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Sheep Smart

The Sphinx head - Is it the original?

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I think the Sphinx is far older than the pyramids and the head was recarved. All the other statues the heads seem to be in proportion to the body but not the Sphinx. The Sphinx also seems to have water damage which enforces my belief that it is older than the pyramids.

Wish they would allow someone to investigate what, if anything, is under the Sphinx.

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:o why!?

Maybe some one put a copyright complaint on the video, even if you had just embedded it from youtube.

You can check on youtube if the said video is still available or not. I guess, that too would have been removed.

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Why is the head of the Sphinx head disproportionate with its body?

The paws are 50 feet long (15m) while the entire length is 150 feet (45m).The head is 30 (10m) feet long and 14 feet (4m) wide. It is 200 feet long and 65 feet high. The head is noticably out of proportion in context with the body.

sphnxlt-fx.jpg

what it may have once looked like:

sphinxasliondvd1.jpg

I believe this particular debate gets intertwined in other threads within everything Egypt so it stands to reason that I separate it.

I TEND TO AGREE WITH SCHOCH ON THIS ONE. http://www.robertschoch.com/sphinxcontent.html

*Snip*

Say what?! Why that's just preposterous, Sheep Smart!

No way!

No way that It couldv'e have looked something like this before the days of Khufu......

sphinx.gif

or something like this.....

aha2.jpg

or even something like this, either....

djet2.jpg

http://www.atlantisq...redynastic.html

No way, no how!

You should just stick with Academic opinions and their current hypothesis, while ignoring fringe proponents like West and Schoch. Let's not think outside the box and propose wild hypothesis as they have done, despite their expertise. They're just trying to sell books and make a name for themselves. Just stick with the current academic mainstream hypothesis, in which Djedefre carved the sphinx in the image of his father Khufu, until they say otherwise.

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Posted (edited)

Now that Aquatus 1 pointed out in a quote, i should state that this is highly improbable since them bassets always lie down with their long sloppy ears and drooling. never do they sit erect. So, the sphinx could have never been a Basset hound. But, a Doberman Pinscher or a Great Dane or any other Hounds, it could have been a probability.

That's actually very true. Basset hounds never sit up with they can lie down. It's part of their advanced green, energy-saving technology. Like the 19 hours of napping a day. And not all inherent laziness. (Although to be fair, Guy, my current basset, like to lie on his back with his paws up in the air. It's still lying down, though. I'm afraid his solar panels were improperly placed.)

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph
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I think that those new people who introduce mace to Egypt might bring hieroglyphs as well.

Apperance of mace and hieroglyphs were cca around same time.

It's pretty much a certainty that hieroglyphic writing developed right there in Egypt.

Ancient examples of early proto-writing there have been found on wood and ivory inventory tags made in predynastic times to label tax payments/tribute booty.

These early forms can be seen evolving over time into the earlier hieroglyphic forms.

Harte

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It's pretty much a certainty that hieroglyphic writing developed right there in Egypt.

Ancient examples of early proto-writing there have been found on wood and ivory inventory tags made in predynastic times to label tax payments/tribute booty.

These early forms can be seen evolving over time into the earlier hieroglyphic forms.

Harte

Isn't that the same way the middle eastern Cruneiform evolved?

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Isn't that the same way the middle eastern Cruneiform evolved?

Yes.

Counting, and keeping up with the count of, money seems to be a strong influence on the ways of humans, eh?

Harte

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Now that Aquatus 1 pointed out in a quote, i should state that this is highly improbable since them bassets always lie down with their long sloppy ears and drooling. never do they sit erect. So, the sphinx could have never been a Basset hound.

That's actually very true. Basset hounds never sit up with they can lie down.

Blindness! Do you not see that your very own arguments support the BassetSphynx theory?

Would you yourselves not immortalize in ancient stone itself, something as utterly amazing and inconceivable as a basset hound that sat upright and attentively, as opposed to some common doberman or lion that sits so vainly all the the time?

