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Erikl

Is Israel an Apartheid state?

320 posts in this topic

Behavior has real consequences. Ask any murderer on death row about that. It is not the fault of today's Jewish children that Arabs in the 1940's and earlier dealt with the new country of the Jews so shoddily. But that does not matter does it? Your arguments only ALWAYS return to the illegitimacy of the state of the Jews. Yet you never have the courage to speak aloud your real intention.

The real conflict between the Arabs and Jews arose from the alarming rate of Jewish immigration, land purchases, and the exclusion of Arab labour.

Imagine of America was suddenly invaded by Mexican immigrants that proceeded to radically change the whole country's demograph, began to buy our land, and those landowners began to only hire other Mexican migrants specifically targeting native borne American labourers complete exclusion from hire while also dispossessing them of home and land.

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The real conflict between the Arabs and Jews arose from the alarming rate of Jewish immigration, land purchases, and the exclusion of Arab labour.

Imagine of America was suddenly invaded by Mexican immigrants that proceeded to radically change the whole country's demograph, began to buy our land, and those landowners began to only hire other Mexican migrants specifically targeting native borne American labourers complete exclusion from hire while also dispossessing them of home and land.

Imagine if the anti Zionists here would actually describe their modern version of an end game for the state of Israel. Dare I say it? Their version of a "final solution" to the Jewish problem? If that seems overly inflammatory then prove me wrong with a reasoned and REALISTIC approach to ending this problem that leaves the Jews of Israel in a real homeland that is not destroyed demographically or physically by their enemies the Palestinians...

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Imagine if the anti Zionists here would actually describe their modern version of an end game for the state of Israel. Dare I say it? Their version of a "final solution" to the Jewish problem?

Dude, seriously? Just change the policy. I don't want anyone to die. <-- duh

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Dude, seriously? Just change the policy. I don't want anyone to die. <-- duh

Just change the policy that allows Jews to survive in the region. The Palestinians WILL NOT ALLOW THE JEWS TO EXIST IN PEACE anywhere in Palestine, ever....They say so at every opportunity. Why do you deny this? Why act as if it is not true? Those who support the Palestinians without addressing this issue are as culpable for what is coming as any arms merchant or corrupt politician.

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Just change the policy that allows Jews to survive in the region. The Palestinians WILL NOT ALLOW THE JEWS TO EXIST IN PEACE anywhere in Palestine, ever....They say so at every opportunity. Why do you deny this? Why act as if it is not true? Those who support the Palestinians without addressing this issue are as culpable for what is coming as any arms merchant or corrupt politician.

I deny it because it's not true. I read the polls of what the Palestinians think and want. Palestinians are beautiful innocent people. They're indigenous Semitic children. Of course their leadership is fighting for Palestine's last hopes of survival. Zionist policy is madness bro. Let us not pay attention to the neighbor that wants to do something instead of the neighbor that's doing it.

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Imagine if the anti Zionists here would actually describe their modern version of an end game for the state of Israel. Dare I say it? Their version of a "final solution" to the Jewish problem?

RAMALLAH, (PIC)– Nearly 1518 Palestinian children were killed since the second Palestinian Intifada (uprising) in 2000, according to a Palestinian official report.

The report, issued by the Ministry of Information on Monday, affirmed that six thousand children were injured since the beginning of the Al-Aqsa Intifada 13 years ago.

The report came to mark the International Day for the Protection of Children in light of the Israeli brutal daily practices against Palestinian children.

The report confirmed that 9000 children under 18 were arrested since the 2nd uprising, including 881 children in 2012.

The Ministry said that 246 children under 18 are currently held in Israeli jails, including 47 children under 16.

The report stated that the children under 18 constitute 47.6 per cent of the total population.

http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/1518-palestinian-children-were-killed-since-2nd-intifada/

If that seems overly inflammatory then prove me wrong with a reasoned and REALISTIC approach to ending this problem that leaves the Jews of Israel in a real homeland that is not destroyed demographically or physically by their enemies the Palestinians...

Return to 1967 borders! Dismantle the settlements! Cease the occupation! Pay reparations to the refugees! Let Palestine be a free viable state!

Or dissolve the "JEWISH democracy" into a multicultural democracy and grant the right of return to all Palestinians!

