Is Israel an Apartheid state?

[Bavarian Raven]

The Israeli government is the most militant government on earth

[Yamato]

I agree, in the sense that the amount of land is nowhere comparable. Israel is the size of a bloody postage stamp. But it really isn't about the amount or location of the land to the Arabs....it's about the occupancy. NO AMOUNT of land is acceptable for Jewish inhabitants in Palestine. Arafat said it (in Arabic)...so has Abbas, Haniyeh, Nasrallah..... but I don't hear you saying anything about that - is it because that'd be an okay outcome in your opinion? We here everything about the sins of the Jew, nothing about the intransigency of the Palestinian. That alone tells me of the bias most here have.

And the United States along with many other countries they can live in and practice their religion in peace is the size of the Post Office. Stop supporting Zionist immigration policies jamming "the Jews" into a postage stamp. What does it matter to you? Are "the Jews" not free enough in the United States for you? Your freedoms aren't good enough for them? They need a homeland because your lifestyle is lacking somehow?

The bias most have here is for human rights. That part doesn't seem to rub off on your understanding and why is that?

Nobody is without sin. Nobody deserves tyrannical oppressive states strangling their freedom and livelihood. Clear enough now?

[Yamato]

Would that be the same UN peacekeepers who kept Hizballah from re-arming in southern Lebanon? They have missile stockpiles 3 times what they had when the last Lebanon war with Hizballah occurred. And all that right under the supposed protectors of the peace....cry me a river...

What gives you the right to decide who should have arms and who shouldn't? I think Israel should be disarmed completely as a part of that peacekeeping package granted what they do with their weapons.

How's your cooking taste, btw? Your standard doesn't wear so well on your own feet does it?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Yamato

[Zaphod222]

What gives you the right to decide who should have arms and who shouldn't? I think Israel should be disarmed completely as a part of that peacekeeping package granted what they do with their weapons.

So you are still spouting your islamist propagada?

Here is a reality check:

1. Imagine the PLO and Hamas disarm immediately and recognize the existance of Israel. The result would be peace in the area.

2. Imagine the IDF is dissolved tomorrow. The result would be mass genocide (the new holocaust that Ahmedinejad and Al Qaradafi are clamouring about) and the creation of another islamist hellhole.

In your mind, option 2 is the preferrable one. Bleaugh.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Zaphod222

[Yamato]

So you are still spouting your islamist propagada?

Here is a reality check:

1. Imagine the PLO and Hamas disarm immediately and recognize the existance of Israel. The result would be peace in the area.

2. Imagine the IDF is dissolved tomorrow. The result would be mass genocide (the new holocaust that Ahmedinejad and Al Qaradafi are clamouring about) and the creation of another islamist hellhole.

In your mind, option 2 is the preferrable one. Bleaugh.

The Palestinians are already disarmed and the results are the Zionist terrorist hellhole you prefer. Ahmadinejad is stepping down in August because Iran is at least some semblance of a democracy unlike the other Sharia states that can't shake their Islamist puppet dictators because of people like you who who can't speak out against my money paying for their regimes. Compared to you I'm much more the anti-Islamist in the room. You need a mirror, preferably in the form of Japanese taxpayers paying for Sharia law in the Middle East for a change instead of Tokyoites sitting around blathering baseless insults about me while my tax money is what's paying for them. I'd hand that Islamist bag of trash over to your wallet in a New York minute and make you financially responsible for it, send your self defense force over there to get maimed and killed, send the body bags and mental illness home to the mothers in your city, and then after all your trouble you're put through, I'll come on here and anonymously insult your religion like an unschooled court jester. Because that's exactly what you do to me. Your ignorance is a stinking wreck. Why don't you send me a PM and ask some questions about me there if you're so interested in my personal beliefs since you can't seem to listen correctly in public. How many times do you have to be corrected before you stop repeating yourself?

"Islamist propaganda"? Everything on the face of the earth that calls itself "Islamist" can sink or swim on its own merit and I will sleep like a baby at night when that day comes. And that goes for everything else ending in "ist" for that matter. What part of spending your own tax money on your own little problems with other people can you not understand? Zero dollars to Saudi Arabia, Zero dollars to Afghanistan, Zero dollars to Iraq, Zero dollars to Libya, Zero dollars to Pakistan, Zero dollars to Syria, Zero dollars to Palestine, Zero dollars to Egypt, Zero dollars to Israel. Any questions? Wake up.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Yamato

[Yamato]

"Islamist propaganda"? How about Libertarian propaganda. What a concept! Domestic liberals in the US are bad enough, it's even worse when I have foreign liberals with an entitlement complex telling me what to do with my own money while they get off scott free not lifting a finger or paying a dime for what they care so much about.

