Cappadochia & Derenkuyu in Turkey

[Sheep Smart]

Back in 2011 I had the great opportunity to visiting Cappadochia and nearby Derenkuyu in Nevsehir, central Turkey . I decided while I was in Istanbul to take a few days and go there. Since ancient places are on my to see list., specifically , nearby Derenkuyu (ancient underground city).

Many are probably unfamiliar with the place but it is one of the most interesting ancient. Cities and it WAS a city, in the world and I believe only little is known about it. It dates back to the time of the Assyrians and Hitties , Persians etc. but I surmise it may dateback even further.

DERENKUYU was uncovered when a passageway was found behind a cave revealing what is a multi level underground city extending to a depth of approximately 60 m, it was large enough to shelter approximately 20,000 people together with their livestock and food stores. Equipped with air shafts . It is the largest excavated underground city in Turkey and the world and is one of several underground complexes found across Cappadocia. It was opened to visitors in 1969 and to date, about half of the underground city is accessible to tourists.

Its literally a maze and since im claustrophobic I didnt get very far down. Not to mention these massive multi ton circular round stone doors , the same ones on Indiana Jones, idk what theyre called but the sight of them from below being underground imagining they would roll closed was enough for me to happily run out.

It is a strange and amazing place. Ill be back again soon enough. Hopefully somewhat intoxicated this time..

So ive read a ton on it, recently it was in an ancient aliens episode. Naturally, a good place to connect aliens to.

Anyway, does anyone have other thoughts on its origins?

Aside from its occupational records, there doesnt seem to be a definitive on who actually made it. One theory is the one being that some of the first Christians have sought refuge there. Of course they werent the first though.

A pic from the inside and one of several stone doors ( which would indicate having to have means of protection in other words hiding out from someone, something )

,what it looks like amassed

And there Is in fact a small village above it.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Sheep Smart

[Harsh86_Patel]

Indian Epics like Mahabharata and Ramayana talk of the Asuras living in "Patal Lok" or the underworld.

The city you describe in your post fits in with the term.

Maybe when the ancients talked of Under World....they meant it literally. i.e it wasn't a synonym for Hell or any purgatory.

[The_Spartan]

The particular city of cappadocia was majorily carved out by early Christians before christianity became an accepted religion.

they used the caves as living/hiding places and as places of worship.

Sorry, not patal lok. But very well, western lok.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The particular city of cappadocia was majorily carved out by early Christians before christianity became an accepted religion.

they used the caves as living/hiding places and as places of worship.

Sorry, not patal lok. But very well, western lok.

Not true. Read my posts.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=238932

[The_Spartan]

i didn't say completely carved out, i said majorly carved out. there's a difference between them. The Christians who were avoiding persecution, expanded the underground cave city.

[Harsh86_Patel]

i didn't say completely carved out, i said majorly carved out. there's a difference between them. The Christians who were avoiding persecution, expanded the underground cave city.

Sorry not completely western lok's....................nevermind.

I was drawing similes.....hope you didn't find it nationalistic.

I read about underground city Derinkuyu with eight levels and 85 meters depth in Cappadocia which was used by early Christians as sanctuary and hiding place. Then I notice that theres over 200 underground cities there with 2 or 3 levels. Then I read about Kaymakli city and how Xenophon in his Anabasis wrote about people in Anatolia who lived underground. So that means we talking about 5 century BC. Thousands people could live comfortly in Derinkuyu with fresh water and air.Tunnel on third floor is connected to Kaymakli so 5km distant. At Derinkuyu each level could also be sealed individually.

So who built it?

According to wiki history of that area goes like this:

Cappadocia was known as Hatti in the late Bronze Age, and was the homeland of the Hittite power centred at Hattusa. After the fall of the Hittite Empire, with the decline of the Syro-Cappadocians (Mushki) after their defeat by the Lydian king Croesus in the 6th century, Cappadocia was ruled by a sort of feudal aristocracy, dwelling in strong castles and keeping the peasants in a servile condition, which later made them apt for foreign slavery. It was included in the third Persian satrapy in the division established by Darius, but continued to be governed by rulers of its own, none apparently supreme over the whole country and all more or less tributaries of the Great King.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Harsh86_Patel

[Harsh86_Patel]

Not true. Read my posts.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=238932

Patala is often translated as underworld or netherworld. Patala is composed of seven regions or lokas,^[4][5][6] the seventh and lowest of them is also called Patala or Naga-loka, the region of the Nagas. The Danavas (demon sons of Danu), Daityas (demon sons of Diti), Yakshas and the snake-people Nagas live in the realms of Patala.

