'The God Delusion'.. But is it true?

[laver]

'Gods do not need to be restricted to particular locations'

That may be true unless of course deities wanted to leave a message, a geometric message, that would only be found some time in the future, like now ! The geometry is very strong in the Holy Land and Eastern Mediterranean including the Great Pyramid in Egypt as a key part of the design.

To an atheist like Dawkins he will ignore aspects of spirituality that do not fit with his well publicised views that there are no deities or 'foreign' influences in our world and never have been.

In writings that come out of Ancient Egypt where Isis was so important she says when talking to Horus her son

'...sent for a while thy mighty sire Osiris and mightiest goddess Isis that they might help the world for all things needed them

Tis they who filled life full of life. Tis they who caused the savagery of mutual slaughtering of men to cease. Tis they who hallowed the precincts of the Gods their ancestors and spots for Holy rites. Tis they who gave men laws, food and shelter'

(Thrice Greatest Hermes by G.R.S.Mead)

You may note that in this ancient source 'spots for Holy rites' were apparently set out and 'hallowed' but were these set out to an ancient geometric design?

This may well prove to be the case and the Holy Land had holy sites long before the time of Jesus and even Abraham who we are told visited some of these sites and set up altars to his new God, the God of the Old Testament. But these sites were already sacred to earlier deities, Gods and Goddesses, and were not apparently just chosen at random but in accordance with ancient geometric principles and we can assume that this may have been done as a message.... a message for the future....

So this is perhaps a message that should be properly considered and not just ignored....

[laver]

In other words you pick what sites fit your preconceived conclusion.

The same sacred geometry has been applied to Woolworth stores.

http://www.badscienc...f-the-ancients/

No I did not pick the sites to fit my preconceived conclusion. In the case of one major alignment to the Holy Land the sites were chosen apparently by Jesus as noted in The Book of Revelations Chapters 1-3 and he tells us that there is a 'secret meaning' in his choice (Chapter1 verse20). The churches are lamps he said and lamps show the way.

Taking a few of many Woolworth stores that fit a pattern is hardly a valid comparison to ancient early sacred sites, and hardly a way to establish what is true which should be the objective of a site like UM. Sadly not always the case.

[Rlyeh]

No I did not pick the sites to fit my preconceived conclusion. In the case of one major alignment to the Holy Land the sites were chosen apparently by Jesus as noted in The Book of Revelations Chapters 1-3 and he tells us that there is a 'secret meaning' in his choice (Chapter1 verse20). The churches are lamps he said and lamps show the way.

Well that's how you said it works.

Taking a few of many Woolworth stores that fit a pattern is hardly a valid comparison to ancient early sacred sites, and hardly a way to establish what is true which should be the objective of a site like UM. Sadly not always the case.

Special pleading.

[shrooma]

Taking a few of many Woolworth stores that fit a pattern is hardly a valid comparison to ancient early sacred sites, and hardly a way to establish what is true which should be the objective of a site like UM. Sadly not always the case.

.

yes, sadly not always the case.

meaning-

if you swap the words 'woolworths' and 'ancient sacred sites' around, you still have exactly the same argument laver, but yet when they're your way round, somehow they become a fundamental truth, but when they are rlyeh's way round, they become an absurdity.

that's not really the way objectivity works if you ask me. that's how reasoning WORKS, by being able to draw sound conclusions when applied to both sides of the same argument, and to dismiss one side while claiming the other one to be true, is, quite literally, 'unreasonable'.

you're just using conformation bias in your arguments again laver, I really wish you could see that, and it's a shame that you can't.

[shrooma]

somehow, I thought this thread was about richard dawkins' ideas Vs spirituality, but, sadly, it didn't take too long before it turned into yet another thread where you push forward your idea of a great circle around the earth that connects a farm in wiltshire to jerusalem.

please don't laver, you'll just end up giving people the impression that you're one-dimensional, and that'd be a shame.....

Edited May 10, 2013 by shrooma

[docyabut2]

I agree all religions have been dangerous through out history and today to those that used the beliefs to oppress people,however I hold to what Jesus tried to teach that God is life, that life within that is all spiritualy one. Right no evidence, but we have learn through science and DNA that life is all one. We have the DNA from every living thing and element on the planet..

Edited May 10, 2013 by docyabut2

[laver]

Well that's how you said it works.

