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Kowalski

Can't Wish Away Facts About Immigration

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An educated, healthy population in the end is the only real resource that matters. In the end the dominant nations will be those with the most productive populations. Right now that is the US, but it is falling behind, and one of the reasons is its restrictive immigration policies. The initiative and drive and innovation and new ideas that new immigrants bring is going elsewhere.

The US could easily handle a billion people -- three times its present population -- with some good land use laws and a few changes in its culture. Other countries sustain high living standards with even more density. In the end it is this count that will make all the difference, since productivity is going to steadily equalize.

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Posted (edited)

Also, immigration is slowing down, which might not be a cause to celebrate since on both the bottom and upper tiers of our labor force, we are not going to have enough manpower or brainpower, respectively, to fill those positions.

While the foreign-born population size is a record, immigrants’ share of the total population is below the U.S. peak of just under 15% during a previous immigration wave from 1890 to 1920 that was dominated by arrivals from Europe.

Not only that, the rate of illegal immigration has actually slowed down since 2007. Granted, the results aren't statistically significant—it must be difficult to take a head count of people purposefully trying to avoid being detected. But another Pew study from last April shows that net migration from Mexico trailed off between 2005 and 2010. But that may speak more to the state of our own economy:

The standstill appears to be the result of many factors, including the weakened U.S. job and housing construction markets, heightened border enforcement, a rise in deportations, the growing dangers associated with illegal border crossings, the long-term decline in Mexico’s birth rates and broader economic conditions in Mexico.

So immigrants' share of the U.S. population is big, but still not as big as that of the late 19th and early 20th century, and Mexican immigration is at a net low for the first time in at least five years.

Pew Research Hispanic Center Illegal Immigration Has Slowed Down Since 2007

So we have two problems, who will do the bottom of the barrel jobs and who will do our science and engineering jobs? We need a two-pronged approach, one to attract brainpower from Asian countries, and the second to reattract manpower from other countries.

A third prong would be to keep manufacutring jobs here instead of Romneyish outsourcing them...what most others would consider "good blue collar jobs" that we have been hemorrhaging. Although this has nothing to do with immigration per se but most can see how they are related and affect us as a country. We are bleeding blue.

We can either do nothing, which allows companies on both ends of the market to exploit their workers, as is many Asian immigrants are working for US companies but since the visas and citizenship ques are limited many tech companies are hiring these Asian immigrants at an unfair wage uncomparable to what other citizens in the same jobs are making. On the other end we have immigrants doing a lot of hard work but also being underpayed and in other forms not given the full benefit of what a worker should receive.

It is not just the science and engineering jobs. When we don't have enough doctors for our citizens and when grocery prices go up, which will continue to happen and only get worse if we don't reform immigration, we will then face even huger problems as a country.

Not to get into any debate but when Asian immigrants is being discussed this would also include those from India.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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An educated, healthy population in the end is the only real resource that matters. In the end the dominant nations will be those with the most productive populations. Right now that is the US, but it is falling behind, and one of the reasons is its restrictive immigration policies. The initiative and drive and innovation and new ideas that new immigrants bring is going elsewhere.

The US could easily handle a billion people -- three times its present population -- with some good land use laws and a few changes in its culture. Other countries sustain high living standards with even more density. In the end it is this count that will make all the difference, since productivity is going to steadily equalize.

Educated and productive are the key words there. The people that are flooding across our borders illegaly are not educated and we have more than enough of our own population to fill minimum wage jobs. Just recently we have started to try and regulate immigration to the people who will be productive and beneficial to us as other countries have been doing for years. But, of course, that makes us racist. The US is falling behind because manufacturing has moved to other countries where there are no minimum wage laws. That, in itself, has lowered our standard of living dramatically.

And why don't we just devastate the environment by urbanizing every square inch? I mean, why on earth do we need all of these trees and a healthy ecosystem? China is doing fine without any of that nonsense, right?

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Educated and productive are the key words there. The people that are flooding across our borders illegaly are not educated and we have more than enough of our own population to fill minimum wage jobs. Just recently we have started to try and regulate immigration to the people who will be productive and beneficial to us as other countries have been doing for years. But, of course, that makes us racist. The US is falling behind because manufacturing has moved to other countries where there are no minimum wage laws. That, in itself, has lowered our standard of living dramatically.

And why don't we just devastate the environment by urbanizing every square inch? I mean, why on earth do we need all of these trees and a healthy ecosystem? China is doing fine without any of that nonsense, right?

