Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
Raptor Witness

Where are the men who can move mountains?

61 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

We find several references to this power, mentioned by Jesus. Here is one ...

The Barren Fig Tree

18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry.19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, “No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you.” And at once the fig tree withered.

20Seeing this, the disciples were amazed and asked, “How did the fig tree wither all at once?”21And Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen.22“And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”

While generally assumed to be allegorical by most scholars and students, the example Jesus gave clearly wasn't an allegory. It was a real manifestation of supernatural power that astonished his Disciples.

So where are these men of whom Jesus spoke? If no human will ever attain this level of faith in all of history, why bother putting it out there as an example?

8719249274_d917aff267_z.jpg

Edited by Raptor Witness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Jesus himself, and all stories involving him, were the allegories. So you wouldn't say "Jesus clearly did not mean it as an allegory; he meant it literally" when the man speaking it was a representation of an idea himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So where are these men of whom Jesus spoke? If no human will ever attain this level of faith in all of history, why bother putting it out there as an example?

Perhaps to express how little faith most people have?

Just a guess.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it was possible, and still is but doubt clouds the mind.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Coptic Orthodox church traditions, there is the story of Simon the Tanner who moved a mountain during the 10th century, but that was after 3 days of non-stop fasting and prayers by all Copts: church clergy and laymen. The story is told here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_the_Tanner

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure about moving mountains, but according to Pat Robertson homosexuals can cause tornadoes, tsunamis, and earthquakes.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Coptic Orthodox church traditions, there is the story of Simon the Tanner who moved a mountain during the 10th century, but that was after 3 days of non-stop fasting and prayers by all Copts

.

I wonder why the pope can't do it?

I mean, his piety levels must be off the chart, right?

you'd think that as god's chosen here on earth, he'd at least be able to move molehills if not full mountains??

maybe that's why the last one quit, citing 'not being able to serve the church as he should due to health issues' as the reason, because he realised his mountain-moving days were behind him....?

;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I believe it was possible, and still is but doubt clouds the mind.

Perhaps then, doubt becomes a danger.

In the Coptic Orthodox church traditions, there is the story of Simon the Tanner who moved a mountain during the 10th century, but that was after 3 days of non-stop fasting and prayers by all Copts: church clergy and laymen. The story is told here:

http://en.wikipedia....imon_the_Tanner

Interesting, but not exactly what I had in mind. A mountain cast into the sea would create waves, which could be observed much further from the source. A big splash, in other words.

We see this picture repeated in the Book of Revelation, at the second trumpet. It then becomes a plague, poisoning the water.

Rev. Ch. 8

8The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood,9and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.

This passage appears to underline the previous teaching, as instead of a fig tree, part of the earth withers. There's no allegory in that. Power over the elements becomes very real, if you believe the story.

This isn't healing the sick or raising the dead that He is performing, this is something quite different, and He clearly gives permission to His followers to do the same.

So I must ask again, where are the men who can command the elements as Jesus taught?

Edited by Raptor Witness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last I checked, we weren't Jesus, son of God , blessed with a 100% divine nature, with such a relationship with God that he could perform miracles. I know that Jesus gave this miraculous power to his disciples, in the early spread of Christianity, in order to help it along. I never saw a permanent statement that we could do anything at all with prayer, including miraculously move mountains.

This passage confused me when I was starting out in Christianity. I wanted to know why would Jesus curse the fig tree simply for being out of season. And I wanted to know why God would tell us that all we needed was to tell a mountain to go somewhere and it will. The first question was easily answered as soon as I realised that the fig tree is often used as a symbol of Israel. By cursing the fig tree for not being in season, not growing fruits, he was symbolically telling the Jews that there time was up. They were out of season, and therefore grew no fruit.

The second question was a bit harder. It took me a while before I understood the Bible well enough to form a coherent argument. Using the "we don't have enough faith" card is workable, but I prefer a more complex interpretation. We know from the text of the Bible that Jesus was walking near the Mount of Olives when he encountered the fig tree, and therefore where he was when he said "whoever says in prayer to that mountain, 'throw yourself in the sea', they can have faith that it will be done". The Mount of Olives has a special place in Old Testament prophecy. Of particular note is Zechariah 14, in which the coming of the Messiah will ultimately cause the ground to shake and roar - valleys will become mountains, and mountains will become valleys. The Mount of Olives was to be hewn in two, and shattered to the east and to the west. In which one of those directions (East, from memory, though don't quote me on that, I'm posting from memory here) lay the Mediterranean Ocean. In other words, Jesus was pointing to Old Testament prophecy, and saying that if you pray for the coming Messiah, then have no doubt it will happen. It doesn't give a time frame, as in "pray for the Messiah, and this prophecy will be fulfilled 30 seconds from that time". The prayer Jesus is suggesting is simply a reliance on God, and we can be certain that reliance on God will be prayer answered, for God always upholds his promises to us.

