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Kowalski

Can't Wish Away Facts About Immigration

94 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Immigrants+not here legally=illegal immigrant

How do you define armed cartel members growing weed in Southern Oregon. Or are you 'cool' with that?

How do you define the hundreds of 'Merican street gangs killing thousands of people each year? Oh that's right, when it's 'Mericans it's rotten apples, when it's anyone else it's their entire race doing it..

If you don't want to or can't give an answer to my simple question there is no need to even quote it.

As far as your question (?) goes I would define them as too many illegal immigrants...? Causing people to use phat vernacular like" 'Merican". Well, on a slightly more serious note I would say the fracturing of society and the family unit due to multiple factors culminating in turf and/or drug wars compounded by the failures of inept and/or ill-equipped individual communities.

Edited by Dan'O
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Police: Illegals responsible for much of drug trade

A lot of the stories centered around undocumented immigrants deal with hard-working people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. While much of that is true, Utah is also being flooded with illicit drugs brought in large part by those in the country illegally.

Most of the groups busted by the Utah County Major Crimes task force are made up of Hispanics, director Lt. Phil Murphy said.

"The majority of them are not residents," he said.

His Weber-Morgan county counterparts have kept statistics on their drugs busts.

Of the 483 busts made between May 2009 and May 2010, 8 percent involved undocumented immigrants. But those 38 people were responsible for 82 percent of the total amount of drugs seized.

Just a few short years ago, Utah was infamous across the country for having a massive number of meth labs. Strict laws have since cut the number of labs nearly to zero. But Murphy says that even at the height of Utah's meth lab days, the state wasn't producing anything like the quantities being brought in from Mexico, where huge amounts of it are mixed in "superlabs," then shipped north. Illegal immigrants are not only bringing it into the country, they're doing it in such a way that they're difficult to catch.

"They're basically assigned to come to this area," Murphy said. "It's a very corporate mentality. A business mentality."

And like anything tied to immigration, there are no easy answers.

State Sen. Jon Greiner, R-Ogden, has tried for years to pass legislation cracking down on gang activity -- often running into resistance from colleagues because of concerns over Fourth Amendment rights such as unreasonable searches and seizures.

"Because we're so afraid of being painted with the racial profiling brush, we're not as aggressive as we should be or would be," said Greiner, who is also Ogden's police chief.

He said he doesn't have recorded data to prove it, but 35 years in law enforcement makes him conclude that about 25 percent of illegal immigrants involved in the drug trade are transient, while 75 percent live in the area.

Greiner was on Gov. Gary Herbert's immigration roundtable on Tuesday and laughed about the "90 seconds" he got to make his case. With all the talk about states getting involved in immigration reform, one idea to manage the drug problem would be to make it easier for the feds to get involved. Federal convictions have much tougher sentences and room in prisons for convicts other than violent offenders.

"If Utah had a reputation for filing in the federal system, that might do it," he said.

The only real answer, say Greiner and Murphy, is that the country is going to have to come to grips with the addiction culture it's created.

"If it wasn't wanted here, if there wasn't a demand, then there wouldn't be a problem. But there is," Murphy said. That demand is at all levels -- illegal and legal.

Taken from http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/police-illegals-responsible-for-much-of-drug-trade/article_bc4564db-e4b3-535d-9684-d27d36fee426.html

