Should we allow Israel to drag us into a war?

[Clarakore]

It seems that Israel is eager to draw us into a conflict, one we can little afford at this time, so what is the general opinion on these matters as it pertains to our foreign policy?

Edited May 7, 2013 by Leave Britney alone!

[Mr.United_Nations]

Israel can easily defend itself, Syria, Iraq and others a weak military wise

[Ashotep]

Well I would have to say its according to what happened, if they were attacked first and who it was that attacked them. Israel has a good army and can defend themselves from most countries in the region.

EDIT: I will add if they start it they are on their own. Unless they had a very good reason.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Hilander

[+and-then]

If Britain or Australia, France or Canada were attacked I say we should help them. If they felt the need to pre-empt an attack to save mass casualties of their citizens I'd say yes, help them. Israel is as good or better ally to the US as any of them.

[Clarakore]

What has Israel ever done for us?

[Corp]

All kind of depends on the situation really. If Israel wants to pick a fight just because, well then they're on their own. On the flip side if they suddenly get jumped out of the blue and it looks like they'd go down hard then I wouldn't object stepping in and helping them. That said as it's been mentioned Israel has the most powerful military in the region so there'd need to be something special going on to warrent the need for direct military aid.

[aztek]

All kind of depends on the situation really. If Israel wants to pick a fight just because, well then they're on their own. On the flip side if they suddenly get jumped out of the blue and it looks like they'd go down hard then I wouldn't object stepping in and helping them. That said as it's been mentioned Israel has the most powerful military in the region so there'd need to be something special going on to warrent the need for direct military aid.

but they wont be on their own. we need a stronghold in ME. and we invested quite a lot in israel. israel acts like a little dog, barks at everyone, as long as he is next to his owner. it can bite some, if we let it, but we hold the leash, we wont let it attack dogs that can hurt it or the owner,

it is in constant war with palistine, but it reminds me of costant battle between a dog and its fleas. owners don't pay much mind, as long as it is contained, but if lots of flees attack, and dog can't handle them by itself the owner will give it a bath.

nazi army also was most advanced in the world at that time, didn't help them much.

[supervike]

What has Israel ever done for us?

Bagels.

Nuff said.

[shrooma]

What has Israel ever done for us?

.

jackie mason.

mel brooks.

sasha baron cohen.

sarah silverman.

lenny bruce.

gilda radner.

seth rogen.

peter sellers.

albert einstein.

bagels.

;-)

[MiskatonicGrad]

Do you have some kind of quote or link to justify this question? I have not heard anyone from Isreal ask us to put "boots on the ground". usually we get in the way from letting Israel finish the job hence the mess they have over their now. after each conflict we make Israel give back the land they have taken (golan hieghts, gaza strip, sinai pennisula).

but really you need to go to israel sometime just the women alone will justify anything they ask of us (freaking HOT) and it must have something to do with living in the middle of people who want to kill you. they know how to have a good time.

[ninjadude]

.

jackie mason.

mel brooks.

sasha baron cohen.

sarah silverman.

lenny bruce.

gilda radner.

seth rogen.

peter sellers.

albert einstein.

bagels.

;-)

Not a single one has anything to do with Israel. Or was even born there. Are you guys for real? You seem to be saying we have to bend over for Israel because there are jews in the US. What a ridiculous argument.

[MiskatonicGrad]

Not a single one has anything to do with Israel. Or was even born there. Are you guys for real? You seem to be saying we have to bend over for Israel because there are jews in the US. What a ridiculous argument.

I can't believe I'm saying this i agree with you I rarely agree with you. except for the bagels I would go to war over bagels!

Edited May 8, 2013 by MiskatonicGrad

[Clarakore]

Do you have some kind of quote or link to justify this question? I have not heard anyone from Isreal ask us to put "boots on the ground". usually we get in the way from letting Israel finish the job hence the mess they have over their now. after each conflict we make Israel give back the land they have taken (golan hieghts, gaza strip, sinai pennisula).

but really you need to go to israel sometime just the women alone will justify anything they ask of us (freaking HOT) and it must have something to do with living in the middle of people who want to kill you. they know how to have a good time.

Be honest, Israel cannot take on Iran without us.