Together then, we have Jesus symbolically cursing the Israelites with one hand, and then picking them up with the other to pull back to the eventual fulfillment of God's plan with the Messiah. Of course, Jews and Christians these days disagree on when that Messiah has come/will come but the basic gist of the passage is still the same. Hope it helps, maybe that will help you find the mountain-movers ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an allegory, a Mountain is an obstacle, one we cannot see over or around - we are our own mountainous obstacle, we can't see beyond the thought of the moment, the problems that we face (and create within our own minds). Those that can move mountains may be moving something much more profound than a piece of landscape out of the way of others who find themselves utterly cutoff.

Just putting that out there as a theory, not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

I wonder why the pope can't do it?

I mean, his piety levels must be off the chart, right?

you'd think that as god's chosen here on earth, he'd at least be able to move molehills if not full mountains??

maybe that's why the last one quit, citing 'not being able to serve the church as he should due to health issues' as the reason, because he realised his mountain-moving days were behind him....?

;-)

You are confusing the Patriarch of Alexandria with the Bishop of Rome. One is the successor of St. Mark; the other is the successor of St. Peter. These are two different churches, with different histories and traditions. The Partriarch of Alexandria is "chairman and head of the Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria as a first among equals" which does not necessarily mean he is the most pious or infallible. Simon the Tanner was a saint, I guess the spiritual and the ecclesiastical 'pyramids' to not have to coincide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_of_the_Coptic_Orthodox_Church_of_Alexandria

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps then, doubt becomes a danger.

Interesting, but not exactly what I had in mind. A mountain cast into the sea would create waves, which could be observed much further from the source. A big splash, in other words.

We see this picture repeated in the Book of Revelation, at the second trumpet. It then becomes a plague, poisoning the water.

Rev. Ch. 8

8The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood,9and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.

This passage appears to underline the previous teaching, as instead of a fig tree, part of the earth withers. There's no allegory in that. Power over the elements becomes very real, if you believe the story.

This isn't healing the sick or raising the dead that He is performing, this is something quite different, and He clearly gives permission to His followers to do the same.

So I must ask again, where are the men who can command the elements as Jesus taught?

I didn't realize that what you had in mind was the full literal manifestation of the NT verse. There are no seas next to Mokkatam, it is flanked by the desert! The story of Simon's miracle is interpreted in the Coptic traditions as timely divine response to the people's 'Kyrie eleison' prayer, by which they evaded threatened genocide. This was the only example that came to my mind. Generally, I take Jesus' saying to mean that faith can move mountains (problems, hardship), but not to control elements. I'm afraid I cannot answer your question. As for the Revelations verse, I always took the burning mountain to be some kind of meteorite!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you want to take what he said literally, which you can't really honestly say it was, the prerequisite to doing any of these hypothetical feats would be being 100% clear of any doubt that what you are doing is possible. So I guess the question is where are the people who have 100% belief in their ability to move mountains, and there you will find your mountain movers. I don't have 100% faith that any people like this exist, to be honest.

But I do know there are world famous celebrities/musicians/authors/etc. who say they are where they are today (living their dreams) due to the mindset of having no doubt that they would achieve their dreams and be what they want to be. If only we could all be this way.

We could place mountains wherever we want, and build our lives/world the way we want them. Living the dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The second question was a bit harder. It took me a while before I understood the Bible well enough to form a coherent argument. Using the "we don't have enough faith" card is workable, but I prefer a more complex interpretation.

First, I don't think we should assume the fig tree was out of season. That's just a leap over faith and into warm and fuzzy no-where land. I think He just got mad, and His anger resulted in the exact opposite of healing. It certainly impressed His disciples. I mean wow; He can make bad things happen too. Throwing a mountain into the ocean is about anger, and that's why we see it again in Revelation.

If we use your line of reasoning, then every miracle He performed had something attached to it besides genuine human emotion. In other words, you dehumanize Him, which is a huge part of the foundation of our faith.

Jesus was just being good when he was healing the sick and raising the dead, but He never hurt anything intentionally? He never had a bad day? I have a gut feeling that He hurt more than just the fig tree, and when we see that mountain thrown into the sea in Revelation and about a billion people die; He won't be doing it to reason away His emotions. He'll be doing it because, He's mad.

This castration of Jesus must infuriate Him. No wonder He kills about two thirds of mankind. They refuse to believe He was a real man who can also kill you in a heartbeat with what simply comes out of His mouth.

Remember, in the end He spits out the luke-warm church, and what man returns to His spittle on the ground? They make Him sick.

Edited by Raptor Witness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are confusing the Patriarch of Alexandria with the Bishop of Rome.

.

nope.

not confusing anyone with anyone else i'm afraid.

I was merely stating that the pope, being the head of the catholic church, would have 100% belief, and therefore, should be someone with the kind of faith, as the OP said, that could move mountains, but i've never heard of a pope yet who's been involved in any major construction projects.

all I was doing was agreeing with the OP's question, where indeed are the people who can move mountains....?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, I don't think we should assume the fig tree was out of season. That's just a leap over faith and into warm and fuzzy no-where land.

