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Jon101

Khufu's Grave Goods

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Posted (edited)

I have long been interested in the pyramids, and even many years ago I was a bit of a fringe believer,. Long ago I realised that although the Giza pyramids are magnificent, so many other Egyptian buildings are arguably more fascinating, personally I find Sneferu's constructions far more interesting than the Gizan buildings.

However the 'Great Pyramid' is well named, and almost paradoxically empty.

What do you think would have been placed within the pyramid along with Khufu's body?.

For an informed context I give you a very reasoned and pertinent viewpoint given to me by KMT_SESH a while ago, ( I hope you don't mind me quoting you KMT)

, "I must state that we cannot know with any certainty what kind of treasures and grave goods Khufu took with him into his final resting place. We tend to think of all royal tombs in terms of King Tutankhamun and what was found inside his KV62 in 1922, but Tut lived a thousand years after the pyramid age and represents a very different time and state religious system. And to be sure, I'd argue Egypt was a hell of a lot wealthier and more powerful than it was back in Khufu's time.".

I would be very interested to know what you think may once have been deposited in the G.P.

Edited by Jon101
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I always thought Akhenaten, Tut's father, was the weird one. The man looked weird, his body, his head and Tut's head looked a lot like his.

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Here's some pictures. Tell me if Akhenaten doesn't look weird.

http://www.crystalinks.com/akhenaten.html

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The Avon Lady wasn't around then ...

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He needed a cosmetic surgeon.

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Tut had a elongated head just like him. Scroll down and look at his head.

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html

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Posted (edited)

Tut had a elongated head just like him. Scroll down and look at his head.

http://www.ancient-e....org/index.html

what's his head doing down there ? I don't see it ...

just this guy :

Recommended Taxi Services

Hagag Rusdhi Taufik

"el Bes"

Taxi driver

Luxor - West Bank - Egypt :lol:

:unsure2:

~edit : emergency loo run

Edited by third_eye

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Tut had a elongated head just like him. Scroll down and look at his head.

http://www.ancient-e....org/index.html

His head's actually not elongated, it's well within normal human variation. He'd look normal if he had hair.

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I'm not completely sure about this, but I don't think Khufu was around at a time when it was considered normal to bling out a tomb, or bury them with all their fancy goods.

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Posted (edited)

They do seem to have been buried with expensive goods and "bling" at that time, though I would not have thought on the scale as in later periods. I think a gold diadem of a princess was found in one of the Giza tombs from dynasty four, but cannot swear to this, it may be from dynasty twelve. Here is a link to the wiki of Queen Hetepheres I, probably the GRW of Sneferu. There are pictures and descriptions of some of the goods recovered from one of her tombs, and there was some gold.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Hetepheres_I

And here is a photo of her bed. Notice how similar it is, and the headrest, to those found in tomb of Tutankhamun from over a thousand years further on. Though beds don't seem to have changed much even since Tut's days, or chairs, or us.

c41903cd5c65.jpg

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri
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Posted (edited)

Thank you for that post, I too was instantly reminded of the bed/couch from Tutankhamuns tomb.

All the tombs I have seen and read about, ( although I have been a member of the Sussex Archaeological Society for years, I haven't examined any kind of burial in an official capacity), have , if robbed, been full of debris and miscellaneous detritus from shattered objects and scattered mummified remains. I know that 'official' state sanctioned tomb robberies took place, (The Abbott and the Amherst papyrus both detail state sanctioned incursions into tombs), but was this likely with the Great pyramid?.

My wife is a forensic technician and has suggested to me that simply going over the floor spaces of the G.P. with cellotape, (paying close attention to the gaps between the floor slabs), would give a wealth of examinable and categorical dust/ or fragments.

Does anyone know if this has been done?, has forensic archaeology been practised in Giza?.

My wife specialises in Forensic botany and entomology, (she cross references within a wide network of peers to enable herself to do this), and is adamant that small fragments of gold leaf or wood could be found or possibly biologically identifiable material.

Given the length of the access routes to the chambers in the G.P. isn't it unlikely that any 'robbers' official or otherwise would have removed even the sarcophagus lid and a fragment of the sarcophagus along with all the grave goods.

I accept that Kufu built the pyramid, and I think that perhaps he and his accoutrements were removed to another location, possibly hundreds of years later, and being pragmatic that later state may have decided to recycle any valuable goods rather than intern them for a second time - but there should be some trace in those tortuous passages.

Where is the sarcophagus lid?, I met a Professor at Oxford who was adamant it went down with a ship in the med. back in victorian times, but I don't remember much more than that.

Edited by Jon101
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I'm still very doubtful about this sarcophagus lid. There is account that something with a lid on it was found, but the description (which I don't have to hand) more fits an anthropoid coffin than a sacophagus lid. This is from the first account of entry into the GP in post ancient times. And as AE did not use anthropoid coffins at that time, then that description could be evidence that a later king was interred in the GP. Yet another mystery.... I cannot see why the lid, which from existing examples of the time, would be quite plain, would be removed. Levered off the sacophagus and dropped to the floor yes, but then removed, and with some great difficulty, is difficult to believe, but not impossible.

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Yes, the lid is in my opinion more of a mystery than the pyramid itself.

