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bee

Citizen Hearing on Disclosure

229 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Excellent points Bee - and I'll gladly believe someone like an Edgar Mitchell. With all his connections and personal observations over the years, his personal credibility factor vs the naysayers and their usual dribble - "ah no way, ya gotta prove this, ya gotta prove that" kinda crap - is off the scale.

Plus, I don't think any visitors are likely to leave easy to find calling cards around, and if they did, well you can sure as hell bet the gov't boys are uber eager to scoop those items up for purposes of containment, analysis, and if deemed valuable from a defense standpoint or technology advancement - replication of.

Nobody asked anyone to prove anything, all that was requested is that Dr Mitchell be directly quoted, and not embellished and made up. That is what Bee does, she takes his words and makes up her own interpretation. Dr Mitchell states over and again he has no first hand knowledge, and that NASA is completely uninvolved with the Alien question, and that he had no alien experiences in space. I have provided these quotes, Bee does not believe Edgar Mitchell, she thinks there is something "between the lines that only she can see.

I agree with NASA, Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions.

If you have more guts than Bee, then I invite you to look at the thread whereby Quillius, whom you might note is an ETH proponent, not a skeptic like myself was the primary source of information proving that Dr Mitchell not only knows absolutely nothing about ET, but that his sources are not even recognised by the UFOlogists like Friedman and are extraordinarily dubious including Bob Lazar and Glenn Dennis.

Quite frankly, looking at your response, it would appear you did not read any post other than Bee's limited interpretations. The woman who thinks the US developed a Death Ray and shot down the Roswell saucer. You see, the more whacky a claim the more Bee likes it, and that is what I take offence to her silly little games, as they lead less knowledgable people like yourself very much astray. She is much smarter than she makes out you know, this dumb blonde thing is really wearing thin.

LINK - If you have more guts than Bee does to face the music.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that anyone can learn more about the Roswell incident right here at UM in threads than you could if you learned every single snippet that Dr Mitchell knows about the incident in total, in fact, I reckon even Dr Mitchell could find a surprise or two about the incident here that he still is not aware of.

Edited by psyche101

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Belief is fine, I guess..... For some people.

Me, I would like to know if any of this is real. And for that extraordinary scientific peer reviewed evidence is needed.

So far I havent seen any.

I am not even seeing evidence of an ability to clearly read English over the last few posts! How the heck these people think Dr Mitchell's claims equate to alien proof beggars belief. All I see is evidence of an education system in need of repair.

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Nobody asked anyone to prove anything, all that was requested is that Dr Mitchell be directly quoted, and not embellished and made up. That is what Bee does, she takes his words and makes up her own interpretation. Dr Mitchell states over and again he has no first hand knowledge, and that NASA is completely uninvolved with the Alien question, and that he had no alien experiences in space. I have provided these quotes, Bee does not believe Edgar Mitchell, she thinks there is something "between the lines that only she can see.

I agree with NASA, Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions.

If you have more guts than Bee, then I invite you to look at the thread whereby Quillius, whom you might note is an ETH proponent, not a skeptic like myself was the primary source of information proving that Dr Mitchell not only knows absolutely nothing about ET, but that his sources are not even recognised by the UFOlogists like Friedman and are extraordinarily dubious including Bob Lazar and Glenn Dennis.

Quite frankly, looking at your response, it would appear you did not read any post other than Bee's limited interpretations. The woman who thinks the US developed a Death Ray and shot down the Roswell saucer. You see, the more whacky a claim the more Bee likes it, and that is what I take offence to her silly little games, as they lead less knowledgable people like yourself very much astray. She is much smarter than she makes out you know, this dumb blonde thing is really wearing thin.

LINK - If you have more guts than Bee does to face the music.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that anyone can learn more about the Roswell incident right here at UM in threads than you could if you learned every single snippet that Dr Mitchell knows about the incident in total, in fact, I reckon even Dr Mitchell could find a surprise or two about the incident here that he still is not aware of.