No, it is what the text says:

And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs.

~ Mark 11:13

And that Israel was often compared allegorically with a fig tree is a fact of biblical history. Do with that what you will.

I think He just got mad, and His anger resulted in the exact opposite of healing. It certainly impressed His disciples. I mean wow; He can make bad things happen too.

If we use your line of reasoning, then every miracle He performed had something attached to it besides genuine human emotion. In other words, you dehumanize Him, which is a huge part of the foundation of our faith.

Jesus was just being good when he was healing the sick and raising the dead, but He never hurt anything intentionally? I have a gut feeling that He hurt more than just the fig tree, and when we see that mountain thrown into the sea in Revelation and about a billion people die; He won't be doing it to reason away His emotions. He'll be doing it because, He's mad.

This castration of Jesus must infuriate Him. No wonder He kills about two thirds of mankind. They refuse to believe He was a real man who can also kill you in a heartbeat with what simply comes out of His mouth.

Remember, in the end He spits out the luke-warm church, and what man returns to His spittle on the ground? They make Him sick.

Can I ask for some clarification please - if you didn't want to hear Christian answers, why did you ask a question about Christian beliefs? I took the time to outline the prophecies of Zechariah 14 and how it applies to Jesus' comment on throwing mountains into the sea (and I apologise, it wasn't east/west it moved, it was north/south - the valley that was formed travelled east/west - I did say I was quoting from memory). I made these comments and you chose to ignore them, focusing on Jesus' anger instead.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that you weren't really interested in hearing answers. You just wanted to share what you thought was a "contradiction", after all - where are the mountain movers? If you aren't interested in hearing answers, I'm not interested in wasting my time giving any further. I'll keep that in mind next time I see a thread started by you, Raptor. I wish you the best for the future :tu:

~ Regards, PA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

No, it is what the text says:

And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs.

~ Mark 11:13

Leave it to Mark to add in the warm and fuzzy explanation. It probably got added later, as Matthew doesn't mention the seasonal part, and it's quoted correctly in Post 1.

Thomas Jefferson, who I regard as the greatest American that ever lived, kept a Bible that highlighted what Jesus said, and omitted everything else.

I sort of like that idea. It tells you more about the man that lived, breathed, and walked among us.

Here's the real meat, the real man talking, without explanation:

“No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you.” And at once the fig tree withered.

“Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen.22“And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”

In other words, you can make your anger manifest itself too.

Edited by Raptor Witness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leave it to Mark to add in the warm and fuzzy explanation. It probably got added later, as Matthew doesn't add the seasonal part, and it's quoted correctly in Post 1.

And since Mark is acknowledged to have been written before Matthew, your reason for dismissing this as a late addition is.... what, exactly? Only your preconceptions, I'm afraid.

Thomas Jefferson, who I regard as the greatest American that ever lived, kept a Bible that highlighted what Jesus said, and omitted everything else.

Unfortunately, Thomas Jefferson didn't have much competition to be declared the greatest American. Ok, jokes aside, he's not the first to do this, probably won't be the last. For me, though, I'm a Bible-believing Christian. That means I accept all the Bible, not just the stuff I happen to like or agree with. But that's just me, I wish you the best with whatever you happen to believe. It nevertheless does not take away from what the Bible may say about the Mount of Olives in its proper contextual understanding.

~ PA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine, let's let some other human beings chime in. Warm and fuzzy has it's limitations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can I say, that as a non-believer, i'm finding it interesting that different people have totally different interpretations of the same passages from the bible.

guess there's more mileage in the good book than I thought.....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it was possible, and still is but doubt clouds the mind.

You're thinking of the dark side...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coal company's move mountains, I suppose the CEOs of these company's can do it. Indeed because of the erosion problems with doing this the mountain pretty much ends up in the sea at some point.. Just saying :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So where are these men of whom Jesus spoke? If no human will ever attain this level of faith in all of history, why bother putting it out there as an example?

Mohammed, after many attempts to get a mountain to come to him, is reputed to have said: "If the mountain will not come to Mohammed, then Mohammed will go to the mountain." I call that a practical solution.

Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Figures are moving across a landscape and one figure speaks and then another figure speaks. We say Jesus spoke to His disciples and we infer that one person was speaking to another and especially so in the story form of the Bible and especially so because we think the things written there have meaning to us here and now.

But this is the differentiating mind at work. We are brought up to think we are separate people and are surrounded by separate people each with there own names.

This is illusory.

Jesus was not speaking to other people and the world does indeed move mountains down to the sea and back again and on rare occasions now impacts the things the size of mountains into the oceans.

Edited by Serpentine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one can move a mountain, it's just not gonna a happen. Prayer can make a person feel better but thats about it. I suppose if a person really wanted to see a miracle and if they prayed hard enough they might delude themselves into thinking the mountain moved but it would only be in their own warped perception. Miracles are just stories made up to strengthen people's faith thats all. In the end if you want a real miracle then just study the way the water cycle works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.