Spare us the attempt to instill paranoia over Iran in the explanation.

If the answer is going to be, yes they can, they have nukes, they also know how much instability that will cause, instability the world does not want especially affecting their markets.

They might not need our permission to nuke Iran but they might still want it, we won't ever give it. Thus a conventional war with us in it to help them might make things easier.

China and Russia going in on Iran's side will not make anything clean or easy.

Israel might be the source of stability in the region but also has the potential to become the source of instability with the flip of a switch they have their hand on.

Iran is not going to stop working on their nuke. Israel is going to go in without our permission if they get closer.

We keep giving them promises of cooperation mixed with signals of holding back. We need to reverse that equation so that we tell them how much nuking Iran would cause world suffering.

Iran joining the nuclear club is not the end of the world. Those who have joined show great restraint, they know if they use theirs first, they will be nuked in return.

Israel is intent on confronting Iran, most likely in a conventional war before Iran develops a functional nuclear program, so they will need our help in doing that.

Israel cannot take on Iran alone.

[keithisco]

Do you have some kind of quote or link to justify this question? I have not heard anyone from Isreal ask us to put "boots on the ground". usually we get in the way from letting Israel finish the job hence the mess they have over their now. after each conflict we make Israel give back the land they have taken (golan hieghts, gaza strip, sinai pennisula).

but really you need to go to israel sometime just the women alone will justify anything they ask of us (freaking HOT) and it must have something to do with living in the middle of people who want to kill you. they know how to have a good time.

A question, per se, needs no justification to be promulgated. It is a standalone enquiry to elicit a response or discussion (as in this thread).

[shrooma]

Not a single one has anything to do with Israel. Or was even born there. Are you guys for real? You seem to be saying we have to bend over for Israel because there are jews in the US. What a ridiculous argument.

.

too much coffee.....?

they are all jewish, and as far as i'm aware, jews originated from israel.

as for the 'what you guys seem to be saying' comment, I was saying nothing of the sort. please show me which part of my post gave you that impression and i'll be more than willing to amend it.

what I WAS saying, with all of them being comedians (with the exception of einstein, and you don't particularly strike me as the kinda guy who finds bagels funny), is that jewish people seem to be good at comedy.

and yes, I am 'real'.

although my post wasn't, it was humourous.

now, having said all that, my I suggest a nice, herbal tea.....?

:-)

Edited May 8, 2013 by shrooma

[Frank Merton]

I think the US (and the rest of the world too) should come to the defense of any country that is under attack, especially by terrorists and by nations that threaten nuclear attack, as well as by conventional invasion. As the world's leading power, the US has primary responsibility, but the obstruction it so often faces from others is reprehensible. World peace will never happen until this is universally accepted.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

What has Israel ever done for us?

[facetious reply] The aquaduct! [/facetious reply]

other then being the US' closest ally in the region?

[RavenHawk]

What has Israel ever done for us?

What have her enemies ever done for us?

[RavenHawk]

I voted “other” for both because the questions were either misleading or over simplistic. I don’t think Israel is eager to drag us into a war. I think she is eager to defend herself and if we don’t get out of the way, then we might as well join her. She is very capable of *finishing* on her own. For ourselves, we should just go to war for good measure. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. There is already instability in the region, attacking Israel would create more. That is why the first strike option is still active. Iran has thrown down the gauntlet and has threatened Israel time and time again. This is Egypt all over again. Nasser stated that he was going to kick the Jew back into the sea. Imanutjob has stated that the regime in Israel needs to be wiped off the map. There is no difference, history does repeat itself.

[RavenHawk]

All kind of depends on the situation really. If Israel wants to pick a fight just because, well then they're on their own. On the flip side if they suddenly get jumped out of the blue and it looks like they'd go down hard then I wouldn't object stepping in and helping them. That said as it's been mentioned Israel has the most powerful military in the region so there'd need to be something special going on to warrent the need for direct military aid.

