Can doing Sorcery get you haunted ?

[rashore]

Can doing sorcery get you haunted? I'm going to have to say no. While doing sorcery might be associated with demons, demons don't haunt, ghosts do. Sorcery isn't very often associated with ghosts, that's usually the realm of necromancy.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

Hello there,

When you say that there are things going on to some people that science cannot explain, are you suggesting that such people need not take help from science? (I'm sure you're not) Have you known a case where a doctor or psychiatrist or whatever said "I can't help you" or "I don't understand your problem at all". How can you tell if or not someone needs to see the doctor? What is to say that the person you think has "problems that science cannot explain" did go to a doctor first?

Just off topic, but "Thought the earth was flat", "Thought coelacanth was extinct but it is back", it is just not the same for me as ghosts and evil spirits, for me, at least.

I'm sorry but have your personally verified that every scientist and every doctor in this world is not a skeptic? or do you think a skeptic is a different breed/species of people altogether. So, a scientist or a doctor cannot also be a skeptic, If I understand correctly.

Skeptics do not follow the golden rules that science sets forward. According to science, if something cannot be proven or disproven it is what's that pesky word... INCONSLUSIVE. Skeptics coming to the CONCLUSION that something is fake because nobody has proven it's existence is... Not scientific!

So yes, I am saying that you cannot be a skeptic and a scientist, because a scientist does not declare that which he cannot explain as fake.

1) You are lying by saying I ever said that.

Now, if you want to get into individual " paranormal " topics, I will ablidge.

2)Also, show me where I bashed anyone here.

3)And do me a favor....Do not bring up someone that lies, that may not be a good idea.

4)Now, " science " has a ton of answers to a ton of what people claim as evidence in hauntings, possesions, etc,etc,etc.....And, the answers are facts.

They are posted all over this site, and ignored by many, and buried by childish arguments.

Back on topic?

I have asked the same thing, only I asked for people to " put up or shut up."

I am going to get hated for this, but I have to......

The answer to your question is no.

First of all, even if people claim to know how to do this, they will not do it to show it is true. ***2)Even if they say they will, they back out for a number of excuses.There are numerous people here, and hundreds on the internet that claim they can summon these things, or get rid of them. Not one has done anything except take advantage of people, and/or take money from guillible people. I think some of them may actually believe they can do what they say, but not one person has proven anything to anyone. Just words, and cold readings...Maybe some " seeding " of peoples fears also.

3)I have tried spells, Ouija boards, etc,etc,etc...I have given my address, GPS, etc,etc to people that said they would be summoning things to me. I have openly stated numerous times, invited if you will, Demons and such to show themselves to me, to take over my body, to show me they are not all pussies......

1)Either I am one Demon hunter bad ass, or they are not real.....

The truth, they are real, if you " believe ".......I do not " believe " so I, and many others are safe.

If that does not make sense, I will make it easy.....It is all in ones head.

Long story short, this has been a on-going thing here, and this is where I will get a couple of hater replies. I am not bumping the topic, but answering your question. There is a lot of information there, 3 years worth. Weed through the bickering....

http://www.unexplain...pic=181521&st=0

4)Most of these times, the facts they claim are some mental illness in someone unrelated to who they're referring to, and doctors have warned against diagnosis from untrained professionals but hell.. Have at it.

NOTE about #3, You say you've tried all those things and haven't experienced anything.. Well where is your proof? You seem so bent on other people proving what they believe, but you have never once proven what you believe.. All we have is your word, but when other people make statements based solely on their word... Its time to mock right? (In that last post you even accused some of being scammers)

Still waiting for proof...

Edited May 29, 2013 by xFelix

[Etu Malku]

So I was reading about Sorcery and it sounds interesting.

It says it's black magick where the sorcerer calls up an evil demon.

Then the demon makes a pact with him to grand super natural powers or money etc.

Sorcery is the art of empowering the Self, inspiration through imagination. It is the Willed control of energy.

Black Magick is the art of uncovering hidden wisdom within, aimed at transformation of Self and environment.

Demonolatry is the art of working with Demons.

If you do sorcery do you think it will get you haunted?

