Are we in Hell?

[libstaK]

Basically, we are where we think we are.

[tapirmusic]

"Hell is other people."

[spiritualghosthaunting]

What I have gained is an ability to survive, an ability to get back up, an ability to have the courage to face my grief, to cry my tears, to say I am afraid when I am, to be authentic in facing my life on its terms. I don't dismiss the value of using hindsight to find a way/perspective to produce some applicable wisdom in the senseless awful situations, but even then sometimes in life there is not even that possibility--AND all I can do is face the moment and that is the best I can make of my life, just to keep standing, and that is good enough for me.

None of those are directly related to you. You're not the one who got deathly sick. You're not the one who committed suicide. You're not the one who was the target of murder. It's only natural for you to move on because you don't have any mental problems. You don't have bipolar disorder and OCD. We've all risen above bad situations outside of ourselves. How about those who are constantly under attack, ill because of incurable sickness, on the edge to find their next meal, depressed because the medication has lost its effectiveness?

[Mr Walker]

Basically, we are where we think we are.

I would say we are all as we chose to be.

None of those are directly related to you. You're not the one who got deathly sick. You're not the one who committed suicide. You're not the one who was the target of murder. It's only natural for you to move on because you don't have any mental problems. You don't have bipolar disorder and OCD. We've all risen above bad situations outside of ourselves. How about those who are constantly under attack, ill because of incurable sickness, on the edge to find their next meal, depressed because the medication has lost its effectiveness?

Because human emotional conditions are laregly intellectual ie, self aware, we can chose the emotional response we want. The only people who cannot do this are, as you point out, those who are mentally impaired and mentally incapable of regulating their emotional responses. They have no choice.

The rest of us respond as we have learned or been conditioned to respond. One can relearn how to respond to any situation. We may feel grief because we would feel guilty not to, but a person can learn to be "stoical" or non emotional about any situation. We often feel as we think we should feel, even when that hurts us unneccessarily. SOme people even think hurting is good and naturlal, and that if they dont feel hurt, they are not being human.

But all emotions can be regulated You can feel appropriate concern or grief without allowing it to become overwhelming or disabling You can learn to be happy when a loved one dies You can learn not to be worried or afraid when you are very ill or even terminal.

it depends how you prefer to feel. No one needs to feel trapped by emotions. If you chose to feel worry pain grief etc that's ok, but if you chose not to suffer these things, you do not have to.

There is a differnce between doing every thimg practical to overcome or help in such situations but when you have done all you can then there is no need to worry or fear or grive it is unnecessary and often unproductive. So, if you are worried or stressed by something you can take action on, then that is productive worry which might spur you to action, but to worry about something outside your power to influence is pointless.

Here's a minoir example. Yesterday I tried for an hour to get through to a telco provider (the nations biggest) who had not sent me an account or a bill since I signed up with them, but they were very busy and I could not get through. I got frustrated and a bit angry at the waste of time and inefficiency But then i realised these emotions were unprocductive and unhelpful, so i just "removed them."

Then I got through to a very nice bloke who helped me out and solved the problem within a few minutes. I spoke to him calmly and politely and thanked him for his help and his professionalism.

His reply stunned me. He said "No. Thank you. We have had a frantic day here, and all day I have had customers abusing me and yelling at me. It was so nice to hear someone speak respectfully, rationally, and politely to me"

My response was that, indeed, I had felt frustrated, but it had not even occured to me to show that frustration and anger to him. He was not to blame, and it would have been wrong to take out my frustrations on him.

He had spent a whole day being abused by people who could not, or would not, modify their anger and frustration when speaking to him. Yet when he spoke to me at the end of the day it was still with calm, helpful, professionalism. I spoke to his supervisor and commended his attitude and ability.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

None of those are directly related to you. You're not the one who got deathly sick. You're not the one who committed suicide. You're not the one who was the target of murder. It's only natural for you to move on because you don't have any mental problems. You don't have bipolar disorder and OCD. We've all risen above bad situations outside of ourselves. How about those who are constantly under attack, ill because of incurable sickness, on the edge to find their next meal, depressed because the medication has lost its effectiveness?

I hear you, I acknowledge there are many situations that "being happy" rising above it all is not going to help. Then what? What self help quote can one say to someone or themselves who is homeless, or depressed, or Schizophrenic-- that will help? "Change your attitude, you are what you think, heaven is a state of mind?" I agree there are things that suck and that are not going to get better no matter what one thinks. In those times there is nothing to say or offer accept human kindness/compassion and that may not be enough. What about those experiences and are people less then because they do not find a way to be happy or can not be happy about it? You bring in good points.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

I hear you, I acknowledge there are many situations that "being happy" rising above it all is not going to help. Then what? What self help quote can one say to someone or themselves who is homeless, or depressed, or Schizophrenic-- that will help? "Change your attitude, you are what you think, heaven is a state of mind?" I agree there are things that suck and that are not going to get better no matter what one thinks. In those times there is nothing to say or offer accept human kindness/compassion and that may not be enough. What about those experiences and are people less then because they do not find a way to be happy or can not be happy about it? You bring in good points.

