A message from Elevation Church

[Clarakore]

[Arbenol]

Great. But everyone is going to believe that it doesn't apply to them. It must be a message for everybody else!

[Left-Field]

Great. But everyone is going to believe that it doesn't apply to them. It must be a message for everybody else!

haha... I kinda have to agree with this. I couldn't tell if I was the "hater" or not going by the things he said.

I'm an open minded person, but the way he used the words it was as if everyone is a hater - including the dude in the video.

[+and-then]

What I heard from that is the language of intolerance wrapped in rhetoric about love and acceptance. Consider a moment, he was saying he rejects all those who are unwilling to change and accept what the majority accept. Their ideas, opinions and view of morality. So which is it? Does his version of "love" include everyone, or just those who agree with him? Paul tells us in his letter to the Corinthians that satan himself was disguised as an angel of light to deceive. And the ultimate "intolerant" person of all time was... Christ Himself: "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me". For me, hate is the ultimate spiritual issue and where faith and spirituality are concerned, Christ is the ultimate arbiter. It's a simple enough idea. Either one accepts Christ for who He says He is or they reject Him and take His place. But this business of broad brushing everyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon of "universal love" is cowardly imo.

[Clarakore]

Except he is not casting anyone to hell, claiming they will be on the wrong side of the rapture, or that they are with Satan.

That is your view I believe.

[+and-then]

Except he is not casting anyone to hell, claiming they will be on the wrong side of the rapture, or that they are with Satan.

That is your view I believe.

With the exception of me "casting anyone into hell" I'd say that about sums it up old boy... There is truth and it IS absolute and I don't get to decide what it is - but neither do you. Why is that so hard to accept for such a tolerant person as yourself?

[shadowhive]

With the exception of me "casting anyone into hell" I'd say that about sums it up old boy... There is truth and it IS absolute and I don't get to decide what it is - but neither do you. Why is that so hard to accept for such a tolerant person as yourself?

'There is a truth and it IS absolute'. You know what's funny about that? That it's your version of the 'truth'. Anyone of any other religious faith (or denomination of that faith) will claim that their version is the 'truth' and the 'absolute' with just as much certainty as you do. In fact while you'd say they'd follow 'satan' they'd say you follow satan (or whatever such entity is present in their religion) and really, what's the point? It amounts to childish petty name calling and doesn't get us as a species) anywhere, nor does it particularly benefit us by having each religion demonising the believers of every other religion in the name of their version of 'absolute truth'.

The only 'absolute truth' is that we are born, we live and we die. That happens to everyone, independant of religious belief so that is the only true absolute. Religion seems to be a dividing factor, that's used to make the lives of others worse or to demonise them, sometimes under the guise of 'love' but at the end of the day it seems to do more harm than good.

[freetoroam]

The guy in the video appears quite arrogant, his hate for others alleged hate is pretty clear.

[+and-then]

'There is a truth and it IS absolute'. You know what's funny about that? That it's your version of the 'truth'. Anyone of any other religious faith (or denomination of that faith) will claim that their version is the 'truth' and the 'absolute' with just as much certainty as you do. In fact while you'd say they'd follow 'satan' they'd say you follow satan (or whatever such entity is present in their religion) and really, what's the point? It amounts to childish petty name calling and doesn't get us as a species) anywhere, nor does it particularly benefit us by having each religion demonising the believers of every other religion in the name of their version of 'absolute truth'.

The only 'absolute truth' is that we are born, we live and we die. That happens to everyone, independant of religious belief so that is the only true absolute. Religion seems to be a dividing factor, that's used to make the lives of others worse or to demonise them, sometimes under the guise of 'love' but at the end of the day it seems to do more harm than good.

Much truth in this but we are talking about this individual's criterion for being a "hater". Don't you find it the least bit ironic that he is singling out those who stand for a belief system? It might be Christianity but it could just as easily be any Abrahamic faith or even Atheism. It's kind of silly - chest thumping about tolerance and acceptance but offering neither to a dissenter. Edited May 3, 2013 by and then

[Michelle]

The guy in the video appears quite arrogant, his hate for others alleged hate is pretty clear.

I couldn't agree more. What a self-righteous, backward thinking, distorted view he has.

[Gunn]

Name is Steven Furtick, a lead pastor at the Elevation Church.

http://elevationchurch.org/learn-more

(P.S. I don't support or not support it, just providing the info for clarification.)

[J. K.]

I've never cared for that "in-your-face" style approach ministry. (And he almost sounds like he's trying to rap, slowly).

[GoldenWolf]

What a bunch of condescending retardation that video is.

Edited May 3, 2013 by HavocWing

[GoldenWolf]

I've never cared for that "in-your-face" style approach ministry. (And he almost sounds like he's trying to rap, slowly).

He reminded me of how a gang member would be like in front of a camera.

[Clarakore]

Much truth in this but we are talking about this individual's criterion for being a "hater". Don't you find it the least bit ironic that he is singling out those who stand for a belief system? It might be Christianity but it could just as easily be any Abrahamic faith or even Atheism. It's kind of silly - chest thumping about tolerance and acceptance but offering neither to a dissenter.

In no way is he singling out Christianity if that was your insinuation. Many Christians today want to distance themselves from intolerance, which was part of the message in this video.

It is the extremist portion of Chrisitanity, who would tell others they are on the wrong side of the rapture (not all Chrisitans believe in the rapture either) or that they are with Satan for not believing exactly like them, that are being noted for their intolerance.

