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dmgspycat

Genesis and Egypt

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My stupid phone keeps cutting out on me so I can't type that much. this is my 3rd attempt at posting from my phone. I cant elaborate for fear that my phone might cut off again. A few things:

Noah's Ark has been found across from Mount ararat it is so old that the cedar wood it was made from was petrified. Carbon dated to 10000 BC.

Secondly the Hebrews and the hyksos both have the same time line in Egypt. From 1800 BC to about 1200BC. I believe they are the same people so do a lot of researchers based upon language and blood type.

Moses recreated the Hyksos time line to fit over Egypt's more older time line. This is why Hebrew Bible patriarchs live for so long . They didn't really it was just to cover up the 8000 missing years. Noah and Adam were not Hebrew. It is an Egyptian legend not Hebrew and not Hyksos.

Lastly there is so much proof to prove that there was a cataclysm in 10000 BC which matches the carbon dating of the boat across from Mount Ararat. So much evidence of tsunami's of gigantic proportions washing up over the lands 10000 BC . This event is an Egyptian one that has nothing to do with the Epic of Gilgamesh which is a Sumerian legend. Egypt is older than Sumer.

Do you now understand why In the story of Genesis You have the story about ten thousand year old ship then after chapter 9 in Genesis after the flood story, it immediately jumps to the story of Abraham. A man that lived 8000 years later. A man that had nothing to do with Egypt's beginning. My friends real history has been hijacked.

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Posted (edited)

AH Ha you know what? I don't really think that the Hebrews were ever slaves in Egypt, as the bible puts it. I think Moses was more like the founder of the FreeMasons.

Edited by Reann

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Why I think Moses was the last of the Kings that were kicked out, if we read Ralph Ellis we find that Solomon's Temple was not even in Jerusalem at the time. It was near the Nile Delta region. Free masonry claims a connection to King Solomon who I believe discovered some sort of ancient Egyptian knowledge. Where does the Kabbalah come from? When it comes to chemistry knowledge science, it is Egypt that had all of these things first. Whatever Solomon or Moses acquired belonged to Egypt first. Ralph Ellison also point out that King Solomon was a grave robber. King Solomon's Mines for nothing other than king Solomon stolen riches from Egypt. Egypt was ransacked and looted and its history rewritten to suit the victories of the barbarians.

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This is interesting. Do you have any sites or anything that backs up your theory? Could you explain a little more?

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For those of you that want to do more research on Noah's Ark look into a man name Ron Wyatt. a lot of people attack him and try to discredit him concerning his discoveries but it is best that you do your own research . Go to Wyatt's website first to see the evidence.

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This is interesting. Do you have any sites or anything that backs up your theory? Could you explain a little more?

There's no one site with all of this information you just have to approach it as an investigator using many branches of science to form the bigger picture. If you want to know more about real Egypt study Anthony West

Or if you want to get an idea of how old is it is lookup Robert Schoch. If you want a better idea what happened 10000 BC, There's plenty of evidence to support a world wide catastrophe. For example there is a city in Cadiz Spain It is now under 30 feet of mud and we now know it was wiped out by a tsunami 10000 BC. So much tsunami evidence from this time exists especially in Alaska. if you want more geology check this out and the 19 sixties Woods Hole Oceanographic took core samples of the Mid Atlantic Ridge and found that that land was above sea level 10000 BC and earlier. I'm not exactly saying that it was Atlantis. just pointing out that many lands sank during this time. Or we can try paleontology and Florida there's the Windmere bog mummies. 10000 BC Florida was a different land it was higher above sea level and these people who lived there were not Indians and they wore exquisitely embroidered clothing. You see the sciences allow you to paint a bigger picture of what life was really like that long ago

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For those of you that want to do more research on Noah's Ark look into a man name Ron Wyatt. a lot of people attack him and try to discredit him concerning his discoveries but it is best that you do your own research . Go to Wyatt's website first to see the evidence.

Okay! I will definitely check that out.

The only thing I could really find was this, on the Hyksos being the Hebrews:

http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/joseph.htm

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I also forgot to mention Legends. Legends like Platos account of early Egypt. Plato's flood happens around 9600 BC. Which agrees with geology. Also check out the Egyptian historian Manetho.

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If you want to do more research on the Hyksos then check out author Ralph Ellis.

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I also forgot to mention Legends. Legends like Platos account of early Egypt. Plato's flood happens around 9600 BC. Which agrees with geology. Also check out the Egyptian historian Manetho.

If you want to do more research on the Hyksos then check out author Ralph Ellis.

I will definitely be looking in to this! Thanks.