It's even worse than that when they can't stop posting the same repetitive stupid comments about me or my religion like they know anything about me.

For the last time Zaphod, listen. I'm no Muslim. Never was, never will be. It's a strange day among the policy-hugging statists when they can't help but to confuse human rights, civil liberties and the end of foreign welfare to "Islamist propaganda".

[Zaphod222]

For the last time Zaphod, listen. I'm no Muslim. Never was, never will be. It's a strange day among the policy-hugging statists when they can't help but to confuse human rights, civil liberties and the end of foreign welfare to "Islamist propaganda".

I don´t know or care what you think you are or not are. Im simply saying that you have bought the extreme islamist anti-semitic propaganda spouted by radical muslim organizations hook, line, and sinker.

Just to confirm, please clarify to us:

--> Is the Hamas-run Gaza strip an "apartheid state"? Yes or no?

--> Is the radical Shariah country of Saudi Arabia an "apartheid state"? Yes or no?

Lets clarify what your definitions are and go from there.

[+and-then]

So you are still spouting your islamist propagada?

Here is a reality check:

1. Imagine the PLO and Hamas disarm immediately and recognize the existance of Israel. The result would be peace in the area.

2. Imagine the IDF is dissolved tomorrow. The result would be mass genocide (the new holocaust that Ahmedinejad and Al Qaradafi are clamouring about) and the creation of another islamist hellhole.

In your mind, option 2 is the preferrable one. Bleaugh.

He will never admit the disconnect because he does not care in the slightest if the state of Israel were destroyed. The rest of his blather is just high sounding crap. I saw a video yesterday that was too graphic to post here. It showed a crowd of a few hundred Sunnis in Egypt beat and stab 4 Shia to death. Their crime? Being Shia. It was savage in the extreme, like a pack of wild dogs going after an injured animal. It went on...and on... no one helped these men. They literally were killed slowly and cruelly while a crowd cheered. THIS is what he wants to rule the land of Israel. Not a democratic state, however imperfect. Some people are too filled with bias to even admit it to themselves...

[Antilles]

I don't remember any Jewish terrorists flying planes full of passengers into the highest buildings in NY.

Sorry, my mistake. They were Islamist terrorists.

Boston bombings anyone?

Those Israelis and their determination to fight for their homeland.

Who do they think they are?

[Guest]

I don't remember any Jewish terrorists flying planes full of passengers into the highest buildings in NY.

Sorry, my mistake. They were Islamist terrorists.

Boston bombings anyone?

Those Israelis and their determination to fight for their homeland.

Who do they think they are?

Some might dispute that the Israeli's didn't have a finger in that particular pie ..... but thats another story.

Br Cornelius

[Yamato]

I don´t know or care what you think you are or not are. Im simply saying that you have bought the extreme islamist anti-semitic propaganda spouted by radical muslim organizations hook, line, and sinker.

Just to confirm, please clarify to us:

--> Is the Hamas-run Gaza strip an "apartheid state"? Yes or no?

--> Is the radical Shariah country of Saudi Arabia an "apartheid state"? Yes or no?

Lets clarify what your definitions are and go from there.

Yeah and George Washington was a terrorist. The problem with statists is that terrorists are freedom fighters.

Let's clarify my position on the subject at hand for you now that you've gotten off of me as the false subject: If Israel wants to pretend that the settlements are part of Israel proper then by definition Israel is an apartheid state.

Now that that's clarified, show me this hook line and sinker in a head to head comparison with what I'm saying to provide a basis for your insults.

[Yamato]

Some might dispute that the Israeli's didn't have a finger in that particular pie ..... but thats another story.

Br Cornelius

Nobody until now has ever claimed that Palestinians did. Moving on...

Blaming Palestinians for 9/11 is like blaming white people for World War 2. That's some kind of spicy racism if I've ever seen any.

[Glorfindel]

I don't remember any Jewish terrorists flying planes full of passengers into the highest buildings in NY.

Sorry, my mistake. They were Islamist terrorists.

Boston bombings anyone?

Those Israelis and their determination to fight for their homeland.

Who do they think they are?

Israeli MOSSAD agents were taken into custody on 9/11. They were filming the towers collapsing and CELEBRATING. Quietly shipped back to Israel, and the news stories removed from internet news websites. Fast forward a couple days, and we're suddenly invading Israel's enemies! Surely that was all a strange coincidence and reality is just anti-semitic.