Is it healthier and more productive to be homeless hungry and miserable or homelesshungry and happy? Is it healthier and more productive to be dieing and miserable or dieing and happy? Is it healthier and more productive to have a loved one terminally ill and to be woried and unhappy or to remain unworried and happy?

The important thing in your post is do DO all one can for self or others to allievate the situation But when that is done and no more can be done why chose to worry fear or grieve? It is not being homeless and hungry which MAKES one unhappy. There is no direct causal neurological linkage. One gets unhappy and worried almost because one is expected to feel this way when one doesn't have a home or enough to eat.

I once went homless for 6 weeks by choice (in my university holidays) to see what it was like without a place to live in or any other possesions that i could not carry with me. That is differnt to being homelss by circumastance. ONLY in ones mental perception and response. It was one of the happiest and most carefree times of my life, albeit physically hard and uncomfortable. I was young at the time, which helped. But i never felt afraid or worried despite living rough on the streets, and in city parklands.

Admittedly I was sober, and had a good mind, which allowed me access to many solutions people affected by drugs and alcohol or mental illness can't acces witheir minds. Ie i could problem solve and find basic sources of food sanitation and shelter quite easily.

On the other hand, in those days there were neither subsidised shelters nor income support for the homeless, so i lived on my scholarship income of $20 dollars a week less the $12 dollars a week I had to continue paying for my boarding accomodation which i had temporarilly given up the use of.

A person whose mind is functioning within normal parameters will act to overcome homelessness and hunger or at least the worst effects of these. And it is harder to act if one is beset by fear worry and doubt.

Ps All the best for your son. I am not making personal comments about your own reactions here, because you will react as you feel best and you are a pretty cluey woman, but i sincerely hope all goes well, and everything works out for the best.

[+Sherapy]

Is it healthier and more productive to be homeless hungry and miserable or homelesshungry and happy? Is it healthier and more productive to be dieing and miserable or dieing and happy? Is it healthier and more productive to have a loved one terminally ill and to be woried and unhappy or to remain unworried and happy?

The important thing in your post is do DO all one can for self or others to allievate the situation But when that is done and no more can be done why chose to worry fear or grieve? It is not being homeless and hungry which MAKES one unhappy. There is no direct causal neurological linkage. One gets unhappy and worried almost because one is expected to feel this way when one doesn't have a home or enough to eat.

I once went homless for 6 weeks by choice (in my university holidays) to see what it was like without a place to live in or any other possesions that i could not carry with me. That is differnt to being homelss by circumastance. ONLY in ones mental perception and response. It was one of the happiest and most carefree times of my life, albeit physically hard and uncomfortable. I was young at the time, which helped. But i never felt afraid or worried despite living rough on the streets, and in city parklands.

Admittedly I was sober, and had a good mind, which allowed me access to many solutions people affected by drugs and alcohol or mental illness can't acces witheir minds. Ie i could problem solve and find basic sources of food sanitation and shelter quite easily.

On the other hand, in those days there were neither subsidised shelters nor income support for the homeless, so i lived on my scholarship income of $20 dollars a week less the $12 dollars a week I had to continue paying for my boarding accomodation which i had temporarilly given up the use of.

A person whose mind is functioning within normal parameters will act to overcome homelessness and hunger or at least the worst effects of these. And it is harder to act if one is beset by fear worry and doubt.

Ps All the best for your son. I am not making personal comments about your own reactions here, because you will react as you feel best and you are a pretty cluey woman, but i sincerely hope all goes well, and everything works out for the best.

Thank you MW, my son is on the mend and he will recover. My point is there are times in life where things do happen that are not happy things no matter how one slices/spins it. And things can get worse. Of course one uses whatever means they have to try and effect change/peace even if it is just an attitude-- but quite frankly it doesn't always help/work. For me, the way I got through my sons accident was by facing it for what it was, terrified and uncertain. And taking care of myself, eating and resting, that is all I could do. It sucked, It is not something I want to do again. In hind sight-- now that everything is going to be okay, I have had time to reflect and glean some wisdom that I can apply in my life now. Would I say I am better for the experience, no I am not. I would not wish anyone to have an experience that included them sitting by their child in a coma wondering if they had brain damage or not. There is nothing in that experience that was so eye opening or earth moving that I could of not gleaned other ways, but life isn't like that MW-- it is hard at times and no fun at times and the best one can do is get through it. Fortunately, it has good moments too at least for me. Thank you for your post.

[Frank Merton]

There are a number of different personality types of drunk person, and I'm one of those know as a "happy drunk." It's embarrassing how funny I think everything everyone says is, how pleased I am with my state, and so on. Some "mean drunk" tries to start a fight and I can't help but giggle like a girl. Of course, some other "mean drunk" generally butts in to rescue me.

