22, to the contrary, with its muzzle energy of 141 joules (or roughly the tenfold of a BB gun) can kill you at a distance further than anybody can shoot it straight. And even with BB guns nobody should let a child 5 years old unsupervised, twice that age is not even really safe.

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That is quite simple, a normal BB gun has about 15 joules of muzzle energy (or 11 foot pounds), enough to cause some injury but hardly something really serious, the average .22, to the contrary, with its muzzle energy of 141 joules (or roughly the tenfold of a BB gun) can kill you at a distance further than anybody can shoot it straight. And even with BB guns nobody should let a child 5 years old unsupervised, twice that age is not even really safe.

I get what you are saying. Big difference in .22s and BB guns. And, as I said in my last post, I think 5 is quite too young to be having a .22 gun in their hands with NO supervision. That's just stupid.

But as for marketing to kids guns, I think BB guns are perfectly acceptable. I think .22s should be reserved for people who are a lot older than five, and under the supervision of a parent. And these guns should not be treated as toys either. They're not.

It just, to me, sounded like people were saying guns should look scary, and not be marketed to kids, when I think BB guns are totally fine to do this with. That's all.

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I get what you are saying. Big difference in .22s and BB guns. And, as I said in my last post, I think 5 is quite too young to be having a .22 gun in their hands with NO supervision. That's just stupid.

But as for marketing to kids guns, I think BB guns are perfectly acceptable. I think .22s should be reserved for people who are a lot older than five, and under the supervision of a parent. And these guns should not be treated as toys either. They're not.

It just, to me, sounded like people were saying guns should look scary, and not be marketed to kids, when I think BB guns are totally fine to do this with. That's all.

No kid under 14 should ever have a gun in his hands without a parent standing immediately behind it. But some parents are just big kids.

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So, if a guy, on the way to beat up his girlfriend, hits a kid with his car it is not an accident either?

That is number cosmetics done to avoid showing the evident: most people are neither capable nor qualified and utterly unable of properly of using a gun. Including criminals.

Take it up with the Federal Government. Those are their definitions. I believe it has to do with intent, but I'm not an attorney.

And your second sentence is just absurd. When it comes to accidents (US Government Definition) the rates compared to the number of firearms owned by the general public aren't even statistically significant (a few hundred vs 300 million). Clearly gun owners are some of the safest and responsible groups on the planet. You can't even argue against that.

And even if you take the total number of gun deaths (accidents, illegal use, legal use, and suicides), the numbers vs 300 million guns in private hands barely show up on the graph.

Again, what happened in Kentucky was tragic, but it is no more a condemnation of gun owners than having an unrestrained child killed in a car accident being a condemnation of drivers.

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And make sure that actual grown-ups buy them.

Do you guys really think that children walk into Wal-Mart and buy guns?

Seriously?

You guys are aware that it wasn't even legal for Adam Lanza to buy the guns he used in Newtown.

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kids should just be allowed to just be kids and not be dragged into this 'constitutional rights' of choice or not ...

kinda same with those garment and cosmetic marketing ploys targeting preteen 'fashion freedom' to dress or wear 'sexy' like 'grown ups' ...

there should be a boundary to what free market profit interests have priority over when it comes to the well being of children, everywhere

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Five years old is just too young for a gun. Kids that age don't even understand what death is.

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1227982028_Guns_xlarge.jpeg

Aaaaaaaaahh!!!!

Aren't they just adorable!

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No kid under 14 should ever have a gun in his hands without a parent standing immediately behind it. But some parents are just big kids.

I just hope you mean "guns" by anything .22 or up. I think a BB gun is okay for kids under 14. But, yes .22s and anything more lethal, should be suprivised by an adult. Guns are NOT TOYS, either. I was brought up with a great respect for guns. But, I think BB guns should be okay for kids. I mean it was okay in past, to buy a 9 year old a BB gun. What's wrong with that? That's all I've been trying to say throughout my posts. I'm sorry if some people are taking my words out of context. Five year olds should not be allowed to "play" with .22s. That's stupid. And You can't fix stupid.

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Since an accident occurrence of zero is "unachievable" and to work toward lessening those occurrences is "pointless" and "counterproductive", could you tell me what number or percentage is acceptable in the real world?