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RAMALLAH, (PIC)– Nearly 1518 Palestinian children were killed since the second Palestinian Intifada (uprising) in 2000, according to a Palestinian official report.

The report, issued by the Ministry of Information on Monday, affirmed that six thousand children were injured since the beginning of the Al-Aqsa Intifada 13 years ago.

The report came to mark the International Day for the Protection of Children in light of the Israeli brutal daily practices against Palestinian children.

The report confirmed that 9000 children under 18 were arrested since the 2nd uprising, including 881 children in 2012.

The Ministry said that 246 children under 18 are currently held in Israeli jails, including 47 children under 16.

The report stated that the children under 18 constitute 47.6 per cent of the total population.

http://occupiedpales...e-2nd-intifada/

Return to 1967 borders! Dismantle the settlements! Cease the occupation! Pay reparations to the refugees! Let Palestine be a free viable state!

Or dissolve the "JEWISH democracy" into a multicultural democracy and grant the right of return to all Palestinians!

This is collective punishment of populations of innocent children, and people act like they can't understand the problem we have with this? Collective punishment isn't okay just so long as Israel does it. It's not okay. ever.

International coalition forces sent in to guarantee security for 100 years eliminates the only good reason Israel has not to stop that policy. Someone should hammer such an idea out and put it on the table whether Israel accepts it or not but I'm sure we can all agree that Israel is too militant, too nationalistic too wrapped up in its own ethnicity, history, race and religion to ever let that happen.

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I deny it because it's not true. I read the polls of what the Palestinians think and want. Palestinians are beautiful innocent people. They're indigenous Semitic children. Of course their leadership is fighting for Palestine's last hopes of survival. Zionist policy is madness bro. Let us not pay attention to the neighbor that wants to do something instead of the neighbor that's doing it.

You know, the thing with you is that I honestly believe you might be horrified or at least incensed if my prediction came true about Palestinian intentions. But what difference would it make then? On the one hand I thoroughly believe that there will never be another complete diaspora but on the other, that does not mean that immense suffering will be avoided either. I accept that some, perhaps most of those Palestinians are as you describe, but those who lead them are evil incarnate. And yes...I really believe that to be true.

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Posted (edited)

More to read, HERE

LIAR!

Wow? really? http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com is now a realiable source? lol. And you claim that I'm doing "hasbara". So wikipedia is not legit, but a totally biased website is? Your credibility is absurd.

In the aftermath of the 1948 war, British Mandate of Palestine was de facto divided into three parts: the State of Israel, the Jordanian-held West Bank, and the Egyptian-held Gaza Strip.

Of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war,[28] over 80% fled or were expelled; some 156,000 remained.[29]

Benny Morris says:

Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders).

But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.[30]

Arab citizens of Israel are largely composed of these people and their descendants.

Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions that were recently made significantly more stringent.

Benny Morris, a New Historian beloved by the pro-Palestinian lobby (being that he's an Israeli New Historian, which makes a good case for them to say "see? Israelis say these things themselves"), has clearly stated that the majority of the Palestinians left as a result of the war itself. And why wouldn't they? remember the entire region is sorrounded by people of the same religion, culture and language, and at the time only 30 years were passed since the region was divided between the colonial powers - most of the Arabs living in Mandatory Palestine had grown up in the Ottoman Empire where they were free to move from Jerusalem to Damascus to Baghdad, as they were all unified under the same country.

Jews, on the other hand, had nowhere to go - this is why you don't see hundreds of thousands of Jews fleeing from Mandatory Palestine like the Arab did. If anything, the Jews were fleeing from the Arab countries because of antisemitic persecutions by their own governments.

