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AlasBabylon

Assad: Israelis Helping Terrorists

179 posts in this topic

not to mention the holy sites and relics were held as 'ransom' ... all the holy sites and relics of all of the faith //

it was practically gimme what we want or armageddon ....

~

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They are THERE. They possess the land. They are not going anywhere so why not try to make a deal? The subtext here is about the nation of Israel being illegitimate and as such it needing to basically disappear to set things aright. You do realize how impossible that is, right?

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Of course not...and I have acknowledged that the Palestinians got the "short end" politically with the Mandate. However this is the reality and unless they accept it and try to move forward from the stand point of the existence of a state of Jewish character in their midst, there will never be a real chance for peace. Surely you can see this? To use your analogy, southern Christians would have to see the writing on the wall (so to speak) and compromise in some way that left them free to worship as they chose but also allowed the Atheists room to do the same. This is my only point.... that total intransigence keeps this thing alive decade after bloody decade and since Israel will never just disappear, compromise and part of the pie is much better than continued war forever. And compromise will come in time. Unfortunately it only gets worse in the wake of this compromise.

I can agree with your ending here...wait....*pinches self*...okay yeah I'm still here. Perhaps my analogy softened up your position a little bit and I appreciate you being open minded enough to consider it.

While the UN doesn't have authority over Alabama just because Washington DC dropped the ball and evacuated its authority (as if there is no other legitimate government below the national or state level), Palestinians got the short end politically but there was never any debate between us on the existence of the state of Israel despite the implication often made in your rhetoric that it is being contested, it's what's happened since then that matters to me. If we say we have to erase every political wrong of the past century that exercise would never end. So I let that go. Whatever the political interests of either of the powers at play here are, I'm not really interested in any of it because Israeli and Palestinian bureaucrats haven't led by any example I could approve of following. What I can't accept is the violation of peoples' civil liberties. Zionists can have political will and self-pride so long as Palestinian liberation groups can too, but they can't talk peace and do war and maintain credibility. Generally, how they carve up the map and draw the lines is extracurricular once the principle of self-determination for all is met, but I would expect a violent reaction in some people on both sides of the issue no matter how the land is carved. If Israelis were occupied, they would respond with the ultimate force, on that point I think we agree as well based on many of your previous statements. But this isn't any reason to take their political side. I know you introduce religious reasons from there to make up your mind as a Christian Zionist, but religious interpretations don't decide my values. I don't get my principles from religious history or ethnic differences, I get them from seeing that the worst examples of human behavior through history are the violent control of populations, and the solution to that behavior is to set them all free to practice their beliefs and live their lives in peace. That should be good enough for true Semites and European/American transplants alike.

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They are THERE. They possess the land. They are not going anywhere so why not try to make a deal? The subtext here is about the nation of Israel being illegitimate and as such it needing to basically disappear to set things aright. You do realize how impossible that is, right?

Throw your copies of Myths And Facts into the trashcan that book is published by AIPAC btw. So yes, it is trash. Truly educate yourself, pick up a copy of The Passionate Attachment: America's Involvement With Israel, 1947 To The Present by George W Ball and Douglas B Ball. Try a local library. I quoted portions from it in my last posting in this thread. The powers that be want the "wool pulled over the American public's eyes" concerning Israel and its relationship with America.

It is an eye-opening analysis on American interests in the Middle East. One of the best books I have ever read on the subject. And this recommendation goes for all board members here.

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