  • Illegal immigrants are not “undocumented.” They have fraudulent documents such as counterfeit Social Security cards, forged drivers licenses, fake “green cards,” and phony birth certificates. Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment.
  • Most (98 percent) Social Security number (SSN) thieves use their own names with stolen numbers. The federal E-Verify program, now mandated in only 14 states, can detect this fraud. Universal, mandatory use of E-Verify would curb this and stop virtually 100 percent of child identity theft.
  • Illegal immigration and high levels of identity theft go hand-in-hand. States with the most illegal immigration also have high levels of job-related identity theft. In Arizona, 33 percent or all identity theft is job-related (as opposed to identity theft motivated simply by profit). In Texas it is 27 percent; in New Mexico, 23 percent; in Colorado, 22 percent; California, 20 percent; and in Nevada, 16 percent. Eight of the 10 states with the highest percentage of illegal aliens in their total population are among the top 10 states in identity theft (Arizona, California, Florida, Texas, Nevada, New York, Georgia, and Colorado).
  • Children are prime targets. In Arizona, it is estimated that over one million children are victims of identity theft. In Utah, 1,626 companies were found to be paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13. These individuals suffer very real and very serious consequences in their lives.
  • Illegal aliens commit felonies in order to get jobs. Illegal aliens who use fraudulent documents, perjure themselves on I-9 forms, and commit identity theft in order to get jobs are committing serious offenses and are not “law abiding.”
  • Illegally employed aliens send billions of dollars annually to their home countries, rather than spending it in the United States and helping stimulate the American economy. In October 2008 alone, $2.4 billion was transferred to Mexico.
  • Tolerance of corruption erodes the rule of law. Corruption is a serious problem in most illegal aliens’ home countries. Allowing it to flourish here paves the way for additional criminal activity and increased corruption throughout society.
  • Leaders support perpetrators and ignore victims. Political, civic, religious, business, education, and media leaders blame Americans for “forcing” illegal aliens to commit document fraud and identity theft. No similar concern is expressed for the American men, women, and children whose lives are destroyed in the process

back_809_sidebar.jpg

Identity Theft Victims Suffer Real Consequences. Victims of identity theft suffer real consequences. The victims of workers at the Swift packing plants included an individual in Texas whose personal information was being used by an illegal alien for employment. The victim was pulled over and arrested because the illegal alien had used his identity to conduct criminal activity.22

In Utah, the staff of the state’s Workforce Services office has seen children denied Medicaid benefits because adults were using their SSNs. Based on information developed by Workforce Services, Utah Attorney General, Mark Shurtleff warned the public about the devastating impact that illegal alien identity theft has on children when he said:

Identity thieves are no respecters of age. They will steal your children’s ID, ruin their credit, and hurt them in ways never thought possible before they can graduate from grade school. Children are vulnerable even if parents do everything right.

In Illinois, an American citizen was denied a job at a Target store because one of 37 people who were using her SSN was already employed by the company. According to MSNBC, “The woman found herself in a financial nightmare. All those imitators made a mess out of her work history, her Social Security records, and her credit report. She was haunted by bills and creditors. She received threatening letters from the IRS, asking her to pay taxes on money earned by imposters. She was told to re-pay unemployment benefits she had received, after the government discovered she was ‘working’ while drawing benefits.”24

A man whose SSN was used to obtain employment in at least three states was told by the IRS that he owed $64,000 in unpaid taxes in spite of the fact that he had been incarcerated in a state penitentiary during the time the income was earned.25

A nursing home resident nearly lost his disability benefits because a worker at a Pilgrim’s Pride meat plant was using his identity and it appeared that the disabled patient was working.26 An Air Force veteran was arrested on a warrant for unpaid parking tickets incurred by an illegal alien using his identity. He was only released after paying a $340 fine for tickets that he did not incur. He continued to receive demands for the payment of outstanding taxes on income that he had not earned and he saw his credit rating destroyed.27

These stories are just the tip of the iceberg. Millions of Americans either knowingly or unknowingly are sharing their SSNs with illegal aliens and are having their lives slowly usurped by the identity thieves. They will only learn of the damage done when they are denied credit, receive a notice for taxes on income they didn’t earn, are denied benefits that they are entitled to, find that their medical records have been corrupted with possibly life-threatening consequences, or when collection agencies start calling.

Taken from http://www.cis.org/IdentityTheft

America’s political, media, civic, religious, and educational leaders try to justify illegal alien document fraud, perjury, and identity theft by arguing that the unauthorized workers are forced to commit these crimes in order to obtain jobs. For example, in 2006, when asked about illegal alien driven identity theft, former United States Representative Chris Cannon (R-Utah) replied: “This is a huge problem, that we sort of force people into.”43 [emphasis added]

The Associated Press had earlier used the same rationale when its reporter wrote:

In 2004, the IRS got 7.9 million W-2s with names that didn’t match a Social Security number. More than half were from California, Texas, Florida, and Illinois, states with large immigrant populations, leading experts to believe they likely represent the wages of illegal immigrants. Even immigrants who use ITINs to file taxes are
forced
to make up a Social Security number when they get a job.
[emphasis added]

An editorial in the Deseret News (Utah) stated that the solution to illegal immigration would be to give illegal aliens a “work permit that keeps them from having to forge Social Security cards.”45 [emphasis added]