Ah, look, Mr Skeptic, I have stated before that i believe 95% of all the UFO crap that is thrown out there is just that - crap. So get it straight and don't try to bait me into something else. As far as Edgar Mitchell goes - and others with first hand knowledge - they have some bona fide credibility, and I will listen to what he/they have to say.

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Posted (edited)

Ah, look, Mr Skeptic, I have stated before that i believe 95% of all the UFO crap that is thrown out there is just that - crap. So get it straight and don't try to bait me into something else. As far as Edgar Mitchell goes - and others with first hand knowledge - they have some bona fide credibility, and I will listen to what he/they have to say.

Mr. believer, I am not baiting you into anything, I am pointing out Dr Mitchell's actual words. Do you believe Edgar Mitchell when he says:

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will. --Edgar Mitchell

See what Dr. Mitchell himself states about his own firsthand knowledge?

If you lack the fortitude to follow the provided link to the provided information, and prefer to make up you own interpretations such as Bee opted to do, then I will continue to point out that you too are misquoting the man only to achieve your own personal agenda.

Only 95%?

Edited by psyche101
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Posted (edited)

Mr. believer, I am not baiting you into anything, I am pointing out Dr Mitchell's actual words. Do you believe Edgar Mitchell when he says:

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will. --Edgar Mitchell

See what Dr. Mitchell himself states about his own firsthand knowledge?

If you lack the fortitude to follow the provided link to the provided information, and prefer to make up you own interpretations such as Bee opted to do, then I will continue to point out that you too are misquoting the man only to achieve your own personal agenda.

Only 95%?

I'm just pointing out the obvious here, but you seem to almost ridicule those who believe in the UFO/ET phenomena. Can't we all believe as we choose to? I get that you want someone to give direct proof and you don't believe in most of what is posted. Which is admirable. However, you cannot dismiss the whole field of Ufology just because no one has given "the smoking gun" or direct proof. There have been admitted hoaxes and those cases do make it harder for the others to be taken seriously. There have been ALOT of people in the last 100 years or so alone giving us their stories to convince even the most hardened skeptic that this is real and something is going on that governments don't want to share their knowledge on. Now what that is, is open to debate. But there have been cases where trace evidence, sightings, and unexplained elements are left giving us the clear impression that this is quite real. So are all of these people simply crazy? Or are they simple recounting what they honestly saw and reported? Skeptics often want to say it is a case of crazies trying to get attention and while some are guilty of doing it for personal gain, not all of these people are.

Back to Edgar Mitchell again? Wow, you cannot let that go can you? Is that an obsession or something? That you are such a skeptic that you'll ridicule anyone for anything and go to extremes to be right all the time? That is sad really and typical of skeptics looking down their noses on believers.

Edited by conspiracy buff

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Posted (edited)

I'm just pointing out the obvious here, but you seem to almost ridicule those who believe in the UFO/ET phenomena. Can't we all believe as we choose to? I get that you want someone to give direct proof and you don't believe in most of what is posted. Which is admirable. However, you cannot dismiss the whole field of Ufology just because no one has given "the smoking gun" or direct proof.

Belief is fine, everyone is entitled to their own belief nobody is entitled to their own proof.

What I want is not to be taken as a fool, and that is what people like Bee and Zoser try to do to me. Take me for some fool that will believe something that I know is not true.

I want to share what I know, and I hope to learn from others, andI do, just never from an ETH'er, the only real lessons I have learned here have come from those that are generally deemed to be "skeptics" whom I personally refer to as "critical thinkers".

There have been admitted hoaxes and those cases do make it harder for the others to be taken seriously.

Yes there is, but I am not really bothered with the comic relief side of the ETH, which be pretty much anything you read on a UFOlogy website.

The stuff I want to learn does not come from some crackpot who claims to have had babies with aliens. Such is indeed, beneath me, take that as arrogant if you will, I have no time for time wasters. It is why you rarely see me in personal experience threads or the reports and sightings section of this very forum. If that is how people want to entertain themselves, so be it, I have other options to explore.

There have been ALOT of people in the last 100 years or so alone giving us their stories to convince even the most hardened skeptic that this is real and something is going on that governments don't want to share their knowledge on.