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Blindness! Do you not see that your very own arguments support the BassetSphynx theory?

Would you yourselves not immortalize in ancient stone itself, something as utterly amazing and inconceivable as a basset hound that sat upright and attentively, as opposed to some common doberman or lion that sits so vainly all the the time?

Maybe the BassetSphinx drool was what powered Cladkings counterweights hanging off the North East cliff face? :whistle::innocent::no:

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Maybe the BassetSphinx drool was what powered Cladkings counterweights hanging off the North East cliff face? :whistle::innocent::no:

I've often thought that very thing!

--Jaylemurph

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Maybe the BassetSphinx drool was what powered Cladkings counterweights hanging off the North East cliff face? :whistle::innocent::no:

Okay, but what did they do with the immense volumes of extra drool?

Harte

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the Lake ... gentlemen ... you're forgetting the 'Lake' that used to be there in front of the sphinx ...

it all fits ...

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the Lake ... gentlemen ... you're forgetting the 'Lake' that used to be there in front of the sphinx ...

it all fits ...

You mean to say that the AE drank and bathed in drool???

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You mean to say that the AE drank and bathed in drool???

That's holy and divine drool to you ... do not raise the displeasure of the gods ... they find your lack of faith a source of annoyance ...

it is fermented drool if you must know :yes:

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It's pretty much a certainty that hieroglyphic writing developed right there in Egypt.

Ancient examples of early proto-writing there have been found on wood and ivory inventory tags made in predynastic times to label tax payments/tribute booty.

These early forms can be seen evolving over time into the earlier hieroglyphic forms.

Harte

65o66w.jpg

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65o66w.jpg

I can't speak to specifically Egyptian proto-writing, but there is evidence of (at times almost contemporary) proto-writing in proto-Elamite and several objects found in Eastern Europe (at least one or two have had threads here, and you may wish to look those up if you're interested -- keyword would be Vinca or Vincha).

--Jaylemurph

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Denise Schmandt-Besserat, Professor at the University of Texas at Austin, explains as follows the reasons why it is now held that writing spread from Mesopotamia to Egypt. Mesopotamia provides data that illustrates the step by step evolution of data processing from 8000 B.C. to the present. Clay counters of many shapes - tokens - were used to count goods in early agricultural communities from 8000 to 3000 B.C.. When the Mesopotamian script written on clay tablets appeared, coinciding with the rise of the state, about 3200 B.C., it visibly evolved from the token system. Tokens and writing had an identical function. Both served strictly for accounting the same types of goods, namely small cattle, cereals, oil, textiles, etc. The written signs were traced in the shape of tokens, bearing the same markings. The signs were organized using the same order as the previous tokens. Apparently, about 3100 B.C., the Mesopotamian state administration required that the names of the individuals, that either received or gave the goods stipulated, be entered on the accounting tables. These personal names could not easily be written logographically without the risk of overburdening the system. In order to solve the problem, the accountants resorted to writing individuals' names phonetically. This brought writing to a new course that, in the course of centuries or even millennia, developed into the cuneiform syllabaries (1 sign = 1 syllable) used by the Babylonians and Assyrians.

Thus, Mesopotamia is different from Egypt, where writing seems to appear suddenly, in that an uninterrupted sequence of data in Mesopotamia illustrates how accounting developed, requiring more and more sophisticated devices to deal with larger amounts of data with greater precision. Because Egypt provides yet no indication of any antecedents to writing, it was logical to assume that phonetic writing leap-frogged from Mesopotamnia to Egypt about 3100 B.C.. The borrowing was supported by the fact that the Egyptian rebus principle was identical to that of Mesopotamia and therefore seemed to be connected. Furthermore, there is evidence for a strong Mesopotamian influence in Egypt in the late fourth millennium B.C.. This is attested by the presence of typical Mesopotamian features of various nature. For example, a certain style of monumental architecture, the use of cylinder seals, specific decorative patterns featuring intertwined fantastic animals, and even the actual representation of the Mesopotamian Priest-king displayed with his unique status symbols. Because the reverse is not true, namely there is no trace of an Egyptian presence in Mesopotamia at that time, all seems to point to a flow of ideas from Mesopotamia to Egypt.

source

The glyphs themselves originated in Egypt, but the idea and style of composition came from Mesopotamia, which used a radically different form of characters (of course.)