[+and-then]

Israeli MOSSAD agents were taken into custody on 9/11. They were filming the towers collapsing and CELEBRATING. Quietly shipped back to Israel, and the news stories removed from internet news websites. Fast forward a couple days, and we're suddenly invading Israel's enemies! Surely that was all a strange coincidence and reality is just anti-semitic.

I recall nothing about those "stories". And frankly this is not the forum for CT's. Anyone can SAY anything and it adds to nothing unless corroborated - or so I am constantly told when I express my opinions here.

[Glorfindel]

Well, it was printed in the New York Post and aired on live TV, which I along with thousands upon thousands of others saw. Not really in the realm of CT.

http://www.foxnews.c...at-ny-airports/ scroll to the bottom

http://web.archive.o...van_020621.html heres a archived ABC news report

You can argue about what exactly they were doing (we know they were celebrating and filming, and driving a van from a moving company, which none of the occupants worked for), but denying it happened just makes you look stupid and I can cite loads and loads of sources showing that this happened.

There was also a 20/20 episode about it. But yeah, nothing but a crazy conspiracy theory. I wonder why so many of the articles on it were taken down if they were innocent? Clearly they did not want this knowledge to be widespread.

Sorry, but this is just the smallest amount of info pointing to Israeli involvement. We know who the real enemy is, the country that continues apartheid, the country that takes more US Aid money that any other country (and then spends it on genocidal policies), the country with AIPAC overseeing a foreign country's actions, the country (Israel) that attacked a foreign nation (USA) and then blamed it on their enemies (Muslims). You can try and cover up history, but not everyone forgets.

If there's a God, I have a feeling he's gonna shake his head and pull the lever when you try and explain why you supported Israel's policies.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Glorfindel

[+and-then]

You left out the gentile baby blood in the matza bit...

[Glorfindel]

You left out the gentile baby blood in the matza bit...

Thats your answer eh, just throw on the blinders and yell "anti-semite!". Fortunately, the evidence speaks for itself on who the racists are, its just religious extremist like you that still support Israel's disgusting policies. Its hard not to laugh when you hear accusations of racism coming from someone who supports aparthied/genocide.

I dont understand your argument, all I did is point out that there was indeed MOSSAD agents aprehended on 9/11, and im anti-semitic for pointing this out? LOL, yeap, I guess reality and the universe are just anti-semitic. You know what I think? I think youre anti-semitic for assuming all Jews would support terrorism (which is exactly what you imply when you accuse me of anti-semitism for critisizing Israeli terrorism).

Edited June 25, 2013 by Glorfindel

[+and-then]

Thats your answer eh, just throw on the blinders and yell "anti-semite!". Fortunately, the evidence speaks for itself on who the racists are, its just religious extremist like you that still support Israel's disgusting policies. Its hard not to laugh when you hear accusations of racism coming from someone who supports aparthied/genocide.

I dont understand your argument, all I did is point out that there was indeed MOSSAD agents aprehended on 9/11, and im anti-semitic for pointing this out? LOL, yeap, I guess reality and the universe are just anti-semitic. You know what I think? I think youre anti-semitic for assuming all Jews would support terrorism (which is exactly what you imply when you accuse me of anti-semitism for critisizing Israeli terrorism).

Not going to dignify this tripe with an argument. I have made clear that I am anti-islamist and pro Israel. I have explained why. Even though I consider Islam to be about subjugation and conquest, I still do not pound the drum for their demise or accuse them of every crime and horror under the sun. I don't throw around the term anti Semite for exactly the reason of individuals who like to use it as a club against Israel supporters. Only the individual knows if they hate a Jew for being a Jew or a Muslim for being a Muslim. THAT is the real offense, not looking at the ACTS of a group and calling them on it. And I apply that standard to Jews as well as Muslims. Most arguments against Israel can be traced back to actions they have taken to survive in a land where they are surrounded by millions who would slaughter them happily if they could. Only a foolish person will deny this. At best they will mumble something that amounts to: they have it coming. But when Israelis act like animals and harm Palestinians without cause I call them what they are as well. How 'bout you? Ever met an Israeli who was actually FOR Zionism that you would befriend or at least support? Or do Jews in Israel who believe they have a God given right to live on the land of their forefathers not meet the criteria as human beings for you?

