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Kowalski

'Culture war' more than gun rights

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No, not foreign invaders. Americans think they will need their guns to defend their own homes from an overreaching Federal Government.

That's the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

Funny isn't it? Americans calling their land home even though it was not theirs to begin with, it was stolen and conquered, after the war of Independence the Americans should have gave half of America back to the natives and areas that are or were controlled by the Americans and the Europeans.

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Doesn't matter if gun manufactures or gun owners, it is the basic thought that our 2nd amendment is under attack by Liberals who uses a front of death and misery to propose their agenda upon the victims, basically telling them what to say and what to do to make them feel safe. Like Benjamin Franklin once said, "Who shall give up their liberty for small safety devices deserve neither safety or liberty."

Benjamin Franklin got it right! That statement is very true.

Their were many reasons the Founding Fathers put the Second Amendment in the Constitution. One main thing was they believed all men had certain rights, and one of these was the right to defend your home and family from a tyrannical government, invasion, or just plain self defense.

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Funny isn't it? Americans calling their land home even though it was not theirs to begin with, it was stolen and conquered, after the war of Independence the Americans should have gave half of America back to the natives and areas that are or were controlled by the Americans and the Europeans.

Yawn - right after you give Germany ALL of its land back, Britain back to the Celts, etc... history is dead and done. We're living in the present, not the past. ;)

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There is freedom of speech and then there is mass making violent killing machines and making them readily at hand to be in the hands of children and unstable people...

We already HAVE laws that keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable and children....

Just goes to show you most anti-gunners have NO IDEA what gun laws we already have on the books.

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We already HAVE laws that keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable and children....

Just goes to show you most anti-gunners have NO IDEA what gun laws we already have on the books.

Unfortunately, we don't--or not in a way that makes any sense. Did you know the guy who killed five people at the Cafe Racer coffee shop (then himself) in Seattle last fall had a LONG history mental illness? Documented with 72 hour observational holdings and medications for his issue, but he was never committed. All his guns were all legally owned an registered to him. He also had several arrests (but no convictions) for violence. His family tried their hardest to have his guns taken away from him. They tried so hard that when interviewed after the tragedy, all they could say was "We aren't suprised this happened. We tried to get his firearms taken away and get him commited to a facility for his mental illness but the current laws wouldn't allow it. All we could do was sit back and wait for something like this to happen" That's pretty horrible. I know people who shouldn't own guns due to their mental condition or chemical dependancies, I'm just waiting for another tragedy.There's nothing anyone can do about it under the current laws.

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"Fighters for freedom", is an unrealistic position since it is doubtful these wannabe revolutionaries can out match a professional military force equipped with UAVs.

Not that I think an armed uprising is likely to ever happen in the USA, have you not paid attention to some of the wars our countries have been involved in the past 12 years or so? Last time I checked, a militarily disadvantaged band of "terrorists" have kept a war going for 12 years using guerilla tactics... What exactly does Al-CIAda and the Taliban have that normal Americans can't get their hands on?

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Unfortunately, we don't--or not in a way that makes any sense. Did you know the guy who killed five people at the Cafe Racer coffee shop (then himself) in Seattle last fall had a LONG history mental illness? Documented with 72 hour observational holdings and medications for his issue, but he was never committed. All his guns were all legally owned an registered to him. He also had several arrests (but no convictions) for violence. His family tried their hardest to have his guns taken away from him. They tried so hard that when interviewed after the tragedy, all they could say was "We aren't suprised this happened. We tried to get his firearms taken away and get him commited to a facility for his mental illness but the current laws wouldn't allow it. All we could do was sit back and wait for something like this to happen" That's pretty horrible. I know people who shouldn't own guns due to their mental condition or chemical dependancies, I'm just waiting for another tragedy.There's nothing anyone can do about it under the current laws.

I'm very sorry to hear that. Those types of situations are a no win situation.

But, I'm curious as to what, exactly you are saying we should do about that. I mean, I have read that over 27 MILLION Americans are on anti-depressants, and I can't remember the exact number of Americans that have sought out medical help for depression or anxiety issues, but it's up there. Many, MANY of these people are not crazy, just depressed or anxious. They get on medication and then their fine. But if we start saying, "If you have pyschiatric conditions, you can't own a gun" well, that's not right. I feel if we start doing this, many medical conditions such as depression and anxiety will go unreported for fear that the government will take their guns away just for seeking medical attention. I mean, you don't say a cancer patient shouldn't own a gun. Why is depression any different? It's just a chemical imbalance that can be corrected with medicine.

I'm NOT saying their aren't some real crazies out there, there are. And NO they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. But, if a law abiding citizen, who is on anti-depressants, owns a handgun and shotgun for protection, they shouldn't have their guns taken away OR not be able to buy a gun. It is their second amendment right to protect themself or their family.