Illegal aliens, who are used to operating in the often more corrupt systems of their home countries, do what is necessary to get the documents required to work in the United States. When asked why they violate American law, they justify their actions by saying that they had no other choice, that it’s just like the bribe to the policeman or to the corrupt government official in their home countries. For example:

  • “If I could do it again — I wouldn’t do it [buy an identity and Social Security number for $850], but the laws of this country force you to do it.”46 (emphasis added) This person had been convicted of identity theft and was being deported.
  • “You know, there’s a lot of people, they make documents and we buy them. That’s the only way you can work. It’s not legal, but what can you do?” The ID this person bought belonged to an IRS agent, which under Minnesota law is a criminal offense.47
  • “We were working, we weren’t stealing,” she said although she had been convicted of identity theft.48
  • “In Spanish, Ramos said all she wanted was a job and that she never knew the identity she was using actually belonged to another woman.” Ramos had used a stolen identity when hospitalized leaving the victim with a $17,000 bill and possibly life threatening, corrupted medical records.49

A nation flourishes when people respect the rule of law and abhor corruption in all its forms. As demonstrated by the current financial crisis, corruption can be devastating for millions of people.

Under the rule of law, when people disagree with a law, they work to change it while upholding it until such time as it is amended, abolished, or totally rewritten. However, today millions of men, women, and children are the victims of illegal-alien-driven identity theft because America’s political, civic, education, business, religious, education, and media leaders endorse and allow fraud to permeate our immigration system.

Leaders and citizens must individually and collectively take action to protect Americans and legal residents against illegal immigration-driven document fraud and identity theft. All employers must verify the employment eligibility and identities of new hires and existing employees. Illegal aliens must understand that the corruption of their home countries will not be tolerated in the United States and that document fraud, perjury on I-9 forms, and identity theft to obtain jobs is not acceptable. They must also understand that individuals committing these crimes will be held accountable.

Any eventual immigration reform must recognize and compensate the victims of illegal-alien-driven identity theft while denying amnesty from these crimes to illegal aliens, regardless of whether they have previously been convicted of these crimes or not. Finally, any immigration reform has to end the corruption associated with illegal immigration.

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Posted (edited)

Richwine just resigned.

The information posted on this thread presented as studies will have their sources scrutinized to determine if they are the type of research we will recognize as coming from a non-biased academic organization.

Anyone is free to accept whatever evidence is presented but some have standards of what can be defined as scholarship.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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Posted (edited)

Richwine just resigned.

The information posted on this thread presented as studies will have their sources scrutinized to determine if they are the type of research we will recognize as coming from a non-biased academic organization.

Anyone is free to accept whatever evidence is presented but some have standards of what can be defined as scholarship.

As condescending as you are you can and will be ignored by more and more people as time goes on. One thing you cannot do is talk for all liberal Democrats. Very few of them are clones. The ones I know have much more sense, take all news sources into account and look at every bit of evidence with the utmost scrutiny. Don't even think of putting yourself in their catagory. It's an insult to them and they would be deeply offended.

Edited by Michelle
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Posted (edited)

Of course I do not speak for all liberals, especially since I do not identify with liberalism.

As far as conservative voices, while I cannot speak for them, they can speak for themselves regarding the "study" discussed in the OP:

Conservatives who disagree with the Heritage Foundation Report

Hours after Mr. Rector presented his findings at a news conference at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, Haley Barbour, a Republican leader and former governor of Mississippi, convened his own press call to dismiss the study.

This a political document,” Mr. Barbour said. “This gigantic cost figure that the Heritage Foundation puts out is actually the cost over 50 years. If you put the 50-year cost of anything in front of the public, it is going to be a huge number.”

Mr. Barbour, who is among a growing number of Republican leaders who have urged the party to take a less hard-line approach to immigration, criticized Mr. Rector for failing to estimate the economic benefits of bringing immigrants into the legal system, and for underestimating the potential for economic improvement over time among immigrant families.

Estimate of Immigration Overhaul’s Cost Gets Mixed Reviews on Right

We are in agreement that this is a "political document". Further, it does not seem to be non-biased or academic in nature.