The threat of genocide to the Jews living in Mandatory Palestine and in the rest of the Middle East were very real, judging by the following quotes:

In 1948, about 38,000 Jews lived in Libya.[42][43] A series of pogroms started in Tripoli in November 1945; over a period of several days more than 130 Jews (including 36 children) were killed, hundreds were injured, 4,000 were left homeless, and 2,400 were reduced to poverty. Five synagogues in Tripoli and four in provincial towns were destroyed, and over 1,000 Jewish residences and commercial buildings were plundered in Tripoli alone.[19] The pogroms continued in June 1948, when 15 Jews were killed and 280 Jewish homes destroyed.[44]

The fate of Libyan Jews was shared by the fate of all Jews in Arab lands - as can be seen, years before the Israeli-Arab war started. Jews were massacred in Iraq by 1941 in a series of pogroms called Farhud. Jews were also massacred in Syria, in Egypt and all Arab countries. And then you have the threats made by the representative of all the Arab countries, Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's first secretary-general, in 1947, BEFORE the war:

(6) … The "practical and effective means" contrived and advocated by the Arab States were never envisaged as being limited by the provisions of the Charter; indeed, the Secretary-General of the Arab League was thinking in terms which are quite remote from the lofty sentiments of San Francisco. "This war," he said, "will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades."[8]

http://www.meforum.o...genocide-threat

And by leader of the Palestinian Arabs themselves and founder of the Palestinian national movement, Haj Amin Al-Husseini, on the eve of the 1948 war:

Arise, o sons of Arabia. Fight for your sacred rights. Slaughter Jews wherever you find them. Their spilled blood pleases Allah, our history and religion. That will save our honor.

http://en.wikipedia....min_al-Husseini

And what did the Arabs do after the war ended, while controlling the West Bank and East Jerusalem:

Jewish holy sites were damaged and sometimes destroyed.[4] According to Raphael Israeli, 58 synagogues were desecrated or demolished in the Old City, resulting in the de-Judaization of Jerusalem.[5][6][7] The Western Wall was transformed into an exclusive Muslim holy site associated with al-Buraq, and a road sign in Arabic was affixed to the ancient ashlar stones.[8] 38,000 Jewish graves in the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives were systematically destroyed, and Jews were not allowed to be buried there.[5][6] Following the Arab Legions expulsion of the Jewish residents of the Old City in the 1948 War, Jordan allowed Arab-Muslim refugees to settle in the vacated Jewish Quarter.[9] Later, after some of these were moved to Shuafat, migrants from Hebron took their place.[10] During the 1960s, as the quarter continued to fall into decay, Jordan planned to turn the quarter into a public park.

Arab_Legion_soldier_in_ruins_of_Hurva.jpg

An Arab Legion soldier in ruins of Hurva Synagogue

http://en.wikipedia....nian_occupation

The Arabs themselves, just few years after the war, when they weren't busy in spreading lies and propaganda, admitted of their true intentions regarding the 1948 War and why many Palestinians left:

The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Abd er-Rahman Azzam Pasha, published numerous declarations assuring the Arab peoples and all others that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade for the Arab armies. Azzam Pasha’s statements pointed out that armies were already on the frontiers and that all the millions that the Jews had spent on land and on economic development would surely be easy booty for the Arabs, since it would be a simple matter to throw the Jews to the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea. As the time for the British withdrawal drew nearer, the zeal of the Arab League was redoubled. Meetings and conferences took place almost daily and burning calls and appeals were issued. Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine urging them to leave their land, homes and property and go to stay temporarily in neighbouring, brotherly States, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down. The Palestinian Arabs had no choice but to obey the ‘advice’ of the League and to believe what Azzam Pasha and other responsible men in the League told them – that their withdrawal from their lands and their country was only temporary and would end in a few days with the successful termination of the Arab ‘punishment’ action against Israel.

-Habib Issa, ‘Al Huda’ (a Lebanese newspaper , June 6, 1951).

http://cojs.org/cojs...,_June_6,_1951.

Show me, one single quote like that from such high ranking people among the Zionist leadership. You can't. All your accusations are based on conspiracy theories made up by the same people who called for the genocide of the Jews. There is no real proof of real propaganda and racist motivations on behalf of Zionist leadership that can be used as evidence of what you accuse Israel of. And it's not because of some attempts to hush it up - it's because none of it is true. You dare to call me a liar? look at the people and agendas you claim to represent. Look at the ugly truth that is the vile antisemitism, irreconcilable racism and hatred of the Palestinian cause against Jews - that is the real reason for not having peace. This is the real reason why there is still no Palestinian state.

Chew on that, then come and preach to us about how evil and sinister Israel is, how wrong Israel do to the Palestinians and to the Arabs.

Let's continue shall we?