Indeed, but I do not want to be convinced with tales. I think if you cannot prove it, don't make stuff up, just keep your mouth shut. I have always said I feel there are two types of believer, and I am not interested in the hysterical ones. You have the Hawkings, The Sagans, the Fremis, the Dysons, the Drakes, then you have the Friedman's, the Lazars, the Adamskis' the Goodchilds.

From what I can see, one lot has a clue, one lot wishes they had a clue, so they make stuff up to seem important, and to the gullible they do seem important. I am not one of the gullible.

Now what that is, is open to debate.

Yes, not conclusion, It seems painfully obvious to me that such a wide ranging phenomena with so many descriptions is more than likely to also have a range of answers. From what I see, ET has not even legally made the table, some credulous zealots shoehorned him into position is all.

But there have been cases where trace evidence, sightings, and unexplained elements are left giving us the clear impression that this is quite real.

Real, but not by any means or lengths alien, and that is not as hard to determine as some make out.

So are all of these people simply crazy? Or are they simple recounting what they honestly saw and reported?

Some are crazy, some want attention some sought it, some just made it up to be cool, and some enjoy taking advantage of others. Some are simple misidentification, some are things I am sure that have not been catalogued yet. But without these things ever actually going into space, and considering that vastenss of space, what we have does not seem to be spaceships at all so then yes, the remaining tiny percentage (0.05%?) that create very wild stories and insist they are true are crazy or lying. Like the woman how has orgasmic experiences and travels the entire solar system in a night with her alien lovers. She is lying. Or crazy. No two ways about it. Why kid ourselves? So we do not hurt someones feelings??

Skeptics often want to say it is a case of crazies trying to get attention and while some are guilty of doing it for personal gain, not all of these people are.

No, that is right, I agree with that, but sometimes it is not crazy, or a simple mistake, sometimes it is a nefarious angle. There are far too many varied reasons to discount man as the common denominator here.

Back to Edgar Mitchell again? Wow, you cannot let that go can you? Is that an obsession or something? That you are such a skeptic that you'll ridicule anyone for anything and go to extremes to be right all the time?

I am not the one who got all up in arms, nor the one to bring Dr Mitchell into the conversation if you go back through the thread for a look. All I am doing is calling out the people who are lying about his actual words and posting his statements. Why do you object to that?

That is sad really and typical of skeptics looking down their noses on believers.

Zoser said "Throw your textbooks away, your intuition is all you need. The Academics have done nothing but lie to you all along."

Bee outright lied when she some of Dr Mitchell's "First Hand Knowledge" all I had to do was quote the man where he himself says "I have no firsthand knowledge"

And you think it is unwarranted still? What would you do if a skeptic gave you advice of that calibre?

Edited by psyche101
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(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.

--Edgar Mitchell

.....in the very quote you give...Mitchell says....when talking about Roswell, that his only claim to knowledge of the events...ie Roswell...

"............is from individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they

saw and now believe it should be made public......."

Admiral Wilson wasn't there and didn't see anything because.....

http://en.wikipedia....homas_R._Wilson

Thomas Ray Wilson was born on March 4, 1946 in Columbus, Ohio, and raised in the small community of Groveport, Ohio.

Then ask him.

In other words - a made up source. No names, no places, nothing, just assurances. Edgar Mitchell know about as much about the Roswell Incident as you do. Which is the medias version of events.

and here is you calling Edgar Mitchell a liar and accusing him of making up sources....tut tut

Go ahead and prove it is not Admiral WIlson.

The quote from you at the top of this post proves it was not Admiral Wilson....

Its anyone's guess why you are being so obtuse and stubborn about it....

But I doubt even your own quote will satisfy the master of spin ....

The mere mention of Edgar Mitchell sends you off on one....and you go into spam mode... :lol:

[media=]

[/media]

.

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Mr. believer, I am not baiting you into anything, I am pointing out Dr Mitchell's actual words. Do you believe Edgar Mitchell when he says:

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will. --Edgar Mitchell

See what Dr. Mitchell himself states about his own firsthand knowledge?