Grover Norquist, the conservative anti-tax crusader, has also spoken out in recent days to pre-emptively dispute Mr. Rector’s claims. An analysis posted Monday on the Web site of his organization, Americans for Tax Reform, called the cost estimate “wildly overblown,” arguing that the study had, among other things, lumped native-born Americans into many of its calculations.

Estimate of Immigration Overhaul’s Cost Gets Mixed Reviews on Right

Oh, someone should tell the author of the report presented in the OP that Native Americans and Hispanics are not the same.

There is little doubt, that document falls short of the standards expected from non-biased academic research. A "political document", biased, with poor scholarship is what it seems to be.

Heritage argued in a newly released report that the allowing 11 million undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship could cost $6.3 trillion. On the other side of the debate are conservative lawmakers including Sen. Jeff Flake, a member of the Gang of 8, along with other conservative organizations who argue the Heritage report didn’t take into account the economic benefits immigration reform would bring along with it.

Why Conservatives Are Divided on Immigration Reform

Libertarians who disagree with the Heritage Foundation Report

...the CATO Institute, who pushed back with their own critiques, arguing that the Heritage report did not take the economic benefits of immigration reform into account.

Heritage Foundation's opposition to the Senate proposal generated lots of opposition—among conservatives.

We also have libertarian voices denying the accuracy of this report that was falsely claimed in the title of this thread to be "facts" that "could not be washed away".

It seems that some conservatives and libertarians disagree with this report. Consider it likely that the majority of liberals and progressives would also find fault with it too.

Mr. Richwine's previous work

But reports this week about the content of Mr. Richwine’s 2009 doctorate dissertation, in which he said the lower I.Q.’s of immigrants should be considered when crafting public policy, set off a furor, with some immigration advocates decrying his writing as racist.

The Heritage Foundation had already come under criticism from both Democrats and Republicans for the study on the costs of the immigration proposal, and news of Mr. Richwine’s outside writings further undercut the organization’s attempt to help shape the immigration debate from the outside.

Author of Study on Immigrants’ I.Q. Leaves Heritage Foundation

Hitler also had the same ideas color coded in green above.

A Liberal who disgrees with the Heritage Foundation Report

Maybe one liberal voice should also be shared here? Since I cannot speak for them we can allow them to speak for themselves.

“Racism and xenophobia have no place in the debate on immigration reform, period,” said Jose Antonio Vargas, the founder of Define American, a pro-immigration group. I hope this is a lesson for all sides that what the public is looking for is a fair and honest debate on immigration reform, not long discredited racial theories designed divide us rather than unite us.

Author of Study on Immigrants’ I.Q. Leaves Heritage Foundation

This does not truly require anyone from the left to argue since those of you who self-identify with conservatism have your own fellow conservatives to debate with over the validity of the report presented in the OP.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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Of course I do not speak for all liberals, especially since I do not identify with liberalism.

This does not truly require anyone from the left to argue since those of you who self-identify with conservatism have your own fellow conservatives to debate with over the validity of the report presented in the OP.

If you don't identify with liberals, who, pray tell, do you identify with? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I've never self-identified myself with conservativism. It is the catagory you have put anyone who doesn't agree with you in.

It's sad you live in such a black and white world. I suppose from such a high pedestal it would appear that way.

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Sometimes "criminals" are made by bad laws. This is the case with US immigration policy, and taking a punitive "punishment" attitude against those who would not be in that situation except for the bad law is not just. People are only trying to improve their lives and the lives of their children. While being generous this way causes the US some short-term difficulties, in the long run it will end up much better off.

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Sometimes "criminals" are made by bad laws. This is the case with US immigration policy, and taking a punitive "punishment" attitude against those who would not be in that situation except for the bad law is not just. People are only trying to improve their lives and the lives of their children. While being generous this way causes the US some short-term difficulties, in the long run it will end up much better off.

So, why have so many successful countries adopted a system where only people who have gainful employment lined up can immigrate? People from the US can't just move to Canada, or even Mexico, without proving they won't be a burden on society and are considered "illegal immigrants" otherwise.

I don't quite get the double standard there.

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I would say it is fine to set up a system of qualifications, although setups that require a job offer are too easy to manipulate. My standard would be reasonable proficiency in either English or Spanish (the two main American languages, although a case for adding French and ASL to the list could be made), basic numeracy, knowledge of US history and geography, and possession of a usable skill, and an absence of a criminal record.

