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Kowalski

'Culture war' more than gun rights

139 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Why would you assume our military would side with tyranny? They took a oath to defend the constitution against ALL enemies.

That is only a radicalized right-wing narrative and while many soldiers are right-wing extremists, many are not.

Many soldiers and LEOs, most in fact, are not Oath Keepers. Most right-wing soldiers and LEOs are not Oath Keepers. It is rather a non-mainstream approach.

The radical right-wing does not have a monopoly on defenders of the Constitution nor on how to define tyranny.

I have read an Oath Keeper refer to themselves as heroes. No one really has a right to self-declare themselves as heroes.

Oath Keepers plan to march, armed, into DC this July. They are going to raise their profile, one even hopes to be arrested, as to make a court case over the Second Amendment. The SCOTUS might not agree with their version of militia.

It will be interesting if they actually make it to their planned rally. The couple of test runs this year seem to have been in their favor.

One tried getting a city council to pass some law. They declined and said they would wait for the courts to decide. I doubt there is any court case.

Others wore 3% patches and were made to remove them by their department.

Their fantasies to arrest politicians seems childish.

The oath they take has a few components. To focus just on one and ignore the others reveals difficulty with formulas.

Three have already been arrested but the Oath Keepers claim they are not real Oath Keepers. One was kicked out two days before his arrest. One is doing time. Two did despicable crimes involving minors that have nothing to do with their political anti-government views.

No need to mention those crimes here. Anyone googling can discover on their own.

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This is what I think about soldiers and the pact they have with us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HTIuVPNr-I

Many soldiers are heroes but would never call themselves that.

I trust my government and our military even if I often disagree with our politicians' decisions including foreign policy. There are plenty of times I agree too. Our military has nothing to do with that and the best soldiers leave politics behind when wearing the uniform.

These old values are lost among some misguided soldiers but live on in many others. We all have veterans in our families going back several wars. Friends and co-workers too.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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With one in three households in the US owning guns, if you go by the polls, there should be people dropping like flies left and right. Then of course there are all of the illegal guns in houses where they would not give an honest answer.

Yep

(CNN) -- Gun-related homicides and crime are "strikingly" down from 20 years ago, despite the American public's belief that firearm crime is on the upswing, a new study said Wednesday.

Looking back 50 years, a Pew Research Center study found U.S. gun homicides rose in the 1960s, gained in the 1970s, peaked in the 1980s and the early 1990s, and then plunged and leveled out the past 20 years.

"Despite national attention to the issue of firearm violence, most Americans are unaware that gun crime is lower today than it was two decades ago," the researchers say.

A Pew survey of Americans in March found 56% believed gun-related crime is higher than 20 years ago and only 12% said it's lower. The survey said 26% believed it stayed the same and 6% didn't know.

bttn_close.gif

130501215620-pmt-ben-ferguson-grill-guns-00010413-story-body.jpg<a class="cnnvideo_clicklink" href="http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/08/us/study-gun-homicide#" title="Click to watch this video">

130501215620-pmt-ben-ferguson-grill-guns-00010413-story-body.jpgFerguson: Irresponsible humans, not guns

Chicago's record murder rate: Don't blame guns alone

The new study found U.S. firearm homicides peaked in 1993 at 7.0 deaths per 100,000 people. But by 2010, the rate was 49% lower, and firearm-related violence -- assaults, robberies, sex crimes -- was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993, the study found.

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Posted (edited)

Violent crime has been down for a while. Anyone looking at the stats last year from the FBI would have seen the same.

The issue now is not over violent crime in general or even crimes involving firearms but mass shootings. Mass shootings is what the public focus is on.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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That is only a radicalized right-wing narrative and while many soldiers are right-wing extremists, many are not.

The US military donated more money to Ron Paul in 08 and 12 then to all other's running combined. I feel just fine about where our members of the military side on the subject of freedom. And what is it with you people and your over use of the words radical, or extremists? Im a extremist for believeing its possible our military will keep thier oaths? Even DHS has returning vets as the #1 "terror threat"

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Violent crime has been down for a while. Anyone looking at the stats last year from the FBI would have seen the same.

The issue now is not over violent crime in general or even crimes involving firearms but mass shootings. Mass shootings is what the public focus is on.

If they take a few million of these kids off drugs where the lable says it could make you kill yourself, we will quickly see a steady decline in that as well.