You can't become haunted by anything material, but you can dement your mind into believing you are haunted by something.

and have any of you tried it?

I have been a Ritualist for over 20 years . . . summoned many a Demon.

[Sakari]

I have been a Ritualist for over 20 years . . . summoned many a Demon.

Would you be willing to share your wisdom in detail?

" many a Demon "......

Just the person I am looking for, maybe.

[Sakari]

Skeptics do not follow the golden rules that science sets forward. According to science, if something cannot be proven or disproven it is what's that pesky word... INCONSLUSIVE. Skeptics coming to the CONCLUSION that something is fake because nobody has proven it's existence is... Not scientific!

So yes, I am saying that you cannot be a skeptic and a scientist, because a scientist does not declare that which he cannot explain as fake.

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NOTE about #3, You say you've tried all those things and haven't experienced anything.. Well where is your proof? You seem so bent on other people proving what they believe, but you have never once proven what you believe.. All we have is your word, but when other people make statements based solely on their word... Its time to mock right? (In that last post you even accused some of being scammers)

Still waiting for proof...

You asked.....( you might want to keep this in the correct topic though )

Where is my proof?

I am not, nor have not become possessed, seen, smelled, felt, witnessed anything strange or from the normal. My wife has not either. My life has not changed, actually, have had a few good things happen, considering, in the last 3 years.

Where is my proof?

I have had 4 people ( might be more ) say they would summon spirits / demons to me. One needed my GPS, I openly put that in the public forum for them.....Nothing

Another actually threatened death on a loved one.......Nothing

Another ( you know that story )

I have officially had 4 people at the least threaten to summon things to me. Either excuses, or lack of talent end up to be the answers. I have no control of people publicly stating they can do this, and not following through.......That is some of my " proof ".....

Anyway, take it to the other topic if you want to discuss it. I get accused of bringing it up, yet people keep bringing it up on other topics because they are so upset with me. Just because I call bull****, and put my money where my mouth is.

If I post the link to that topic, it is because it is in direct response, and answers the topics question. Especially this topic.

I do the same with Bigfoot and other topics, if a thread already exists, or has some answers in it, I link it......Get over it.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Sakari

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

You asked.....( you might want to keep this in the correct topic though )

Where is my proof?

I am not, nor have not become possessed, seen, smelled, felt, witnessed anything strange or from the normal. My wife has not either. My life has not changed, actually, have had a few good things happen, considering, in the last 3 years.

Where is my proof?

I have had 4 people ( might be more ) say they would summon spirits / demons to me. One needed my GPS, I openly put that in the public forum for them.....Nothing

Another actually threatened death on a loved one.......Nothing

Another ( you know that story )

I have officially had 4 people at the least threaten to summon things to me. Either excuses, or lack of talent end up to be the answers. I have no control of people publicly stating they can do this, and not following through.......That is some of my " proof ".....

Anyway, take it to the other topic if you want to discuss it. I get accused of bringing it up, yet people keep bringing it up on other topics because they are so upset with me. Just because I call bull****, and put my money where my mouth is.

If I post the link to that topic, it is because it is in direct response, and answers the topics question. Especially this topic.

I do the same with Bigfoot and other topics, if a thread already exists, or has some answers in it, I link it......Get over it.

Here you are everyone, Sakari's personal experiences are his "facts" and "proof" that the paranormal does not exist.

His sole reason as to condescend onto others is because they have not shared in the same experiences, and his experiences must be the correct ones... The hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of other people's experiences worldwide.. Yea they're definitely all suffering from mental illness.

Are we done with telling other people the paranormal does or doesn't exist in a condescending manner? I can bet my last penny that we're not.

Here is a real fact:

Now experts say they have shown that the theoretical phenomenon, whose gravitational pull is thought to hold galaxies together, exist "beyond any reasonable doubt".

The team of scientists spent 16 years studying the existence of a super massive black hole thought to be at the centre of our galaxy, the Milky Way.

While the black hole itself is invisible to the eye, the team proved its existence by tracking the motions of 28 stars circling around it.

Courtesy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3690822/Proof-that-Albert-Einsteins-black-holes-do-exist-claim-scientists.html

Einstein knew of something that could not be readily verified as true, and was mocked for it... Now we accept many of his theories as realities.