[Glorfindel]

Not going to dignify this tripe with an argument. I have made clear that I am anti-islamist and pro Israel. I have explained why. Even though I consider Islam to be about subjugation and conquest, I still do not pound the drum for their demise or accuse them of every crime and horror under the sun. I don't throw around the term anti Semite for exactly the reason of individuals who like to use it as a club against Israel supporters. Only the individual knows if they hate a Jew for being a Jew or a Muslim for being a Muslim. THAT is the real offense, not looking at the ACTS of a group and calling them on it. And I apply that standard to Jews as well as Muslims. Most arguments against Israel can be traced back to actions they have taken to survive in a land where they are surrounded by millions who would slaughter them happily if they could. Only a foolish person will deny this. At best they will mumble something that amounts to: they have it coming. But when Israelis act like animals and harm Palestinians without cause I call them what they are as well. How 'bout you? Ever met an Israeli who was actually FOR Zionism that you would befriend or at least support? Or do Jews in Israel who believe they have a God given right to live on the land of their forefathers not meet the criteria as human beings for you?

Of course you won't dignify it, because you know youre wrong. I dont have sympathy for their religious beliefs, there is no God given right to the land, and as has been pointed out in another thread, the Palestinians are just as genetically close to the native population as the Jews are. They had many options for land to create the Jewish state on, and they decided, based on religious delusions to displace the population of Palestine to create their state. Terrorist attacks right from the beginning in 1948, they even targetted Brits in the area to try and cover up their atrocities. This is FACT. I have friends that are pro-zionist, and they know theres no point trying to convince me they are in the right, because they know they lose the argument everytime. The world knows they do. I am not pro-Muslim, both Jews and Muslims are children, and Israel expects the west to clean up their mess all the time. And we are getting sick of it. Most of my "tripe" is hard cold facts so its pointless debating with someone like you. Don't tell me you don't throw around the anti-semite card, what the hell else were you implying with that post?

Now look whats happening in the west because of these wars the Israeli state manipulated us into. Economic downfall and now our civil liberties disappearing. Its dusgusting. Israel can fight its own wars or die. I really dont care, we all know Israel wouldn't give two ****s if our situations were reversed.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Glorfindel

[+and-then]

Of course you won't dignify it, because you know youre wrong. I dont have sympathy for their religious beliefs, there is no God given right to the land, and as has been pointed out in another thread, the Palestinians are just as genetically close to the native population as the Jews are. They had many options for land to create the Jewish state on, and they decided, based on religious delusions to displace the population of Palestine to create their state. Terrorist attacks right from the beginning in 1948, they even targetted Brits in the area to try and cover up their atrocities. This is FACT. I have friends that are pro-zionist, and they know theres no point trying to convince me they are in the right, because they know they lose the argument everytime. The world knows they do. I am not pro-Muslim, both Jews and Muslims are children, and Israel expects the west to clean up their mess all the time. And we are getting sick of it. Most of my "tripe" is hard cold facts so its pointless debating with someone like you. Don't tell me you don't throw around the anti-semite card, what the hell else were you implying with that post?

Now look whats happening in the west because of these wars the Israeli state manipulated us into. Economic downfall and now our civil liberties disappearing. Its dusgusting. Israel can fight its own wars or die. I really dont care, we all know Israel wouldn't give two ****s if our situations were reversed.

I will mostly agree with your last statement. Israel is about SELF preservation - just as we all are. I support the people of Israel NOT because they are perfect but because I am instructed to by my faith. But even at that I still can have a rational view of Muslims - consider them human...even if I think they are deluded. you are correct - I am just as adamant in my beliefs as you are in your's. I respect your integrity - we just don't and never will, agree.

[Glorfindel]

I will mostly agree with your last statement. Israel is about SELF preservation - just as we all are. I support the people of Israel NOT because they are perfect but because I am instructed to by my faith. But even at that I still can have a rational view of Muslims - consider them human...even if I think they are deluded. you are correct - I am just as adamant in my beliefs as you are in your's. I respect your integrity - we just don't and never will, agree.

Yeah, the difference is I don't use religious nonsense to justify GENOCIDE. I am not politically correct bud, I have no sympathy for Muslims or Jews preaching their bull****, and then using it to justify their ass-backwards behaviour. Why are we still giving Israel money when our countries are facing economic meltdown, partially because of Israel to begin with? You and the people that keep supporting this crap need to knock it off with biblical fairytales and GROW UP. Tell me, whats gonna happen to Israel is the long run if the west gets sick of this and decides to cut all economic and military support, just a theoretical question. Maybe they should start behaving now before its too late, because as soon as all these ancient Republicans die of old age, the next generation of atheistic libs might not care so much about a racist/religious state's survival.