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Posted (edited)

The US military donated more money to Ron Paul in 08 and 12 then to all other's running combined. I feel just fine about where our members of the military side on the subject of freedom. And what is it with you people and your over use of the words radical, or extremists? Im a extremist for believeing its possible our military will keep thier oaths? Even DHS has returning vets as the #1 "terror threat"

Believing you are going to square off with our federal government using arms is extremist. Oath Keepers have been radicalized.

It is noted that they are radicalized because a vast majority of they right are not. Many conservatives are sensible and don't envision or are preparing for domestic violence. They are partners in our federalist form of government.

It is ironic that 3 days after 9-11 the Congress handed over power to wage war to the President and it is still in effect.

That is not constitutional. Yet a few radicalized soldiers believe they are defenders of the Constitution but they also take orders, that is part of the oath too.

It is ironic that our wars might not be constitutional at all but only the courts can decide what is or not constitutional.

Not me or you even if I feel this is not.

Spc. Michael New who refused to wear the UN beret or take orders from a foreign commander was radicalized but at least his actions are respectable. He never promoted raising arms against our federalist government.

Still all other soldiers will join a peace keeping force if it is required again and report to a foreign commander.

Our government is not going to confiscate weapons. Believing so seems odd to more than half of us in America.

But if anyone raises arms against us, our country, or our government, we have many laws to handle them. If serious enough Section Three, Article Three has a term for that.

No one who is aware is expecting that to happen or for Oath Keepers to rise to that level. There are other concerns.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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How quickly you forget Katrina with the looting and killings that happened during a major disaster in New Orleans.

which actually proves my point rather than yours. They were dependent on each other for help. Lone independent wolfs - died.

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Posted (edited)

Believing you are going to square off with our federal government using arms is extremist. Oath Keepers have been radicalized.

It is noted that they are radicalized because a vast majority of they right are not. Many conservatives are sensible and don't envision or are preparing for domestic violence. They are partners in our federalist form of government.

First, Im not talking about "a square off" with the federal governmnet. I talking about should the day come when the fed decides to come for us. Big difference. There is not a single real conservative that is in partnership with the Fed. Thats like saying there are true christians in a pact with the devil. Nor does the fed see any real conservatives as partners. In fact they have labled every single one of us as terrorists.

It is ironic that 3 days after 9-11 the Congress handed over power to wage war to the President and it is still in effect.

It isnt ironic at all. Its criminal. It proves beyond any doubt that folks like yourself live in a false paradigm. There is no left or right once to climb the top of that ladder. There is only the bank.

That is not constitutional. Yet a few radicalized soldiers believe they are defenders of the Constitution but they also take orders, that is part of the oath too.

There are alot of people who take the oath seriously. They arent all soldiers. But the ones who are have drawn thier line in the sand.

It is ironic that our wars might not be constitutional at all but only the courts can decide what is or not constitutional.

Not me or you even if I feel this is not.

So when the constitution directly says only congress can declare war, you are so dumb that you need a court to clarify that for you?

Our government is not going to confiscate weapons. Believing so seems odd to more than half of us in America.

88% of Americans believe gun violence has gone up over the last 20 years. The way things are, dont always line up what Americans believe. They are already unconstitutionaly disarming vets as we speak.

But if anyone raises arms against us, our country, or our government, we have many laws to handle them. If serious enough Section Three, Article Three has a term for that.

No one who is aware is expecting that to happen or for Oath Keepers to rise to that level. There are other concerns.

Nor am I expecting it to happen. In fact once enough people wake up these people will run like the cowards they are. And more people wake up by the day.

Edited by preacherman76
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are all your "facts" wrong? http://thinkprogress...ilitary-donors/

ChartMilitary.jpg

Of course I meant while Paul was actualy still in the race. After the media lied about the first few states we won, and had to drop out, of course the donations switched. During his run, he was blowing them all outta the water. In fact even your chart here is very impressive considering he was only in the running for a few weeks, and still came in third to the two guys who ran full presidencial campaigns.

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The US military donated more money to Ron Paul in 08 and 12 then to all other's running combined. I feel just fine about where our members of the military side on the subject of freedom. And what is it with you people and your over use of the words radical, or extremists? Im a extremist for believeing its possible our military will keep thier oaths? Even DHS has returning vets as the #1 "terror threat"

I got to tell you, I have family members in the military, and my sister served as a medic in Iraq. I got to tell you, the government treats our military and their families horribly. It is sad and disgusting to think that these people have SERVED their country, yet the government keeps cutting back on their benefits, and services. (Yet, the government wants to give illegals free healthcare....)