There was always a lot of skepticism surrounding Einstein’s works. The problem many people had was not with his math, but with the way he thought physics and math should be looked at. He had ideas that said that experiments were not always needed to form scientific ideas.

Courtesy: http://sps.k12.mo.us/phs/jpetersen/projects/mathematicians/einstein.htm

There is your fact, but what does the fact say? Fact: Just because someone seems to disagree with you, does not mean you are right. (You also don't have to go around calling people scammers, that's just really unwarranted.)

Bye!

[Sakari]

Here you are everyone, Sakari's personal experiences are his "facts" and "proof" that the paranormal does not exist.

His sole reason as to condescend onto others is because they have not shared in the same experiences, and his experiences must be the correct ones... The hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of other people's experiences worldwide.. Yea they're definitely all suffering from mental illness.

Are we done with telling other people the paranormal does or doesn't exist in a condescending manner? I can bet my last penny that we're not.

212.....

Again, I never said " paranormal does not exist "....

Yes, when people tell me they can summon demons, and say they summoned them to me, and nothing happens, that is proof. When people say they can summon things ( but oddly enough, only them, and by themselves with no witnesses ), and tell me how, and I try them ( and others try them also ), and they do not work as guaranteed, that is proof.

If I tell you adding 2% milk, a gallon a fill up, to your gas tank will save you 20 MPG in fuel, and you, and others try this and it does not work, what would be your conclusion?

I am not condescending anyone, you and others love to drag this into other threads, because you are so upset that your claims and belief ( belief stated as fact, or I would not care ) are being questioned, and proven to be very questionable.

As I said, take this to the thread it should be on. I will reply to anyone doing this. You can keep trying, but it really only shows how defensive people like this can get.

No evidence, no proof, no back up, and no keeping of their words......Just excuses, and de-railments, and lies.

Top signs of liars :

Overly defensive. Sometimes when a person is lying they will become extremely defensive, refusing to answer any questions and even accusing you of lying. This may mean they have something to hide.

MOB

GKB

BHB

SMM

GMP

TPP

Edited May 29, 2013 by Sakari

[Pauly Dangerously]

If I tell you adding 2% milk, a gallon a fill up, to your gas tank will save you 20 MPG in fuel, and you, and others try this and it does not work, what would be your conclusion?

If it didn't work, it is because you didn't believe it would work hard enough. You were skeptical of the milk theory, and therefore, did not work for you.

[Bendy Demon]

If it didn't work, it is because you didn't believe it would work hard enough. You were skeptical of the milk theory, and therefore, did not work for you.

Are..are you serious?

Sorry but that is totally messed up. But I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Ryu

[Pauly Dangerously]

It has already been proven what does and doesn't work in that field. What hasn't been proven is how thousands upon thousands of people can report seeing those who are deceased, nor has it been suggested by the scientific community that there is a mass mental illness pandemic, considering the millions who say they've had experiences that science can't explain. Science hasn't disproven anything of this topic and it'll take an awful lot for it to do so because it isn't advanced enough to understand what is actually going on.

I see how it works on the forum now. If a skeptic has had an experience, or lackthereof, then this considered proof. If a believer has had an experience, it is considered a mental illness, misinterpretation or attention seek. I wish I had been informed of this sooner.

That's not quite how it works. Proof, or rather a proof, is the result of trial and error. If someone posits a theory, that theory is tested, and the result is negative then we consider the original theory false until such a time as it is proven true. Nothing more, nothing less. That's how it works for all science. That is also how science corrects itself.

An experience is a wholly subjective episode, based solely on the observation of whomever witnesses the event. Understanding of an unexplained experience can only be gained through one of two methods. Faith or fact. Faith too, is subjective. Facts are merely an agreed upon explanation until such a time as it is disproved or improved, yes?

Settle down. We're all on the same team here.

[Sakari]

It has already been proven what does and doesn't work in that field. What hasn't been proven is how thousands upon thousands of people can report seeing those who are deceased, nor has it been suggested by the scientific community that there is a mass mental illness pandemic, considering the millions who say they've had experiences that science can't explain. Science hasn't disproven anything of this topic and it'll take an awful lot for it to do so because it isn't advanced enough to understand what is actually going on.