Vishnu Purana tells of a visit by the divine wandering sage Narada to Patala. Narada describes Patala as more beautiful than Svarga (heaven). Patala is described as filled with splendid jewels, beautiful groves and lakes and lovely demon maidens. Sweet fragrance is in the air and is fused with sweet music. The soil here is white, black, purple, sandy, yellow, stony and also of gold

Rasātala is the home of the demons - Danavas and Daityas, who are mighty but cruel. They are the eternal foes of Devas (the gods). They live in holes like serpents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patala

The modern interpretation of patal lok vary...but taken literally it would mean a underground city.

There were supposed to be seven levels of these city/realm, there were brothels, gold mines and all form of luxury including Cannabis.

Atala is ruled by Bala - a son of Maya - who possesses mystical powers. By one yawn, Bala created three types of women - svairiṇīs ("self-willed"), who like to marry men from their own group; kāmiṇīs ("lustful"), who marry men from any group, and the puḿścalīs ("whorish"), who keep changing their partners. When a man enters Atala, these women enchant him and serve him an intoxicating cannabis drink that induces sexual energy in the man. Then, these women enjoy sexual play with the traveller, who feels to be stronger than ten thousand elephants and forgets impending death.

Atala was the first level. The myths say that travellers would stumble upon this realm and would never return because of the pleasures he finds there.Cannabis was commonly used in Anatoilia and turkey in the Past, so it can be a clue.

Interesting still, the Danavas i.e proposed occupents of "Patal lok" according to Mahabharata as described as such: (A seperate version of Danavas was also descirbed in the Rig Veda, but the RV is far older)

Adityas and daityas - beautiful light-haired white gods and demons

The "Mahabharata" speaks that daityas and danavas were very beautiful, their faces - "perfect as the moon", and their women - perfectly formed with a slender waist. Women of adityas also had "teeth of dazzling whiteness and indescribably perfect appearance", and men were white gods or demigods with a light and light-brown hair - what to speak still about? The leader of adityas Indra had a wide cheekbones, a light-red hair, whiskers and a beard.

"Mahabharata" narrates there were scientific people (earth tsar Abhiru), poets (daityas Vaishvanara) and noble tsars (earth tsars Brihat, Ashoka, Samudrasena) among daityas and danavas , which thought about prosperity and universal welfare.

http://www.dopotopa.com/lang1/adityas_daityas_and_danavas.html

In Vedic mythology the Danavas were a race of the Asuras.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danava_(Hinduism)

Asura's were a probably a people residing in the modern day Iran and Turkey regions. They are still worshipped by Zoarastrians as "Ahura Mazda" i.e Ahura/Asura... Devas of Hindu's and Asuras were arch enemies.

Hittite Empire [edit]

The Denyen have been identified with the people of Adana, in Cilicia who existed in late Hittite Empire times. They are also believed to have settled in Cyprus. A Hittite report^[3] speaks of a Muksus, who also appears in an eighth-century bilingual inscription from Karatepe in Cilicia. The kings of Adana are traced from the "house of Mopsos," given in hieroglyphic Luwian as Moxos and in Phoenician as Mopsos, in the form mps. They were called the Dananiyim.^[4] The area also reports a Mopsukrene (Mopsus' fountain) and a Mopsuhestia (Mopsus' hearth), also in Cilicia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denyen

[Harsh86_Patel]

So from where Hittites came from? From where they introduce iron to us? We know that they empire was found 1650 BC but did they fell in 1208 BC? Who dig all those underground cities? Did they came in Anatolia just before Mitanni came in north Mesopotamia and Aryans in India? Whats their connection with Mitannis? They both spoke IE language. Who attack Hittites and destroy their capital aroun 1400 BC? Kashkans?

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=238932

Each of those cities, again, O monarch, had a separate king. The beautiful city of gold belonged to the illustrious Tarakaksha: the silver city to Kamalaksha, and the iron one to Vidyunmalin. Those three Daitya kings, soon assailing the three worlds with their energy, continued to dwell and reign, and began to say, 'Who is he called the Creator?' Unto those foremost of Danavas having no heroes equal to them, came from every side millions upon millions, of proud and flesh-eating Danavas who had before been defeated by the celestials, and who now settled in the three cities, desirous of great prosperity

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08033.htm

And endued with immeasurable energy, that Danava, O king, dwelleth under the ground, and, O king, it behoveth thee to retire into the woods, having first slain that Asura.

Mbh.5.100.4700 Here in these regions called Patala, it hath been built with great care by the divine artificer, and planned by the Danava Maya.

[Sheep Smart]

The Spartan sais;

Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:19 AM.

The particular city of cappadocia was majorily carved out by early Christians before christianity became an accepted religion.they used the caves as living/hiding places and as places of worship.Sorry, not patal lok. But very well, western lok. 