Image of a few tags from the linked site:

egypt.jpeg

Harte

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I can't speak to specifically Egyptian proto-writing, but there is evidence of (at times almost contemporary) proto-writing in proto-Elamite and several objects found in Eastern Europe (at least one or two have had threads here, and you may wish to look those up if you're interested -- keyword would be Vinca or Vincha).

--Jaylemurph

Im aware of Vinča script. But thats different continent. Btw there is earlier script in China.

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Posted (edited)

@Harte

1. Why should I believe Larkin Mitchell/Denise Schmandt Besserat and not others Egyptologists? He didnt provide evidence what so ever.

2. From your site "Because Egypt provides yet no indication of any antecedents to writing, it was logical to assume that phonetic writing leap-frogged from Mesopotamnia to Egypt about 3100 B.C.. "

It wasnt logical at all. Again this wanna be famous Larkin Mitchell/Denise Schmandt-Besserat stressed out that that in Egypt there is no indication of any antecedents to writing. So he/she assume and conclude that phonetic writing came from Sumeria.

This is hilarious. On what basis? Because Sumerians,Akkadians, Assyrians came to Egypt. Egyptians came to Sumer too. Did Sumerian cuneiform influenced Indus valley script? I mean I see similarites, dont you?

3.Denise Schmandt-Besserat doesnt know that Sumeria influenced Egypt, culturaly, a lot more then she mentioned. Making me think that she doesnt know much about it.

I can give different explaination "why" then Denise. Sort as everyone trough history came to China. and not other way around. Except Ming voyages and similar. To me message is clear. You came to us- We are boss.

4. Tell me Harte, do you realy see similarites between Sumeria cuneiform and Egyptian hieroglyphs? Use common sense and logic to answer all this questions.

btw Denise just believe in this story. Same as Buddhists believe that they were once Platypus, Octopus and Giraffe.

Edited by the L

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Posted (edited)

Harte if so, what do you think, whats origin of mummies in Egypt? :w00t: America or Lybia? I mean there are Mummies in America.

Edited by the L

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@Harte

1. Why should I believe Larkin Mitchell/Denise Schmandt Besserat and not others Egyptologists? He didnt provide evidence what so ever.

2. From your site "Because Egypt provides yet no indication of any antecedents to writing, it was logical to assume that phonetic writing leap-frogged from Mesopotamnia to Egypt about 3100 B.C.. "

It wasnt logical at all. Again this wanna be famous Larkin Mitchell/Denise Schmandt-Besserat stressed out that that in Egypt there is no indication of any antecedents to writing. So he/she assume and conclude that phonetic writing came from Sumeria.

The earliest written language ever found is from Sumer.

In Sumer, they used the "rebus" style (like a rebus puzzle.)

In Egypt, they used the "rebus" style.

That's why it's logical.

Let us not assume that everything left from Ancient Egypt (or Sumer, for that matter) has been found.

The claim that an association is logical is not a claim that it is true.

Looking at your side of the coin, all you have is what a few fringies have written in an effort to sell books.

So, that's "logical?

This is hilarious. On what basis? Because Sumerians,Akkadians, Assyrians came to Egypt. Egyptians came to Sumer too. Did Sumerian cuneiform influenced Indus valley script? I mean I see similarites, dont you?

Possibly. The Indus script post-dates the earliest Sumerian, and trade between Mesopotamia, the Indus civilization, and the Egyptian civilization has been documented as far back as the earliest writing found in any of those societies.