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And as with forensics, often it is the little things, the things we dismiss when looking at a bigger picture (or pyramid), that may hold the keys...

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My opinion is that the pyramid was cleaned out by robbers. Probably only a generation after the Giza complex was finished. Many accounts say that the outer door swung out on a hinge and allowed access to the tomb. And, from what I've read, it was possible to climb over the granite dorrs in the Grand Gallery, and was possible to make it to the Kings Chamber without so much as digging up a single stone.

As to why nothing was left behind. I think the robbers would have taken everything. Take it out into the sun to look to see what they've got. Most likely the robbers would have only had small dim lamps or candles, and so could not have really seen what they were doing other then to grab sacks of stuff and get back out.

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Given the length of the access routes to the chambers in the G.P. isn't it unlikely that any 'robbers' official or otherwise would have removed even the sarcophagus lid and a fragment of the sarcophagus along with all the grave goods.

I accept that Kufu built the pyramid, and I think that perhaps he and his accoutrements were removed to another location, possibly hundreds of years later, and being pragmatic that later state may have decided to recycle any valuable goods rather than intern them for a second time - but there should be some trace in those tortuous passages.

Where is the sarcophagus lid?, I met a Professor at Oxford who was adamant it went down with a ship in the med. back in victorian times, but I don't remember much more than that.

IMHO, the missing sarcophagus lid isn't that hard to explain, like many tombs the GP wasn't only visited by tomb robbers but also by stone robbers. Some of the granite porticulis blocks that sealed the KC from the Great Gallery have been found outside the pyramid, the lid was also removed and probably re-used or recarved for other purposes (or smashed when the pyramid was robbed). Same with many granite casing stones from Khafre's pyramid.

Given the fact that of all pyramids the GP is/was the most famous and attracted the most attention both in ancient and modern times, it isn't all that surprising that it was totally emptied.

The ship that sunk in the med. back in victorian times had the sarcophagus of Menkaure on board.

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Where is the sarcophagus lid?, I met a Professor at Oxford who was adamant it went down with a ship in the med. back in victorian times, but I don't remember much more than that.

That might have been Menkaure's sarcophagus the Professor was thinking about?;

"Vyse made only one reference to the loss of the sarcophagus. “It was embarked at Alexandria,” he wrote,“in the autumn of 1838 on board a merchant-ship, which was supposed to have been lost off Carthagena, as she was never heard of after her departure from Leghorn on the 12th October in that year, and some parts of the wreck were picked up near the former port.” The ship was the Beatrice...

http://egyptologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/lost-sarcophagus.html

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My wife is a forensic technician and has suggested to me that simply going over the floor spaces of the G.P. with cellotape, (paying close attention to the gaps between the floor slabs), would give a wealth of examinable and categorical dust/ or fragments.

Does anyone know if this has been done?, has forensic archaeology been practised in Giza?.

My wife specialises in Forensic botany and entomology, (she cross references within a wide network of peers to enable herself to do this), and is adamant that small fragments of gold leaf or wood could be found or possibly biologically identifiable material.

Given the length of the access routes to the chambers in the G.P. isn't it unlikely that any 'robbers' official or otherwise would have removed even the sarcophagus lid and a fragment of the sarcophagus along with all the grave goods.

It's a crime against mankind that evidence is being ignored, destroyed, or left alone. I agree

that the first thing that needs to be done is forensic analysis. I believe though that a new kind

of forensics needs to be invented before it is applied to the great pyramids. Essentially nothing

much changes except that modern surgical equipment is used in conjunction with normal forensic

procedures.

I'll wager in advance they don't find anything they expect to find and what exists will prove all the

assumptions wrong. The theory hasn't stood up to the evidence already and wouldn't start being

consistent with it when real science is employed.

It's a wonder that there is no public outcry to answer these questions instead of writing ever more

books.

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IMHO, the missing sarcophagus lid isn't that hard to explain, like many tombs the GP wasn't only visited by tomb robbers but also by stone robbers. Some of the granite porticulis blocks that sealed the KC from the Great Gallery have been found outside the pyramid, the lid was also removed and probably re-used or recarved for other purposes (or smashed when the pyramid was robbed). Same with many granite casing stones from Khafre's pyramid.

Given the fact that of all pyramids the GP is/was the most famous and attracted the most attention both in ancient and modern times, it isn't all that surprising that it was totally emptied.

The ship that sunk in the med. back in victorian times had the sarcophagus of Menkaure on board.

If the so called sarcophagus lid existed and was of similar dimensions as the lids on

other stone boxes of the era it would not have fit out of the entrance. There has been

speculation that Al Mamuum's tunnel was actually made to fascilitate the removal of the

lid rather than to gain access to the pyramid.

Perhaps he wanted the lid out intact.

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If the so called sarcophagus lid existed and was of similar dimensions as the lids on

other stone boxes of the era it would not have fit out of the entrance. There has been

speculation that Al Mamuum's tunnel was actually made to fascilitate the removal of the

lid rather than to gain access to the pyramid.

Perhaps he wanted the lid out intact.

Or maybe it was not a sarcophagus but a bath tub.

The bottom is made of granite which is rough and not even slightly dressed in any form or decorated.

The only other alternate i can think of currently is that it housed the actual sarcophagus and it was just an external protective covering.

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