So again you single out an entire group of people and declare that "they are not educated".

It is good to be told that I am not educated, meanwhile I seem to know how to read the federal law and you do not.

As for how a qualification system can be manipulated, the poster was stating that our qualification system has been manipulated not by those who migrate, but by those making the guidelines of the system.

Once again for an average immigrant the cost of entering 'Merica legally is in the thousands range.. Do you really believe that any working class citizen in say Mexico has thousands just laying around? Does having these thousands make a difference as to whether or not the bad apples mix in? Well, considering that the drug cartels hold millions.. NO.

Then who is being prevented from entering? Those who are hard workers, who just wish for a fair chance within a country that can provide the chances.

The thing is these poor folk have no idea they are trying to enter a country that has been taught to be racist against them..

You know back when Africans were slaves, they used many of the same arguments to continue the slavery and racism over them..

"They aren't educated, they are violent, they aren't the same as us..." Nope wasn't racism at all.

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Posted (edited)

So again you single out an entire group of people and declare that "they are not educated".

It is good to be told that I am not educated, meanwhile I seem to know how to read the federal law and you do not.

As for how a qualification system can be manipulated, the poster was stating that our qualification system has been manipulated not by those who migrate, but by those making the guidelines of the system.

Once again for an average immigrant the cost of entering 'Merica legally is in the thousands range.. Do you really believe that any working class citizen in say Mexico has thousands just laying around? Does having these thousands make a difference as to whether or not the bad apples mix in? Well, considering that the drug cartels hold millions.. NO.

Then who is being prevented from entering? Those who are hard workers, who just wish for a fair chance within a country that can provide the chances.

The thing is these poor folk have no idea they are trying to enter a country that has been taught to be racist against them..

You know back when Africans were slaves, they used many of the same arguments to continue the slavery and racism over them..

"They aren't educated, they are violent, they aren't the same as us..." Nope wasn't racism at all.

Add to those facts that anyone who claims they do not care what American policies are will have a weak top-down view of these issues.

I don't care what the "American policies" are.

They will instead solely have a bottom-up view only narrowly informed by those immediately around them and not using the same information that others including our policy makers are now using.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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They will instead solely have a bottom-up view only narrowly informed by those immediately around them and not using the same information that others including our policy makers are now using.

Tell us how you don't discuss posters again?

That's right, I don't care what American policies are if I think they are wrong. Like how I think gay marriage should be legal. I think it is wrong that it isn't legal in all states and I will do everything in my power to change that.

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I am constantly amazed that people attribute racial bias to a set of laws just because a particular race chooses to break those laws. Our immigration laws, right or wrong, are crafted to apply to all immigrants and are meant to be enforced at all borders. If conditions in various countries around the world cause their citizens to want to leave, that is a problem in the country in question, it needn't become ours. It is commendable that the United States has traditionally extended the welcome mat to all people. But we also pride ourselves on being a nation of laws, not men. Those laws apply to natural born citizens as well as immigrants. So, why is it racist if Hispanics choose to break our laws? What would we call it if it was Canadians surging across our border instead of Mexicans? Immigrants from countries with whom we share an ocean are forced to follow the proper procedures to come to the United States. Why should the same laws not apply to immigrants from countries with whom we share a border? What kind of racism is it that causes Asians to follow the law while Central Americans get a pass? I think we are only inviting trouble if we send the message that our laws don't matter if you belong to a certain group. If millions of people can break our laws to get here and are forgiven because we're afraid to enforce them lest we be called racists, then what incentive will they have to follow our laws once they're here?

As a young man I tried to emigrate to Canada. No, I was not fleeing the draft. There were organizations to help those that were. I merely liked the country and naively decided to move there. But they had laws to keep out the unskilled, which I was at that age. I had, nor have, no animosity towards Canada because they enforced their laws. I didn't cross surreptitiously through the miles of forest along the border. I stayed home and made a life for myself here. I didn't feel that Canada owed me anything. We need to take the same stance with those that want to come here. We can maintain our image as the Land of Opportunity while at the same time not becoming the cesspool of the world. If we're fair to all then there's nothing racist about it.

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The racial bias that I perceive is one of American "whites" trying to keep the States white. It is not expressed openly, but that is the gut thing going on -- the fear that the American white majority will be swamped, and to an Asian or an African or a Latin American or an Indian (subcontinent), this is racism.