3.Denise Schmandt-Besserat doesnt know that Sumeria influenced Egypt, culturaly, a lot more then she mentioned. Making me think that she doesnt know much about it.

An absurd statement. It is a short article in an e-mag. The scope of the article does not include all the various ways these cultures influenced each other.

4. Tell me Harte, do you realy see similarites between Sumeria cuneiform and Egyptian hieroglyphs? Use common sense and logic to answer all this questions.

Explained above.

btw Denise just believe in this story. Same as Buddhists believe that they were once Platypus, Octopus and Giraffe.

No, the article, and the opinion, follow a logical thought process. It could be wrong, obviously, but indications (right now) point to exactly the position held by Archaeology.

That could change. But what certainly wont change is the ridiculous and groundless claim that Egyptians came from some "island in the west," regardless of the evidence against it.

Harte

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Harte if so, what do you think, whats origin of mummies in Egypt? :w00t: America or Lybia? I mean there are Mummies in America.

The earliest signs of some of the procedures involved in ritual mummification are from Hierakonpolis, around 3500 BC.

Other than that, I've never looked at it.

Regarding America, the removal of organs and filling the body cavity, etc. was not part of any mummification process there that I'm aware of. But, I've not really looked into this too much.

Harte

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Harte if so, what do you think, whats origin of mummies in Egypt? :w00t: America or Lybia? I mean there are Mummies in America.

L, mummies can be formed naturally by prevailing climactic conventions, as has happened several times in South America and the American Southwest (there are even two being displayed in Germany now from the early 19th Century that were not deliberately created). No need to look for shared cultures in these instances.

--Jaylemurph

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Posted (edited)

Harte,

Mario Liverani found black mummy in Lybia dating 3500BC and its done as later Egyptians done theirs.

The earliest written language ever found is from Sumer.

In Sumer, they used the "rebus" style (like a rebus puzzle.)

In Egypt, they used the "rebus" style.

That's why it's logical.

R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz

'Le Temple de Karnak' Unpublished paper

The image is neither a rebus nor a cryptogram, it speaks simply as the evocation of an intuition. This can not in any case be transcribed into words without danger of leading to a concrete notion, be it an object, or a mental abstraction which may disguise the original intention. When, for example, we take for the word horizon' the apparent line separating the land (or sea) from the sky, this visible line is an abstraction, for it is only an appearance; it has no material reality. But in formulating the notion by the word 'horizon' we mentally see this line; we are obliged to see it or the word would make no sense to us. By contrast, the Egyptians represented the horizon by the image of the sky between two mountains —thereby evoking the moment of the sun's appearance rising out of the darkness of the morning and returning in the evening. This is a function, a vital state. The sign 'horizon' as image is positive, concrete; there is nothing abstract or conventional about it. But what it evokes is an 'intuition', that of the function of 'becoming', of Being emerging from nothingness. For it would again be reasoning, hence concretisation of the intuition were it said: 'the sun was merely concealed from view....

Therefore, when Champollion and the philologists after him declare that the ancients made use of certain images to stand for abstractions, this does not exactly accord with the mode of pharaonic thought, which is concerned with the evocation of intuitions that, for us, are abstractions, but to the ancients were 'states of Being.

Looking at your side of the coin, all you have is what a few fringies have written in an effort to sell books.

So, that's "logical?

Who is fringies?

Walter Bryan Emery?

Let see.

Walter Bryan Emery (2 July 1902 – 11 March 1971)[1] was a British Egyptologist born in Liverpool, England....Diplomatic Service at Cairo in Egypt, his entire life was devoted to the excavation of archaeological sites along the Nile Valley.[3]

After preliminary training at the Liverpool Institute of Archaeology, he went to Egypt for the first time as an assistant on the staff of the Egyptian Exploration Society expedition in 1923. There he aided in the excavation of Amarna (the ancient city in Middle Egypt founded by the pharaoh Akhenaton).[3]

