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Waspie_Dwarf

Why People Believe in Conspiracy Theories

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they doctored it so that it looked as if the enemy forces were smaller than they were? What devious machiavellian purpose was that intended to serve? Doctoring evidence so that the enemy looks stronger than they are is a common tactic (see: G.W. Bush), but cunning plan was behind this? :unsure2:

Its to allay the anti war lobby back home by giving 'good numbers of success in the war against communism'

A Vet recommended me the read, I still browse the pages now and then,

google Westmoreland v. CBS libel case for the public version of the events.

wiki link

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they doctored it so that it looked as if the enemy forces were smaller than they were? What devious machiavellian purpose was that intended to serve? Doctoring evidence so that the enemy looks stronger than they are is a common tactic (see: G.W. Bush), but cunning plan was behind this? :unsure2:

The idea was that if they could show success in the body count department, they could claim that their strategy and tactics were successful. If they could argue that the enemy forces were smaller, they could by deception claim that their efforts were successful.

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The idea was that if they could show success in the body count department, they could claim that their strategy and tactics were successful. If they could argue that the enemy forces were smaller, they could by deception claim that their efforts were successful.

So it would look like they'd killed a larger proportion of the enemy than they actually had. Machiavellian.

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So it would look like they'd killed a larger proportion of the enemy than they actually had. Machiavellian.

...with a twist of Orwellian! :tu:

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what's that that they say about history repeating itself ?

those that says it time and time again had no idea ...

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Heck, my brother believes that Israel attacked the Liberty by accident! Yes, people can have strange views.

The only way that could have been by accident would be ... hmmm ... actually, I can't think of a way.

Conspiracy theories are becoming so common and so quick to flame up because of several things. Firstly, at any given time about 70% of the people are constantly on the internet, hooked into an information system, and they interact. Plus, so many events are filmed today so there is a visual record to examine.

Hmmm ... I'm having a problem with that 70% figure but I do know a considerable number are. The fact that a huge amount of video and other media material is available makes a conspiracy harder to hide although the Benghazi affair managed to slip past all that. At the same time, though, a few are pretty well off in left field somewhere. Aliens responsible for Hurricane Katrina? Give me a break! Yet that and similar ones are all over the place and are believed by way too many people to comfortably count. With that is what I've mentioned before, a plethora of CTs for any given event. They can't all be right so which is the most accurate one?

And also because a lot of people are beginning to realize that IF the government is always deceiving, what compels a person to believe the government stories? Because really, the deception that was the events of the day were really really done well, if I was grading the exercise.

The key word there is "if." Given that, where does one draw the line between deception and reality as far as governments go? One can't assume everything any government says is false because that immediately says that even our assorted licenses are invalid. Accepting that they are real then there's room for a government to not always be deceptive. This in turn says that perhaps the conspiracy theories are false. It can go either way, sad to say, but as I said before, not everything is a lie and not everything is a conspiracy.

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Hell, you guys in the US; the rest of the world is astonished every 4 years by the fact that you choose to use an election system that actually makes rigging it EASIER...

ROFL ... Yep. We do that to provide entertainment for the rest of the world. :tsu:

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Kludge

You hit the nail on the head--learning where to draw the line is the art, for sure. Spontaneous events, or staged? Regular events in life, or deception that advances an agenda? I do not know, but it's getting harder and harder.

The 70% was just a number I grabbed. You got the point.

As Aristotle noted, it is possible to entertain an idea, a thought, without embracing it, without accepting it as fact in any given case.

So we arrive at Orwell's observations. If the government is known to deceive to advance an agenda, how does the intelligent citizen regard its government? How does he regard the nightly news?

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Some people are talking as if conspiracies never happen... and so, anyone who proposes or believes a theory of a conspiracy is somehow , delusional.

Conspiracies happen all the time, they always have. A more interesting question might be, why do some people refuse to believe that conspiracies take place?

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BINGO! :tsu:

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Some people are talking as if conspiracies never happen... and so, anyone who proposes or believes a theory of a conspiracy is somehow , delusional.

Conspiracies happen all the time, they always have. A more interesting question might be, why do some people refuse to believe that conspiracies take place?

I agree with you! Conspiracies are a fact and will continue into the future.

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I agree with you! Conspiracies are a fact and will continue into the future.

Hey, Sky ... been a while!

