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Perfection

Why are atheists afraid of ghosts

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2007-08-13_200003.jpg

On many forums there are people claiming that they don't believe in God, & yet have had an encounter with a ghost or alien, or other type of being.

It seems logical to me that if any life at all can exist outside of our known reality, then surely God can also exist. And if you don't believe in God then you must also not believe in any type of being whatsoever that is from outside of our reality.

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I think it is more a case of there being many possible realms or dimensions even, but there is no evidence that a Supreme Being governs all these alternative worlds or that it required a Supreme Being for them to exist. Just playing devils advocate, I actually do believe there is a God myself.

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Why stop at ghosts and God? If you believe in them, why not a flying spaghetti monster on the far side of the sun? Or sock demons who steal your underwear and shove them down the back of the washing machine?

In short - you need to think critically about what people actually believe, rather than consider everything as a possibility.

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Posted (edited)

I've seen a ghost but not a flying spaghetti monster or sock demons.

Quit frankly I wonder if God was an alien.

Edited by Hilander
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There are many logical reasons why atheists might believe in ghosts or other paranormal thngs, although i suspect that many atheists do not believe in them using a consistent rationale and logic.

To play the cynic I suspect that humans can accept belief in ghosts bcaus it does not require them to change anything about their life. But to truly believ ein god (especaily the sort of god described in christian jewish and islamic beliefs) would mean you had to change your life, if you were logical and rational. Most modern people enjoy their lives and do not want to change them so they chose not to believ in god In the past and still insome places where life is hard, belief in god changed lives, almost always for the positive, but today it can seem limiting and restricting.

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I've seen things I can't explain - by can't explain I mean I cannot say if they were ghosts or interdimensional beings or swamp gas seeping through my concrete slab (yeh not so likely). Therefore I look for corroborating evidence as to what they might be, that does not mean everything is possible. It does mean I have evidence that I have no idea what the limits of existential possibilities are and have no reason to be dogmatically opposed to the idea of "ghosts".

Spaghetti Monsters are a different kettle of fish, their purpose is to provide a strawman for atheists to use in their arguments against the possibility of the existence of a God.

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What if it is really the ghosts who are afraid of atheists?

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...if you don't believe in God then you must also not believe in any type of being whatsoever that is from outside of our reality.

No. I don't understand that jump. The latter (not believing in any type of being whatsoever from outside of out reality) would make a rock solid belief for the former (not believing in a God), but it is not nearly as limited of a situation the other way around.

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What if it is really the ghosts who are afraid of atheists?

What was tha t Nicole Kidman film? ' The others"?
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I don't think Atheists have any reason to fear ghosts, most probably don't even believe in them.

Why would I say this? Well my opinion is based on my personal experience.

I don't believe in demons, thus I have no fear of them.

But I do believe in ghosts, which generates a possibility of fear in which I can either generate the courage to combat that fear and rationally try to understand their existence or I could just fear every single aspect of the ability for any random person to exist in an invisible way.

So in essence, my opinion is that if any Atheists fear ghosts it is the ones who believe in them and cannot muster the courage to try and consider them in a rational way.

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It seems logical to me that if any life at all can exist outside of our known reality, then surely God can also exist. And if you don't believe in God then you must also not believe in any type of being whatsoever that is from outside of our reality.

Why? How does this make sense? If God isn't needed, why does the afterlife need one?

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Why stop at ghosts and God? If you believe in them, why not a flying spaghetti monster on the far side of the sun? Or sock demons who steal your underwear and shove them down the back of the washing machine?

In short - you need to think critically about what people actually believe, rather than consider everything as a possibility.

A common straw man.

Never heard of anyone seeing the FSM or sock demon.

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I don't think I have met any atheists believing in spirits. I have met a few that have seen them but won't believe it though.

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....And if you don't believe in God then you must also not believe in any type of being whatsoever that is from outside of our reality.

that's a logical gap i couldn't even cross with a jet pack.....!

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Posted (edited)

that's a logical gap i couldn't even cross with a jet pack.....!

There is a basic logic in this although it doesnt hold true for everyone.

A person who decides god is not real because there is no evidence for god would, if consistent in their logic, also come to decide that everything for which there was no physical evidence was also unreal.

A person who decided that god was a pysicologicla construct of humans based on human need would if logicla decide that things like ghosts spirits of the dead etc were similar constructs . A person who decided tha thumans construct gods from pattern recognition gone too far might conclude the same about all things we "see" that do not really exist. A person who believed god was a product of an unbalanced mind might decide, using the same logic, that also ghosts etc are creations of a mind that is not working properly.

So actually, a person using consistent logic could easily conclude that gods and ghosts are both unreal, for the same reasons.