I see how it works on the forum now. If a skeptic has had an experience, or lackthereof, then this considered proof. If a believer has had an experience, it is considered a mental illness, misinterpretation or attention seek. I wish I had been informed of this sooner.

Dude,

This is a open discussion forum. Get used to it, or go somewhere else. Every topic you keep getting all bent out of shape because not everyone " believes".

You are wayyyyy to sensitive man. Someone mentions going out to BBQ to you and you take it fricken personal, now that is out there man......Really out there.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

212.....

Again, I never said " paranormal does not exist "....

Yes, when people tell me they can summon demons, and say they summoned them to me, and nothing happens, that is proof. When people say they can summon things ( but oddly enough, only them, and by themselves with no witnesses ), and tell me how, and I try them ( and others try them also ), and they do not work as guaranteed, that is proof.

If I tell you adding 2% milk, a gallon a fill up, to your gas tank will save you 20 MPG in fuel, and you, and others try this and it does not work, what would be your conclusion?

I am not condescending anyone, you and others love to drag this into other threads, because you are so upset that your claims and belief ( belief stated as fact, or I would not care ) are being questioned, and proven to be very questionable.

As I said, take this to the thread it should be on. I will reply to anyone doing this. You can keep trying, but it really only shows how defensive people like this can get.

No evidence, no proof, no back up, and no keeping of their words......Just excuses, and de-railments, and lies.

Top signs of liars :

Overly defensive. Sometimes when a person is lying they will become extremely defensive, refusing to answer any questions and even accusing you of lying. This may mean they have something to hide.

Dude we already went over this, you DID say that you're either a demon hunting bad ass or they "are not real".

I don't know wtf is wrong with your mind if you cant even see that you did say that.

You did condescend, as you always do Sakari. In fact you even implied people who believe in the paranormal are scammers.

If you tell me to do anything and it doesn't work, I would believe I did something wrong... But you keep saying you've done all these things, you still have not shown yourself doing a single one.

I am not condescending anyone, you and others love to drag this into other threads, because you are so upset that your claims and belief ( belief stated as fact, or I would not care ) are being questioned, and proven to be very questionable.

You also state your belief in a factual way. Prove your belief to be fact... That's what I've been saying this entire time, and you've been avoiding and bsing the entire time...

No evidence, no proof, no back up, and no keeping of their words......Just excuses, and de-railments, and lies.

Top signs of liars :

Overly defensive. Sometimes when a person is lying they will become extremely defensive, refusing to answer any questions and even accusing you of lying. This may mean they have something to hide.

MOB

GKB

BHB

SMM

GMP

TPP

Same applies to you Mr.Lester...

No evidence, no proof, no back up, and no having a word to keep at all. Just pretending to be scientific but refusing to show any scientific process of anything at all. Then to top it off you run around without any "proof" telling people that there problems are not real and accusing others of being scammers...

Oh and I really like that gang quote, I see what you did Mr.Lester. You seem to have trolled yourself cause I told you to show your proof and you got defensive and called me a liar while then saying

Overly defensive. Sometimes when a person is lying they will become extremely defensive, refusing to answer any questions and even accusing you of lying. This may mean they have something to hide.

In a post of which all you provide is a theory with milk???

Oh and then you target my gang related past aww you're not defensive at all.

Edited May 29, 2013 by xFelix

[Sakari]

>>>>snip>>>>

Oh and then you target my gang related past aww you're not defensive at all.

I did not target anything, I replied to you. I was curious, and got a answer on something though.

Now, you have the balls to say all of this when you :

Well the friends are from certain religious circles that would like to extend onto you what they call a tiny taste of the dark side. In which they would use only ghosts. You would technically have nothing to do in the matter other than supplying your name and picture and just wait for the madness As far as time frame, the standard is 21 days, and things can start to happen as soon as midnight the day of and can become overwhelming as soon as midnight on day 7.

I will post here to let you know when the 21 days starts.

The challenge stands and the 21 days starts tonight. I am going into the matter fully prepared to be "debunked", but why? Because everyone with half a brain knows that the only evidence that can be captured is that of personal encounters and all the scientific babble has not once produced a single tool that can actually record or analyze higher dimensions.