What did the Zionists officially say, in 1948, in their official papers, that they signed by the dozens, and to this day and age is seen as the backbone of each and every law in Israel:

in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. We extend our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

http://en.wikipedia....of_Independence

This was written in Israel's Israeli Declaration of Independence, and singed in May 14th, 1948, by 37 Zionists leaders, some of them of which became the Prime Ministers in the decades following Israel's independence.

And today, Arabs in Israel as citizens of Israel enjoy rights they don't have anywhere in the Middle East. We didn't put them in camps as eternal refugees, as opposed to their brethren that were oh so eager to invade young Israel to assist in the mass slaughter of Jews they were planning. Israeli Palestinians were only 156,000 just sixty five years ago - today the are ten fold of this number, and 1 in 5 Israeli citizen is a Palestinian. Arabic is an official language in Israel. 10% of Israeli members of parliament are Palestinians. There are several Israeli Palestinian political parties represented in the Israeli parliament. Israeli Palestinians are free to work, study and get medical treatment anywhere in the country. They are free vote and get elected, and they do. Is there some sort of unofficial discrimination against Israeli Palestinians, based on some 90 years of bad blood between Jews and Arabs? ofcourse. But it's no different than how Arabs are treated in France or how African-Americans are treated TODAY in the USA. Is that remotely close to what you're trying to portray? hell no.

On the other hand, the side your lobbying here in this thread obeys none of the so called morals and values you lyingly accusing Israel of breaking.

Your entire moral backbone in this case is rotten to the ground, your entire case has no credibility what so ever.

Edited by Erikl
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You know, the thing with you is that I honestly believe you might be horrified or at least incensed if my prediction came true about Palestinian intentions. But what difference would it make then? On the one hand I thoroughly believe that there will never be another complete diaspora but on the other, that does not mean that immense suffering will be avoided either. I accept that some, perhaps most of those Palestinians are as you describe, but those who lead them are evil incarnate. And yes...I really believe that to be true.

If there wasn't a media blackout on the Palestinians, their intentions wouldn't be so easy to mangle in the Zionist-approved coverage we get over here. Anger is to be expected and that's why we agree that security mechanisms must be in place, and without Israel and Palestine providing it as they're hardly objective arbiters in this.

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Albert Einstein and other prominent Jewish Americans warned the world of the rise of Israeli fascism and the menace to peace and liberty, that the Zionist leaders like Begin and his Freedom Party (known today as the Likud ) represented. It may be that Israel today is not an apartheid state as defined by the South African experience, but it appears that it has allowed itself to become a fascist one.

Or perhaps one can argue that Einstein and his co-signers were duped and unwittingly buying into the lies of the Arab propaganda which was generated back then when they wrote their piece on Israeli fascism in 1948. :yes:

___________________________

New Palestine Party. Visit of Menachen Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed.

by Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, Sidney Hook, et.al.

TO THE EDITORS OF NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ,

HANNAH ARENDT,

ABRAHAM BRICK,

RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO,

ALBERT EINSTEIN,

HERMAN EISEN, M.D.,

HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D.,

H.H. HARRIS,

ZELIG S. HARRIS,

SIDNEY HOOK,

FRED KARUSH,

BRURIA KAUFMAN,

IRMA L. LINDHEIM,

NACHMAN MAISEL,

SEYMOUR MELMAN,

MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D.,

HARRY M. OSLINSKY,

SAMUEL PITLICK,

FRITZ ROHRLICH,

LOUIS P. ROCKER,

RUTH SAGIS,

ITZHAK SANKOWSKY,

I.J. SHOENBERG,

SAMUEL SHUMAN,

M. SINGER,

IRMA WOLFE,

STEFAN WOLFE.

New York, Dec. 2, 1948

- A letter to The New York Times. Saturday December 4, 1948 by Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, Sidney Hook, et.al.

New Palestine Party. Visit of Menachen Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed. A letter to The New York Times, published in the "Books" section (Page 12) of Saturday December 4, 1948

This work is assumed to be released into the public domain as a public manifesto or open letter which is not known to be licensed.

Creative Commons license: Public Domain

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Albert Einstein and other prominent Jewish Americans warned the world of the rise of Israeli fascism and the menace to peace and liberty, that the Zionist leaders like Begin and his Freedom Party (known today as the Likud ) represented. It may be that Israel today is not an apartheid state as defined by the South African experience, but it appears that it has allowed itself to become a fascist one.