"Then we can talk how to improve real world" - if you believe that accidents are unavoidable, then why waste time working on improvements?

unachievable, true, but did i say any work pointless??? no.

measure offered, is pointless and counterproductive, and proven such,

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No kid under 14 should ever have a gun in his hands without a parent standing immediately behind it. But some parents are just big kids.

Its a completely different way of life, I am just glad we are not in a position where we believe leaving our child alone in a house with guns about which are not locked away and are at the ready for the child to use in case of an intruder, to be acceptable and responsible behavior! You see, personally, if I felt my child could be left in danger in the first place because of my absence, then I would NOT go out in the first place! let alone leave a gun for them to use....just in case!

I can`t get my head round it either.

kids should just be allowed to just be kids and not be dragged into this 'constitutional rights' of choice or not ...

kinda same with those garment and cosmetic marketing ploys targeting preteen 'fashion freedom' to dress or wear 'sexy' like 'grown ups' ...

there should be a boundary to what free market profit interests have priority over when it comes to the well being of children, everywhere

What was this kid thinking? He should've just been being a kid instead of defending himself and his mother.

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=402271#.UYL-FTfySRN

I guess it was OK since the mother didn't leave him home alone, and she was 'standing' behind him. :-*

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http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2011/11/23/10-year-old-wash-boy-defends-mom-with-bb-gun - I wish the boy had access to a .22 long rifle in this situation.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/homeinvasion.asp - Found this article checking into the authenticity of an 11 year old defending the home, and there's two more verified of juveniles defending the home, one was 11.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/06/23/14-year-old-shoots-armed-intruder-while-babysitting-his-younger-siblings-in-phoenix/# - This one is 14

Personally, if I had a kid, I would be proud of the level head and courage they displayed if they were one of the above.

Not sure to make of what some of you would do, maybe call for the parents or the kid to get arrested since they possessed a firearm before the age of 18?

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What was this kid thinking? He should've just been being a kid instead of defending himself and his mother.

http://www.valleycen...71#.UYL-FTfySRN

I guess it was OK since the mother didn't leave him home alone, and she was 'standing' behind him. :-*

http://www.dailytexa...th-bb-gun - I wish the boy had access to a .22 long rifle in this situation.

http://www.snopes.co...n.asp - Found this article checking into the authenticity of an 11 year old defending the home, and there's two more verified of juveniles defending the home, one was 11.

http://www.theblaze....enix/# - This one is 14

Personally, if I had a kid, I would be proud of the level head and courage they displayed if they were one of the above.

Not sure to make of what some of you would do, maybe call for the parents or the kid to get arrested since they possessed a firearm before the age of 18?

You're very right. :tu:

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http://www.dailytexa...th-bb-gun - I wish the boy had access to a .22 long rifle in this situation.

http://www.snopes.co...n.asp - Found this article checking into the authenticity of an 11 year old defending the home, and there's two more verified of juveniles defending the home, one was 11.

http://www.theblaze....enix/# - This one is 14

Personally, if I had a kid, I would be proud of the level head and courage they displayed if they were one of the above.

Not sure to make of what some of you would do, maybe call for the parents or the kid to get arrested since they possessed a firearm before the age of 18?

There is a difference between a 14 year old using a firearm in self defence and a 5 year old playing with a loaded gun.

For one the 14 year old has 9 more years of experience and probably has probably grown up to respect the firearm, though that is speculation on the last part.

The 5 year old was just playing with the gun, which was loaded. Gun's are not toys they are tools, dangerous and deadly tools.

~Thanato

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Posted (edited)

kids should just be allowed to just be kids and not be dragged into this 'constitutional rights' of choice or not ...

As Obama has them stand next to him and use them as props...

And to those saying only adults should be using guns...

Edited by CRYSiiSx2
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Thanato: I have not defended, or suggested that the 5 year old should have had the gun. This was gross negligence on the parents part, and I feel for the 2 year old, and family.

With that said, some of the posters here make statements that are either 1) False or 2) Speculation. I'm simply correcting those posters.

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Posted (edited)

What was this kid thinking? He should've just been being a kid instead of defending himself and his mother.

~snip

As Obama has them stand next to him and use them as props...

And to those saying only adults should be using guns...

~ media snip

That child and those children should never have been put in such a situation in the first place .... it was the fault of the adults that the child should have been 'expected' and applauded to kill at such an age regardless of the situation, the adults owe this child a world of apologies for not making his world a safer place as was intended and promised.