Of course some people are not consistent in their logic because they allow prior belief or emotion to influence them, or because they apply different evidentiary standards to different things. For excample it is clear that some people absolutely refuse to countenace the existence of god (for a whole host of personal reasons) but feel far less strongly about other paranormal entiities. If god walked up to (or materialised in front of) such a person and performed physical miracles before them they would doubt their own mind, so deeply ingrained is their refusal to accept the reality of god, but if they saw a ghost they might accept it much more readily. .

Edited by Mr Walker

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Posted (edited)

I just feel sorry for those who don't believe, I guess having the experience my faith has passed to belief. I was asked to test my understandings and did.

Here's one for the atheists to test: Living for the sake of others.

This principle states what you put out comes back. But it's beyond that, because its not just what you put out financially

(and for most atheists this what they care with most, there material wealth since there's nothing greater in the world and nothing after anyway) this means that giving all your heart to your family, community and going out of your way even to your own detriment to help others should come back to you. Now if it comes back as some form of Karma that means there's a external world you can't see opperating behind the sceans right? So if your an atheist and you believe in karma and then your not a true Athiest at all, No, your Agnostic! And since your agnostic why be critical of those who have gone further and actually encountered that being/beings who do call the shots and have learnt more, if you don't seek to understand what that invisible force is then your not just Agnostic but your also now choosing to be Ignorant (and you might take that as insult but its not ment to be, it's just saying you are choosing to IGNORE or be ignorant of that force rather than try understand it )

A true Athiest doesn't believe in Ghost,Karma, or any such invisible force...those who do are Ignorant Agnostics, and that level of ignorance depends on how much spiritual growth you have obtained.

I can assure you there is a God!( Check over the other thread occasionally about Spirit world,World works)... We're still yet to get to some of the deep topics like Indemnity. How fasting and other practices allow for payment. But what is the most powerful force in the world including in the NonCopereal world? It's love! What I'm telling you is if you give pure love to everybody then you won't need to seek God or Spiritual things, they will seek YOU! And not matter how hard you try not believe they will want to be around you and introduce themselves to you. Love is the answer atheists , try believing and trust in something more important than you. Take my test, what have you got to loose? If there's nothing out there as you think....TAKE THE TEST! Once you encounter something and become Agnostic , keep going and learning or else you are just deciding to continue to stay ignorant. Ask God to teach you and guide you with his Eyes.

Edited by Irrelevant

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Posted (edited)

Here's one for the atheists to test: Living for the sake of others.

This principle states what you put out comes back. But it's beyond that, because its not just what you put out financially

(and for most atheists this what they care with most, there material wealth since there's nothing greater in the world and nothing after anyway) this means that giving all your heart to your family, community and going out of your way even to your own detriment to help others should come back to you. Now if it comes back as some form of Karma that means there's a external world you can't see opperating behind the sceans right? So if your an atheist and you believe in karma and then your not a true Athiest at all, No, your Agnostic! And since your agnostic why be critical of those who have gone further and actually encountered that being/beings who do call the shots and have learnt more, if you don't seek to understand what that invisible force is then your not just Agnostic but your also now choosing to be Ignorant (and you might take that as insult but its not ment to be, it's just saying you are choosing to IGNORE or be ignorant of that force rather than try understand it )

Please tell us the definition of atheist or atheism.
I can assure you there is a God!( Check over the other thread occasionally about Spirit world,World works)...
You don't even know what an atheist is, now you're pretending to be someone credible.

Edit: Checked the thread, it is a bunch of opinions.

Edited by Rlyeh
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Hmmmm. Toes feel a little hurt huh?

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I just feel sorry for those who don't believe, I guess having the experience my faith has passed to belief. I was asked to test my understandings and did.

Here's one for the atheists to test: Living for the sake of others.

This principle states what you put out comes back. But it's beyond that, because its not just what you put out financially

(and for most atheists this what they care with most, there material wealth since there's nothing greater in the world and nothing after anyway) this means that giving all your heart to your family, community and going out of your way even to your own detriment to help others should come back to you. Now if it comes back as some form of Karma that means there's a external world you can't see opperating behind the sceans right? So if your an atheist and you believe in karma and then your not a true Athiest at all, No, your Agnostic! And since your agnostic why be critical of those who have gone further and actually encountered that being/beings who do call the shots and have learnt more, if you don't seek to understand what that invisible force is then your not just Agnostic but your also now choosing to be Ignorant (and you might take that as insult but its not ment to be, it's just saying you are choosing to IGNORE or be ignorant of that force rather than try understand it )

A true Athiest doesn't believe in Ghost,Karma, or any such invisible force...those who do are Ignorant Agnostics, and that level of ignorance depends on how much spiritual growth you have obtained.

