Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
Erikl

Is Israel an Apartheid state?

320 posts in this topic

It will be resolved some day. But the issue right now really isn't so simple as you make it. Israel has no winning hand in Syria. No matter WHO wins, they will hate Israel - agreed? So what benefit is there to Israel to strike anyone UNLESS it is in self defense from weapons that will cause much more danger for Israel? IOW Israel is only striking because Assad is trying to give missiles to Hezbollah

Look ... things has got to roll from somewhere ... Rabin tried and got shot ... since then the Hawks had had a strangle hold on the policies we see today which is not for the best interests of Israel, that much is agreeable even to the most rabid anti Hezbollah opinion there, this is all Benjamin's policies to cover 'his own' crimes and evade international Judicial process .... the people there seems to believe that if its good for Ben its good for them, a long as Ben is safe, Ben will keep them safe.

Thing is ... the way Ben is going about it ... it makes things unsafe in the long run .... sooner or later as the saying goes somethings gotta give.

Even now so many generations of the murdered and killed will remember .... and will remember ... you can't kill all of them, you can't kill memories

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, debating Zionism and it's meaning is behind the scope of this thread and is off-topic.

As for your opposition to it, you yourself said you wish zionism will pack it's pack and go away..

So first you claim I don't know what Zionism is. Then after I define it for you correctly you don't want to discuss it. I think the correct response was to acknowledge that in fact I know exactly what it is.

Zionism has no place in the 21st century. Zionist Jews needed a peaceful place to live free from oppression in the 20th century. They would have found that in the US, but chose differently. Now that they've chosen differently the onus is on them to assure they don't oppress anyone else and they've failed in that minimal task. I am anti-Zionist because Zionist policies inhuman and despicable. Change the policies, and the ideology may redeem itself yet, because many of us are forgiving people.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stand corrected then. So are you saying that the HUMAN BEINGS who call themselves Jews who are living in the land today are illegitimate and should be removed by any means necessary? Because THAT is what your clients, the Palestinians, believe. So what is it BJ? If they have no right to be there then how, exactly, would you remove them - especially considering they are quite willing to die to defend what they so foolishly (in your opinion) believe is their home?

What about the Palestinians? Is their living in the lands which they have lived in for the past 1,300 years illegitimate and should they be removed by any means necessary? In fact, the Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that has traced its ancestry to prehistoric times in the region. Quite frankly, the Palestinians were there FIRST!

I stand corrected then. So are you saying that the HUMAN BEINGS who call themselves Jews who are living in the land today are illegitimate and should be removed by any means necessary? Because THAT is what your clients, the Palestinians, believe. So what is it BJ? If they have no right to be there then how, exactly, would you remove them - especially considering they are quite willing to die to defend what they so foolishly (in your opinion) believe is their home?

What about the Palestinians? Is their living in the lands which they have lived in for the past 1,300 years illegitimate and should they be removed by any means necessary? In fact, the Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that has traced its ancestry to prehistoric times in the region. Quite frankly, the Palestinians were there FIRST!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even Ehud Barak admitted the Apartheid: "As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic… If this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state." Palestinians voted, and they voted wrong (for Israel's stand-in against the PLO, Hamas) and now they're being strangled by military force in a land void of civil liberty. If Israel continues to defy the world in what is so flagrantly a violation of international standards, they will suffer in the end both politically and economically. I like to be optimistic that the end of Zionism is near.

And to preempt the predictable and desperate Zionist accusations, sorry but there is no reason the end of Zionism needs to be a violent act.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, propaganda. And you also seem to misread into your own quotes, as you've failed to understand the text that you've posted here. Basic Laws in Israel are an uncodified constitution. The lack of a written constitution, doesn't mean that a country or a government is free to do whatever it wants - also the existence of a constitution doesn't mean that a country is a democracy as well.

Also the fact Israel, just as the UK, New Zealand etc., has uncodified constitution as opposed to a single written document US-style, has nothing to do with the sinister, conspirative aspirations you allocate to it (to oppress etc.), but simply the result of Israel over pluralistic democracy and lack of agreement by most parts of its society on how that single document should look like. For the same reason, the average life span of a government in Israel is 2.5 years, even though each term is 4 - most governments just don't survive that long, because our current political system give too much stress on pluralism than on stability.

