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Crimsonemberdawn

Difference between liberals and conservatives

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Gender identification issues, lol. I've heard it all now.

If you're confused, drop your pants and look in the mirror. Please do not argue against that while at the same time saying you believe in cold hard scientific facts because if what you see in the mirror isn't cold hard scientific fact at its most basic levels I don't know what is.

:lol: You know I don't agree with you, but that did make me laugh so I had to like it.

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Thanks Michelle. Glad I can say things like that to some people and not get into a morality debate about it.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Michelle. Glad I can say things like that to some people and not get into a morality debate about it.

You're are just being you. :tu:

Edited by Michelle
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Well thats not really fair to say. Both Reagon and Bush talked a real good game about small government. I do agree with you regarding the people who voted for them a second time. But its not like there was much choice. Thats why I personaly no longer vote for the president. Nor will I till a true conservative gets the knod. Though the bank will never let that happen.

May I suggest voteing Libertarian? :whistle:

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My friend was born a girl, throughout his entire life though he indentified himself as a boy. A few years ago he underwent sex reassignment surgery to look like how he felt i.e. a man.

Biologically, he is a girl, no-one denies that, not even him, it's incontrivertible, he has XX chromosomes, case closed. It's just that his brain, somehow, got it's wires crossed and that led to him suffering mentally. His surgery wasn't him denying what he was biologically, it was just to make him feel comfortable in his own skin. I'm sure if there was medication or a miracle cure to stop him from thinking he was a man he'd have taken it but there wasn't, so surgery was the next best option.

I actually met him after he had his surgery and it wasn't until a few weeks later that I found out he wasn't biologically a man. I was shocked, I almost didn't believe it, because as far as I was concerned, he looked like a man, walked like a man, talked like a man, acted like a man.

I'm quite happy to consider him as one of the guys, to humour him costs nothing and harms no-one.

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't matter what the differences are, only what the similarities are.

All types of politicians will lie their way into office, impose their personal issues upon the public, not do good by any of their promises, and then they will find someone else to judge for their doing the same exact thing.

---

Politics and law should never have the authority to tell the people what they can or can't do within their own homes, bodies, or minds.

Edited by xFelix
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BS, Liberals ignore science when it doesnt fit thier views all the time. Little things like the statistical odds of life creating its self are completly ignored.

Creationists like pulling statistics out of their ass as it fits in line with their belief system.
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The difference is simply that liberals want society to progress morally. They value reason, equality and want society to reflect this. Whilst conservatives want everything to stay as it is - maybe they're scared of change.

Left to their own devices, liberals would charge headlong with unfettered progress whether people were ready for it or not. Conservatives serve to put the brakes on this and slow it down. But it can't stop it.

The reality is that the average conservative today is more liberal than the average liberal was 50 years ago. So, the direction of change is inevitable.

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Posted (edited)

Left to their own devices, liberals would charge headlong with unfettered progress whether people were ready for it or not.

Unfettered, huh?

Boy, oh boy do liberals like that word lately...

Edited by tapirmusic
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Unfettered, huh?

Boy, oh boy do liberals like that word lately...

:w00t: That was hilarious....

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The difference is simply that liberals want society to progress morally. They value reason, equality and want society to reflect this. Whilst conservatives want everything to stay as it is - maybe they're scared of change.

Left to their own devices, liberals would charge headlong with unfettered progress whether people were ready for it or not. Conservatives serve to put the brakes on this and slow it down. But it can't stop it.

The reality is that the average conservative today is more liberal than the average liberal was 50 years ago. So, the direction of change is inevitable.

are you saying liberals want a more moral society??? if so what is you definition of morals? I only see the liberals destroying what little moral fiber this country has left. what you should have said was liberals want society to morally digress and do away with this out dated notion of right and wrong.

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Posted (edited)

are you saying liberals want a more moral society??? if so what is you definition of morals? I only see the liberals destroying what little moral fiber this country has left. what you should have said was liberals want society to morally digress and do away with this out dated notion of right and wrong.

That might be another way of putting it. But the issue of morality can be subjective. So, for example, someone may see that a society that allows homosexuals to marry is "destroying what little moral fiber this country has left". (Now, I'm not saying you do in this case. It's just an example). Someone else may see the same issue as society demonstrating moral progression by valuing the equality of all it's members.

Personally, I believe any society that values equality is preferable (and morally superior) to one that doesn't. Not so long ago, many people thought it was OK that black people could not sit in the same seats on a bus as white people. Nowadays, we see that as wrong. In many parts of the world, gay people can marry. This is the type of moral progression I'm referring to.

And, notions of right and wrong are not outdated. They just change (see above examples). And often for the better.

Edited by Arbenol68

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That might be another way of putting it. But the issue of morality can be subjective. So, for example, someone may see that a society that allows homosexuals to marry is "destroying what little moral fiber this country has left". (Now, I'm not saying you do in this case. It's just an example). Someone else may see the same issue as society demonstrating moral progression by valuing the equality of all it's members.

Personally, I believe any society that values equality is preferable (and morally superior) to one that doesn't. Not so long ago, many people thought it was OK that black people could not sit in the same seats on a bus as white people. Nowadays, we see that as wrong. In many parts of the world, gay people can marry. This is the type of moral progression I'm referring to.

And, notions of right and wrong are not outdated. They just change (see above examples). And often for the better.

