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whitegandalf

The missing Sedimentary Meteorites

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post-132161-0-77317300-1369043861_thumb.

Why has we found none so far?

Why are the relevant tests off limit to general public?

What are the official scientist gameplan to find these important meteorites?

https://www.facebook.com/TheMissingSedimentaryMeteorites

http://www.europlanet-eu.org/media-centre/30-epsc/epsc-2008/123-epsc08-03-stone-6-artificial-meteorite-shows-martian-impactors-could-carry-traces-of-life

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post-132161-0-42021300-1369045847_thumb.

Dr Westall said, “The STONE-6 experiment shows that sedimentary martian meteorites could reach Earth. The fact that we haven’t found any to date could mean that we need to change the way we hunt for meteorites. Most meteorites have been found in Antarctica, where their black fusion crust shows up clearly against the white snow. In this experiment we found that the sedimentary rocks developed a white crust or none at all. That means that we need to expand our search to white or light-coloured rocks.”

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I'm not sure what you're on about, if they haven't been found how can you perform tests on them?

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thanks for the links:) more information about the subject are wanted.

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thanks for the links:) more information about the subject are wanted.

Real and factual information, that is.

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thanks for the links:) more information about the subject are wanted.

The results of the STONE-6 mission were presented on Sept 25th at the European Planetary Science Conference in Münster, Germany.

LINK

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Perhaps sedimentary rocks are just to fragile to survive being ejected into space. And if Mars (I'm assuming we're talking about Mars) is anything like Earth, then the percentage of sedimentary rock is very low (only 8% on Earth), so there is a 92% chance the ejected rock would be another type... Just a thought

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps sedimentary rocks are just to fragile to survive being ejected into space. And if Mars (I'm assuming we're talking about Mars) is anything like Earth, then the percentage of sedimentary rock is very low (only 8% on Earth), so there is a 92% chance the ejected rock would be another type... Just a thought

Im talking about the all the sedimentary meteorites, Mars ,Venus, Mercury, Earth-Origin and some watery moons..

Some must fall down from time too time.. The eject speed isnt that high, not higher than the descent. They should handle it just fine.

We have found over 50 other type of meteorites from mars that did handle the ejection and descent, why has we so far not discovered a single earth-origin meteorite of any type? (blasted out in space millions year ago) They should be larger in number than the martian ones.

Edited by whitegandalf

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Posted (edited)

Im talking about the all the sedimentary meteorites, Mars ,Venus, Mercury, Earth-Origin and some watery moons..

Some must fall down from time too time.. The eject speed isnt that high, not higher than the descent. They should handle it just fine.

We have found over 50 other type of meteorites from mars that did handle the ejection and descent, why has we so far not discovered a single earth-origin meteorite of any type? (blasted out in space millions year ago) They should be larger in number than the martian ones.

It's hard enough to find non-metallic meteorites except under specific conditions. Lose the fusion crust through weathering and they're almost indistinguishable from ordinary terrestrial rocks. Add to that the fact that mars has only 38% the gravity of Earth, so terrestrial rocks require more energy to achieve escape velocity, consequently reaching lower trajectories and thus making them more susceptible to recapture and early planetfall, giving them that much longer to to be degraded by erosion. That's assuming they even made orbit.The nearest thing we have to earth meteorites are in the form of tektites and those obviously didn't make it into orbit despite their relative low mass.

Venus has nearly the same mass as Earth, mercury probably wouldn't have any sedimentary rocks and is closer to both the sun and Venus than Earth and most of the other moons are in strong enough gravitational fields to make debris escape rather unlikely. (witness the rings of the four outer gas giants)

Edited by Oniomancer
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Posted (edited)

Many good points and information:) Thank you

However i disagree slightly on some of them...

I agree that they would be extremely hard to find because they are so rare, and does not have the typical black melted crust, that most experts go after. Some have no crust at all, some have lost their unusual white, glassy++ crust too. I also think that most meteorite experts does not have updated and relevant knowledge (stone6 project) about this rare group of meteorites.

Why must these tests that can recognize possible sedimentary meteorites be off limit to the general public? What are they afraid of?

What about the moon, it managed to almost escape earth orbit, actually it did, its slowly moving away. Couldent there bee more large masses of sedimentary rock floating out in space and leaving debree behind, that earths orbit sometimes crosses, and some fall down?

Mercury was the first planet in our solar system with oceans of water and a working magnetic field and tectonic plates. This however did not last long. The scientist say it went on for about 500-600 million years. Some sedimentary rock there must exist, maybe not much.

http://www.meteorite...ted_MERCURY.HTM

Edited by whitegandalf

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Posted (edited)

Venus has nearly the same mass as Earth, mercury probably wouldn't have any sedimentary rocks and is closer to both the sun and Venus than Earth and most of the other moons are in strong enough gravitational fields to make debris escape rather unlikely. (witness the rings of the four outer gas giants)

Wrong, The stones from Mercury would have no problem in escaping the gr- fields. The speed to manage the eject on Mercury is 4,2km per (5,0 on mars and 2,4 for the moon) To have the power to rech earth it needs 6,2km per second. Most Mercury Ejectia has the speed of 10-30km per second

see link above

It is estimated that 2-5% of the ejected Mercury rock would fall down here on earth (after a long time), and about 20% of the ejectia would fall down on Venus.