As far as the "illegals" problem is concerned, I see that as a consequence of restrictive American immigration laws. People do what they perceive is in their best interest and the best interest of their families. If you pass laws blocking this, they will work around them. Such prohibitive laws rarely work, and should not be even attempted except when there is no viable alternative, and so often lead to situations such as the States now faces with a significant "illegal" population who naturally do not feel they are part of the society and hence do not feel loyalty to it.

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The racial bias that I perceive is one of American "whites" trying to keep the States white. It is not expressed openly, but that is the gut thing going on -- the fear that the American white majority will be swamped, and to an Asian or an African or a Latin American or an Indian (subcontinent), this is racism.

As far as the "illegals" problem is concerned, I see that as a consequence of restrictive American immigration laws. People do what they perceive is in their best interest and the best interest of their families. If you pass laws blocking this, they will work around them. Such prohibitive laws rarely work, and should not be even attempted except when there is no viable alternative, and so often lead to situations such as the States now faces with a significant "illegal" population who naturally do not feel they are part of the society and hence do not feel loyalty to it.

The laws of the US are not enacted by any one race and since whites are barely a majority it's too late to "keep the States white" if indeed that was ever a consideration. How do you claim to know what is not expressed openly? You state it as a matter of fact while it is clearly just your opinion.

Laws in general are enacted precisely to prevent people from doing what is in their best interest without consideration of society as a whole. As an example, there is a rich neighborhood not far from where I live that is full of mansions. It would benefit me greatly to live in one of those homes and also to drive the luxury car in the garage. But I can't just climb the fence and take possession merely because I perceive it to be in my best interest. There are "prohibitive laws" in the way that are working quite well. Now if several million like minded individuals had broken those same laws and gotten away with it I might be encouraged to improve my lot in life. Never mind that life would definitely not be improved for the current legal owners.

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Well, I said it is my perception: it is the perception of a large part of the world's population and because of that does the US considerable harm.

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Posted (edited)

Throughout history those leaving one place for another to make a better life is a common theme.

When that happens you will always have those in the host country resenting the influx.

Every immigrant group to America went through the same issues.

With the first settlers it was the Indians and they got the bad end of the stick.

With the Catholics from Southern and Eastern Europe began to arrive they went through it and eventually integrated.

With the Africans, they came as slaves, the impact was not felt until after emancipation and they went en masse to northern industrial cities creating many tensions.

Now we have Hispanics coming and they will struggle as a few xenophobes try to keep them out.

America is not going to stop accepting immigrants, a part of the population always wishes they would, but in the future this will continue most likely with Asians immigration returning.

The Asians also began coming but the US put quick stops to that back then but in the future it will be different.

The fight for limited resources will wane as we better learn to manage resources.

It is a natural tendency for some to have the us vs them mindset, it is how we evolved, what got us through the tribal stage.

As we enter the new world there is less a reason to cling onto tribal ways.

Who knows, in the future, it might be Americans who leave en masse to go to another country.

Natural disasters happen, remember the scene from The Day After Tomorrow, and it was Americans crossing the Mexican border trying to get into Mexico...

...whatever the case no nation can last forever, even Rome fell, we won't last as long as Rome, the tendency to also believe you are the greatest, however false, will only increase the nativist sentiment.

Immigration reform is coming regardless of the obstructionists and the xenophobes. Our country will be better for it. Those who disagree have a right to disagree but they are no longer dominating the mainstream narrative so are relegated to the dark corners of the media and screaming their message when they can.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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Natural disasters happen, remember the scene from The Day After Tomorrow, and it was Americans crossing the Mexican border trying to get into Mexico...

Are you citing a movie?

Those against this are not racist. We are looking out for our country. Nothing more, nothing less. 11 million mostly poor, mostly uneducated people are not going to make this country better at this time.

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Yes, sorry about the movie.

And the nativists always say the same thing about how so and so group is this and this and how they will not make the country better.

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Yes, sorry about the movie.

And the nativists always say the same thing about how so and so group is this and this and how they will not make the country better.

11 million mostly poor, mostly uneducated Canadians would not be a good thing either.

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And the nativists always say the same thing about how so and so group is this and this and how they will not make the country better.

yea, becouse they are right.

the country does not get better, pretty obvous to anyone with no denial sindrom, just look around.

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Posted (edited)

The laws of the US are not enacted by any one race and since whites are barely a majority it's too late to "keep the States white" if indeed that was ever a consideration. How do you claim to know what is not expressed openly? You state it as a matter of fact while it is clearly just your opinion.