There is a lot of discontent among the military because of this. If you think the military is gonna side with the same government who keeps cutting back on them and their families pay and medical then you are delusional. Most of the military DID NOT vote for Obama. They knew he would cut back on their benefits. And what did he do after he got re-elected? Cut back on their benefits...

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Posted (edited)

which actually proves my point rather than yours. They were dependent on each other for help. Lone independent wolfs - died.

no it doesn't, it proves you wrong. as usual.

tell that to those that guarded their houses\buissneses with guns in their hands, and still alive. becouse they were armed,

armed gangs just went someplace else, to loot unarmed houses and buissneses. no matter how many guns looters had, they didn't wanna get shot at. so just the fact that ppl we armed was enough.

Edited by aztek
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Posted (edited)

are all your "facts" wrong? http://thinkprogress...ilitary-donors/

ChartMilitary.jpg

Excellent fact checking. Sadly some will not go by facts but their own misinformed opinion because that is what is in circulation among their social circles.

First, Im not talking about "a square off" with the federal governmnet. I talking about should the day come when the fed decides to come for us. Big difference.

No one is discussing the conspiracy theories of "a day when the feds come for us" except for those who believe in them.

They are not coming for me. Maybe they will go after those who are planning to engage in combat with our own government?

There is not a single real conservative that is in partnership with the Fed. Thats like saying there are true christians in a pact with the devil. Nor does the fed see any real conservatives as partners.

Of course, you bring up Christians, and that is the same way some fundamentalists look to the Bible and claim only their interpretation is valid and that they then have the self-administered authority to decide who is a Chrisitan or not...

...the radicalized right-wing Oath Keepers and others, who share belief in the same conspiracy theories, have also attempted to claim authority of defining who is or not a conservative.

It is actually the conservatives of all stripes, who self-identify with conservatism, who share in the task of defining what conservatism is.

Most of them do not agree with these extremist views. Instead they prefer the rule of law as the rest of us do.

In fact they have labled every single one of us as terrorists.

Those with designs of domestic conflict and of engaging our federal government in combat are indeed radicalized extremists.

When they actually begin to plan more solid actions, as some already have, and cross the lines, they will be treated as criminals.

It isnt ironic at all. Its criminal.

It is ironic that a few misguided soldiers who think of themselves as special, and different, as Oath Keepers, who would never violate the Constitution, have already particpated in unconstituonal wars.

Did they refuse and risk court martial? Either their beliefs are warped that they do not see the unconstitutionality of what they participate in or their ethics are so weak that they are going against the very principles they claim to have. It seems their oaths (as they understand them which in no way reflect the actual oaths) are not being taken seriously

(Notice: it is their beliefs and ethics which are attacked, not them personally.)

The majority of our soldiers are heroes, they are not boggled down in these conspiracy theories, and among them, the ones who claim to be conservatives are conservatives.

It proves beyond any doubt that folks like yourself live in a false paradigm. There is no left or right once to climb the top of that ladder. There is only the bank.

There are alot of people who take the oath seriously. They arent all soldiers. But the ones who are have drawn thier line in the sand.

There is no line in the sand except for those who have an "us vs them" mindset. Whatever line they have drawn in their minds they should take caution not to cross the already existing lines of legality that the rest of us recognize, the majority of us who have respect for the rule of law, which includes all three branches of our government, our law enforcement apparatus, among other appendages.

They are the ones who protect us from extremists who fantasize over bloodshed in America.

So when the constitution directly says only congress can declare war, you are so dumb that you need a court to clarify that for you?

Would love to clarify but only wish you would have questioned the intelligence of groups and platforms and not me personally. Unfortunately this conversation has come to its premature conclusion.

Have a blessed day. There is much to be grateful for.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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Have you ever heard of this disorder? It makes me laugh actually that psychiatrists consider this a disorder:

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a childhood disorder described by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) as an ongoing pattern of anger-guided disobedience, hostility, and defiant behavior toward authority figures which goes beyond the bounds

Check out:http://en.wikipedia....efiant_disorder

I'm not surprised. Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder until 1975. OCD is usually only dangerous if you get in the way of the vacuum. lol

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