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I'm very sorry to hear that. Those types of situations are a no win situation.

But, I'm curious as to what, exactly you are saying we should do about that. I mean, I have read that over 27 MILLION Americans are on anti-depressants, and I can't remember the exact number of Americans that have sought out medical help for depression or anxiety issues, but it's up there. Many, MANY of these people are not crazy, just depressed or anxious. They get on medication and then their fine. But if we start saying, "If you have pyschiatric conditions, you can't own a gun" well, that's not right. I feel if we start doing this, many medical conditions such as depression and anxiety will go unreported for fear that the government will take their guns away just for seeking medical attention. I mean, you don't say a cancer patient shouldn't own a gun. Why is depression any different? It's just a chemical imbalance that can be corrected with medicine.

I'm NOT saying their aren't some real crazies out there, there are. And NO they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. But, if a law abiding citizen, who is on anti-depressants, owns a handgun and shotgun for protection, they shouldn't have their guns taken away OR not be able to buy a gun. It is their second amendment right to protect themself or their family.

Our problem is not that some people skip a beat in their brain, the problem is that only California disarms people who have gone off the far side.

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Posted (edited)

Not that I think an armed uprising is likely to ever happen in the USA, have you not paid attention to some of the wars our countries have been involved in the past 12 years or so? Last time I checked, a militarily disadvantaged band of "terrorists" have kept a war going for 12 years using guerilla tactics... What exactly does Al-CIAda and the Taliban have that normal Americans can't get their hands on?

Experience and a spirit of fighting colonialism stretching back beyond the British including pushing the Russians out and now most likely our own coalition, a general history of armed factionalism, CIA training going back decades, the ability to live in and conduct operations in rugged terrain (e.g., the Khyber Pass) which a mass American population would be unable to sustain themselves in, a leaner society not dependant or accustomed to watching television, playing video games, or driving cars all day, the strong draw of willing, international, and seasoned guerilla fighters who believe in their cause of driving the foreigner out of their corner of the hemisphere, and proven know-how in fundraising including soliciting funds from our very own government to distribute money to the very forces we are supposed to be fighting in order to keep the roads clear for our troops and supply convoys.

Even with more money and training our boys and girls cannot completely conquer theirs, only education and a strong willingness from within their own society for change can defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan.

We have kickstarted that but only they can finish it. School girls who have died and been attacked in their struggle to go to school have done more in this regard than everything we have thrown in there.

In America the political divide seems to be between urban-rural sentiments and values and one could hardly imagine the countryside coming up in arms against our cities, in fact most of the those who conspire against our government plan to escape the cities to go into the wilds but no mass American population could in reality sustain themselves there.

Imagine our wannabe revolutionaries hiding in the Grand Canyon, or our mountains, whrere there is no base such as villages or crops, compared to Afghanis inhabiting the same areas from which they operate from going back millennia. Air strikes would devastate any makeshift camps.

Who will train the militia here? A couple of disgruntled veterans?

Who will come to their rescue, willing to die, from other lands? No one.

Who will fund them? While we in the city, who are happy with our progress, who do not want to live in the wilds full time, if push came to shove will be funded and trained by corporations and our military, respectively, to form our own countervolutionary forces including the use of drones and command of our interstate systems, taking advantage of well fortified and established military bases, and we, the American people, have a strong will to eliminate any factions wanting to pull apart our democracy.

Only a few want to take us back to the '50s (1850s that is) to some right-wing extremist vision of utopia.

We also won't have to worry about terrorism since most right-wing extremists claim they would never use terrorism against our own people and the few who have tried made no impact a la McVeigh. That is one tool that could be semi-effective but imagine Dittoheads or Alex Jones' fans as suicide bombers, won't happen. They would rather listen to AM radio or scour the internet to become riled up, all in the comfort of their own homes and businesses which they are not likely to abandon.

What we have here gentlemen and gentlewomen is a small group who yells loud, so loud, and surrounds themselves with their discontent, that they beleive the rest of America actually shares their extremist views. Most right-wingers are not extremists and would not choose armed rebellion regardless of the rhetoric from a few. They will turn against the extremists in a New York minute.

We have nothing to worry about, progress will continue, the democracy will live on, the majority do not want another way based on right-wing extremist ideology.

World stability is only increasing on a more grand level.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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Posted (edited)

Which exactly why I said "not likely". You failed to mention anything Americans don't have access to in your paragraph. All you explained is reasons why there is armed conflict in Afghanistan and why there is not in America (yet). Those reason were cultural and historical, not material. Hence, its not likely to ever occur in America, but not impossible, like I said... It seems like you're just obsessed with sounding smart, instead of actually reading the posts you are responding too...