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It is also worth mentioning that this kind of information Is old news But it is not accepted by mainstream science or the major religions. What is because paleontologist refuse to admit anything but a Clovis culture That long ago they posit we were a bunch of caveman hunter-gatherers . In a way they are right after a great flood like that we all started over. Also religious authorities have an axe to grind because if you discount Moses and Abraham as they are not who they say they are, and Judaism Christianity and Islam have no basis. These religious authorities would have you believe the earth is only 5000 BC old when there are ancient cities under ocean water 12000 years old. You be the judge.

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Posted (edited)

Why is this in the 'Conspiracies' section and not 'Alternative History'?

Edit: Nevermind. I'll report this thread and help get it moved. You might get more traffic if it's in the right forum.

Edited by Likely Guy
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My stupid phone keeps cutting out on me so I can't type that much. this is my 3rd attempt at posting from my phone. I cant elaborate for fear that my phone might cut off again. A few things:

Noah's Ark has been found across from Mount ararat it is so old that the cedar wood it was made from was petrified. Carbon dated to 10000 BC.

Secondly the Hebrews and the hyksos both have the same time line in Egypt. From 1800 BC to about 1200BC. I believe they are the same people so do a lot of researchers based upon language and blood type.

Moses recreated the Hyksos time line to fit over Egypt's more older time line. This is why Hebrew Bible patriarchs live for so long . They didn't really it was just to cover up the 8000 missing years. Noah and Adam were not Hebrew. It is an Egyptian legend not Hebrew and not Hyksos.

Lastly there is so much proof to prove that there was a cataclysm in 10000 BC which matches the carbon dating of the boat across from Mount Ararat. So much evidence of tsunami's of gigantic proportions washing up over the lands 10000 BC . This event is an Egyptian one that has nothing to do with the Epic of Gilgamesh which is a Sumerian legend. Egypt is older than Sumer.

Do you now understand why In the story of Genesis You have the story about ten thousand year old ship then after chapter 9 in Genesis after the flood story, it immediately jumps to the story of Abraham. A man that lived 8000 years later. A man that had nothing to do with Egypt's beginning. My friends real history has been hijacked.

Noah's Ark has not been found.

Here's an interesting little podcast that looks at the possibility of Noah's Ark from a naval engineering perspective and, in my opinion, makes it pretty clear that it never existed. Especially interesting is the part about how much wood a craft of that size would have taken to build.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4279

The long and the short of it — no pun intended — is that there's no precedent for a wooden ship the size of Noah's Ark being seaworthy, and plenty of naval engineering experience telling us that it wouldn't be expected to work. Even if pumps had been installed and all hands worked round the clock pumping, the Ark certainly would have leaked catastrophically, filled with water, and capsized.

You can read the transcript or listen to the podcast at the above link.

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I think raftermans post is devoid of merit. Who wants to listen to a stupid naval engineer rant about his opinions based on opinions...I think Americans have this syndrome where they can't believe evidence in front of them, speaking of Ron Wyatt's discovery and carbon dated evidence, they need to be told what to believe by 'proper' authorities. So I'm supposed to dismiss real evidence and instead embrace an opinion based on what...

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Noah's Ark has been found across from Mount ararat it is so old that the cedar wood it was made from was petrified. Carbon dated to 10000 BC.

Two things, firstly I think it takes longer then 12,000 years for petrification to occur.

Secondly, the Ark hasn't been found. It's been RUMOURED to have been found. Rumours that have all and every time turned out to be dust on the wind.

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I think raftermans post is devoid of merit. Who wants to listen to a stupid naval engineer rant about his opinions based on opinions...I think Americans have this syndrome where they can't believe evidence in front of them, speaking of Ron Wyatt's discovery and carbon dated evidence, they need to be told what to believe by 'proper' authorities. So I'm supposed to dismiss real evidence and instead embrace an opinion based on what...

What real evidence are you dismissing?

If it was impossible for the Ark materials to be gathered and be built and that there was no way in hell that the vessel could be seaworthy, then that somewhat blows a bit of a hole in the "they found it" argument, doesn't it.

Not to mention, the utter and complete rediculousness of the whole 2 by 2 thing and, frankly, the entire story itself. Anyone with even a minimal ability for critical thinking should be able to see that.

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What real evidence are you dismissing?

If it was impossible for the Ark materials to be gathered and be built and that there was no way in hell that the vessel could be seaworthy, then that somewhat blows a bit of a hole in the "they found it" argument, doesn't it.