In essence, I am not in it to scientifically prove that which cannot be proven... I just want someone who continues to disrespect others beliefs to have an encounter of his own, even a minor one, so that he too can understand where others are coming from.

Then, after the fact you come in and take your ball and go home.( after a post from Heaven is a halfpipe made you upset )....You do not answer PM's, yet you do this in other topics.( come in and hassle me, and derail the thread )......

You made claims, you offered. You asked for specifics from me, you got them. You said you had " it done " and 2 days later claim you stopped it......Dude, that right there shows how much you can be trusted, or believed.

You want the last word, I can smell that, go ahead.....Start keeping this in that topic, stop derailing threads with questions that are already answered.

I might report this activity myself, because every accusation and lie you have, is answered in that thread, and you know that. You want the last word, and you are afraid people just might not believe you because of what I say, or said.....Pathetic.

Edit to add :

For getting out of crime, and the place you were in, congratulations. I know how hard that is, and I have a ton of respect for that. I did want you to know that.

.....

Edited May 29, 2013 by Sakari

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

I might report this activity myself, because every accusation and lie you have, is answered in that thread, and you know that. You want the last word, and you are afraid people just might not believe you because of what I say, or said.....Pathetic.

First, all I want is for you to not go around saying that the paranormal is not real and being condescending to those who believe it is. You even took it to a whole new level when you started making accusations of believers being scammers. Given you do have the right to think it is not real, just as I have the right to think it is.. The difference between us is that I do not go around every thread I possibly can condescending onto people who have a different opinion than my own. I also don't go around making accusations as to others being scammers or anything of the sort. We would not have a single problem if you presented your belief in a respectful manner, just as many others do. But you don't seem to understand the concept of peacefully agreeing to disagree, you absolutely must put down people with a belief other than your own. You also keep bringing up that you have "facts" or "proof" but you don't, just as I don't! There is no way to prove or disprove any of this with our current technology, so there is no reason to mislead people into thinking we can. In my posts and my signature I always make myself clear and say that this is my opinion where you keep saying you have "proof". Your only proof is that of personal experience, and to counter your personal experience there are millions of other experiences which say otherwise.

Once more, all I want is for you to stop being condescending while telling people you have a different belief.

Btw: This is all related to the topic, because the topic asks a question about a spiritual belief. Your skeptic point-of-view is actually the one that is derailing here. If someone asks about Airplane mechanics and a Car mechanic comes along and starts debating about Airplane parts who is the derailer?

[little_dreamer]

Looks like Sakari is trying to use the "scientific method"! Watch out!

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/scientific-method.htm

[Etu Malku]

Is everyone done ?

Now . . . where were we?

Oh yeah, Demons

[Blink4567]

Cmon people We all have different opinions on this matter , lets understand why instead of bashing on one another ! That goes for everyone

[Sakari]

First, all I want is for you to not go around saying that the paranormal is not real and being condescending to those who believe it is. You even took it to a whole new level when you started making accusations of believers being scammers. Given you do have the right to think it is not real, just as I have the right to think it is.. The difference between us is that I do not go around every thread I possibly can condescending onto people who have a different opinion than my own. I also don't go around making accusations as to others being scammers or anything of the sort. We would not have a single problem if you presented your belief in a respectful manner, just as many others do. But you don't seem to understand the concept of peacefully agreeing to disagree, you absolutely must put down people with a belief other than your own. You also keep bringing up that you have "facts" or "proof" but you don't, just as I don't! There is no way to prove or disprove any of this with our current technology, so there is no reason to mislead people into thinking we can. In my posts and my signature I always make myself clear and say that this is my opinion where you keep saying you have "proof". Your only proof is that of personal experience, and to counter your personal experience there are millions of other experiences which say otherwise.

Once more, all I want is for you to stop being condescending while telling people you have a different belief.

Btw: This is all related to the topic, because the topic asks a question about a spiritual belief. Your skeptic point-of-view is actually the one that is derailing here. If someone asks about Airplane mechanics and a Car mechanic comes along and starts debating about Airplane parts who is the derailer?