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Posted (edited)

Sometimes I wish that those who want immigration to be closed and borders to be stringently patrolled and not to let one family in would have the same thing happen to their families when they came over for a better life.

I agree immigrants should do so legally. I also believe it should be easier for them to become tax paying citizens. I live in Arizona where we have an influx of migrant workers. The ones I see are here legally working side by side with everyone else and yes language barriers are apparent but I think it's great learning a little of their language as they learn a little more English through the course of daily interactions. And guess what your not going to believe this but they are some of the hardest working people we have here. Their work ethic surpasses many who have been Americans for generations. So we are giving 11 million migrants a chance to work honestly as legal tax paying citizens. This is not a bad thing. And to those that think this is simply a bleeding heart liberal folly. I say this to you.... your so concerned about good jobs well tough get out there and earn yourself one. Isn't that your motto anyways? You built this so get out there and start building if you think your a harder better worker than anyone else especially just because your American and they are not.

Buenas noches a todos...

In lame man terms good night everyone.

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch
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Having immigrants into the country enter legally is better for the country, as the immigrants have more of a stake and you don't end up with a bifurcated legal/under-the-table work force as much. However, people will do what they need to do for their families, so when a country makes it essentially impossible, you will end up with illegals. This problem is the fault of American racists and the politicians who pander to them, not the immigrants.

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I would say it is fine to set up a system of qualifications, although setups that require a job offer are too easy to manipulate. My standard would be reasonable proficiency in either English or Spanish (the two main American languages, although a case for adding French and ASL to the list could be made), basic numeracy, knowledge of US history and geography, and possession of a usable skill, and an absence of a criminal record.

How does that apply to anyone that will jump the border from all over South America though? What are we to do with them once they do this illegally with no skills whatsoever? If it's so easy to manipulate qualifications why are they still illegally crossing the border? We have an awful lot of unskilled, want to be workers, here already that would be tickled to death to get a job in restaurants, or wherever, so they can support themselves. A lot of them are in their 50's or 60's, having worked all of their lives in manufaturing jobs that have now gone elsewhere, with a good work ethic and can't make it on social security...if they are even elligable for it.

It's a tough situation all around.

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Posted (edited)

Having immigrants into the country enter legally is better for the country, as the immigrants have more of a stake and you don't end up with a bifurcated legal/under-the-table work force as much. However, people will do what they need to do for their families, so when a country makes it essentially impossible, you will end up with illegals. This problem is the fault of American racists and the politicians who pander to them, not the immigrants.

I'm disappointed...I've read a lot of your posts and I didn't expect you to pull the racist card. I'm talking pure economics.

Edited by Michelle
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I resent your accusing me of pulling the "racist card"; American policy here is racist. The economic arguments fall in favor of open borders, but people are too dense to see that and it pales beside the human cost that the racism is imposing. I would also say that American policy is making the States an object of disfavor if not serious dislike all around the world. I know for sure it disgusts me.

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Posted (edited)

Instead of arguing about them taking good jobs how about getting mad about greedy American business owners outsourcing jobs out of the country just so they can line their pockets at the expense of hard working Americans. That's the real argument. If we had all American business owners forced to open shop here in America where they themselves live and prosper maybe we would be hoping for immigrants.... just saying... we focus our frustrations on faceless arguments without ever addressing the true issues here stateside.

And yes I work in the manufacturing industry for a company that can claim made in the USA where every other company in this exact same industry outsources out of the country many of their parts. Top it off we are the leader in our industry with record profit. Methinks this could be possible in many industries. This last paragraph was said with pride. I'm not trying to be arrogant I'm simply very proud of this company for their effort to keep jobs in this country. Which has gone against the status quo in this particular industry.

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch
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Posted (edited)

I resent your accusing me of pulling the "racist card"; American policy here is racist. The economic arguments fall in favor of open borders, but people are too dense to see that and it pales beside the human cost that the racism is imposing. I would also say that American policy is making the States an object of disfavor if not serious dislike all around the world. I know for sure it disgusts me.

I wasn't the one that brought up race. I don't care what the "American policies" are. We have to have some sort of control over who immigrates to this country and how many. We can't be a sanctuary or an economical opportunity for everyone, as much as I would like us to be.