Laws in general are enacted precisely to prevent people from doing what is in their best interest without consideration of society as a whole. As an example, there is a rich neighborhood not far from where I live that is full of mansions. It would benefit me greatly to live in one of those homes and also to drive the luxury car in the garage. But I can't just climb the fence and take possession merely because I perceive it to be in my best interest. There are "prohibitive laws" in the way that are working quite well. Now if several million like minded individuals had broken those same laws and gotten away with it I might be encouraged to improve my lot in life. Never mind that life would definitely not be improved for the current legal owners.

So you're saying that if your livelihood were at stake and your government refused to help, you would not take appropriate action because it is illegal?

You want to talk law, let's talk law..

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. Hialeah, 508 U.S. 520 (1993),[1] was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that an ordinance passed in Hialeah, Florida, forbidding the "unnecessar[y]" killing of "an animal in a public or private ritual or ceremony not for the primary purpose of food consumption", was unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Lukumi_Babalu_Aye_v._City_of_Hialeah

------------

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

AMENDMENT XIV

Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

Gov. Andrew Cuomo calls those and other provisions in the state's new gun law common sense while dismissing criticisms he says come from "extreme fringe conservatives" who claim the government has no right to regulate guns.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/15/17761151-new-york-gun-owners-now-must-register-assault-weapons?lite

Those examples being given, and I can go into the hundreds if not thousands of examples...It's safe to say that laws that are unfair and illegal have been made and it is possible for a law to be overly protective to a point where some must surrender their rights in order for the laws to secure them.

In the case of most people migrating illegally, it is because they are desperate and feel that their lives and that of their families lives could be at risk. Their only recourse being to flee, and where they would love to enter the land of the free legally... The land of the free makes the process quite literally impossible for them. They then find that the immigration laws in effect are not only unfair, but inhumane. It is decided that they are in too desperate a position to wait for months or years and costing thousands to get a little paper.. So they decide at that moment to cross the border, work hard and save up every penny so that they can then afford the paper work needed to stay.

You want to mention economics?

Hispanics did help fight in the war that made 'Merica a free nation, Hispanics have fought in every war since, Hispanics been been a productive member of society, but we made laws that quite frankly mean "unless you are rich in your homeland we don't want you". Do you know what being rich within a Hispanic country entails? Illegal activity. In essence you made the law so that only "drug mules" or "weapons dealers" can enter the country legally.

That is quite frankly completely disgusting considering that these people helped you fight for the rights that you have, but you deny them those same rights. Then you go from disgusting into 'lowest scumbag on earth' mode and you start flinging around racist comments about them, most of which were the same exact comments used against Africans who you have long since accepted you were wrong about.

"Negros are uneducated" vs "Hispanics are uneducated"(They are uneducated because they are not given the chance at proper schooling)

"Negros are violents" vs "Hispanics are violent"(They are violent, because they are being treated like wild animals and they must defend themselves)

"They are not the same as us" vs "They are not from our country"(They helped build the backbone of this country in blood sweat and tears, their being different doesn't mean crap.)

--------------

PS-For those who say "This is America, speak English!". America, is a land mass that was Spanish long before it was English. Even the word America (What you proclaim to be your country's name) is Spanish.

So in essence we carved ourselves a piece of land, killed off the real owners and declared it our own.. We fought for our freedom and had help.. Now when the people that helped us ask for entry into the country they helped make.. We say no fck you.. Ok good logic.

Edited by xFelix

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So you're saying that if your livelihood were at stake and your government refused to help, you would not take appropriate action because it is illegal?

You want to talk law, let's talk law..

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Lukumi_Babalu_Aye_v._City_of_Hialeah

------------

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/15/17761151-new-york-gun-owners-now-must-register-assault-weapons?lite

Those examples being given, and I can go into the hundreds if not thousands of examples...It's safe to say that laws that are unfair and illegal have been made and it is possible for a law to be overly protective to a point where some must surrender their rights in order for the laws to secure them.

In the case of most people migrating illegally, it is because they are desperate and feel that their lives and that of their families lives could be at risk. Their only recourse being to flee, and where they would love to enter the land of the free legally... The land of the free makes the process quite literally impossible for them. They then find that the immigration laws in effect are not only unfair, but inhumane. It is decided that they are in too desperate a position to wait for months or years and costing thousands to get a little paper.. So they decide at that moment to cross the border, work hard and save up every penny so that they can then afford the paper work needed to stay.

You want to mention economics?

Hispanics did help fight in the war that made 'Merica a free nation, Hispanics have fought in every war since, Hispanics been been a productive member of society, but we made laws that quite frankly mean "unless you are rich in your homeland we don't want you". Do you know what being rich within a Hispanic country entails? Illegal activity. In essence you made the law so that only "drug mules" or "weapons dealers" can enter the country legally.