Or perhaps one can argue that Einstein and his co-signers were duped and unwittingly buying into the lies of the Arab propaganda which was generated back then when they wrote their piece on Israeli fascism in 1948.

Nice try, but as explained previously in this thread, Einstein and many other Zionists were Labor zionists, which back then was the mainstream of Zionism. Revisionist Zionism was harshly persecuted by the Labor Revisionists. There was a huge strife between the two forms, culminating to an almost civil war between the Haganah and Irgun in the Altalena affair.

So it's very easy to find such quotes at the time. Your attempt to spin it to bash Israel as fascist is a demagogue.

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~snip

So it's very easy to find such quotes at the time. Your attempt to spin it to bash Israel as fascist is a demagogue.

Ahhh ... the irony of lies ....

>

Zionists Manipulate Public Forums on the Internet

link

970999_10152861102150475_196286718_n.jpg

~

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What's amatter Third...da JOOOS at it again? Beware the 6 million :w00t:

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What's amatter Third...da JOOOS at it again? Beware the 6 million :w00t:

Sorry buddy ... that number is wrong and inaccurate ... even ol'Max admits as such ... :yes:

Jews, God, and History

by Max I. Dimont

From ancient Palestine through Europe and Asia, to America and modern Israel, Max I. Dimont shows how the saga of the Jews is interwoven with the story of virtually every nation on earth.

Chapter twenty eight 'The Brown-Shirted Christ Killers'

goodreads link

The First Holocaust features an amazing collection of press clippings and propaganda articles dating back to the late 19th century that make claims of the suffering and imminent extermination of European Jewry. Among such articles we find that Jews have, dozens of times before WWII, invoked the cabalisitc “6,000,000″ number as the amount of Jews on the verge of death and destruction during various periods of turmoil and conflict in Europe and Russia. Undoubtedly, this book exposes the deliberate fraudulence of these sinister Zionist campaigns and media blitzes — long before Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in 1933 — designed to elicit public sympathy and financial support for Jewish political ambitions, principally the establishment of the State of Israel.

The obsessive invocation of the cabalistic fable of “6,000,000 dead or dying Jews” dating back at least four decades prior to the events of WWII directly undermines and betrays the notion that 6,000,000 Jews perished in Europe between 1939-1945, as Jews have claimed. It was a lie the first time, and it is a lie today!

link

it does not mean it is any less of an insanity even if short of one ...

but it does bury the fact that more Christians of other denominations were murdered during that time ...

lets not forget about them ... please ...

~

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Sorry buddy ... that number is wrong and inaccurate ... even ol'Max admits as such ... :yes:

Jews, God, and History

by Max I. Dimont

Chapter twenty eight 'The Brown-Shirted Christ Killers'

goodreads link

link

it does not mean it is any less of an insanity even if short of one ...

but it does bury the fact that more Christians of other denominations were murdered during that time ...

lets not forget about them ... please ...

~

The "six million" I was referring to was the approximate Jewish population of Israel today. I was being funny - or so I thought - about how much emphasis folks tend to put on the potential dangers caused by this relative handful of human beings in one of the tiniest countries on the planet. As to relative numbers of dead, that really isn't the point is it? No one specifically attempted to exterminate all Christians from Europe. But I fully agree that every death was a tragedy.

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Posted (edited)

So it's very easy to find such quotes at the time. Your attempt to spin it to bash Israel as fascist is a demagogue.

Einstein's words speak for themselves, just as Israeli actions speak for themselves:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine...

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

No spin needed why attempt to do injustice to the words of a true genius!

By the way here's some more demagoguery for you:

If it walks like fascism and talks like fascism

What does fascism look like, if not this? A response to Ari Shavit.

By Eyal Megged | Dec.07, 2012 |

Fascism? Not yet." I'm sorry, my friend Ari Shavit, but it is too late for your sigh of relief....

I would even dare to suggest that in Israel of the early 21st century, the fascist atmosphere with all its trappings - other than hatred of the Jews, which always serves as our decisive alibi for denial - reflects the public mood more than in the classic fascist regimes of the 20th century. Here, fascist politics is made in the very image and character of the nation, even more than it was made in the image and character of the Germans and Italians. Here, there is no disturbed, perverted and violent minority that is forcing its will on an entire culture - rather, this is the culture of the majority....