If I had my way, the entire US would be a sanctuary for every abused or endangered animal on the planet, but that isn't going to happen either. At some point, you've got to think about how much you can realistically accommodate.

Edited by Michelle
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The United States is seriously underpopulated and without considerable immigration will lose its superpower status to China and Inda within the century. These are choices Americans must make and have a lot to do with its ultimate role in the world.

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The United States is seriously underpopulated and without considerable immigration will lose its superpower status to China and Inda within the century. These are choices Americans must make and have a lot to do with its ultimate role in the world.

The reason you think the US is underpopulated is because we have vast areas of natural preserves...or what? Contrary to popular belief, we value our natural resources. Jobs are going over seas regardless of what we think.

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The United States is seriously underpopulated and without considerable immigration will lose its superpower status to China and Inda within the century. These are choices Americans must make and have a lot to do with its ultimate role in the world.

Underpopulated? Not at all.

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I resent your accusing me of pulling the "racist card"; American policy here is racist. The economic arguments fall in favor of open borders, but people are too dense to see that and it pales beside the human cost that the racism is imposing. I would also say that American policy is making the States an object of disfavor if not serious dislike all around the world. I know for sure it disgusts me.

You sure do like the "race card".

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I wouldn't call over 300 million underpopulated.

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Sure, more people can fit, but the country is unable to take care of what they have now. Adding 11+ million more isn't going to benefit in any way.

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Posted (edited)

If you don't identify with liberals, who, pray tell, do you identify with? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I've never self-identified myself with conservativism. It is the catagory you have put anyone who doesn't agree with you in.

It's sad you live in such a black and white world. I suppose from such a high pedestal it would appear that way.

I'm disappointed...I've read a lot of your posts and I didn't expect you to pull the racist card. I'm talking pure economics.

Excellent suggestion contained in the final thought above!

Instead of wanting to discuss fellow posters some will continue to prefer to discuss topics.

The topic here is what was contained in the OP and on that score the study presented in the OP lacks veracity.

I wasn't the one that brought up race. I don't care what the "American policies" are. We have to have some sort of control over who immigrates to this country and how many. We can't be a sanctuary or an economical opportunity for everyone, as much as I would like us to be.

If I had my way, the entire US would be a sanctuary for every abused or endangered animal on the planet, but that isn't going to happen either. At some point, you've got to think about how much you can realistically accommodate.

Others do care what American policies are and their corresponding views will be more informed through scholarship, less alarmist and emotional, and less about "us vs them" narratives which are rapidly becoming outdated among broad sections of society.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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I wasn't the one that brought up race. I don't care what the "American policies" are. We have to have some sort of control over who immigrates to this country and how many. We can't be a sanctuary or an economical opportunity for everyone, as much as I would like us to be.

If I had my way, the entire US would be a sanctuary for every abused or endangered animal on the planet, but that isn't going to happen either. At some point, you've got to think about how much you can realistically accommodate.

This is a very good post. The time has past for allowing everyone into the country. It's not responsible.

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Posted (edited)

Sure, more people can fit, but the country is unable to take care of what they have now. Adding 11+ million more isn't going to benefit in any way.

Those 11 million people are already here contributing to society by working. Even pro-business Republicans understand the need for sensible immigration reform and are becoming partners with us on crafting a more comprehensible solution than simply requiring a labor force and not giving them the full benefit of citizenship.

It is understandable some simply do not want these immigrants to live here. Deporting them all is the only way to get rid of them now and that is not currently on the table as an option.

Business as is would suffer too much if we used deportation as a tool which is why we are not going to, the low prices we pay for many products and services would increase causing more suffering to those who claim they already are.

In my area most people are living better than their parents or grandparents did which is why we believe in this country and the direction we have been moving in over a span of several decades under both Republican and Democratic administrations. We are only wanting sensible immigration reform here. Our city just recently named a heavily used and historic downtown boulevard after Cesar Chavez. Only a few old codgers rose their alarmist voices in complaint. The rest of us honor the migrant worker.

No sensible legislators are viewing deportation as an option. It is understandable some simply would want deportation instead, or maybe another solution if they have even thought it out since it seems their focus only seems to be "we don't want them here" and "close the borders" and both of those sentiments seem reactionary and unrealistic when it comes to crafting sensible legislation.

What a few want and the direction the majority are moving toward are at odds. It seems momentum will decide in the end.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!
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