Is this "happiness" or just alcohol? Happiness is I guess largely chemical, or Prozac wouldn't work.

It's known that forcing your face into a smile, no matter how bad you feel, makes you feel better. So does taking a deep breath and letting it out in a sigh.

One thing that generally doesn't create lasting happiness is getting what we want. It just makes us want more. I think there is a state responsibility to provide a minimum for everyone, so that universal happiness is possible. However, it won't happen.

Maybe being happy is not so important after all. Maybe not even filling fulfilled and having purpose in life is important. Maybe nothing is important and we should just relax a little.

[SHaYap]

I guess hell or heaven is just a direction in life .....

[docyabut2]

Maybe I am a little odd , but to me hell is here:) a earth with strange laws, painted over by the beautiful colors.Jesus said heaven was within so I looking there:) I do believe in miracles, my Son fell 50ft from a bridge on to some railroad tracks, he was in a coma for there months and the docs kept saying he won`nt make it, but he did and came out of it with a lot of damages to his body. Ten years later now But his mind is good and his body is still going walking and living the every day good life.

[Babe Ruth]

Many times this is hell. War is hell, and so are other bad situations.

But sitting on the beach or a mountain watching a beautiful sunrise or sunset is pretty close to heaven.

[+Sherapy]

There are a number of different personality types of drunk person, and I'm one of those know as a "happy drunk." It's embarrassing how funny I think everything everyone says is, how pleased I am with my state, and so on. Some "mean drunk" tries to start a fight and I can't help but giggle like a girl. Of course, some other "mean drunk" generally butts in to rescue me.

Is this "happiness" or just alcohol? Happiness is I guess largely chemical, or Prozac wouldn't work.

It's known that forcing your face into a smile, no matter how bad you feel, makes you feel better. So does taking a deep breath and letting it out in a sigh.

One thing that generally doesn't create lasting happiness is getting what we want. It just makes us want more. I think there is a state responsibility to provide a minimum for everyone, so that universal happiness is possible. However, it won't happen.

Maybe being happy is not so important after all. Maybe not even filling fulfilled and having purpose in life is important. Maybe nothing is important and we should just relax a little.

I agree.

I am not going to be happy all the time, nor am I going to be miserable all the time.

For me, I just live my life and go from there. I am concerned with living my life-- not controlling it. It is in this wisdom-- I have found my way to peace and happiness, ironically. But this will not be for everyone and that is okay with me..

Edited May 16, 2013 by Sherapy

[SHaYap]

a good read now and then helps a lot too ....

[Kowalski]

a good read now and then helps a lot too ....

William Blake!

[SHaYap]

William Blake!

Billy Blake to you !

[Kowalski]

There was a really good BBC Documentary (on Youtube) called The Romantics with Peter Ackroyd, which is really good. Anyway, William Blake is one of the main writers they focus on. It's really a good documentary.

[SHaYap]

Reading and Writing GO together // many so called writers of today seems to forget that ....

I can't help but think I see the 'copy paste' syndrome when I read some of the new 'bestsellers' today ....

[teanpa]

nope just a big cell

Good point.

[Mnemonix]

This must be the Hell before the real Hell begins.

[Arpee]

I know it's a weird thought, but sometimes I wonder if what we are experiencing now, is, in fact Hell.

Now is how you choose to look at it.

Hell is separation from God, so if your thoughts be of lonliness or hatred (separation/conflict) then your thoughts will be making your own hell.

Beyond the hell, beyond the feelings of separation from the thoughts of lonliness, hatred, or desire (separation from something that you want) there is Heaven.

Are we all the "fallen angels", disconnected from "God", and living our lives through poverty or the "money" god.

Without a judgement of Good and Evil (Forbidden Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil / Judge not Lest ye be judged)

There is no imperfection or disconnection or "fallen" angels.

"fallen" is a judgement - humans formed judgement through knowledge of the fruit.

[FlyingAngel]

When you are making love with your partner. Ask the same question: "Am I in hell?" I'm sure the answer will be different.

[DeWitz]

Well, Pallidin, I had similar thoughts when I first burned one with a Bob Marley tribute band in Bar Harbor, Maine back in '84, but now I'm not so sure. It's kind of like that speculation, "Is our universe really just a dust mote in the pocket of some alien granny's housecoat as she shooes the alien stray cats away with her light saber?" It's fun to cogitate about, but ultimately. . . who knows?

[SHaYap]

heaven used to be so much more simple //

[freetoroam]

Well, Pallidin, I had similar thoughts when I first burned one with a Bob Marley tribute band in Bar Harbor, Maine back in '84, but now I'm not so sure. It's kind of like that speculation, "Is our universe really just a dust mote in the pocket of some alien granny's housecoat as she shooes the alien stray cats away with her light saber?" It's fun to cogitate about, but ultimately. . . who knows?

Have you been been having a go on Bob`s wacky backy?

[freetoroam]

heaven used to be so much more simple //

She really should have worn trousers!