Edited by Glorfindel
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Posted (edited)

double post

Edited by Glorfindel

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Posted (edited)

Gah... My bad again.

Edited by Glorfindel

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Posted (edited)

No worries and I agree it is unlikely but not impossible. Still that is not something I desire, an insurgency here is not something anyone should desire, it would bring us more harm collectively and is not cost effective in bringing political change just because we disagree with the current administration.

In time a Republican will be reelected and our ballot box will prove its value over rhetoric calling for "second amendment remedies" which seem fanciful at best but ill-advised overall.

I believe we all sound like exactly who we are and are just offering opinions. Mine is directed toward the topic and not you personally.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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Yawn...another troll... :passifier:

Yawn..another troll... :yes:

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The NRA does not support gun manufacturers they support the MILLIONS of gun owning citizens in this country!

hahahahahahahhaha

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Doesn't matter if gun manufactures or gun owners, it is the basic thought that our 2nd amendment is under attack by Liberals who uses a front of death and misery to propose their agenda upon the victims, basically telling them what to say and what to do to make them feel safe. Like Benjamin Franklin once said, "Who shall give up their liberty for small safety devices deserve neither safety or liberty."

Yea, you're right. I believe every 'merican should be given a gun as soon as they are born. In fact It should be compulsory.

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We already HAVE laws that keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable and children....

Just goes to show you most anti-gunners have NO IDEA what gun laws we already have on the books.

Yea but your gun laws don't WORK do they.

lol... you will say they do but they don't lets get on the merry go round!

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I'm very sorry to hear that. Those types of situations are a no win situation.

But, I'm curious as to what, exactly you are saying we should do about that. I mean, I have read that over 27 MILLION Americans are on anti-depressants, and I can't remember the exact number of Americans that have sought out medical help for depression or anxiety issues, but it's up there. Many, MANY of these people are not crazy, just depressed or anxious. They get on medication and then their fine. But if we start saying, "If you have pyschiatric conditions, you can't own a gun" well, that's not right. I feel if we start doing this, many medical conditions such as depression and anxiety will go unreported for fear that the government will take their guns away just for seeking medical attention. I mean, you don't say a cancer patient shouldn't own a gun. Why is depression any different? It's just a chemical imbalance that can be corrected with medicine.

I'm NOT saying their aren't some real crazies out there, there are. And NO they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. But, if a law abiding citizen, who is on anti-depressants, owns a handgun and shotgun for protection, they shouldn't have their guns taken away OR not be able to buy a gun. It is their second amendment right to protect themself or their family.

Er....well here's an idea.....how about taking their guns away. Long shot, but it just might work. :hmm:

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Odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home. Add depression or other mental health issues and I'd imagine that would only add to those odds.

Those suffering should surrender/sale their firearms for the safety of their family. It is the prudent thing to do.

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Yea but your gun laws don't WORK do they.

lol... you will say they do but they don't lets get on the merry go round!

The might work if they were enforced! What is the point in making news laws that likewise won't be enforced?

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Odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home. Add depression or other mental health issues and I'd imagine that would only add to those odds.

Those suffering should surrender/sale their firearms for the safety of their family. It is the prudent thing to do.

You've never dealt with anyone that is truly mentally ill have you?

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The line of "if we only enforced our laws" and all would be better seems hollowly echoed. It is likely those repeating it are sincere but misguided.

We cannot legislate or enforce the problem when the gun lobby is after life profits and keep flooding our civilian markets and population.

Flood any society with guns and they will begin to be used in ways not acceptable to that society in the end.

That the gun manufacturers began pumping semi-autos and sporting arms in the 1980s into our market at the same time the spike in gun violence began is no surprise.

Previous to the arming of society most gun owners and police forces relied on the revolver.

With more killing power being introduced there will be more victims. The lone wolf wanting to unleash on society would think twice with a revolver but with 20+ and 50 round clips we are seeing the results.

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Posted (edited)

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to have a grasp on supply and demand either. If you think people in the US magically started collecting guns in the 80's and this is the reason for the sudden increase in killings you are sadly mistaken.

Edited by Michelle
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So you support the NRA that EVERYONE needs a gun? the NRA does not care what you think nor your rights, it only cares about itself and its rights. A company or organisation only cares about itself and no one else. A right is what your choice is, what you do not someone else to choose it for you

Aren't you the smart guy who thought the NRA was all for profit, when they are a non-profit organization?

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Odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home. Add depression or other mental health issues and I'd imagine that would only add to those odds.

Those suffering should surrender/sale their firearms for the safety of their family. It is the prudent thing to do.

Where do you get that statistic from? Most false B.S. post I've seen in a while.

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