As for discrimination etc., in Israel - ofcourse it exists. It exists anywhere in the West. Is it any different in Israel than in other liberal democracies? ofcourse not. Does it amount to apartheid? ofcourse not. Does the fact that non-Christians need to live in a country with three crosses on its flag (St. George's, St. Andrews' and St. Patrick's) and sing "God save the queen" means there's an opressive religious regime in the UK opressing non-Christians? Does the Finnish Aliens Act which provides autmatic citizenship to every person of Finnish origin discriminates people that don't have Finnish origin? yep. Same as additional 31 countries in the world which provide Law of return immigration policy which obviously discriminates people that do not belong to that ethnic group.

Israel is no different in that. Trying hard, after you failed to propogate your "Israel is an apartheid state" lie, to make it appear otherwise, is pathetic at best.

Let me fill in the blanks in your story. The "1947 invasion of Israel to Palestine" didn't happen. There was no Israel back then, and there was no Palestine state back then. It began as a civil war between two groups living under the British mandate in the region. It began after the UN decided on division of the land into two states. The violence was started by the Palestinian/Arab side, which wanted all the land, while the Jews happily agreed to their part. Let me also fill in more blanks for you - while some Palestinians might have been expelled, most of them fled under the promise of their leadership that they will soon be able to return not only to their homes, but to what would become the ghost towns that used to be the Jewish towns, after all the Jews would be murdered. Let me also fill in for you and the readers, that the Palestinians have called foreign militaries to invade into the land, thus have found themselves under Jordanian and Egyptian occupations until 1967.

And ofcourse let me also fill in yet another blank fact for you - at the same time some 600,000 Arabs left the land to the sorrounding Arab states, some 900,000 Jews were expelled from those Arab states and have found home in the newly founded Israel.

Ofcourse this nice little tale of ours got nothing to do with the lie you were reapeating previously, saying Israel wishes to occupy the Middle East and establish the biblical "Greater Israel" empire. If anything, again, Israel is the only country in the last several decades under several different administrations (some of them right wing) to give off land, some of it several times it's current size.

But isn't it nice to live in a dream world?

Yep, propaganda. And you also seem to misread into your own quotes, as you've failed to understand the text that you've posted here. Basic Laws in Israel are an uncodified constitution. The lack of a written constitution, doesn't mean that a country or a government is free to do whatever it wants - also the existence of a constitution doesn't mean that a country is a democracy as well.

Also the fact Israel, just as the UK, New Zealand etc., has uncodified constitution as opposed to a single written document US-style, has nothing to do with the sinister, conspirative aspirations you allocate to it (to oppress etc.), but simply the result of Israel over pluralistic democracy and lack of agreement by most parts of its society on how that single document should look like. For the same reason, the average life span of a government in Israel is 2.5 years, even though each term is 4 - most governments just don't survive that long, because our current political system give too much stress on pluralism than on stability.

As for discrimination etc., in Israel - ofcourse it exists. It exists anywhere in the West. Is it any different in Israel than in other liberal democracies? ofcourse not. Does it amount to apartheid? ofcourse not. Does the fact that non-Christians need to live in a country with three crosses on its flag (St. George's, St. Andrews' and St. Patrick's) and sing "God save the queen" means there's an opressive religious regime in the UK opressing non-Christians? Does the Finnish Aliens Act which provides autmatic citizenship to every person of Finnish origin discriminates people that don't have Finnish origin? yep. Same as additional 31 countries in the world which provide Law of return immigration policy which obviously discriminates people that do not belong to that ethnic group.

Israel is no different in that. Trying hard, after you failed to propogate your "Israel is an apartheid state" lie, to make it appear otherwise, is pathetic at best.

And you speak like Israel's director of Propaganda and PR or a brainwashed child of Zionism.

No Israeli government, the Likud or Labor Party has ever genuinely proposed equality for the Palestinian citizens. Yes, Palestinians are official citizens of Israel but are discriminated against through numerous laws that reserve rigths to JEWS.

"In practice, the Palestinian citizens of Israel have always been subject to systematic and widespread discrimination. To argue, as some dovish Israelis do, that this discrimination is a social and economic issue, ignores the fact that it is fundamentally political. It is about power. Palestinians have never shared political power and have no prospect in the forseeable future of doing so. Although some have played a role as co-opted members of Zionist political parties, they have never been given full ministerial authority or party power. Their role has been token, to give credibility to the claim on Arab votes and to the impression of a fully fledged democracy. For Palestinians it has been a democracy bereft of substance."