I would never deny deceptions - including conspiracies - are employed by any level of government. You and I both know they are a simple part of doing business for them. They're also often an essential part when the benefits outweigh the risks. However, as I continually say, the government doesn't always lie and not everything is a deception or conspiracy. Some things simply are what they appear to be and they can be pretty bizarre at times.

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you gotta have the red herrings ... otherwise where's the fun ?

or it wouldn't be conspiracy theories just conspiracy facts ... and that would be as much fun as a nun on a deserted island by herself

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You hit the nail on the head--learning where to draw the line is the art, for sure. Spontaneous events, or staged? Regular events in life, or deception that advances an agenda? I do not know, but it's getting harder and harder.

The truth of the matter is that sometimes we'll never know the truth of the matter. On other occasions, things are exactly as they seem to be even in the oddest appearing situations. Sometimes it's like the weirder the situation the more likely it is to be real.

As Aristotle noted, it is possible to entertain an idea, a thought, without embracing it, without accepting it as fact in any given case.

This is how a true skeptic works, not accepting any side of a situation (conspiracy, in this case) without surveying all sides. When no overwhelming evidence appears then he must decide based on what is at hand as to which is most accurate. "Most accurate" because none ever cover everything.

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I agree with you! Conspiracies are a fact and will continue into the future.

Just read today's headlines. You need a scorecard to keep track of the latest scandals.

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you gotta have the red herrings ... otherwise where's the fun ?

or it wouldn't be conspiracy theories just conspiracy facts ... and that would be as much fun as a nun on a deserted island by herself

Don't forget to mix in a few hot pink and subtle violet herrings as well as a collection of blue & green ones for flavor.

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I watch these things unfold ,and when sandy hook and the marathon first occurred ,I bought them both ,hook line and sinker.

Given how horrific the events were ,its nice to think our government isn't such a bottom of the barrel kind of entity ,it would be involved ,but then slowly,pieces fall into place. Things don't add up .

It nothing to do with trust ,authority ,or schitzophernia ,its common sense.

As Judge Judy always says,if it doesn't make sense ,then it probably isn't true .

It used to be the public swallowed all this garbage whole,but now ,so many of these events don't add up,and everyone does a little digging ,and voila ,conspiracy .

The only reason they keep telling us we imagine it,is because we just don't take it all for granted any more,that its not all orchestrated for no other reason than to control us more .

Some of the coincidences are quite mind boggling ....

I mean how often is a family member of skull and bones alum involved ?

Just how many of those skull and bones alum are there ,where ones grand daughter marries a terrorist . Lol

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Hey, Sky ... been a while!

I would never deny deceptions - including conspiracies - are employed by any level of government. You and I both know they are a simple part of doing business for them. They're also often an essential part when the benefits outweigh the risks. However, as I continually say, the government doesn't always lie and not everything is a deception or conspiracy. Some things simply are what they appear to be and they can be pretty bizarre at times.

yes indeed, it has been awhile.

You are right in that respect and I can relate your message to one of my missions. For an example, after the Soviets shot down Korean FLT 007, I was on a Pacific mission in my C-5. Our mission had changed after the Korean airliner was shot down and I noticed that what the public was told in the newspapers was not what the 'Intel' folks were telling us at Clark airbase, Philippines, but it was for a good reason because we were in a race for those black boxes. My aircraft was tagged to fly to Cubi Point, Philippines and upload recovery gear and fly that gear to Japan.

Another example was the CIA's 'Glomar Explorer where the public was told a story that was actually cover story for its real mission, and it was, the recovery of a Soviet submarine that sunk. Sometimes, the government can't always tell the rest of the story in a true sense without spoiling a very important mission, but no doubt, there are also conspiracies.

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yes indeed, it has been awhile.

You are right in that respect and I can relate your message to one of my missions. For an example, after the Soviets shot down Korean FLT 007, I was on a Pacific mission in my C-5. Our mission had changed after the Korean airliner was shot down and I noticed that what the public was told in the newspapers was not what the 'Intel' folks were telling us at Clark airbase, Philippines, but it was for a good reason because we were in a race for those black boxes. My aircraft was tagged to fly to Cubi Point, Philippines and upload recovery gear and fly that gear to Japan.