That is quite frankly completely disgusting considering that these people helped you fight for the rights that you have, but you deny them those same rights. Then you go from disgusting into 'lowest scumbag on earth' mode and you start flinging around racist comments about them, most of which were the same exact comments used against Africans who you have long since accepted you were wrong about.

"Negros are uneducated" vs "Hispanics are uneducated"(They are uneducated because they are not given the chance at proper schooling)

"Negros are violents" vs "Hispanics are violent"(They are violent, because they are being treated like wild animals and they must defend themselves)

"They are not the same as us" vs "They are not from our country"(They helped build the backbone of this country in blood sweat and tears, their being different doesn't mean crap.)

--------------

PS-For those who say "This is America, speak English!". America, is a land mass that was Spanish long before it was English. Even the word America (What you proclaim to be your country's name) is Spanish.

So in essence we carved ourselves a piece of land, killed off the real owners and declared it our own.. We fought for our freedom and had help.. Now when the people that helped us ask for entry into the country they helped make.. We say no fck you.. Ok good logic.

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I said exactly what I said. The paraphrase you are arguing with is of your own construction. But to answer your question, in a word, yes. Many times my livelihood has not only been threatened but has disappeared entirely and the laws against robbing banks kept me from "taking appropriate action" in lieu of government help.

I was only commenting that immigration policy is defined by the laws that Congress has enacted, "right or wrong" as I originally stated. I was not, nor will not, enter into a lengthy discussion about all our laws. Not only would it lead to a discussion of absurdities such as why there are no whales in Kansas it would take us even further off topic than some have already strayed.

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Posted (edited)

I said exactly what I said. The paraphrase you are arguing with is of your own construction. But to answer your question, in a word, yes. Many times my livelihood has not only been threatened but has disappeared entirely and the laws against robbing banks kept me from "taking appropriate action" in lieu of government help.

I was only commenting that immigration policy is defined by the laws that Congress has enacted, "right or wrong" as I originally stated. I was not, nor will not, enter into a lengthy discussion about all our laws. Not only would it lead to a discussion of absurdities such as why there are no whales in Kansas it would take us even further off topic than some have already strayed.

I call bs, anybody that truly finds their life in danger does not give a crap what the law says, they do what they have to do in order to survive. Stating otherwise is bordering on mental illness. This is EXACTLY why when unemployment goes up so does crime rates, but when unemployment goes down so does crime rates.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/crimwage.htm
http://www.cepr.org/press/DP2129.htm

So you're saying that even though the immigration laws are completely unwarranted you will not argue that, or any other laws, you will instead say that immigrants shouldn't enter illegally?

Just saying, but if we are really to go by this standard of asking others for help and then slamming the door on them when they need ours... We are doomed as a nation.

Edited by xFelix

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Posted (edited)

I call bs, anybody that truly finds their life in danger does not give a crap what the law says, they do what they have to do in order to survive. Stating otherwise is bordering on mental illness. This is EXACTLY why when unemployment goes up so does crime rates, but when unemployment goes down so does crime rates.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/crimwage.htm
http://www.cepr.org/press/DP2129.htm

So you're saying that even though the immigration laws are completely unwarranted you will not argue that, or any other laws, you will instead say that immigrants shouldn't enter illegally?

Just saying, but if we are really to go by this standard of asking others for help and then slamming the door on them when they need ours... We are doomed as a nation.

As long as you're going to keep telling me what you think I'm saying and then disputing something I never said, you might as well just make up my answer too. But for the record, there is no BS in my replies. Even when destitute I kept my moral bearings and did not resort to crime. Robbing a bank, and surely getting caught, would have been the effective end of my life not it's salvation. By enduring and coping with my personal hardships in a manner not harmful to others I survived to live again. I cannot account for or defend those who resort to crime when they are unemployed. They probably have an external excuse for all of their shortcomings and misjudgements, whether in good times or bad.

Edited by Big Jim
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I don't know of many other countries who would accept 11 million mostly unemployed, mostly uneducated illegals.

It's a bad idea in this day and age. You must be able to provide for your own before helping everyone else.

Why not compromise and give them temporary visas.

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Fmr. Sen. Jim DeMint: $6.3 trillion immigration price tag ‘irrefutable’

The Fine Print

Former Sen. Jim DeMint (R – S.C.) is standing by the controversial Heritage Foundation study that put a $6.3 trillion price tag on the Senate immigration bill, saying: “There’s no doubt that these numbers are real.”