Pgs. 123-124, 145. David McDowall, Palestine And Israel: The Uprising And Beyond

This discrimination began as soon as Israel came into being. They were aliens in their own land. In 1950, Israel drove out 14,000 Palestinian inhabitants of Majdal in order to create the new JEWISH city of Ashkelon. These Palestinians citizens were subject to Israel's Defense Regulations under which they were prosecuted before military rather than civilian courts, severely restricted in their movements, vulnerable to exhile and town arrest without appeal, prohibited from organized political action, forced to submit to censorship of their newspapers and school textbooks, and severely circumscribed in obtaining building permits.

These Palestinian citizens remained under military rule until 1966, when the Knesset finally abolished it. However, many of these restrictive rules of the Defense Regulations were retained in other forms and continue in use against Palestinian citizens to this very day.

Palestinian citizens are not allowed to serve in the armed forces. Because of that, Palestinian citizens lose out on a whole range of social benefits provided to veterans such as housing, social services, and other subsidies. Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, U.S. Department of State

Here are some forms of discrimation:

No Palestinian has the basic right to return to his or her homeland while any Jew anywhere in the world can receive automatic citizenship in Israel under the 1950 Law Of Return.

Palestinian citizens are forced to carry special identification cards noting that the bearer in not Jewish.

Under the 1952 Nationality Law, "Jewish nationality" confers automatic Israeli citizenship on Jews anywhere and sets its citizenship rules so stringently for non-Jews that many Palestinians are denied citizenship in spite of the fact their families have lived in Palestine for generations.

The World Zionist Organization-Jewish Agency Status Law also passed in 1952, legalized special economic, political, and social benefits for Jews Only. It gave exclusive rights to the Israelis of "Jewish nationality" INCLUDING the right to purchase land. Jewish instittutions such as the Jewish National Fund are prohibited by law from selling land in Israel to non-Jews and are enjoined to hold all land "for the whole Jewish people." The law also affirmed that the state of Israel regarded itself as the creation of the entire Jewish people and that therefore its gates were open to all Jews.

There are a skein of laws for expropriating Palestinian citizen property; Law For Requisitioning Of Property In Time Of Emergency (1949), The Absentee's Property Law (1950), and the Land Acquisition Law (1953). Under the 1953 law alone, about a million acres of land owned by 18,000 Palestinians were confiscated. Once this land is acquired by the state or the Jewish National Fund, a subordinate body of the World Zionist Organization-Jewish Agency, it cannot be sold or alienated in any way, in other words, it is forever held in trust for the Jewish people. In 1961, the relationship between the fund and the government was described as being "beneficial to persons of Jewish religion, race, or origin." Between the Fund and the Israeli government, they own 93% of the land inside Israel by the early 1990s, most of it confiscated from the Palestinians.

In 1967, after the discovery that some Jews were subletting land to Palestinians, another law was passed, the Agricultural Settlement Law, which prohibited the subleasing of land without authority of the minister of agriculture. Thus, Palestinian citizens were further restricted in where they could live or operate a business - and continue to do so.

"The official policy towards the Israeli Arabs was and is not to allow them any activity within a political, social, or economic framework which is independent and Arab." Dani Rubinstein, the Israeli reporter for Arab affairs for the Hebrew daily, Davar, 1975

In 1949, the Flag And Emblem Law mandated the Star of David as Israel's state flag to reflect the "identification between the new state and the Jewish people."

In 1985, a new law declared that NO ONE could run for public office who rejects, "the existance of the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish people."

And then there is this incriminating evidence:

The Koenig Memorandum, 1976

This 1976 document, named after its author, Israel Koenig, Northern District Galilee commissioner of the Ministry of Interior, is a lengthy report warning against growing Palestinian nationalism and suggested a number of ways Palestinians with Israeli citizenship could be thwarted. These included examining:

"... the possibility of diluting existing Arab population concentrations"

"... giving preferential treatment [in the economic sector, including jobs] to Jewish groups or individuals rather than to Arabs"

encouraging Arab students to enroll in difficult scientific studies because "these studies leave less time for dabbling in nationalism and the dropout rate is higher"

encouraging Arab students to study abroad "while making the return and employment more difficult - this policy is apt to encourage their emigration"

The Israeli government reported it was just one man's opinion and not official policy in spite of the fact Koenig remained in his post as commissioner for Galilee and that the Koenig Memorandum's coauthor, Zvi Aldoraty, was recommended by Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin as his candidate for the appointment as the DIRECTOR of the Labor Party's Arab Department.