But the problem with that progressive way of thinking is people inherently make poor decisions when left to their own devices hence the massive debt problem (personal not government) crime, drugs, and any number of societal woes. If you don't have a set moral compass to point the way you can easily get led astray by what ever group is telling you what is good for society. you see any change as good but if you don't have a solid definition of morals who are you to judge.

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But the problem with that progressive way of thinking is people inherently make poor decisions when left to their own devices hence the massive debt problem (personal not government) crime, drugs, and any number of societal woes. If you don't have a set moral compass to point the way you can easily get led astray by what ever group is telling you what is good for society. you see any change as good but if you don't have a solid definition of morals who are you to judge.

Let me take your points one at a time:

You're right. Many people will often make poor decisions. But how is that linked to a "progressive way of thinking"? If you've interpreted my comments as meaning everybody should do as they please, then I haven't explained myself well. It doesn't mean a free-for-all. And when did any liberal ever advocate for increased crime, drug use, personal debt or all the other societal woes that you refer to? That's something of a strawman argument.

By the way, do you think that the more liberal a society, the more of the above there is?

Liberalism seeks to produce societies that don't discriminate against, or disadvantage others - be they a different colour, religion, sexuality, gender, etc. How would this produce increases in the social problems you mention? In fact, over the past 20 years or so we have seen changes in western societies where the above groups have become more represented in our communities. That is what I meant when I stated that the direction of progress is inevitable. Over the same period of time, our nations have seen a significant reduction in crime. Do you think there is any relationship between the two?

You also seem to equate liberalism with not having a set moral compass. To an extent, you're correct. But moral compasses should never be set. If they were, we'd still be stoning prostitutes and adulterers. I can only speak for myself, but I have moral principles that are clear to me. And it is based on empathy - don't do to others what you wouldn't like done to you, treat others as you'd like to be treated, do no harm. I want to live in a society who's laws reflect these principles. So, it makes no sense to forbid homosexuals from marrying, or to make black people sit apart on buses from white people.

There's little doubt that 'western' nations have become steadily more liberal. And they're the better for it. We've still a way to go, but as a work in progress I think we should be encouraged.

I also need to take issue with one more comment of yours: "you see any change as good". I certainly did not say that.

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are you saying liberals want a more moral society??? if so what is you definition of morals? I only see the liberals destroying what little moral fiber this country has left. what you should have said was liberals want society to morally digress and do away with this out dated notion of right and wrong.

When people say liberals are destroying American morals, I've got to wonder what morals? Did they have morals in the first place?

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Liberalism seeks to produce societies that don't discriminate against, or disadvantage others - be they a different colour, religion, sexuality, gender, etc. How would this produce increases in the social problems you mention?

Really? that is what they tell you they would like to do. but in practice do they and can it work? if I have a Christian view against homosexuality the liberals discriminate against me. If I'm an African-American the liberals fall all over themselves to point this fact out (i.e. a form of discrimination) if I am a woman same thing. If I am a muslim the liberals will go to pains not to notice or give me special treatment. My point is the "Liberals" are the ones that tend to notice the differences in people there by discriminating against that group or causing a rift between two groups. you are right this does not cause any of the social problems I mentioned it creates a whole bunch of new ones.

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When people say liberals are destroying American morals, I've got to wonder what morals? Did they have morals in the first place?

again it depends on your definition of morals if as arbenol68 says morals are a flavor of the month that change then at one time they may have and at other times didn't If you don't have a solid moral standard how can you judge

you have to believe in something or you will fall for anything.

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arbenol68 says morals are a flavor of the month

Misquoting me again? You should be more honest in your discussions. Otherwise, I'm going to have to assume you realise how weak your argument is that you have to resort to being disingenuous.

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Yea, that's the basic difference between American "liberals" and American "conservatives."

The first say almost any kind of sex except with children and maybe corpses is acceptable. The latter say no sex is allowable except between husband and wife and then only in the missionary position with pajamas on.

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Did you mean you'll have to stand for something or you'll fall for everything?

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again it depends on your definition of morals if as arbenol68 says morals are a flavor of the month that change then at one time they may have and at other times didn't

You're the one making the accusation.
If you don't have a solid moral standard how can you judge
I'm not a doctor either, that doesn't mean I can't spot bad medical practices.

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increased crime, drug use, personal debt or all the other societal woes

By the way, do you think that the more liberal a society, the more of the above there is?

Take a trip to beautiful Detroit!

detroit1.jpg?0d5636

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Take a trip to beautiful Detroit!

detroit1.jpg?0d5636

Out of all the western nations, the US is arguably the most conservative. Does your photo reflect the reality of that?

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That photo represents liberalism in its fullest implementations. That's the Great Society. Remember, liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.

Their hearts, much of the time, are in the right places but the policies used to achieve such things are unsustainable or utterly regressive.

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That photo represents liberalism in its fullest implementations. That's the Great Society. Remember, liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.

Their hearts, much of the time, are in the right places but the policies used to achieve such things are unsustainable or utterly regressive.

Did this happen because it's no longer legal for a man to rape his wife; or because women got the right to vote; or because gay people can marry; or because black people got equal rights; or because we no longer get christianity rammed down our throats from birth........I could go on, but I'm sure you get my meaning.

To state that the "photo represents liberalism in its fullest implementations" is not really accurate seeing as America is just about the most conservative nation around. Most of your liberals are more right wing than our conservatives. It's telling that none of you can actually respond to any points I've raised. You've resorted to quote mining, taking out of context, obfuscating, and a photo that could have been taken just about anywhere in the world.

Everywhere has shitholes.

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