Not to mention, the utter and complete rediculousness of the whole 2 by 2 thing and, frankly, the entire story itself. Anyone with even a minimal ability for critical thinking should be able to see that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uUjin6MA-k

What make's You think that people in those days could NOT build a seaworthy vessel, while there have been various other archaeological evidence that suggest's they were more advanced than we realise, or care to admit

I think that it is a very high probability that what the late Ron Wyatt discovered/investigated is the Ark of Noah

It is in the right area (on the mountain range of Ararat) and it is the right size

Most people read it as the Ark resting on the actual mountain of Ararat, for some reason, even though Genesis 8:4 states Mountain's

Genesis 8:4...

"4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat."

There is various other information and Archaeological evidence that suggest's the various other stories in the Bible and of Noah's Ark is true...

.

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Why is this in the 'Conspiracies' section and not 'Alternative History'?

Edit: Nevermind. I'll report this thread and help get it moved. You might get more traffic if it's in the right forum.

I was also wondering why this was in the CT section and not some other section of the site....

.

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Secondly the Hebrews and the hyksos both have the same time line in Egypt. From 1800 BC to about 1200BC.

Really? so Ahmose did not defeat them in approximately 1550 BC? Where is the historical record, not fantasy stories mostly about "Moses", to show an identifiable Hyksos presence in Egypt for, as you contend, a further 350 years after they were expelled. As for the earliest historical record of the existance of Hebrews, well, they were not Hyksos, that is simply wishful thinking not backed up by any real research. This attempt to have clearly identifyable Hebrews in the 18th Dynasty has been hit on the head time and again, not least on this forum. As for the other elements of your contention, well, I am sure there are plenty here too dismantle such ideas.

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Posted (edited)

Evidence that Canaanites/Israelites lived in Goshen, Egypt ?

Although I have not watched the video fully, it does seem interesting

.

Edited by Jackofalltrades

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My stupid phone keeps cutting out on me so I can't type that much. this is my 3rd attempt at posting from my phone. I cant elaborate for fear that my phone might cut off again. A few things:

Noah's Ark has been found across from Mount ararat it is so old that the cedar wood it was made from was petrified. Carbon dated to 10000 BC.

Secondly the Hebrews and the hyksos both have the same time line in Egypt. From 1800 BC to about 1200BC. I believe they are the same people so do a lot of researchers based upon language and blood type.

Moses recreated the Hyksos time line to fit over Egypt's more older time line. This is why Hebrew Bible patriarchs live for so long . They didn't really it was just to cover up the 8000 missing years. Noah and Adam were not Hebrew. It is an Egyptian legend not Hebrew and not Hyksos.

Lastly there is so much proof to prove that there was a cataclysm in 10000 BC which matches the carbon dating of the boat across from Mount Ararat. So much evidence of tsunami's of gigantic proportions washing up over the lands 10000 BC . This event is an Egyptian one that has nothing to do with the Epic of Gilgamesh which is a Sumerian legend. Egypt is older than Sumer.

Do you now understand why In the story of Genesis You have the story about ten thousand year old ship then after chapter 9 in Genesis after the flood story, it immediately jumps to the story of Abraham. A man that lived 8000 years later. A man that had nothing to do with Egypt's beginning. My friends real history has been hijacked.

Since the Hyksos were expelled by the Egyptians by Ahmose I c.1550 BC and the earliest mention of the Israelites per the Merneptah Stela dates to c.1208 BC as a tribe who were defeated by Egypt the no, they weren't one and the same. The only thing they have in common is that they were Canaanite/Semitic in origin. And what 'blood type' are you claiming links the two?

Moses did a poor job of calculating the chronology then as the given chronology, per the Bible, only takes one back to the 4th millenium BC. Also, the Egyptians had no legend of a Great Flood.

Actually there's not while there actually IS evidence of the destruction of Lake Agassiz-Ojibway c.6470 BC, the Storegga Slide/destruction of Doggerland c.6200 BC, the Black Sea flood c.7400 BC, the flooding of the Persian Gulf after c.14,000 BP (12,000 BC) and the marine transgression of the Persian Gulf into southern Iraq c.4000 - 3000 BC. None of which validates a story of the 'Great Flood' as an event that happened 10,000 BC.

Again, the Egyptians had no Great Flood story.

There is no story of a 10,000 year old ship. Per the Bible's own chronology there is only the story of a c.4100-4200 year old ship/event. Which is nowhere in evidence in the Middle East.

cormac

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Posted (edited)

I think raftermans post is devoid of merit. Who wants to listen to a stupid naval engineer rant about his opinions based on opinions...I think Americans have this syndrome where they can't believe evidence in front of them, speaking of Ron Wyatt's discovery and carbon dated evidence, they need to be told what to believe by 'proper' authorities. So I'm supposed to dismiss real evidence and instead embrace an opinion based on what...