And what about Rabin's inaugural address in 1992 upon returning as Prime Minister, "Today, almost 45 years after the foundation of the state, there are quite large gaps between the Jewish and Arab sectors in many areas. On behalf of the new government, I would like to promise the Arab, Druze, and Bedouin population to make every possible effort to close those gaps."

Let me fill in the blanks in your story. The "1947 invasion of Israel to Palestine" didn't happen. There was no Israel back then, and there was no Palestine state back then. It began as a civil war between two groups living under the British mandate in the region. It began after the UN decided on division of the land into two states. The violence was started by the Palestinian/Arab side, which wanted all the land, while the Jews happily agreed to their part. Let me also fill in more blanks for you - while some Palestinians might have been expelled, most of them fled under the promise of their leadership that they will soon be able to return not only to their homes, but to what would become the ghost towns that used to be the Jewish towns, after all the Jews would be murdered. Let me also fill in for you and the readers, that the Palestinians have called foreign militaries to invade into the land, thus have found themselves under Jordanian and Egyptian occupations until 1967.

And ofcourse let me also fill in yet another blank fact for you - at the same time some 600,000 Arabs left the land to the sorrounding Arab states, some 900,000 Jews were expelled from those Arab states and have found home in the newly founded Israel.

Ofcourse this nice little tale of ours got nothing to do with the lie you were reapeating previously, saying Israel wishes to occupy the Middle East and establish the biblical "Greater Israel" empire. If anything, again, Israel is the only country in the last several decades under several different administrations (some of them right wing) to give off land, some of it several times it's current size.

But isn't it nice to live in a dream world?

Ah this again, ad nauseum. I trust the intelligence and the opinions of the UM board members rather than get into this all over again. This has been run into the ground forward and backwards.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about the Palestinians? Is their living in the lands which they have lived in for the past 1,300 years illegitimate and should they be removed by any means necessary? In fact, the Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that has traced its ancestry to prehistoric times in the region. Quite frankly, the Palestinians were there FIRST!

What about the Palestinians? Is their living in the lands which they have lived in for the past 1,300 years illegitimate and should they be removed by any means necessary? In fact, the Palestinians are a mixture of peoples that has traced its ancestry to prehistoric times in the region. Quite frankly, the Palestinians were there FIRST!

How would you remove them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would you remove them?

Lesson #12 for Zionists: Stop "removing" anybody. It's POLICY that needs to suffer, not PEOPLE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would you remove them?

By ethnic cleansing of Occupied Palestine of its non-Jewish population.

The Nakba (disaster/calamity suffered by indigenous non-Jewish Palestinians) that started with the establishment of Israel in 1948, never ended. The forcible displacement of the indigenous Palestinian people from their homes continues till this day.

Here is a fine article on this issue with ample references. Everyone, please take time to read this full article:

The Ongoing Nakba: The continuous forcible displacement of the Palestinian people

Here is another one:

The Nakba is a past and a present, a continuous and developing process of Zionist colonization

Of course,I expect some here to scream, "propaganda...", like they usually do, but the truth is not hard to see for those who are willing to see it.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a plan for the future government of Palestine. The Plan was described as a Plan of Partition with Economic Union which, after the termination of the British Mandate, would lead to the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. On 29 November 1947, the General Assembly adopted a resolution recommending the adoption and implementation of the Plan as Resolution 181.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a plan for the future government of Palestine. The Plan was described as a Plan of Partition with Economic Union which, after the termination of the British Mandate, would lead to the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. On 29 November 1947, the General Assembly adopted a resolution recommending the adoption and implementation of the Plan as Resolution 181.

Which reminds me, Israel should exist in conformity to UN Res 181, yet another UN resolution Israel is in violation of. With power comes responsibility. It appears as if those who were given power the most generously might also be those who abuse that power the most. Israel must use intellect and cunning to deal with its neighborhood problems just like the rest of the sane world.

Turning peoples' land into a barbed wire maze isn't cool. That kind of foreign statist control over free populations is a supreme example of tyranny in the world today, it would never be tolerated in America for one second, it shouldn't be tolerated anywhere else in the world either. Mr. Netanyahu, tear down those corridors and get off those roads.