If you lack the fortitude to follow the provided link to the provided information, and prefer to make up you own interpretations such as Bee opted to do, then I will continue to point out that you too are misquoting the man only to achieve your own personal agenda.

Only 95%?

I have absolutely no problem with that statement. It's all the others relative to Roswell he's made that I find quite intriguing.

Ah, "fortitude" you say? This from the guy that refuses to "YouTube"??

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Excellent points Bee - and I'll gladly believe someone like an Edgar Mitchell. With all his connections and personal observations over the years, his personal credibility factor vs the naysayers and their usual dribble - "ah no way, ya gotta prove this, ya gotta prove that" kinda crap - is off the scale.

cheers Scudbuster......

I've said it before and I'll say it again....EM would not go public in the way he has unless he was sure of his facts...

Psyche is indulging some sort of uber-sceptic fantasy when it comes to EM....but he isn't fooling anyone...

Back to Edgar Mitchell again? Wow, you cannot let that go can you? Is that an obsession or something? That you are such a skeptic that you'll ridicule anyone for anything and go to extremes to be right all the time? That is sad really and typical of skeptics looking down their noses on believers.

:tu:

.

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I have absolutely no problem with that statement. It's all the others relative to Roswell he's made that I find quite intriguing.

Ah, "fortitude" you say? This from the guy that refuses to "YouTube"??

only when it suits him....:)

Refusing to YouTube is like refusing to go into a library because you don't agree with what EVERY book says...

.

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, The woman who thinks the US developed a Death Ray and shot down the Roswell saucer. You see, the more whacky a claim the more Bee likes it,

When a Senior Research Scientist from Lockheed Martin Skunk Works says what he says about Roswell...

what he has been told by 'a very dear friend'..a navy doctor....then I think it is worthy of serious consideration...

Although I personally think Bushman probably had more to corroborate this info...but he can't speak about

any more (re Roswell) because of legal restrictions re. secrecy oaths..

He is obviously a very clever man....

http://www.patentgen...wisvilleTX.html

(bit about Roswell starts at 2:22)

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NylZw7U95UU[/media]

feel free to post that podcast that you usually drag out at this point...erroneously believing it backs your uber-sceptic fantasy point of view...

I haven't listened to it for a while...

:geek:

.

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Auh ! The Old Gravity bit again ? Everybody knows theres no Gravity ! The Earth Sucks !

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yay it's our old friend Bob again! :)

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Posted (edited)

.....in the very quote you give...Mitchell says....when talking about Roswell, that his only claim to knowledge of the events...ie Roswell...

"............is from individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they

saw and now believe it should be made public......."

Admiral Wilson wasn't there and didn't see anything because.....

http://en.wikipedia....homas_R._Wilson

Hi Bee

I am bored of you now, so I will just spell it out for you OK?

Remember when you got your panties in a twist over this?

easy.....

Edgar Mitchell's actual words....

http://blog.blogtalk...ecord-straight/

note...'some of the old timers from THAT PERIOD, some locals AND OTHERS MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE, who were under

rather severe oaths......'

Now not the English, which I refuse to accept you struggle with as much as you make out.

See how it says:

old timers from that period

Understand? old timers are the time reference? Now lets move along shall we.

AND OTHERS, do you under stand that is ANOTHER situation? The "And Others" Bit? Get it now? Read slower.

Se we have locals from the time frame AND others, military and intelligence. I see Quillius could not watch you bumble along any further so he handed you the intelligence person, on a platter. That being Jesse Marcel. Not we get the the AND OTHERS Military part of the statement, who were remember now:

Under severe oaths.

Remember having your knickers in a twist over that ambiguous statement.

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell has revealed to me what he believes

is the reason that Admiral Wilson is now denying what he

previously said.

He refers me to an article in Jane's Defence Weekly entitled

"Pentagon's Hidden Budget" by defense analyst Bill Sweetman

in which he discusses Special Access Programs in great

detail.

www.janes.com...