~edit - double post bypass

Edited by third_eye
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How sad... 5 is so young, I wonder how much he understands about what's going on...

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How sad... 5 is so young, I wonder how much he understands about what's going on...

Exactly what I was meaning to say .. everybody seems to spouting principles, axioms, postulates, propositions, integrity, probity, rectitude, honor and truths left and right but nobody seems to care about the children and what they are going through, specially this particular child .... who want's to ask the child what he thinks of guns now ?

Instead of giving kids guns to make the world a safe as one would like to think it should be, how about making the world safe for the children first ?

Then allow them guns if it is still essential to their safety or peace of mind.

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Exactly what I was meaning to say .. everybody seems to spouting principles, axioms, postulates, propositions, integrity, probity, rectitude, honor and truths left and right but nobody seems to care about the children and what they are going through, specially this particular child .... who want's to ask the child what he thinks of guns now ?

Instead of giving kids guns to make the world a safe as one would like to think it should be, how about making the world safe for the children first ?

Then allow them guns if it is still essential to their safety or peace of mind.

You'd think...

My ex's brother died when he was 7 and my ex 8, of no fault if his he died in his sleep but my ex never got over it. He blames himself to this day even though he had nothing to do with it.

This boy, on the other hand, .... I don't even know what to think he's going to go through.

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You'd think...

My ex's brother died when he was 7 and my ex 8, of no fault if his he died in his sleep but my ex never got over it. He blames himself to this day even though he had nothing to do with it.

This boy, on the other hand, .... I don't even know what to think he's going to go through.

And that is the saddest thing. As this boy grown up he will know what he did and I am sure he will blame himself. But it isn't his fault, it's his parents fault.

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Posted (edited)

With that said, some of the posters here make statements that are either 1) False or 2) Speculation. I'm simply correcting those posters.

Really?

.

Seriously, this again? We already went over this when that boy in Texas had access to his firearms and defended the home. It's also the same thread where everyone not from the U.S. was stunned that I had my own rifle when I was 5 years old, and even more stunned that I could have gotten the gun out of the cabinet since I was 9.

To sum that up again, yes. Responsibility isn't tied to an age, it's tied to a mindset. When I was 12, I would have been fully capable to defend the home in the absence of my parents.

Yes, this again, because this is what this thread is about...kids and guns.

Can you explain the mindset of a 5 year old child and their responsibility of having a gun in their hands, seeing that its not tied to age?

So basically all the responsible adult bit about their guns are locked away is not true as it seems some on here are in favour of guns being accessible to kids when the parent is not at at home.

I will say it again and repeat what third_eye has said: no parent should be leaving their child alone where a guns needs to be left for them to use if there is a possibility of any danger....PARENTS SHOULD BE PROTECTING THEIR CHILDREN, NOT A GUN LEFT FOR THE KID TO USE.

Edited by freetoroam
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Posted (edited)

Just a point on the age thing, my kids are 4 and 6. They know what is right and what is wrong. I've explained time and time again that they don't touch plug sockets. If I asked my 6 year old kid why not to touch plug sockets he would say that you can get electrocuted and it can kill you.

However about 2 months ago I saw him sticking his fingers in a plug socket in the hallway. I honestly don't think a kid as young as 5 or 6 fully appreciates that things can kill, and what "dead" really means. My kid got a slap on the legs for that (something that has probably only happened 3-4 times in his life), but as an adult I have to bear the responsibility of it. I was extremely lucky that he was fine, but as his mum I should not allowed him to be in that position. I went out the same day and spent £40 on those caps that go over the sockets and now every single socket in the house has one.

I don't think a kid that young can fully appreciate that "guns can kill", just in the same sense that my 6yr old cannot fully understand "electricity can kill". They mirror the words and the actions you tell them, but they are not repsonsible for themselves. As my kids mum, I take responsibility for not having the sockets covered (I did when they were toddlers but thought they would understand the dangers once a little older). The kids parents in the news story should be the ones taking repsonsibility for what happens. Yes, teach your kids how to use guns if that is your wish. But teach them gun resposibility and don't ASSUME that they will still act as responsible when your back is turned or are not there as kids do not fully understand the dangers, even if they say they do.

Edited by Moon Gazer
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before someone teaches kids to respect guns, he has to teacbh the kid to respect him, the parent, some fail at that, and it goes downhill from there

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