Edited by whitegandalf

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Wrong, The stones from Mercury would have no problem in escaping the gr- fields. The speed to manage the eject on Mercury is 4,2km per (5,0 on mars and 2,4 for the moon) To have the power to rech earth it needs 6,2km per second. Most Mercury Ejectia has the speed of 10-30km per second

see link above

It is estimated that 2-5% of the ejected Mercury rock would fall down here on earth (after a long time), and about 20% of the ejectia would fall down on Venus.

To paraphrase the song, 2-5% from nothing leaves nothing. Mercury has no liquid water and hardly any atmosphere, hence, no sedimentary processes to speak of.

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Posted (edited)

To paraphrase the song, 2-5% from nothing leaves nothing. Mercury has no liquid water and hardly any atmosphere, hence, no sedimentary processes to speak of.

Not now, but in the past, long time ago for about 500+- million years from 3,7-4,4 billion years ago. Large chunks of ancient Mercury rock is floating around in space, sometimes for billions of years, befor earth crosses its debreepath.

They should be here for us to find

see link

http://www.meteorite...ted_MERCURY.HTM

Edited by whitegandalf

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Not now, but in the past, long time ago for about 500+- million years from 3,7-4,4 billion years ago. Large chunks of ancient Mercury rock is floating around in space, sometimes for billions of years, befor earth crosses its debreepath.

They should be here for us to find

see link

http://www.meteorite...ted_MERCURY.HTM

You're missing the key word here. You were asking about sedimentary rocks. Of the 4 candidate types mentioned in the article, all are igneous achondrites except for bencubbinite, which is a carbonaceous chondrite, which while acretionary in origin differs significantly from from terrestrial sedimentary rock. And again, Mercury is not believed to have or ever have had sedimentary rock.

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Posted (edited)

You're missing the key word here. You were asking about sedimentary rocks. Of the 4 candidate types mentioned in the article, all are igneous achondrites except for bencubbinite, which is a carbonaceous chondrite, which while acretionary in origin differs significantly from from terrestrial sedimentary rock. And again, Mercury is not believed to have or ever have had sedimentary rock.

Earth Igneous achondrite which was used, and earth sedimentary rock are one and the same (same category). 80% of earths upper crust consist of a wide range in different sedimentary rocks. (8% of total mass of upper and lower crust)

It is widely acepted that mercury, venus and Mars has had wet periods like earth is now.

What about the earth-origin sedimentary meteorites, shouldent they exist?

Edited by whitegandalf

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Earth Igneous achondrite which was used, and earth sedimentary rock are one and the same (same category). 80% of earths upper crust consist of a wide range in different sedimentary rocks. (8% of total mass of upper and lower crust)

From wiki:

Angrites are basaltic rocks, often having porosity, with vesicle diameters of up to 2.5 centimetres (0.98 in).

They are the oldest igneous rocks, with crystallization ages of around 4.55 billion years.

--

Aubrites are a group of meteorites named for Aubres, a small achondrite meteorite that fell near Nyons, France, in 1836. They are primarily composed of the orthopyroxene enstatite, and are often called enstatite achondrites. Their igneous origin separates them from primitive enstatite achondrites and means they originated in an asteroid.

No decent wiki page for Lunaite but it comes in at least two types, one an impact melt breccia, the other basalt lava:

http://www.newark.osu.edu/facultystaff/personal/jstjohn/Documents/Rocks-from-Outer-Space/Lunaites.htm

It is widely acepted that mercury, venus and Mars has had wet periods like earth is now.

What about the earth-origin sedimentary meteorites, shouldent they exist?

I believe it's more widely accepted that Mercury at least is more or less a solid ball of cooled magma, and the jury is still out on how much sedimentary rock Venus _might_ have.

They're possible with Venus and Earth but likely rare for the reasons cited previously. Energy and point of impact factored together with size and angle of the ejecta effect how much goes, how high and for how long. You yourself cited an incredibly small fraction of such non-terrestrial planetary meteors even reaching Earth. Figure into that the number of meteors out of those from all sources that actually make it to the surface.

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Posted (edited)

From wiki:

Angrites are basaltic rocks, often having porosity, with vesicle diameters of up to 2.5 centimetres (0.98 in).

They are the oldest igneous rocks, with crystallization ages of around 4.55 billion years.

--

Aubrites are a group of meteorites named for Aubres, a small achondrite meteorite that fell near Nyons, France, in 1836. They are primarily composed of the orthopyroxene enstatite, and are often called enstatite achondrites. Their igneous origin separates them from primitive enstatite achondrites and means they originated in an asteroid.