US bureaucratic positions on Israel are unfortunately irreconcilable. Future generations of politicians will have to decide that this shameless game we're playing has made us into global fools. I want the US to be brilliant, not a terrorist target that consumes the government's (the peoples') resources and chews up our Constitution like it's just a g'ded piece of paper, all in the name of keeping us safe. Well westerm bureaucrats, if you really want to keep us safe please change your foreign policies.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So first you claim I don't know what Zionism is. Then after I define it for you correctly you don't want to discuss it. I think the correct response was to acknowledge that in fact I know exactly what it is.

Zionism has no place in the 21st century. Zionist Jews needed a peaceful place to live free from oppression in the 20th century. They would have found that in the US, but chose differently. Now that they've chosen differently the onus is on them to assure they don't oppress anyone else and they've failed in that minimal task. I am anti-Zionist because Zionist policies inhuman and despicable. Change the policies, and the ideology may redeem itself yet, because many of us are forgiving people.

What do you want? applause? obviously you still use it in the wrong context. "Zionism has no place in 21st century" doesn't go together with "Zionism is the support of the Jews right for self-determination", because Jews in Israel still deserve it. It's as if claiming that the French right for self-determination has no place in 21st century.

And maybe America should be the location for Palestinians? or maybe one of the 22 neighboring Arab countries where most of the Palestinians live should be their "peaceful place" for the 21st century? no?

Zionist policies have managed to bring democracy and civil rights to a location on the planet which suffers from severe lack of those things. Palestinians themselves do not want that, and that's fine, but they wish to see their state ruled by the same undemocratic minority-hunting regimes they and the rest of the Arab nations are ruled today. You pose yourself as a great warrior for human rights, yet for some odd reason you support nationalist movements with the exact different plan in their heads.

Let me ask you something - many neo-Nazi members come from very poor families. In a sense, they are the underdogs of their societies because many of them are the oppressed, poor people in those societies. Yet, you'd never support their nationalistic cause. Same goes for current Palestinian nationalism - it is filled with violence, hatred, racism and genocidal aspirations. Are most of the Palestinians poor? yes. Do they deserve their own state? I believe so, as do most Israelis and the current Zionist thinking.

I can not understand how you can support racism, violence, etc., while claiming to support human rights. I understand now that you have to make Israel and Zionism the bigger evil for you to support the Palestinians. However, when all else fails, the only conclusion, however unlikely, is the right one. And for you, the most unlikely conclusion is that Israel is indeed the liberal democracy that it is, that yeah, sometimes have to take measures to ensure it's safety, but not unlike many other liberal democracies.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which reminds me, Israel should exist in conformity to UN Res 181, yet another UN resolution Israel is in violation of. With power comes responsibility. It appears as if those who were given power the most generously might also be those who abuse that power the most. Israel must use intellect and cunning to deal with its neighborhood problems just like the rest of the sane world.

Turning peoples' land into a barbed wire maze isn't cool. That kind of foreign statist control over free populations is a supreme example of tyranny in the world today, it would never be tolerated in America for one second, it shouldn't be tolerated anywhere else in the world either. Mr. Netanyahu, tear down those corridors and get off those roads.

US bureaucratic positions on Israel are unfortunately irreconcilable. Future generations of politicians will have to decide that this shameless game we're playing has made us into global fools. I want the US to be brilliant, not a terrorist target that consumes the government's (the peoples') resources and chews up our Constitution like it's just a g'ded piece of paper, all in the name of keeping us safe. Well westerm bureaucrats, if you really want to keep us safe please change your foreign policies.

What the hell are you talking about.... omg... "barbed wire maze"... gosh. Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about. This thread is about the Israel is NOT and apartheid. I think we've managed to establish that pretty much. Now that it has been established, the Israeli bashers, defeated, try to abuse this thread and take it off-topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

What do you want? applause? obviously you still use it in the wrong context. "Zionism has no place in 21st century" doesn't go together with "Zionism is the support of the Jews right for self-determination", because Jews in Israel still deserve it. It's as if claiming that the French right for self-determination has no place in 21st century.

And maybe America should be the location for Palestinians? or maybe one of the 22 neighboring Arab countries where most of the Palestinians live should be their "peaceful place" for the 21st century? no?

Zionist policies have managed to bring democracy and civil rights to a location on the planet which suffers from severe lack of those things. Palestinians themselves do not want that, and that's fine, but they wish to see their state ruled by the same undemocratic minority-hunting regimes they and the rest of the Arab nations are ruled today. You pose yourself as a great warrior for human rights, yet for some odd reason you support nationalist movements with the exact different plan in their heads.