I can assure you there is a God!( Check over the other thread occasionally about Spirit world,World works)... We're still yet to get to some of the deep topics like Indemnity. How fasting and other practices allow for payment. But what is the most powerful force in the world including in the NonCopereal world? It's love! What I'm telling you is if you give pure love to everybody then you won't need to seek God or Spiritual things, they will seek YOU! And not matter how hard you try not believe they will want to be around you and introduce themselves to you. Love is the answer atheists , try believing and trust in something more important than you. Take my test, what have you got to loose? If there's nothing out there as you think....TAKE THE TEST! Once you encounter something and become Agnostic , keep going and learning or else you are just deciding to continue to stay ignorant. Ask God to teach you and guide you with his Eyes.

I am an atheist and I can assure you the greatest thing in the world to me is not material wealth. I don't believe I am the most important thing in the world, either. I don't need the laws of the bible to treat other human beings kindly. In fact, it is a frightening thought that the only reason a majority of people aren't *******s or serial killers is because some old book tells them it's wrong. If that's the case, then your morals are still greatly skewed. I donate time and money to charities and I am kind to people. I can't carry cash around because I have a tendency to give it to the homeless. How many 'believers' can say that? It is ignorant to make a blanket statement about atheists like that when you apparently have no real experience being around them.

However, it is NOT ignorant to require proof of something in order to first believe it. If a man on the street offered you a drink and said it would give you the ability to fly, would you just take it? Hopefully not. Hopefully common sense would tell you that's not possible, and you'd want proof before you'd even consider drinking it. That's the same with me personally. So a book says there is a god, so what? There are a lot of books about a lot of gods. How do I know which theory is correct? The Christians and their single god? How about the ancient Egyptian Gods? Or the Greek Gods? Or the modern day Hindu Gods? The scientologists with the god they've recently created? Give me solid proof of which is real, then I will believe it.

And let's move on to the paranormal. Do I believe in ghosts? Not solidly. I have had things happen in my life that I couldn't explain, so I search for logical answers. There has to be some sort of logical scientific explanation behind the paranormal. Personally I tend to lean towards "Energy cannot be created or destroyed" and therefore perhaps we leave some sort of energy behind when we pass. I could be wrong. I'm waiting until we have solid, studied, proven answers.

In short, most atheists are nothing like what you said. So stop tossing the word ignorant around so loosely when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Want to know what atheists are actually like? Get to know some first. Do a little research. Don't just come up with a theory in your head and believe it without proof.

That's ignorant.

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Hmmmm. Toes feel a little hurt huh?

Is that meant to make sense?

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It's in the other thread, put up what you think you know or shut up.

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It's in the other thread, put up what you think you know or shut up.

Then you should keep it in that thread.
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I shall. But you likewise should tell us what you know because we would all like to hear something other than criticism...impart us your great wealth of Knowledge..live for the sake others and share what you know. take the test! Show me your God!

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I shall. But you likewise should tell us what you know because we would all like to hear something other than criticism...impart us your great wealth of Knowledge..live for the sake others and share what you know. take the test! Show me your God!

I have... you don't know what atheism is.

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2007-08-13_200003.jpg

On many forums there are people claiming that they don't believe in God, & yet have had an encounter with a ghost or alien, or other type of being.

It seems logical to me that if any life at all can exist outside of our known reality, then surely God can also exist. And if you don't believe in God then you must also not believe in any type of being whatsoever that is from outside of our reality.

When you say God, which one are you referring to?

There are a lot of then out there and not all support the idea of ghosts. Some sects of the Seventh Day Adventist believe in the Christian God but not in spirits or ghosts.

Theoretical physicists that support the string theory say there are possibly countless parallel dimensions with our own bizarro selves.

Consider also the omnipotence paradox:

One version of the omnipotence paradox is the so-called paradox of the stone: "Could an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that even he could not lift it?" If he could lift the rock, then it seems that the being would not have been omnipotent to begin with in that he would have been incapable of creating a heavy enough stone; if he could not lift the stone, then it seems that the being either would never have been omnipotent to begin with or would have ceased to be omnipotent upon his creation of the stone.[1]The argument is medieval, dating at least to the 12th century, addressed byAverroës (1126–1198) and later byThomas Aquinas.[2]Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite (before 532) has a predecessor version of the paradox, asking whether it is possible for God to "deny himself".

Also,.when you say it seems "logical" that if anything outside of our known reality exists then God must exist, it if more illogical since there is no absolute evidence of ethereal beings, extraterrestrial beings, dimensional beings, or anything close to it, including an omnipotent being, ie God.

There is nothing logical about religious beliefs. Therefore an atheist can believe whatever they want, the title only indicates a disbelief of an omnipotent being.

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