Dr Mitchell points to a quote from that article:

"An unacknowledged SAP - a black program - is a program

which is considered so sensitive that the fact of its existence is a

'core secret', defined in USAF regulations as 'any item, progress,

strategy or element of information, the compromise of which

would result in unrecoverable failure'. In other words, revealing

the existence of a black program would undermine its military

value."

Dr Mitchell told me: "The UFO program that the admiral

sought would be in this category. Thus by law he would be required to

deny the existence of such a program. For a core secret SAP, even a

"no comment" would be a breach of security."

Breach of security = breaking severe oath, and a military man.

Is that plain and simply enough for you? I am bored of placing hints right under your nose and giving you links to the answer, obviously I have to even cut and paste it for you. Good God woman.

and here is you calling Edgar Mitchell a liar and accusing him of making up sources....tut tut

No I did not, I said his source was a made up source, I.E anonymous and impossible to trace. No good to anybody. And I said he knows the media version of events. Do you deny that? What are his sources of information, and what does the media contrived ETH use for their story as sources?

Any halfwit moron can work out that headlines sell paper's, not descriptions of mundane events. So they tend to flock to outrageous claimants for shock value, which in turn sells papers. Why just yesterday I noted a paper indicating that they think these guys have a screw loose as well. I have given links that prove papers embellish UFO tales on purpose. And what sources do Edgar Mitchell and the papers have in common? Bob Lazar, Glenn Dennis, The Marcels, etc etc. and the does the paper's fictional version come from? Bob Lazar, Glenn Dennis, The Marcels, etc etc.

So it seem only fair to bundle the two together.

The quote from you at the top of this post proves it was not Admiral Wilson....

Its anyone's guess why you are being so obtuse and stubborn about it....

No it does not, all you have proven is that you did not read the posts, you did not consider the provided information, you did not clink on any provided link and you are not going to accept the truth if it shows Dr Mitchell's claims to be somewhat dubious - at best.

But I doubt even your own quote will satisfy the master of spin ....

You did not even bother to read that in full I take it from your convoluted response.

The mere mention of Edgar Mitchell sends you off on one....and you go into spam mode... :lol:

I do not know why for you it is "correction" but when I post it is "spam" I think your just a cantankerous old cow who cannot let go of an idea once she has placed her faith in it no matter what evidence is placed before you.

Edited by psyche101

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Posted (edited)

I have absolutely no problem with that statement. It's all the others relative to Roswell he's made that I find quite intriguing.

So if he has no first hand knowledge, how does him believing some zealous Roswell proponents change things? It is another he has no personal of first hand knowledge. All his information comes form other sources, and due to Edgars standing, that is why other UFOlogists like the lacklustre Friedman went to try and further what Ed had already told everyone.

LB: So the interview has been a little misquoted. But you actually have information about the Roswell incident?

EM: Yes and my information comes from what I call “the old timers,” because I grew up in the Roswell area and when I went to the moon, some of the old timers from that period, some locals, and others military and intelligence people, who were under rather severe oaths to not reveal any of this and kind of wanted to get their conscience clear and off their chests before they passed on, selected me and said, independently – this wasn’t a group effort – independently that maybe I might be a safe person to tell their story to. And all of them confirmed, and what I’m saying is they confirmed the Roswell incident was a real incident and they in some way had some part in it that they wanted to talk about.

Ah, "fortitude" you say? This from the guy that refuses to "YouTube"??

Yes indeed, I find it convoluted and I prefer text. Particularly with regards to factual information as that makes it easier to verify. Most of the information we are talking about comes form the 50's when everything was in text. Is asking you to respect my wishes too much for an allegedly open minded person is it?

Edited by psyche101

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only when it suits him.... :)

Refusing to YouTube is like refusing to go into a library because you don't agree with what EVERY book says...

.

Yes it is, I prefer to go to a bookstore and buy the book I need without looking at billions of others. It's more efficient and accurate and cuts down on time wasting.

How dare I ask people to respect my wishes? If they are not in line with yours, you view them as "wrong" do you?

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When a Senior Research Scientist from Lockheed Martin Skunk Works says what he says about Roswell...

what he has been told by 'a very dear friend'..a navy doctor....then I think it is worthy of serious consideration...