That being the case, let's say from now on that there is Jewish fascism in Israel and that it is also characterized by a persecution complex and by haughtiness that is rooted in a deep-seated sense of inferiority....

There are still among us shining examples that provide a light for the nations in the spheres of science, technology and agriculture. There are still among us Israelis whose kind souls are a source of pride. But we must not allow them to mislead us. If we aren't honest with ourselves, the ugly truth will flourish. And it will be this that finishes us off - this fascism and not the foreigner.

http://www.haaretz.c...remium-1.483207

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN
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The "six million" I was referring to was the approximate Jewish population of Israel today. I was being funny - or so I thought - about how much emphasis folks tend to put on the potential dangers caused by this relative handful of human beings in one of the tiniest countries on the planet. As to relative numbers of dead, that really isn't the point is it? No one specifically attempted to exterminate all Christians from Europe. But I fully agree that every death was a tragedy.

THat's where we differ in opinion ... because 'potential' here is very much misconstrued. They are a clear and present danger to the Palestinians living under a shroud of death and oppression.

~

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THat's where we differ in opinion ... because 'potential' here is very much misconstrued. They are a clear and present danger to the Palestinians living under a shroud of death and oppression.

~

Considering that the numbers of Palestinians is growing massively over the years I'd say they aren't succumbing to any extremes of "death and oppression". It's propaganda by the Palestinians trying to get the world community to give them what they cannot take on a battlefield. If they ever actually tried peaceful compromise the conflict might be ended.

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Considering that the numbers of Palestinians is growing massively over the years I'd say they aren't succumbing to any extremes of "death and oppression". It's propaganda by the Palestinians trying to get the world community to give them what they cannot take on a battlefield. If they ever actually tried peaceful compromise the conflict might be ended.

you try singing that tune staring down the barrel of rifles and guns and tanks and warplanes and listening to the whistles of missiles and the rumbles of bulldozers and breathing through tear gas and constantly walking under the glares and stares of soldiers itching to pull triggers and swinging batons and kicking steel plated boots.

~

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you try singing that tune staring down the barrel of rifles and guns and tanks and warplanes and listening to the whistles of missiles and the rumbles of bulldozers and breathing through tear gas and constantly walking under the glares and stares of soldiers itching to pull triggers and swinging batons and kicking steel plated boots.

~

Israel is not completely immune to world opinion. IF the Palestinians would come to the table without preconditions they would FORCE Israel to sit down and talk in a substantial way. The Palestinians hold the key.

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Posted (edited)

Israel is not completely immune to world opinion. IF the Palestinians would come to the table without preconditions they would FORCE Israel to sit down and talk in a substantial way. The Palestinians hold the key.

How do you 'talk' when all you're told to do is to only 'listen' ... if you wanna live ?

Preconditions ????

yes my man ... that has to have four question marks and even more ... if it were up to me ....

Even Israelis themselves have no choice in the matter ... listen only or you are not Israel ....

Opponents of targeted killings

Opponents of Israel's policy of targeted killings claim that it violates the laws of war. They feel these targeted killings are extrajudicial and feel that this violates the norms and values of a democratic society.[25]

Some question whether the IDF claims of no other way is correct and debate the secret process of IDF deliberations. Moreover many feel that actual injury and death of innocent bystanders, unintended as they may be, makes a strong claim against targeted killings. Some hold that such strikes do not reduce terrorism, but encourage more recruits to join militant factions, and are a setback to the Middle East peace process.[30]

In 2003, 27 Israeli Air Force pilots composed a letter of protest to the Air Force commander Dan Halutz, announcing their refusal to continue and perform attacks on targets within Palestinian population centers, and claiming that the occupation of the Palestinians "morally corrupts the fabric of Israeli society".[31] After more than 30 signed, 4 later recanted. One, an El Al pilot, was threaten with dismissal and another lost his civilian job.[31]

wiki link

remember poor Yitzhak ?