He also says he has no regrets about leaving the Senate to become president of the Heritage Foundation, recalling his recent years in the Senate as similar to “being on a treadmill going nowhere.”

“I’m at a place now at Heritage where I can have more impact on public policy than I could as a United States senator,” says DeMint.

As the Senate debates an immigration bill, DeMint is at the center of a dispute at Heritage. The conservative policy group released a report last week citing the $6.3 billion cost of the bill over 50 years, which many on both sides of the aisle have rebuked as overblown. The report faced further scrutiny after it was discovered that its co-author, Jason Richwine, has previously made controversial arguments based on race.

While Richwine has since resigned from the Heritage Foundation, and the organization has distanced itself from his previous writings, DeMint is not backing away from the report’s findings.

“The towering cost of moving forward this way is something everyone should stop and think, ‘Okay, let's check the numbers out, see if they're real,’” DeMint says. “I think they're irrefutable. I have done a lot of research in my life, there's no doubt that these numbers are real.”

DeMint discounts the argument made by supporters of the legislation that there will be long-term benefit to the U.S. economy.

“Some are suggesting that just having these additional workers is going to improve the economy and help everyone…There is no way over a fifty year period that this is going to improve the economy to a point that actually creates a benefit to American taxpayers,” he says.

DeMint contends that many of the estimated 10-12 million people to whom the bill would extend a path to citizenship will rely on government services more than they contribute in taxes.

“They take out over $9 trillion, they put in around $3 [trillion], but the net is a cost to taxpayers of $6.3 [trillion],” DeMint says.

While DeMint says the Heritage Foundation is supportive of the concept of immigration reform, he characterizes the current compromise as “blanket amnesty.”

“A true immigration reform would create a lot of benefits for America…but to get those benefits we don't have to offer this blanket amnesty for those who came here unlawfully,” he says. “It’s not fair to the 4 million people all around the world waiting to come here lawfully, costs way too much, and will make problems worse.”

Taken from http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-players-abc-news/fmr-sen-jim-demint-6-3-trillion-immigration-112640100.html

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I don't know of many other countries who would accept 11 million mostly unemployed, mostly uneducated illegals.

It's a bad idea in this day and age. You must be able to provide for your own before helping everyone else.

Why not compromise and give them temporary visas.

I agree with that idea. Give them a way to earn their right to stay, but you can't just say fck it GET OUT.

I'm even for the idea of having them allowed only under temporary work visas in which they agree to pay taxes and only upon reaching a certain tax paid amount are they eligible for citizenship.

The issue with the way that politicians are wanting to do this is that they're again attempting to make it a long and demanding process costing too much. Simplify the process.

Solution: All those who are here illegally, but are working, non violent offenders can come and apply for temporary visa. Once you reach 5,000USD(just an example) Taxes paid you become eligible for citizenship. You may only become a citizen if you remain a non-violent offender the entire duration of your stay within the country, and at any time if you do become a violent offender you surrender your citizenship and right to residence.

The visa can be set to expire within 30 days of failure to be gainfully employed.

Just saying, as opposed to saying GET OUT, we should be saying EARN IT..

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Posted (edited)

I agree with that idea. Give them a way to earn their right to stay, but you can't just say fck it GET OUT.

I'm even for the idea of having them allowed only under temporary work visas in which they agree to pay taxes and only upon reaching a certain tax paid amount are they eligible for citizenship.

The issue with the way that politicians are wanting to do this is that they're again attempting to make it a long and demanding process costing too much. Simplify the process.

Solution: All those who are here illegally, but are working, non violent offenders can come and apply for temporary visa. Once you reach 5,000USD(just an example) Taxes paid you become eligible for citizenship. You may only become a citizen if you remain a non-violent offender the entire duration of your stay within the country, and at any time if you do become a violent offender you surrender your citizenship and right to residence.

The visa can be set to expire within 30 days of failure to be gainfully employed.

Just saying, as opposed to saying GET OUT, we should be saying EARN IT..

I agree with that. :tu:

I just have a problem with this "blanket" amnesty going on. If they want to be here, they need to earn it just like everyone else did.

Edited by Kowalski
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I agree with that. :tu:

I just have a problem with this "blanket" amnesty going on. If they want to be here, they need to earn it just like everyone else did.

I say we ditch our current politicians and empower UM posters, seeing as how we just solved an issue that has been going on forever in no time.. lol

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