Your first mistake is in assuming the Bible is some sort of historical document. It's not. It's religious fiction, and like all religious fiction, its purpose is in making its audience believe in a very specific form of god, and the various good things that happen to the people who subscribe to that view and the bad things that happen to people who don't. Any 'historical' details are therefore verisimililitude -- the same way the Golden Gate Bridge is shown in future San Fransisco in Star Trek.

And if you think you have any (actual, physical) evidence to overturn this reading, I urge you to share it, rather than making an argument based on a /huge/ statement of general character.

What make's You think that people in those days could NOT build a seaworthy vessel, while there have been various other archaeological evidence that suggest's they were more advanced than we realise, or care to admit.

The problem with believing in Noah's Ark is /not/ the idea people could not build a seaworthy vessel out of gopherwood, and it's either hopelessly naive or stupidly disingenuous to suggest it is. The problem lies with suggesting all mankind is descended from eight people, that the entire world was covered with water and that all life on it now descended from two or fourteen individuals. Or that one ship could fit one of every species, for that matter.

Why don't you provide some actual evidence for your statements, too -- or are we just supposed to take your genius in historical interpreatation for granted and believe anything you say?

I think that it is a very high probability that what the late Ron Wyatt discovered/investigated is the Ark of Noah

It is in the right area (on the mountain range of Ararat) and it is the right size

Most people read it as the Ark resting on the actual mountain of Ararat, for some reason, even though Genesis 8:4 states Mountain's

Genesis 8:4...

"4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat."

Great, that's one fictional object found. How's about joining me on my upcoming Expedition to Find Hogwarts? Or possibly the Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS?

There is various other information and Archaeological evidence that suggest's the various other stories in the Bible and of Noah's Ark is true...

Really? Why don't you share and let us all discuss it? Or are we back to just trusting your archaeological genius?

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph
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My reply is in Blue....

The problem with believing in Noah's Ark is /not/ the idea people could not build a seaworthy vessel out of gopherwood, and it's either hopelessly naive or stupidly disingenuous to suggest it is. The problem lies with suggesting all mankind is descended from eight people, that the entire world was covered with water and that all life on it now descended from two or fourteen individuals. Or that one ship could fit one of every species, for that matter.

My reply was to Rafterman, who seems to think that "it was impossible for the Ark materials to be gathered and be built and that there was no way in hell that the vessel could be seaworthy"

So, You was saying ?

Why don't you provide some actual evidence for your statements, too -- or are we just supposed to take your genius in historical interpreatation for granted and believe anything you say?

Why dont You take a look at the videos that I posted ?

IF You want to believe anything that I say, then feel free to, but I dont expect You to, unless of course You want to buy this UFO that I recently found...

How about You read everything, and in context before posting (what seem's like) sarcastic remark's

.

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Posted (edited)

My reply was to Rafterman, who seems to think that "it was impossible for the Ark materials to be gathered and be built and that there was no way in hell that the vessel could be seaworthy"

Fair enough point. I interpreted your statements incorrectly and did not pay attentiont to the context provided. I was wrong. I apologise.

However, my error aside, you still haven't provided any proof for your allegation for any general level of sophistication in an ancient civilisation, any specific evidence for advanced proto-Hebrew (I guess) ship-building or literal reality of a Biblical text. You could start with telling exactly what gopherwood is, since centuries of Biblical archaeology hasn't been able to arrive at a clear consensus. Seems like a good place to start.

So, You was saying ? [sic]

Why dont You take a look at the videos that I posted ?

Because in general, I don't watch Youtube videos. The level of what I have seen varies from risible to pathetic, the sourcing and citation is sketchy at best (so whatever information is presented is not reliable), and I find people who are unable to break down and repeat arguments they see have seen in Youtube clips on their own here to be poor discussion partners. I find that there's a crucial difference between the mindless repetition of Youtube/internet "documentaries" and understanding material on its own terms enough to actually debate a point.

IF You want to believe anything that I say, then feel free to, but I dont expect You to, unless of course You want to buy this UFO that I recently found...

Only if it's a tall, blue, wooden box with "Public Call" written on it. Then we'll talk.

How about You read everything, and in context before posting (what seem's like) sarcastic remark's

Fair enough, but how about being prepared to defend the material you discuss on your own?

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph
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Moses did a poor job of calculating the chronology then as the given chronology, per the Bible, only takes one back to the 4th millenium BC. Also, the Egyptians had no legend of a Great Flood.

How could they? They were all killed in the Great Flood! Don't you read your Bible? God killed everyone on the planet including everyone in Egypt.

Don't listen to these eggheads blather on about the ancient history of Egypt or any other countries. They can't be right. If they were right then that would mean that the Bible isn't historically accurate.

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