Israel won’t be picking a fight “just because”, she’ll be putting an end to a threat. The one thing that gets me is this “let’s wait until they’re about to go down crap!” For one, you are correct in that she doesn’t need direct aid from us. But if the threat is perceived, it should be taken care of sooner than later. What is this Hollywood crap about not striking first? Everyone here does realize that if England and France had invaded Germany during the Phony War, that WWII would have never occurred? How many times will we get screwed over until we learn from history? Man will never be able to avoid hostilities, so let’s use it positively.

[RavenHawk]

What has Israel ever done for us?

This was expected…right?

[Clarakore]

This was expected…right?

[media=]

[/media]

What the H-double-LOL? You can't just get someone interested in something then cut it off just like that! Who was knocking on the door?

q:

[RavenHawk]

What has Israel ever done for us?

To finish my thought on this. For sure, the living conditions of the Palestinians are no worse than it was under Ottoman rule. In fact, it has been improving considerably with the presence of Israel. Israel has brought improvements that the Ottomans neglected. The Levant was just some backwater destination. Now it is a center of commerce. Imagine how much better it would be if they would stop trying to destroy Israel?!

[aztek]

.

too much coffee.....?

they are all jewish, and as far as i'm aware, jews originated from israel.

wow, i could not make this stuff up even if i wanted to, lol

[Clarakore]

To finish my thought on this. For sure, the living conditions of the Palestinians are no worse than it was under Ottoman rule. In fact, it has been improving considerably with the presence of Israel. Israel has brought improvements that the Ottomans neglected. The Levant was just some backwater destination. Now it is a center of commerce. Imagine how much better it would be if they would stop trying to destroy Israel?!

Loving the history, from what I understand the Mizrahi Jews and Arabs (who are both Semitic and look alike) lived in Palestine when it was under Ottoman in relative peace.

It was not until the arival of the Ashkenazi Jew, the European Jew, who less resembles the Mizrahi or the Arabs, that the contention between the two revved up. There was a massacre of Jews in the 1800s.

So from the perspective of the Palestinians their conditions under the Ottomans was vastly superior than to how they are being treated now by the Israelis.

The Ashkenazi Jews and other Israelis have put the Palestinians in a ghetto, behind walls, caused them great suffering, denied them medicine and other basics at times, and have denied them human rights, for shame.

A historical question of some modern relevamce is how the Jewish and Arab population coexisted in Palestine before the advent of European Zionism and settlement in Palestine. One hears constantly that before the appearance of Zionism in the late 19th century that the two peoples lived together peacefully. For most of modern times until the area with its majority Arab population was governed by the Ottoman Turks. Ottoman law generally protected the Jews and other minority peoples. An Arab revolt led by the Egyptians gained control of Palestine and other areas of the Levant (1830s). During that period, Palestine Arabs conducted a dreadful massacre of the Jews in Safed (1834). It is notable that the Palestinian pogrom occurred during the period that the Palestinians had thrown off Ottoman rule.

http://histclo.com/essay/war/ip/ott/safed1834.html

As you'll remember, the Ottoman Empire was a relatively good place to be for Jews in the 1400s and 1500s. Jews were second-class citizens under Muslim law, but mass violence against them was rarely heard of. Under Muslim leadership, Jews and Christians (dhimmis) had to pay higher taxes than their Muslim neighbors, and were denied to right to bear arms or engage in certain areas of commerce. In return, their life and property were safeguarded.

In the next few centuries, the position of the Jews deteriorated as the Ottoman Empire itself deteriorated. As European economic influence grew in the 1800s, European-style anti-Semitism spread through the Empire. Economic circumstances supported the spread of prejudice. The Jews in the Ottoman Empire, like their Christian counterparts, had begun receiving European education through newly-developed international religious institutions. Thus they were well-positioned to take advantage of the emerging capitalist economy. As European capitalism made greater and greater inroads into the Ottoman Empire, Jews were becoming serious economic competition for Muslims Slowly, European anti-Semitic literature started making its way through the region, influencing the state and individuals. However, at the same time, European-style emancipation and ideas about egalitarianism were also spreading through the region, raising Jews and Christians to the level of Muslims in the eyes of the Empire. Despite anti-Semitism, the general position of Jews actually improved through mid- to late-1800s.

Jews in the Ottoman Empire

Unfortantely, these accounts are not properly sourced.

Do you have any sources from scholars of our era or primary sources from that era for your claims?