Well, I do not. What does it offer? Nothing more than a reason to speculate. In other words, pure rubbish. How about if I told you my neighbours uncles brothers wife's sister in law's fathers uncle was at Roswell and was in charge of an Intelligence Operation that made up the Roswell ET connection? What if I assure you we was much higher than any source you have spoken to?

No ET, so you wont consider it, but if I changed the conclusion to ET from ET rumour, you would be 100% on board.

Although I personally think Bushman probably had more to corroborate this info...but he can't speak about

any more (re Roswell) because of legal restrictions re. secrecy oaths..

He worked at Lockheed, not the Government, at best he may have had to sign an NDA at some point.

As for knowing more, you are just making that up to convince yourself and any ETH'er that may be lurking.

He is obviously a very clever man....

http://www.patentgen...wisvilleTX.html

So was Uri Geller.

All this does is make his lies about ani gravity more perplexing. And they are fabrications. As is his demonstration with the Celt. The smarter one is, the easier it is to suck in the gullible.

(bit about Roswell starts at 2:22)

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NylZw7U95UU[/media]

No thanks. Got text?

When I see him doing his stupid anti grav experiment, using Lenz's Law, not anti gravity, I cannot help but feel an instant dislike for this old snake oil salesman.

feel free to post that podcast that you usually drag out at this point...erroneously believing it backs your uber-sceptic fantasy point of view...

I haven't listened to it for a while...

:geek:

You have not bothered with any other link I left, why waste my time?

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---------------------------------------------------

H+: Can you give us a little better idea about who these people were?

EM: Well, for instance, one was the undertaker who was asked to provide coffins for the small bodies. Another was one of the people who were working traffic control out near the site when they decided to fence it off. According to these people, they had all been shushed immediately following the incident. They were told by the Air Force not to talk about it. In many cases… told so with some kind of severe threat attached.

One of the people who talked to me in particular was a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel, the first person on the site of the Roswell crash. He confirmed to me that… yes, at the time, it was a real incident. I’ve also met Jesse’s son in recent years, Jesse Marcel Jr. He explains how his father brought home some of the pieces from the crash to show him and his mother before taking them to the base.

who was the Major that spoke to Edgar? I would think that this is one of the 'intellgence/military people he was talking about.

http://hplusmagazine...edgar-mitchell/

Se we have locals from the time frame AND others, military and intelligence. I see Quillius could not watch you bumble along any further so he handed you the intelligence person, on a platter. That being Jesse Marcel.

Wrong again..... see what quillius quoted above....

....." One of the people who talked to me in particular was.a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel...."

So that wasn't Jesse Marcel, was it? It was another Major...

Another of your uber-sceptic fantasies bites the dust...... :hmm:

[media=]

[/media]

.

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Ohhh for Petes sakes.

....." One of the people who talked to me in particular was.a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel...."

How do you know that contact was military? Marcel was military intelligence, did you know that? A smart man like Dr. MItchell would make such an obvious distinction surely?

He had several sources, Wilson was one he had considered, or rather guessed to be under oath. As I have mentioned, he also got Roswell information from Bob Lazar, Glenn Dennis, and some cattle ranchers. What we do not have is a trusted source, but Marcel, Wilson, some old mates, and a handful of genuine crackpots.

I will see if I can find a list pf personell fro the base at the time, I suspect that will be something if a challenge, so any help any UM member can offer would be appreciated. Lets just see whom and who many Majors were "there at the time" if we can shall we?

Are you trying to say some anonymous person gave Edgar the goods that has not shown up next to all of his other contacts, and that you somehow figure that this anonymous contact which you have speculated is of higher caliber than any other contact, such as other known contacts like Glenn Dennis or Bob Lazar who HAVE been exposed, managed to inform Edgar MItchell only about the validity of Roswell Aliens, and even though he never showed Edgar any of this, only spoke of it, you still think it is somehow "proof" do you? I gotta give it to you, you are more hopeful than anyone I have seen, even more than me fishing. And that's almost embarrassing.