Let me ask you something - many neo-Nazi members come from very poor families. In a sense, they are the underdogs of their societies because many of them are the oppressed, poor people in those societies. Yet, you'd never support their nationalistic cause. Same goes for current Palestinian nationalism - it is filled with violence, hatred, racism and genocidal aspirations. Are most of the Palestinians poor? yes. Do they deserve their own state? I believe so, as do most Israelis and the current Zionist thinking.

I can not understand how you can support racism, violence, etc., while claiming to support human rights. I understand now that you have to make Israel and Zionism the bigger evil for you to support the Palestinians. However, when all else fails, the only conclusion, however unlikely, is the right one. And for you, the most unlikely conclusion is that Israel is indeed the liberal democracy that it is, that yeah, sometimes have to take measures to ensure it's safety, but not unlike many other liberal democracies.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

The Zionists perpetuating their policy on Palestinians don't deserve it, Jews in Israel or not. They deserve to be behind bars, evicted of their stations. And they're the ones in power right now so it's up to you to do something about it.

I support 800,000 innocent children Israel's tyrants besiege, just for starters. That's no "ally" of anything I stand for as an American. If your government was interested in peace that's what they'd push for but the bulldozers, barbed wire, numerous outposts housed by armed thugs, illegal settlements, corridors, and Jewish-only arteries on foreign soil gave you away. :( Israel can't hide its crimes in the 21st century. The words of your bureaucrats might mean something in a vacuum, not in view of Israel's policies.

Palestine is the "location" for Palestinians. When the swiss-cheese the Israeli govt has turned it into is no longer, it can have an honest chance of statehood.

Especially not with a Sabra like Netanyahu.

Sarkozy: I cannot stand him. He is a liar.

Obama: You're fed up with him but I have to deal with him every day.

Edited by Yamato
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Zionists perpetuating their policy on Palestinians don't deserve it, Jews in Israel or not. They deserve to be behind bars, evicted of their stations. And they're the ones in power right now so it's up to you to do something about it.

Obviously contradicted by this:

Are most of the Palestinians poor? yes. Do they deserve their own state? I believe so, as do most Israelis and the current Zionist thinking.

In the same post!

Do you even take the time to read these posts before you post "replies"? I think it's quite clear you have no interest in a discussion, just ranting and posting propaganda. "Zionists this", "Zionists that", blah blah.

I support 800,000 innocent children your tyrants besiege for starters.

Nope, not us, their brethren Jordanians and Egyptians. Not even one single refugee camp was created in Israel after 1948 - they were all given Israeli citizenship. And now the refugee camps are all under Palestinian regimes which gets billions of dollars but instead of dismantling these camps and build cities in the vast empty areas in the West Bank, they continue to pump to those third generation refugees that they are soon going to "liberate" Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem from "da Joooz".

Palestine is the "location" for Palestinians.

Palestine in what you consider Palestine was an artificial League of Nations creation, which was then re-sized by the British, some 80 years ago. Until that time, Europeans used to call Jews in Europe as "Palestinians" and usually graffiti on the walls "Jews to Palestine". Nowadays they say "Jews out of Palestine".

Your true colors are obvious, no matter how much you try to disguise it.

I have no interest in keep taking this thread off topic. This thread is about Israel not being an apartheid state. This was established already. Stop abusing this thread with your vile propaganda.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously contradicted by this:

In the same post!

Do you even take the time to read these posts before you post "replies"? I think it's quite clear you have no interest in a discussion, just ranting and posting propaganda. "Zionists this", "Zionists that", blah blah.

Nope, not us, their brethren Jordanians and Egyptians. Not even one single refugee camp was created in Israel after 1948 - they were all given Israeli citizenship. And now the refugee camps are all under Palestinian regimes which gets billions of dollars but instead of dismantling these camps and build cities in the vast empty areas in the West Bank, they continue to pump to those third generation refugees that they are soon going to "liberate" Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem from "da Joooz".

Palestine in what you consider Palestine was an artificial League of Nations creation, which was then re-sized by the British, some 80 years ago. Until that time, Europeans used to call Jews in Europe as "Palestinians" and usually graffiti on the walls "Jews to Palestine". Nowadays they say "Jews out of Palestine".

Your true colors are obvious, no matter how much you try to disguise it.

I have no interest in keep taking this thread off topic. This thread is about Israel not being an apartheid state. This was established already. Stop abusing this thread with your vile propaganda.

I see no contradiction. What do you think is contradictory?