I have to readress this because as a sole statement post, in virtue of a; no further questions-answer, its just wrong. For one you back this up with no reason, expression or evidence but the assumption that," this is it-pack up and go home folks."

Harsh pretty much cleared it up.

Christians utilized it later in refuge. They are probably responsible for solely adding Christian carvings ( as in etched out carvings ) to it and they're pretty limited at that. And these are not caves but a complete network and a city of divised subterranean chambers.

They were likey some of the last inhabitants of cappadocia as far as a 'peoples' in essence, a 'civilization' goes. More like as far as a majority goes. To credit the intricate and very misunderstood method of construction to the credit of a broadly used 'Christian s' is not only wrong but unfactual. And improbable.

The term CHRISTIANS is quite vague to say the least. Let alone the fact that cappadocia predates christianity altogether.

Aside from being very inconsistent with even early christian architect, there is little if any evidence to validate a vast underground multileveled multi-networked subterranean constructing method in comparison to those of christian temples or places of christian worship which is relative of monasteries and buildings build upward. Such as temples and churches etc.

When saying; "carved out (by Christians)" he seems to be implying actually dug out as in 11 carved out stories or levels in which case is incorrect by all means. Even suggesting adding a few carved out levels is insufficient. The one example obvious being the Hittites as harsh mentioned above, which completely predates Christianty altogether by far.

I've seen seldom few christian relics there which were really almost mainly in painting form. I've seen far more many Christian carvings in salt mines in poland. Hell, I've seen more in Birkenau ( in Auschwitz ).

Edited May 17, 2013 by Sheep Smart

[Sheep Smart]

I forgot to add, much of the hype emphasizing relative Christian antiquity is based HEAVILY on tourism directed to the west as Cappadocia is in a not so safe region of inner Turkey which is that of a muslim country. Unlike Giza as we've once so eloquently discussed overview a lovely romantic dinner not so long ago, I HAVE actually been here and seen very few which are almost all on the outermost upper level, chistian evidence as far as ' carvings' go. Most of which were in painting form.

And by the way Spartan,....

Your response is a fine example of someone who knows little if any information or fact on the subject but insists on shedding some wisdom which is seldom more than the highlighted content that google brings up , randomly, prior to clicking on the links content.

I believe I owe you this explanation for my explanation.

Cheers

Edited May 17, 2013 by Sheep Smart

[The_Spartan]

I never claim that i am a know it all.

In fact, i dont know many things.

I made a statement based on my understanding.

You corrected me.

I accept that i was wrong.

But, there no damn reason to go around blowing your trumpet for it.

capeesh?

[Harsh86_Patel]

I forgot to add, much of the hype emphasizing relative Christian antiquity is based HEAVILY on tourism directed to the west as Cappadocia is in a not so safe region of inner Turkey which is that of a muslim country. Unlike Giza as we've once so eloquently discussed overview a lovely romantic dinner not so long ago, I HAVE actually been here and seen very few which are almost all on the outermost upper level, chistian evidence as far as ' carvings' go. Most of which were in painting form.

And by the way Spartan,....

Your response is a fine example of someone who knows little if any information or fact on the subject but insists on shedding some wisdom which is seldom more than the highlighted content that google brings up , randomly, prior to clicking on the links content.

I believe I owe you this explanation for my explanation.

Cheers

You are right, i have often observed Spartan catering to popular online refutations or opinions of other peoples to form opinions about issues instead of analysing the issue himself.

I also remember him advicing me to not cater to armchair archaeology and be more of a feild man, and i had adviced him to use his own brains and form his own opinions instead of blindly repeating other peoples opinions.

Now i would like to flatter spartan by a little imitation:

Spot the Spartan:

[Sheep Smart]

Hate to tell you, im compelled to make yet another correction. Coincidentally and only ...

because im shamefully from new jersey. Its: C'peeeeeeeesh. You gotta have Dat punch!

Please don't have me suspended again. I think you're the greatest ..this is just business don't take my anticharm personal.

♥ sheep

[Sheep Smart]

If one were to ever instantiate full proof that Christians constructed this not only will I denounce my disgraceful agnostic ways but I shall willingly recite 1, 000, 000 hail marys.

[Harsh86_Patel]

BTW- Spartan is a pesron of the book, but not exactly a Christian...he is a Indian Muslim staying in UAE if i am not mistaken,That is the reason he dislike my post where i talk of ancient hindus and calls me a nationalist.

[+DieChecker]

I do think that the early Christians did take inspiration from these larger underground cities and did build other much smaller underground settlements of their own to escape percecution.

A very interesting location.

How have they dated the place I wonder? Mostly by artifacts?? The pics seem to show it pretty much cleaned out now...

[Sheep Smart]

And so I ask, what book?