If so, what on earth do you hope to achieve with such an inane proposal of ambiguities? And what of the names already exposed that are of anything but sound character which you avoid specifically?? Are you seriously attempting to provide your imagination as fact?

And are you trying to say Admiral Wilson is not one of the people Edgar Mitchell refers to in his broad description of sources in the provided interviews?

Here, have a read of this email. I doubt I can help you plasma cut those blinkers you have off, but it should keep you quiet for ten minutes and give you something to speculate about. Try to keep the term "Oaths" in the back of what I laughingly refer to as a mind.

From: visions [mailto:XXXXXXXX@XXXXXXX]

Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:38 AM

To: Giuliano Marinkovic

Cc: Richard Dolan; Billy Cox

Subject: Mitchell speaks out about Wilson's denial

Hi Giuliano, Billy and Richard

The below info was put together from emails between myself

and Mitchell.

nip>

Hope you can make use of it and spread it around the web

Many thanks

Dave Haith (UK)

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell has revealed to me what he believes

is the reason that Admiral Wilson is now denying what he

previously said.

He refers me to an article in Jane's Defence Weekly entitled

"Pentagon's Hidden Budget" by defense analyst Bill Sweetman

in which he discusses Special Access Programs in great

detail.

www.janes.com...

Dr Mitchell points to a quote from that article:

"An unacknowledged SAP - a black program - is a program

which is considered so sensitive that the fact of its existence is a

'core secret', defined in USAF regulations as 'any item, progress,

strategy or element of information, the compromise of which

would result in unrecoverable failure'. In other words, revealing

the existence of a black program would undermine its military

value."

Dr Mitchell told me: "The UFO program that the admiral

sought would be in this category. Thus by law he would be required to

deny the existence of such a program. For a core secret SAP, even a

"no comment" would be a breach of security."

Dr Mitchell believes that the Billy Cox blog above, together

with the Jane's article "tells it all".

He writes: "They somewhat go together and validate the

entire episode."

He adds: "This SAP designation is the reason it is so

difficult to get any truthful information to the public.

NO INFORMATION is exempt from containment"

I understand Dr Mitchell has no wish to fan any flames of

conflict between he and Admiral Wilson who is, as he put it, "caught

in the political security rules dilemma as is anyone with inside

knowledge whether they like it or not."

Dr Mitchell has given full permission for me to post his

comments. "The more people and media get to see this, the sooner we

can break open the alien visitation issue."

Dave Haith

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not too sure if Admiral Wilson is included in one of the 'contacts' that said things to Mitchell.

I say this simply based on the fact that in the following:

edgar:

He recruited me and another naval commander, Will Miller, who also lives here in Florida, to come to a conference in Washington DC. There, we spoke and explained our stories and said that we believed this was real. The three of us, with both Naval officers, were able to get to the Pentagon and get a meeting with the Chairman of the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. We told our respective stories of what we knew about UFOs and the cover-up. “This is what we know. Will you confirm anything for us?” And the Admiral said, “I don’t know about this, but I should know, and I will find out and get back to you.” Well, he never got back to me personally. But he did get back to Dr. Greer, and essentially said, “Yes. What you’re saying is true. I know where the black budget money is dispersed from within the Pentagon.”

Greer told Commander Miller, who called me and said, “Yes, Greer heard from the admiral, and he’s confirmed that there was an office in the Pentagon funding all of this.” Subsequently, another contact of mine, who must also remain nameless because he’s on classified programs, encountered the Admiral in Las Vegas, where he had been looking for and trying to get into the so-called “strategic access program” around the UFO incident and had been denied

The fact that the Admiral never actually confirmed or said anything directly to Mitchell makes it somewhat 'fragile' IMO. It is not even second hand but third hand i.e. Wilson tells Greer, Greer tells Miller and then Miller tells Edgar, So I think it can go either way as to whether Edgar includes him in his 'contacts' list. I guess the fact that another contact then spoke to Mitchell regarding the Admiral may strengthen it a little. However we are left second guessing as to whether Mitchell includes him or not.