The Israeli government has Gaza under siege and needs to be brought to heel by the international community.

If "they" say "Jews out of Palestine" why do they say that? Is it because the illegal settlers are Jews? The simplest explanation might be best here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Israeli government has Gaza under siege and needs to be brought to heel by the international community.

Right. Keep on with the off-topic ranting. All sieges are illegal, right? Oh no, oops, only ones done by Israel. Egyptian president Mursi sends his regards, btw.

If "they" say "Jews out of Palestine" why do they say that?

For the same reasons the like of you used to say "Jews to Palestine" some 70 years ago.

Regardless, this is well off-topic. If you want to bash Israel, just open another thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously contradicted by this:

In the same post!

Do you even take the time to read these posts before you post "replies"? I think it's quite clear you have no interest in a discussion, just ranting and posting propaganda. "Zionists this", "Zionists that", blah blah.

Nope, not us, their brethren Jordanians and Egyptians. Not even one single refugee camp was created in Israel after 1948 - they were all given Israeli citizenship. And now the refugee camps are all under Palestinian regimes which gets billions of dollars but instead of dismantling these camps and build cities in the vast empty areas in the West Bank, they continue to pump to those third generation refugees that they are soon going to "liberate" Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem from "da Joooz".

Palestine in what you consider Palestine was an artificial League of Nations creation, which was then re-sized by the British, some 80 years ago. Until that time, Europeans used to call Jews in Europe as "Palestinians" and usually graffiti on the walls "Jews to Palestine". Nowadays they say "Jews out of Palestine".

Your true colors are obvious, no matter how much you try to disguise it.

I have no interest in keep taking this thread off topic. This thread is about Israel not being an apartheid state. This was established already. Stop abusing this thread with your vile propaganda.

+1 and BRAVO! It is vile and continuous and unacceptable.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

How would you remove them?

Well, the Palestinians are the heart and soul of the Israeli-Arab conflict. They formed the original core of Israel's "problems" in the Middle East.

"...in many ways, the Palestinian dimension of the Arab-Israeli conflict is the heart of that conflict. Final solution... WILL NOT be possible until agreement is reached defining a just and permanent status for the Arab peoples who consider themselves Palestinians. " Harold H Saunders, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State For Near East Affairs, U.S. State Department, November 12 1975

"... that the problem of the Palestine Arab refugees has arisen from the DENIALof their inalienable rights under the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights." UN Resolution 2535B

"people of Palestine are entitled to equal rights and self-determination, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." UN Resolution 2672

"the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination [who are] entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right by ANY means at their disposal." UN Resolution 2649

Resolution 3089 declared that the Palestinians' inalienable rights included the linkage of their self-determination with the refugees' right of return.

"Palestinians were now fully backed by the world community with four major rights: the right of return, the right of self-determination, the right of struggle and the right to receive aid in their struggle." Ghayth Armanazi, "The Rights Of the Palestinians: The International Definition", Journal Of Palestine Studies, Spring 1974, 94-95

Well, there's my answer, and then.

Edited by B Jenkins
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the Palestinians are the heart and soul of the Israeli-Arab conflict. They formed the original core of Israel's "problems" in the Middle East.

"...in many ways, the Palestinian dimension of the Arab-Israeli conflict is the heart of that conflict. Final solution... WILL NOT be possible until agreement is reached defining a just and permanent status for the Arab peoples who consider themselves Palestinians. " Harold H Saunders, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State For Near East Affairs, U.S. State Department November 12 1975

"... that the problem of the Palestine Arab refugees has arisen from the DENIALof their inalienable rights under the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights." UN Resolution 2535B

"people of Palestine are entitled to equal rights and self-determination, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." UN Resolution 2672

"the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination [who are] entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right by ANY meansat their disposal." UN Resolution 2649

Resolution 3089 declared that the Palestinians' inalienable rights included the linkage of their self-determination with the refugees' right of return.

"Palestinians were now fully backed by the world community with four major rights: the right of return, the right of self-determination, the right of struggle and the right to receive aid in their struggle." Ghayth Armanazi, "The Rights Of the Palestinians: The International Definition", Journal Of Palestine Studies, Spring 1974, 94-95

Well, there's my answer, and then.

Then it's gutless and as usual, no answer at all. HOW WOULD YOU REMOVE THE INTERLOPERS so the Palestinians can have their land again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then it's gutless and as usual, no answer at all. HOW WOULD YOU REMOVE THE INTERLOPERS so the Palestinians can have their land again?