No decent wiki page for Lunaite but it comes in at least two types, one an impact melt breccia, the other basalt lava:

http://www.newark.os...ce/Lunaites.htm

I believe it's more widely accepted that Mercury at least is more or less a solid ball of cooled magma, and the jury is still out on how much sedimentary rock Venus _might_ have.

They're possible with Venus and Earth but likely rare for the reasons cited previously. Energy and point of impact factored together with size and angle of the ejecta effect how much goes, how high and for how long. You yourself cited an incredibly small fraction of such non-terrestrial planetary meteors even reaching Earth. Figure into that the number of meteors out of those from all sources that actually make it to the surface.

Dr Frances Westall, Lead Scientist in the Stone-6 Project (Director of Research Centre de Biophysique Moléculaire Orléans France, former senior researcher at the NASA Johnson Space Center and the Lunar and Planetary Institute Houston USA)

“The STONE-6 experiment shows that SEDIMENTARY martian meteorites could reach Earth. The fact that we haven’t found any to date could mean that we need to CHANGE the way we hunt for meteorites. Most meteorites have been found in Antarctica, where their black fusion crust shows up clearly against the white snow.

In this experiment we found that the SEDIMENTARY rocks developed a white crust or none at all. That means that we need to expand our search to white or light-coloured rocks.”

http://www.europlane...-traces-of-life

André Brack, lead scientist of the Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire in Orleans France, former president of the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life (1996-1999) and is president of the European Exo/Astrobiology Network since 2001 and part of ESA Stone-6 project.

"The dolomite did not acquire a fusion crust. Instead, the surface exposed to the heat of re-entry burned off. This could point to one reason why we have not yet found a SEDIMENTARY martian meteorite – it lacks that tell-tale black fusion crust that meteorite hunters look for."

“It will be difficult to recognize them,” says Brack. “There is no obvious sign or feature that they are meteorites."

http://www.astrobio....=detail&id=2567

We should at least have plenty of those from earth itself. 60% of all material ejected out will fall down again eventually (after millions of years). 50-70%+- of the ejectia is of sedimentary type. From Mars and Venus about 20 % of the ejectia will end up on earth. It is proven that they have enough speed, enough toughness to handle the journey (millions of years) and the descent. If we have 50 non sedimentary martian ones, we should have at least 150+ earth origin ones? We have not a single one, of any type, not even a basaltic one.

And why is it so important to keep the relevant tests for them OFF LIMIT to the general public?

And dont you think it time for a CHANGE in the way we hunt and recognise meteorites?

Edited by whitegandalf

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WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TOO HIDE?

Me and many others just want the TRUTH, and acess to the relevant tests, otherwise i wouldent bother writing.

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And why is it so important to keep the relevant tests for them OFF LIMIT to the general public?

which tests?

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WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TOO HIDE?

Me and many others just want the TRUTH, and acess to the relevant tests, otherwise i wouldent bother writing.

let me forward that to the relevant agency... :rolleyes:

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which tests?

The only test that can recognize all types of sedimentary meteorites by 100% certainly is the "radioactive crystal age test".

It shows how long it has been here on earth, how long it has been in space and how long time ago it was ejected.

There are a couple of other tests too, also OFF LIMIT to the general public, that can recognise some of the missing sedimentary meteorites..

https://www.facebook.com/TheMissingSedimentaryMeteorites

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The only test that can recognize all types of sedimentary meteorites by 100% certainly is the "radioactive crystal age test".

i couldn't find anything on that, do you mean... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating ?

There are a couple of other tests too, also OFF LIMIT to the general public, that can recognise some of the missing sedimentary meteorites..

on which samples are these tests supposed to be conducted? i thought we were yet to find one... or, are you suggesting that the scientists are deliberately hiding info re such available samples?

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Posted (edited)

i couldn't find anything on that, do you mean... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating ?

on which samples are these tests supposed to be conducted? i thought we were yet to find one... or, are you suggesting that the scientists are deliberately hiding info re such available samples?

Yes

All other tests are crap tests as they cannot recognise most sedimentary meteorites

The site has many independent potensial sedimentary meteorites from all over the world, that are denied testing.

I dont want to speculate on the reasons why they have made this test forbidden from the general public for over 80 years now, and still refuse any acess..

All your answers will be at the site. I recomend everyone to read it.

Gandalf will be off on an another adventure and not available for a while.

https://www.facebook.com/TheMissingSedimentaryMeteorites

Edited by whitegandalf

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Yes

All other tests are crap tests as they cannot recognise most sedimentary meteorites

The site has many independent potensial sedimentary meteorites from all over the world, that are denied testing.

I dont want to speculate on the reasons why they have made this test forbidden from the general public for over 80 years now, and still refuse any acess..

All your answers will be at the site. I recomend everyone to read it.

Gandalf will be off on an another adventure and not available for a while.

https://www.facebook...ntaryMeteorites

again, what is being censored? which samples? by whom? who is making the claim? pls provide the actual reference to back your claim, thanks

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