Special pleading.

If an ancient focal point has already been established it is a quite valid excercise to investigate if bearing lines from this location have a particular significance and the area that was chosen to be looked at was the Holy Land because of it's importance to human history particularly due to the Old and New Testaments accounts which named sites that can still be identified today. 2 sites of great importance to the story of Abraham did show up as having significant bearing angles so it is quite logical to then check other sites that might also be connected to these alignments from the focal point. This revealed strings of ancient sites that had origins dating back to thousands of years before the time of Abraham and these were clearly spiritual centres for people of the time. These two alignments raised serious questions as to whether there was evidence of some very old geometric design or were these just coincidental alignments.

The third whole degree bearing to the north of the Holy Land raised more questions. It comes from the same focal point as the other two alignments crossing Turkey and the Eastern Mediterranean before going to the Sea of Galilee in the Holy Land. Ancient sacred sites that lie on this bearing including at Mount Arbel next to Magdala on the shores of the Sea of Galilee but it then goes inland to other ancient sacred sites.

This third bearing line, 110 degrees, has other firm links to the stories of Jesus because as it crosses present day Turkey it identifies churches or locations chosen by Jesus to send messages to in the first 3 Chapters of the Book of Revelations as noted before.

To say that all this is in any way comparable with some alignment of a few selected supermarket stores is ridiculous.

Edited May 10, 2013 by laver

[laver]

somehow, I thought this thread was about richard dawkins' ideas Vs spirituality, but, sadly, it didn't take too long before it turned into yet another thread where you push forward your idea of a great circle around the earth that connects a farm in wiltshire to jerusalem.

please don't laver, you'll just end up giving people the impression that you're one-dimensional, and that'd be a shame.....

It is all about Dawkins' ideas and spirituality. Spirituality is much older than Abrahams god of the Old Testament which many people tend to overlook. It is also much older than the time of Jesus who clearly seems to have been aware of this. If the landscape geometry of ancient sacred sites is true it gives us evidence of a 'foreign' intelligence at work in our world from early times something that Jesus would seem to have known when he identified the geometry in the Book of Revelations.

[laver]

I agree all religions have been dangerous through out history and today to those that used the beliefs to oppress people,however I hold to what Jesus tried to teach that God is life, that life within that is all spiritualy one. Right no evidence, but we have learn through science and DNA that life is all one. We have the DNA from every living thing and element on the planet..

'God is life'

Which god is that surely not the god of Old Testament? most people today would consider his teachings as abhorrent....

Maybe earlier deities who gave 'life' to 'life'......(see earlier post on Isis and Osiris)...

[docyabut2]

John1-1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men

[GoldenWolf]

'God is life'

Which god is that surely not the god of Old Testament? most people today would consider his teachings as abhorrent....

Maybe earlier deities who gave 'life' to 'life'......(see earlier post on Isis and Osiris)...

Very, very abhorrent.

[ShadowSot]

I'm not an atheist who is against all forms of religion, but I don't see atheism in and of itself being a necessarily cold view of life. I don't see Dawkin's views as necessarily cold either.

Here's an example as to why: http://old.richardda...-miracle-enough

Though personally I've always been more of a fan of Phil Hellenes myself, when it comes to being poetic about life from a non-religious, atheistic perspective.

Edited May 11, 2013 by ShadowSot

[laver]

John1-1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men

John1:23 'Make the Lord's highway straight'

'In the beginning was the Word' but the beginning was long before the time of Jesus or even Abraham, thousands of years when people venerated earlier Gods and Goddesses and maybe for good reason because Abraham's deity was by modern standards of humanity not one to follow.

[docyabut2]

John1:23 'Make the Lord's highway straight'

'In the beginning was the Word' but the beginning was long before the time of Jesus or even Abraham, thousands of years when people venerated earlier Gods and Goddesses and maybe for good reason because Abraham's deity was by modern standards of humanity not one to follow.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men, it is saying God is life.

[laver]

Very, very abhorrent.

Yes abhorrent is a weak word to use ; Dawkins in 'The God Delusion' (TGD) gives his opinion in a description at the start of Chapter 2 page 51

'The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megolomanical, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully...'

He goes on in TGD to tell that Thomas Jefferson's opinion on the God of Moses was

'a being of terrific character - cruel,vindictive, capricious and unjust'

What a role model for some children to have to pray to....?