Another example was the CIA's 'Glomar Explorer where the public was told a story that was actually cover story for its real mission, and it was, the recovery of a Soviet submarine that sunk. Sometimes, the government can't always tell the rest of the story in a true sense without spoiling a very important mission, but no doubt, there are also conspiracies.

I wasn't aware of the first part but the second part came to light after the mission was completed although not a whole lot of folks paid much attention to it. The Soviets were none too pleased with us but they couldn't do a thing to prevent it or get their toys back.

I'm a little surprised at vets not understanding mission critical secrecy & deception - which, as you noted, can include conspiracies - and that we don't always know what really is mission critical. A good example is what's happening in Quincy, MA, with the Big Stink & Cessnas (182s & at least one Caravan) flying around all day & night. The FBI's involved to some extent but who knows how far and no one's saying anything. There's a lot of wild guessing but right now, that's about it. We may never know what's really going on or it may turn out to be innocent ... although "innocent" and "government" rarely go together.

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Posted (edited)

I watch these things unfold ,and when sandy hook and the marathon first occurred ,I bought them both ,hook line and sinker.

Given how horrific the events were ,its nice to think our government isn't such a bottom of the barrel kind of entity ,it would be involved ,but then slowly,pieces fall into place. Things don't add up .

I haven't bothered following all the interminable threads on those subjects, but what, then, is your opinion about those? Were they (all together now) False Flags, then, to give Obama and/or the NWO an excuse to Take Away America's Guns, or is there some new theory?

Edited by Colonel Rhuairidh

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A little touch here and there of reality, and maybe some humility and a little sense, would help. If there are inconsistencies and lies and unexplained aspects of a story, so what? Does that mean that the whole story is false or only that there are inconsistencies and lies and unexplained aspects?

I think as a practical matter the really egregious errors and misdeeds of officials tend to come out, by their very nature. Someone somewhere may "get away" with something, perhaps for the best because whatever they did needed doing.

When one hears a particularly striking CS, ask yourself, what ax is being ground by the purveyors of this theory? Is it part of their opposition to something, or partisanship, or a genuine seeking for truth?

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Posted (edited)

Every reasonable person knows there are conspiracies. What irks me is:

1. the way some people treat EVERYTHING as a conspiracy;

2. how some people (normally people who fall into the first group) refuse to apply a little bit of reasoning, logic and common sense when evaluating their opinions regarding if something is a conspiracy; and

3. how the actions of groups 1 and 2 bring so much discredit and lunacy that REAL conspiracies get lost in the noise (AKA 'boy who cried wolf').

Edited by Obviousman
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Hey, Sky ... been a while!

I would never deny deceptions - including conspiracies - are employed by any level of government. You and I both know they are a simple part of doing business for them. They're also often an essential part when the benefits outweigh the risks. However, as I continually say, the government doesn't always lie and not everything is a deception or conspiracy. Some things simply are what they appear to be and they can be pretty bizarre at times.

I'm glad you would never deny deceptions. As we both know, deception is an essential part of military strategy and tactics, as well it should be. Deceive the enemy so that success in battle might be achieved.

The trouble is that so many people who can make an intellectually honest statement like yours about not denying deception, have a tough time actually recognizing deceptions. Some folks cannot perceive deception, even while they acknowledge that deception is a common tactic.

And IMO, that's where cognitive dissonance comes into play. The question then becomes, is any given person actually unable to perceive a particular deception, or is he just kidding himself that there was no deception?

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I always remember what my teacher used to say... 'Dont stick with what I tell you.. go out and find out for yourself'. :geek:

I guess this has something to do with it, people sometimes don't stick to what the "x" tells us... they nn to find out for themselves and sometimes, it turns out that they were right about having that "gut feeling". :su

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A little touch here and there of reality, and maybe some humility and a little sense, would help. If there are inconsistencies and lies and unexplained aspects of a story, so what? Does that mean that the whole story is false or only that there are inconsistencies and lies and unexplained aspects?

I think as a practical matter the really egregious errors and misdeeds of officials tend to come out, by their very nature. Someone somewhere may "get away" with something, perhaps for the best because whatever they did needed doing.

When one hears a particularly striking CS, ask yourself, what ax is being ground by the purveyors of this theory? Is it part of their opposition to something, or partisanship, or a genuine seeking for truth?

"We're from the government, and we're here to help you." What could possibly go wrong?

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