Felix,

Lets get back on topic and save this for either PM's, or on that other topic. I can keep asking you to quote me being condescending, and I can keep explaining in detail the vague things you are saying, and put them in black and white. Thus painting the picture that I am not doing what you claim using generalized terms..

It is ridiculous.

Because myself and many others do not share in some belief's, we get attacked for replying asking questions, and stating facts.....Not cool.

I am straight to the point, I do not sugar coat things. I ask and answer in black and white. If that offends people, that is their problem, not mine.

Anyway, it is nothing personal on my side, I discuss the topics and the replies, not the person in general.

So, can we keep this kind of crap to PM's, hash it out there?

I will be around, and replying the same way I always have, so this needs to stop some where...

You can put me on ignore if my replies upset you so much also.

Anyway, back on topic....

No, sorcery can not get you Haunted. ( depending on your description of Haunted )

[Pauly Dangerously]

Are..are you serious?

Sorry but that is totally messed up. But I mean this in the nicest way possible.

No, not serious. Applying an oft used argument for mysticism to a non-mystical hypothetical.

[J. K.]

Sakari, I apologize if you have answered this question before. I will admit that I've not read every post in this one. The question occurred to me: do you accept the existence of demons/spirits/ghosts in the first place? That would certainly have a bearing on your original question.

Edited May 30, 2013 by J. K.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

So I was reading about Sorcery and it sounds interesting.

It says it's black magick where the sorcerer calls up an evil demon.

Then the demon makes a pact with him to grand super natural powers or money etc.

If you do sorcery do you think it will get you haunted?

and have any of you tried it?

I am curious to know more about this topic

My Question is what kind of pact woud you make with a demon that you conjure up, Im assuming the demons not gonna wanna get screwed in the aggreement, I was raised u believing demons are REAL and you should never mess with anything demonistic or even related to black magic, But thats what I was brought up to believe. Maybe others are right in the fact that you have to truly believe in them for them to have any interest in you, kind of like a tulpa type of thing. Eh I dont know

Edited May 30, 2013 by R4z3rsPar4d0x

[Sakari]

Sakari, I apologize if you have answered this question before. I will admit that I've not read every post in this one. The question occurred to me: do you accept the existence of demons/spirits/ghosts in the first place? That would certainly have a bearing on your original question.

No need to apologize, and yes, I have answered in detail.

Short version.

I used to.

I used to " believe " in a lot of things, and I also have had experiences, one I still can not explain. They are posted in a topic " sightings from skeptics".. http://www.unexplain...pic=203763&st=0

I am glad you asked. Many people get frustrated and say " well, until you experience it you will never believe".......I have, and so have many others.

This place is a big part in helping me educate myself on many topics I was interested in, including Demons. I am now 47, and have spent around the last 24 years reading, searching, first hand learning, investigating, etc. things such as this. I was a firm believer in Bigfoot, Crop Circles made by Aliens, Alien abduction, God, Ghosts, and Demons.

When I started going " out of the box" with my research ( by research, reading, talking to experts, etc.) and not just reading paranormal books, sites, and stories / claims, and started reading Psychology journals, research, etc. And, electrician books, etc, Biology, etc, etc,etc.....You get my point. I began realizing that " belief " ( blind faith ) in things just from claims and stories have no evidence at all to back them up. I also found reasons for these claims, many of them, that are explained by normal ( sometimes not normal ) every day life things. A lot I would have never known about if I had not taken the time to look, and had a open mind.

My mind was closed for a long time, when I opened it up, and broke through that barrier of " faith " from wanting to believe so bad, it actually became very interesting. It opened a door for me.

Now, my interest is on the psychological side of " why do people believe" when it comes to things like this. I want to understand why some take it so far that when anyone disagrees with them, they take it personal, and go into attack mode. That is some strong faith, and is one reason so many wars are started over religion. ( will not go there ).

So, yes, I did believe at one point, for half of my life I guess you could say.

And yes, you have to " believe " to understand......So, I do understand. It is all in ones mind.Not saying anyone is crazy, just saying that is where it is, in the mind, not in our physical world.