[laver]

In him was life; and the life was the light of men, it is saying God is life.

Well lets hope it was not the god of the Old Testament he was talking about, but light, yes, lamps may lead the way...

[SHaYap]

Any path is only a path, and there is no affront, to oneself or to others,

in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you . . .

Look at every path closely and deliberately.

Try it as many times as you think necessary.

Then ask yourself, and yourself alone, one question . . .

Does this path have a heart?

If it does, the path is good; if it doesn’t it is of no use.

Carfos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don juan

[laver]

Any path is only a path, and there is no affront, to oneself or to others,

in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you . . .

Look at every path closely and deliberately.

Try it as many times as you think necessary.

Then ask yourself, and yourself alone, one question . . .

Does this path have a heart?

If it does, the path is good; if it doesn’t it is of no use.

Carfos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don juan

Spirituality would seem a long way from Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' as he clearly believes there is nothing to be spiritual about.

Nice design tho and finding a path or way may be important particularly if there are lamps to show the way forward

[laver]

I'm not an atheist who is against all forms of religion, but I don't see atheism in and of itself being a necessarily cold view of life. I don't see Dawkin's views as necessarily cold either.

Here's an example as to why: http://old.richardda...-miracle-enough

Though personally I've always been more of a fan of Phil Hellenes myself, when it comes to being poetic about life from a non-religious, atheistic perspective.

Interesting stuff but there are many questions as to whether humans developed without any external influence from a 'foreign' intelligence be it gods or goddesses or not.

All creation myths seem to indicate that we were and the result is a quite exceptional species ruling the world sometimes for better but often for worse.

The important question is whether there is any real evidence of external influence in the distant past and this may soon be answered....

[SHaYap]

Spirituality would seem a long way from Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' as he clearly believes there is nothing to be spiritual about.

Nice design tho and finding a path or way may be important particularly if there are lamps to show the way forward

The design is by an artist whose name escapes me now .... I could get you the link if you're interested ...

[laver]

The design is by an artist whose name escapes me now .... I could get you the link if you're interested ...

Of course, all ways must be looked at if seeking the truth

[Perfection]

The professor's book presents his atheistic beliefs and points to the damage that he believes religion has done and is doing in the world. You might agree but does that mean that there is no place for spirituality in life ?

I think that religion needs to be an immovable rock that is too dumb & too big to get out of the way. Like a Pyramid or something. Peoples rise up & perish with all their knowledge but religion just stays in place like a rock.

Genesis says we were created like light inside a liquid dimension & that is what the technologically advanced aliens are saying also. Most creation scriptures say that in one way or another.The scientists are the only ones who have yet to grow up & see what reality is. It could take a thousand years for science to figure out that we're inside a liquid dimension. That would put science a thousand years behind religions. Religion is the rock of ages.

[libstaK]

I think that religion needs to be an immovable rock that is too dumb & too big to get out of the way. Like a Pyramid or something. Peoples rise up & perish with all their knowledge but religion just stays in place like a rock.

Wait, what? Religion needs to be too dumb and too big?

What exactly is your definition of dumb? And why does the world need something that is defined as being dumb?

Are you suggesting it should be inviolate?

Genesis says we were created like light inside a liquid dimension & that is what the technologically advanced aliens are saying also. Most creation scriptures say that in one way or another.The scientists are the only ones who have yet to grow up & see what reality is. It could take a thousand years for science to figure out that we're inside a liquid dimension. That would put science a thousand years behind religions. Religion is the rock of ages.

Can you please quote the part in Genesis where it says this?

Edited May 12, 2013 by libstaK

[SHaYap]

Of course, all ways must be looked at if seeking the truth

I'll need some time ... it's an old link and I gotta remember first which back up to dig at ...

[docyabut2]

Well lets hope it was not the god of the Old Testament he was talking about, but light, yes, lamps may lead the way...

I think most people even Christians don`nt know what Jesus was really all about. He was a rebel against the establishment of the Jewish temple and it teachings. There was a veil in the temple separating God from the people, is why he was so angry in knocking over the tables, only those who could paid for a offering and the sick were not allowed.When Jesus died on the cross that veil was torn in two.Jesus tried to teach God was the life within and no one is separated from the love of God.

Mark 15 -37

And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last.

38 Then the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.