Pointing out the intolerance of others is in no way an act of intolerance itself. Everyone is accepted and it is only for the intolerant to decide to change. That is the very definiton of religious pluralism, to accept all, even atheists, as fellow human beings.

Many who would take issue with this message might do so because they want a license to continue being intolerant and excluding others. Some take their intolerance beyond theological differences as noted in a couple of the comments from our fellow posters.

While extremist Christians wish to continue their horrible trend of intolerance, who do not help others, who tell their members to distance themselves from the world,

...the Elevation Church is taking a different stance.

One example: two years ago we completed a Code Orange Initiative establishing strategic relationships to eradicate homelessness in Charlotte; invest in our schools, teachers and students in Mecklenburg County; and improve the quality of life for all people in our city. The Initiative includes a goal of 100,000 hours of volunteer service and contributions of $750,000 to our partners. Last year, over 1,000 volunteers signed up to serve as mentors in the Charlotte Mechlenburg school system as tutors. Service actions speak volumes to a watching world.

http://visionroom.co...evation-church/

They not only help others, regardless of the beliefs, they also help their own to help others.

In 2008, Elevation Church made headlines when it gave out $40,000 to members, in envelopes filled with $5, $20, even $1,000, and told them to spend it kindly on others.

http://en.wikipedia....levation_Church

Edited May 3, 2013 by Leave Britney alone!

[Arbenol]

What I heard from that is the language of intolerance wrapped in rhetoric about love and acceptance. Consider a moment, he was saying he rejects all those who are unwilling to change and accept what the majority accept. Their ideas, opinions and view of morality. So which is it? Does his version of "love" include everyone, or just those who agree with him? Paul tells us in his letter to the Corinthians that satan himself was disguised as an angel of light to deceive. And the ultimate "intolerant" person of all time was... Christ Himself: "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me". For me, hate is the ultimate spiritual issue and where faith and spirituality are concerned, Christ is the ultimate arbiter. It's a simple enough idea. Either one accepts Christ for who He says He is or they reject Him and take His place. But this business of broad brushing everyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon of "universal love" is cowardly imo.

Hi, and then

Hope you and yours are all well.

Whilst I'm not likely to agree with you on religion, I like what you have to say here. Tolerance is an absurdly overvalued concept. Taken to extremes, if you preach tolerance, then you need to show tolerance. Tolerance to everything - racism, homophobia, religiously motivated violence, etc.....

Some of the greatest changes in the world were brought about by intolerance and hate for the prevailing ways. Martin Luther King and Gandhi did not show tolerance for what they fought against. They helped change what they hated about their worlds.

[Michelle]

if you preach tolerance, then you need to show tolerance. \

I know I cherry picked this part, but it is what I think is important.

[+Sherapy]

In no way is he singling out Christianity if that was your insinuation. Many Christians today want to distance themselves from intolerance, which was part of the message in this video.

It is the extremist portion of Chrisitanity, who would tell others they are on the wrong side of the rapture (not all Chrisitans believe in the rapture either) or that they are with Satan for not believing exactly like them, that are being noted for their intolerance.

Pointing out the intolerance of others is in no way an act of intolerance itself. Everyone is accepted and it is only for the intolerant to decide to change. That is the very definiton of religious pluralism, to accept all, even atheists, as fellow human beings.

Many who would take issue with this message might do so because they want a license to continue being intolerant and excluding others. Some take their intolerance beyond theological differences as noted in a couple of the comments from our fellow posters.

While extremist Christians wish to continue their horrible trend of intolerance, who do not help others, who tell their members to distance themselves from the world,

...the Elevation Church is taking a different stance.

http://visionroom.co...evation-church/

They not only help others, regardless of the beliefs, they also help their own to help others.

http://en.wikipedia....levation_Church

You have brought in a good point in your post, to announce that you are looking at things in a new way is not intolerance. To suggest another way is not intolerance either. I did not hear this pastor single out anyone in particular. I have learned that tolerance is the commitment one makes to respect human dignity, that tolerance is one that demonstrates a fair/objective attitude in spite of disagreement. I appreciate that the speaker is going for effect, I have been to tolerance training and let me tell you The Museum of Tolerance is powerful in effect, yet they display a fair attitude in their disagreement of propaganda and prejudice, quite frankly that is what I consider when concluding. Just for the record I am an atheist, I think if this church is seeking a newer way one of universal love and inclusiveness-- good for them. Until I observe otherwise--I think from what I have read what they are doing is a good thing.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

Hi, and then

Hope you and yours are all well.

Whilst I'm not likely to agree with you on religion, I like what you have to say here. Tolerance is an absurdly overvalued concept. Taken to extremes, if you preach tolerance, then you need to show tolerance. Tolerance to everything - racism, homophobia, religiously motivated violence, etc.....

Some of the greatest changes in the world were brought about by intolerance and hate for the prevailing ways. Martin Luther King and Gandhi did not show tolerance for what they fought against. They helped change what they hated about their worlds.

Good point,

Indeed Dr. King did voice his concerns for intolerance, " to practice tolerance never means one does not disagree with things or ideas, or ever lends their voice to critiquing what ever the issue is, here is an example from Kings Letter from Birmingham.

"I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

http://www.africa.up...Birmingham.html

Edited May 6, 2013 by Sherapy