The other Major he mentions is definitely an interesting avenue to persue, but I have had no luck finding out who it is yet. I will keep looking, and maybe narrowing it down as per Psyches suggestion maybe the best way.

To confirm to date we have the following confirmed:

Glenn Dennis

Major Jesse Marcel

Marcel jr

Greer

Traffic controller (no name)

unknown Major

unknown contact that spoke about Wilson.

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couple of possibles for the Major

Major Jack Comstock

Major Jesse B Johnson

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....." One of the people who talked to me in particular was.a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel...."

that's what EM said...

And are you trying to say Admiral Wilson is not one of the people Edgar Mitchell refers to in his broad description of sources in the provided interviews?

I'm saying Wilson was not one of EM's sources that gave him info about Roswell... he's the wrong age and didn't live or serve in the area in 1947.

He was only one year old at the time.

I don't know what you are trying to argue anymore.... that EM had no reliable sources?

that EM was duped? That EM went public without being sure of his facts?

More often than not...your posts are too long and rambling and the point you are trying to make just gets lost in the blah blah blah.

.

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couple of possibles for the Major

Major Jack Comstock

Major Jesse B Johnson

Hey Quill...... I expect you have seen this before....but I'll put it anyway

http://kevinrandle.b...imball-and.html

He also presents some facts about what Don Schmitt and I wrote about the crash, the alleged autopsy in the base hospital, and Jesse Johnson who was assigned as one of the doctors in 1947. Kimball wrote:

1. There was a physician named Jesse B. Johnson assigned to the Base Hospital. However, he was a 1st Lt., not a Major, and he was a radiologist, not a pathologist. He had no training as a pathologist and would have been the last member of the medical staff to have performed any autopsy on a human much less an alien. He is identified as a 1st Lt. in the 509th Yearbook.

2. After I learned of these assertions, I called Doctor Jack Comstock (seen at the left), who, as a Major, was the Hospital Commander in 1947, and in 1995 was living in retirement in Boulder, Colorado. I asked him if he recalled any such events occurring in July of 1947 and he said absolutely not. When I told him that Jesse B. was supposed to have conducted a preliminary autopsy on alien bodies, he had a hard time stopping laughing - his response was: PREPOSTEROUS!!

Kimball also takes us, meaning Schmitt and me, and Stan Friedman and Don Berliner, to task for identifying a two story brick building as the base hospital. Well, according to Glenn Dennis it was, and according to documentation, it was. The problem is that it was not built until after 1947, and that might give us a clue about what Kimball could have seen. In 1947, the base hospital was made up of a number of different, one story buildings clustered together in an nice neat, military formation. In other words, you could work in one building and not know what was happening in the others. That we all got this wrong is true, but it’s not as if we invented the information for the sake of the story.

If Major Jack Comstock was under oath to keep quiet...it's no surprise that he made denials....

I don't think an 'alien' autopsy would have been done at Roswell...

But that doesn't mean to say that the hospital didn't have a roll in housing any bodies or live Beings until they could be moved to

somewhere else more suitable......and secret....???

.

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Hey Quill...... I expect you have seen this before....but I'll put it anyway

http://kevinrandle.b...imball-and.html

If Major Jack Comstock was under oath to keep quiet...it's no surprise that he made denials....

I don't think an 'alien' autopsy would have been done at Roswell...

But that doesn't mean to say that the hospital didn't have a roll in housing any bodies or live Beings until they could be moved to

somewhere else more suitable......and secret....???

.

Hi Bee,

yes I had seen that blog. I avoided posting the (potential) debunk of the Majors until we could find out if either one was who Edgar had spoken with....or is there any other Major that is a suspect????

thanks though...

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this could be relevant as I have seen this November date spoken about in a few places.....

The unit returned to Roswell November 17, 1947 as the 509th Bombardment Wing and resumed a norman training regimen for the next two years. The wing’s mission expanded in July 1948 when it received the 509th Air Refueling Squadron and its KB-29M, a modified B-29 that provided air-to-air refueling for bombers thus giving the wing the ability to reach nearly any point on earth.

http://www.wafbmuseum.org/history-of-walker-air-force-base/509th-composite-group/

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