Why, for example, is belief in invisible, supernatural agents - such as ghosts, angels, dead ancestors, and gods - so widespread? Belief in such supernatural agents appears to be a near universal feature of human societies. There is some evidence that a predisposition towards beliefs of this kind may actually be innate - part of our natural, evolutionary heritage. The Oxford psychologist Justin Barrett has suggested that the prevalence of beliefs of this kind may in part be explained by our possessing a Hyper-sensitive Agent Detection Device, or H.A.D.D.

Human beings explain features of the world around them in two very different ways. For example, we sometimes appeal to natural causes or laws in order to account for an event. Why did that apple fall from the tree? Because the wind blew and shook the branch, causing the apple to fall. Why did the water freeze in the pipes last night, because the temperature of the water fell below zero, and it is a law that water freezes below zero.

However, we also explain by appealing to agents - beings who act on the basis of their beliefs and desires in a more or less rational way. Why did the apple fall from the tree? Because Ted wanted to eat it, believed that shaking the tree would make it fall, and so shook the tree. Why are Mary's car keys on the mantelpiece? Because she wanted to remind herself not to forget them, so put them where she thought she would spot them.

Barrett suggests we have evolved to be overly sensitive to agency. We evolved in an environment containing many agents - family members, friends, rivals, predators, prey, and so on. Spotting and understanding other agents helps us survive and reproduce. So we evolved to be sensitive to them - oversensitive in fact. Hear a rustle in the bushes behind you and you instinctively spin round, looking for an agent. Most times, there's no one there - just the wind in the leaves. But, in the environment in which we evolved, on those few occasions when there was an agent present, detecting it might well save your life. Far better to avoid several imaginary predators than be eaten by a real one. Thus evolution will select for an inheritable tendency to not just detect - but over detect - agency. We have evolved to possess (or, perhaps more plausibly, to be) hyper-active agency detectors.

if we suppose the H.A.D.D, hypothesis does correctly explain why it is that so many people believe in the existence of invisible agents, then the fact that large numbers hold such beliefs can no longer be considered good evidence that any such agents exist. It will no longer do to say, "Surely not all these people can be so very deluded? Surely there must be some truth to these beliefs, otherwise they would not be so widespread?" The fact is, if the H.A.D.D, hypothesis is correct, we're likely to believe in the existence of such invisible agents anyway, whether or not such agents exist. But then the commonality of these beliefs is not good evidence such agents exist. If the H.A.D.D hypothesis is correct, it adds yet another nail to the coffin lid of the suggestion: "Lots of people believe it so there's got to be something to it!"

Both quotes from this article: http://www.psycholog...nvisible-beings

I want to add, I do not mind people believing in whatever they want, it is when they state their belief as fact, and are not saying " I believe this is what that is "........

There is a difference.

I will stop my book now, could go on for days.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Sakari

[J. K.]

Now, my interest is on the psychological side of " why do people believe" when it comes to things like this. I want to understand why some take it so far that when anyone disagrees with them, they take it personal, and go into attack mode. That is some strong faith, and is one reason so many wars are started over religion. ( will not go there ).

"Belief" is an interesting word. It connotes to be confident of something without absolute proof. Yet I would say that I believe because I have proof (regarding religion, but as you said, that's another topic).

Edited May 30, 2013 by J. K.

[Sakari]

I thought I said don't speak to me in threads? I have zero interest talking with you about any subject. Someone's desperate for my attention, I see.

PS: Sorry to disappoint but I won't be going anywhere. Don't like it? Well thats just too damn bad. Let me know when you can disprove everything as you seem to think you can. Until then...you're perfectly entitled to your own...beliefs

I answered your reply, not you in person. When you post smart ass replies, and even good ones, I may feel inclined to reply to them. I have no issues discussing what you post. If you do with mine.....

You may want to use the ignore feature if it bothers you.

Ignore

The "ignore" tab allows you to configure your Ignore settings - you can choose to hide individual member's posts, signatures, chats, status updates, or other aspects of a member that you wish to hide.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=help&do=01&HID=20&hl=ignore

That will save you a lot of grief.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

theres belief and then theres faith which are too totally different things, for faith you just take it for what it is without much proof at all. belief is totally different