Then again, you might think Jesus will return by then

Edited June 26, 2013 by Glorfindel

[+and-then]

Yeah, the difference is I don't use religious nonsense to justify GENOCIDE. I am not politically correct bud, I have no sympathy for Muslims or Jews preaching their bull****, and then using it to justify their ass-backwards behaviour. Why are we still giving Israel money when our countries are facing economic meltdown, partially because of Israel to begin with? You and the people that keep supporting this crap need to knock it off with biblical fairytales and GROW UP. Tell me, whats gonna happen to Israel is the long run if the west gets sick of this and decides to cut all economic and military support, just a theoretical question. Maybe they should start behaving now before its too late, because as soon as all these ancient Republicans die of old age, the next generation of atheistic libs might not care so much about a racist/religious state's survival.

Then again, you might think Jesus will return by then

When He returns is up to Him. And the idea that Israel will be abandoned by everyone - including the US - is already foretold. It WILL happen. But before you start popping champagne corks, the rest of the story is that they gain an even greater victory over Russia, Turkey, Iran, Sudan and several other nations who are currently champing at the bit (much like you, apparently) for Israel's demise. Not sure how old you are but hopefully we can discuss it as it happens. Or does that prediction from Ezekiel 38 and 39 fall under the aegis of not being "grown up enough" to you? Those who laugh at bible prophecy will never willingly admit their error but a day will come when it won't matter whether they believe it or not. Their lives will be overtaken by the reality and it will be useless to deny any longer. At that point it is predicted that they will shake their fist at the Creator - at that point it will be game, set and match.... I feel sorry for them at that point.

Edited to correct a scriptural reference.

Edited June 26, 2013 by and then

[Glorfindel]

When He returns is up to Him. And the idea that Israel will be abandoned by everyone - including the US - is already foretold. It WILL happen. But before you start popping champagne corks, the rest of the story is that they gain an even greater victory over Russia, Turkey, Iran, Sudan and several other nations who are currently champing at the bit (much like you, apparently) for Israel's demise. Not sure how old you are but hopefully we can discuss it as it happens. Or does that prediction from Ezekiel 38 and 39 fall under the aegis of not being "grown up enough" to you? Those who laugh at bible prophecy will never willingly admit their error but a day will come when it won't matter whether they believe it or not. Their lives will be overtaken by the reality and it will be useless to deny any longer. At that point it is predicted that they will shake their fist at the Creator - at that point it will be game, set and match.... I feel sorry for them at that point.

Edited to correct a scriptural reference.

Assuming your religion is correct and real, what makes you think God wants you to support Israel because of prophecy? If its a prophecy then its going to happen regardless of whether you support Israel or not. In which case, he may lay the book on ya for supporting genocide. The Jews aren't even Christian, most of them will go to hell, correct? No where in the Bible does it says the people of Earth must bring about the prophecy for the prophecy to happen (LOL). So that alone tells me, it makes no sense for a Christian to support zionism. Good luck getting into heaven.

At least when God tosses me into hell, he'll know my morals were unwaivering to the last moment. When he judges you, he will see how worldly you really are and how you strayed from his morals just to advance a worldly political view that you mistakenly thought was prophecy, how you supported materialism by destroying a group of people for nothing but a piece of land. How you supported the people who killed his only begotten son and rejected Christ to this day. How you did this all in his name.

Either way, Im sure I'll see ya in hell.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Glorfindel

[Antilles]

Israeli MOSSAD agents were taken into custody on 9/11. They were filming the towers collapsing and CELEBRATING. Quietly shipped back to Israel, and the news stories removed from internet news websites. Fast forward a couple days, and we're suddenly invading Israel's enemies! Surely that was all a strange coincidence and reality is just anti-semitic.

I read the article you provided and nowhere there does it say they were Mossad agents.

[Antilles]

Yeah, the difference is I don't use religious nonsense to justify GENOCIDE. I am not politically correct bud, I have no sympathy for Muslims or Jews preaching their bull****, and then using it to justify their ass-backwards behaviour. Why are we still giving Israel money when our countries are facing economic meltdown, partially because of Israel to begin with? You and the people that keep supporting this crap need to knock it off with biblical fairytales and GROW UP. Tell me, whats gonna happen to Israel is the long run if the west gets sick of this and decides to cut all economic and military support, just a theoretical question. Maybe they should start behaving now before its too late, because as soon as all these ancient Republicans die of old age, the next generation of atheistic libs might not care so much about a racist/religious state's survival.

Then again, you might think Jesus will return by then

So which Muslim group do you support, Sunnis or the Shiites? They're well known for their balanced behaviour (cough GENOCIDE) in the name of religion.