In 1994, Rabin won the Nobel Peace Prize together with Shimon Peres and Yasser Arafat. He was assassinated by right-wing Israeli radical Yigal Amir, who was opposed to Rabin's signing of the Oslo Accords. Rabin was the first native-born prime minister of Israel, the only prime minister to be assassinated and the second to die in office after Levi Eshkol.

He was voted number one in the Ynet poll of greatest Israelis.[2]

Who weeps for poor ol'Yitzhak ?

Knesset passes law revoking citizenship for treason

.....An Israel Beiteinu bill derided by critics as unfairly targeting Israeli Arabs passed into law late Monday night, with supporters welcoming it as a boost to internal deterrence against would-be terrorists and traitors.

.... “We have seen a series of bills that create delegitimization of Arabs in Israel as citizens,” he continued, adding that he “found it hard to believe that this law will be used in the case of Jewish terrorists.”

Yes ... just being Arab Israeli you have no voice but for answering accusations ... link

No No and No

The Citizenship Law amendment: Racist, just, or stupid?

The three “No”s

Here is some breaking news: Israel has been a Jewish and democratic country for some 60 years now. No legislation, no oath and no pledge of allegiance needed.

Its Jewishness is represented in its flag, its national anthem, its Hebrew calendar and in the Jewish majority that lives here. It is Jewish in its democracy and in its politics.

Therefore, seemingly, it makes sense to amend the Citizenship Law. But it’s also completely unnecessary.

There are three “No”s to the amendment passed Sunday in the cabinet.

First, it’s not the right time: Recently, a delegitimization movement is developing in the West, the part of the world to which Israel claims to belong. The timing of this amendment will only add fuel to the fire of this growing campaign against Israel.

Second, it’s not appropriate: The government has been making efforts to diminish the gap between Arab citizens of Israel – many of whom, unfortunately describe themselves as Palestinians and therefore as outsiders – and the Jewish majority. This amendment will drive them into the open arms of Palestinian identity and might even exclude them from the Israeli collective altogether.

The third “no” is the most important: it’s not the main issue. Who are these people who are supposed to take the oath? Who are these prospective citizens which this law targets? Is it worth the public outrage? But there are also three “Yes”s which the government stubbornly ignores. “Yes” to Jewish identity education, “yes” to teaching democratic values in school, and “yes” to the inclusion of non-Orthodox Jews in Israeli [religious] life.

link

Well not anymore .........

~edit : clean up of links

.

Edited by third_eye
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How do you 'talk' when all you're told to do is to only 'listen' ... if you wanna live ?

Preconditions ????

yes my man ... that has to have four question marks and even more ... if it were up to me ....

Even Israelis themselves have no choice in the matter ... listen only or you are not Israel ....

wiki link

remember poor Yitzhak ?

Who weeps for poor ol'Yitzhak ?

Yes ... just being Arab Israeli you have no voice but for answering accusations ... link

No No and No

link

Well not anymore .........

~edit : clean up of links

.

Gee....I guess Israel must eventually be destroyed by all the indignant longsuffering moral types who have such compassion for the poor innocent Palestinians. When the big bang comes it isn't going to matter any longer who you THINK is responsible.

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Gee....I guess Israel must eventually be destroyed by all the indignant longsuffering moral types who have such compassion for the poor innocent Palestinians. When the big bang comes it isn't going to matter any longer who you THINK is responsible.

Gee is right ... somehow I can't help but wonder why you think and believes this is all part of JC's plan and that JC approves of all this sitting pretty in his heavenly throne just waiting for the 'signs' to be fulfilled just so he is to 'come back'

I mean ... gee ... is right ...

~

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Gee is right ... somehow I can't help but wonder why you think and believes this is all part of JC's plan and that JC approves of all this sitting pretty in his heavenly throne just waiting for the 'signs' to be fulfilled just so he is to 'come back'

I mean ... gee ... is right ...

~

That part is simple, third... I just accept the fact that I am a creation and not the Creator. My reference for understanding Him is His word in the scripture and He "proves" His existence by prophecy. Obviously you do not believe and I'm okay with that - everyone has the choice and some simply cannot get past proof to faith. The mistake a lot of non-believers make though, is to assume that believers rabidly agree with everything that is happening. There is much in the word and the world that I cannot understand and from my limited moral outlook I cannot approve of but I understand that I...AM...limited. He isn't.
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