By 1924, he was already Field Director of Sir Robert Mond's excavations at Thebes for the University of Liverpool. He made several clearings, restorations and protective operations into a score of tombs at Sheikh Abd el-Gurnah. Between 1924 and 1928, continuing as Director of the Mond Expedition, he worked on excavations at Nubia, Luxor and Thebes.[4]

In 1929 he was appointed Field Director of the Archaeological Survey of Nubia under the auspices of the Egyptian Government Service of Antiquities, with authority to explore and excavate all ancient sites in Nubia which were soon to be flooded after the erection of the Aswan Dam.[5] Working at Quban, Ballana and Qustul, he excavated the mysterious X group of tombs dating to the 3rd to 6th century A.D. He was assisted in his work by his wife, Molly.[4] The completion of the excavations of the fortress at Buhen ended his work in Nubia.[3]

He then became director of fieldwork at Luxor and Armant. During the years 1935 to 1939 he was the director of the Archaeological Survey of Nubia. During these years as director, Emery also investigated several early dynastic tombs at Saqqara. While at Saqqara he made the significant discovery of a "zoo" of mummified animal remains.

Following the years of interruption by the war and his service as a diplomat, Emery worked in the Sudan (Buhen, Qasr Ibrim). In 1964, he returned once more to Saqqara where he discovered the "enclosure of the sacred animals".[5] In 1970 the discovery was announced of a "mausoleum of the sacred cow," one of the most important finds in the annals of Egyptology.[3]

Emery obtained the Chair of Egyptology at University College London in 1951, and was a professor of Egyptology in London from 1951 to 1970.[4] He was elected to the British Academy Fellowship in 1959. His principal publications are Great tombs of the 1st dynasty, (3 volumes) 1949-58; Archaic Egypt, 1961; and Egypt in Nubia, 1965.[6]

Emery died in March 1971.

Bibliography [edit]

Emery published a number of works, including:

1938 The Tomb of Hemaka, Cairo

1939 Hor-aha, Cairo

1949 Great Tombs of the First Dynasty I, Cairo

1954 Great Tombs of the First Dynasty II, London

1958 Great Tombs of the First Dyansty III, London

1961 Archaic Egypt, Edinburgh

1962 A Funerary Repast in an Egyptian Tomb of the Archaic Period, Leiden

http://en.wikipedia....ter_Bryan_Emery

or

Georges Posener?

Georges Posener (born September 12, 1906 in Paris, died May 15, 1988) is a French Egyptologist.

A graduate of the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, section IV in 1933, he was a resident of the French Institute of Oriental Archaeology in Cairo from 1931 to 1935 and special advisor to the institute until the Second World War. At the end of it, he was appointed Director of Studies at the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, until 1978, while a professor at the Collège de France from 1961 to 1978 professor of philology and Egyptian archeology.

Since 1969 he is a member of the Academy of Inscriptions and Belles-lettres.

This is google translation from french wiki.

http://fr.wikipedia....Georges_Posener

Or should I trust some Denise and e mag article?

But what certainly wont change is the ridiculous and groundless claim that Egyptians came from some "island in the west," regardless of the evidence against it.

Harte

No one claim that.

I connect more logical things then Denise, e magazine and you.

Which is that hieroglyphs appears around same time as mace in Egypt.

Mace didnt exist in any cultures before Egyptian civilization rise. Therefore thats called logic.

Rebus or not they (sumerian and ae script) are nothing similar. You dont need to be that smart. As Champollion stressed out, lesser you try to understand hieroglyphs you get better results. Its symbolism. Yet try to understand cuneiform. And push hard. You ll see difference.

To conclude. I will belive to two well known Egyptologists and my gut then Denise and Harte. Sorry.

Edited by the L

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L, mummies can be formed naturally by prevailing climactic conventions, as has happened several times in South America and the American Southwest (there are even two being displayed in Germany now from the early 19th Century that were not deliberately created). No need to look for shared cultures in these instances.

--Jaylemurph

See above post.

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