I already answered this question, grant the Palestinians the right of return and grant the Palestinians the right of self-determination in obedience to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Then there will be true motions of peace between the Arabs and Israelis. Please remember, the Zionists are the aliens and colonialists.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By ethnic cleansing of Occupied Palestine of its non-Jewish population.

The Nakba (disaster/calamity suffered by indigenous non-Jewish Palestinians) that started with the establishment of Israel in 1948, never ended. The forcible displacement of the indigenous Palestinian people from their homes continues till this day.

Here is a fine article on this issue with ample references. Everyone, please take time to read this full article:

The Ongoing Nakba: The continuous forcible displacement of the Palestinian people

Here is another one:

The Nakba is a past and a present, a continuous and developing process of Zionist colonization

Of course,I expect some here to scream, "propaganda...", like they usually do, but the truth is not hard to see for those who are willing to see it.

Fantastic articles, XingWi! Thanks for sharing them.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

grant the Palestinians the right of return ... in obedience to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Wrong and a lie. The "right" of return doesn't exist - especially given the fact that hereditary refuge-dom is unheard of.

Please remember, the Zionists are the aliens and colonialists.

Wrong again. Jews have been living in the Middle East and in what is now Israel for thousands of years. As a matter of fact, about 50% of the current Israeli Zionist Jews, are of Middle Eastern descent. They have been ethnically cleansed from their homelands by Arabs about 70-60 years ago as a result of a rise of anti-Semitic pro-Nazi sentiment in the Arab world. Their children and grandchildren are now living their lives in Israel.

Edited by Erikl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wrong and a lie. The "right" of return doesn't exist - especially given the fact that hereditary refuge-dom is unheard of.

According to who? You? I call bull. The refugees are the dispossessed Arabs of Palestine. They were given the right of return immediately under Resolution 194 on December 11 1948. The UN has reaffirmed Resolution 194 EVERY year since 1949.

Wrong again. Jews have been living in the Middle East and in what is now Israel for thousands of years. As a matter of fact, about 50% of the current Israeli Zionist Jews, are of Middle Eastern descent. They have been ethnically cleansed from their homelands by Arabs about 70-60 years ago as a result of a rise of anti-Semitic pro-Nazi sentiment in the Arab world. Their children and grandchildren are now living their lives in Israel.

But were these Middle Eastern Jews... Palestinian Jews? Thus they are still aliens and colonialists!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to who? You? I call bull. The refugees are the dispossessed Arabs of Palestine. They were given the right of return immediately under Resolution 194 on December 11 1948. The UN has reaffirmed Resolution 194 EVERY year since 1949.

But were these Middle Eastern Jews... Palestinian Jews? Thus they are still aliens and colonialists!

How will you remove them? What RIGHT do you claim to remove them? Where will you place them? How much death and destruction is it worth to return Palestinian "refugees" to "their" land? What is your "solution"?
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According to who? You? I call bull. The refugees are the dispossessed Arabs of Palestine. They were given the right of return immediately under Resolution 194 on December 11 1948. The UN has reaffirmed Resolution 194 EVERY year since 1949.

You can call bull, while I can ask how come the UN have set a special definition for a Palestinian refugee, different than any other refugee, in a time there were tens of millions of refugees around the world (after WW2). For some reason, 600-400,000 refugees have grown to an astonishing 5-10 million Palestinian refugees, even though no one is making them leave anymore. How can refuge-dom be hereditary? This is unheared of anywhere in the political history. How come the Arab countries continue to lock Palestinians behind bars? How come the UN doesn't call upon these countries to assimilate and naturalize people with the exact same language, religion and culture (Muslim Arabs)?

But were these Middle Eastern Jews... Palestinian Jews? Thus they are still aliens and colonialists!

Are the Palestinians themselves Palestinians? Most of the people you consider Palestinians have lived in other Arab countries more generations than they did in what you and the rest of the world consider Palestine.

Being that until 80 years ago there was no Palestine and no borders in the Middle East, and the definition of the UN for a Palestinian refugee is "a person who resided in Mandatory Palestine from 1946", then these Jews are no colonialists in any way possible.

Btw, this thread is again taken by another member off-topic to spread propaganda. This is pointless. Jews are not colonialists in the area, they haven't come here as colonialists, not in their motives and not in their end result. What's wrong? the apartheid analogy was refuted so you go wild?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.