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Spock_the_Future

The repercussions of being Atheist

291 posts in this topic

Hi All,

My first post after all this time and I have only one thing to ask (Didn't ask the question to my family as I intended to as they all are deeply religious, All of them I assure you, I am the only black sheep, they get angry whenever I do and the discussion is lost, rather it's torn to smithereens) .

If we believe in us and our abilities to do good to others irrespective of getting in Heaven in end.

Why the lure of going to Heaven, Why not just be a good Human Being and help people in need ?, Isn't that what separates us from a so called way of the Animals, By the way I had seen a documentary on Animal Planet which showed a lioness taking care of a baby deer. Animals have no souls the religion says, or again are they the "lord works in mysterious" quotes, Again why for these two and not the rest? mysterious and we look for evidences first in this website ? Come on People, enlighten me here !!!

Why is a GOD required ? (My whole family believes which I say again ). Why am I the bad guy in the family for not believing ?

And it's not just my family it is the people around them who make them act this way, I've heard them (Priests and all), Why do they force the issue when I never try to convert a believer of GOD into non-believer and never argue against their faith ?

What is exactly the thinking or so called GOD fearing people ? Make me fear too ??

Sorry folks, Just venting my frustration here. Always wondered who is more stubborn ? I am not that much stubborn as the religious people, but does that make them right ?.

Spock the Future

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Eh, I avoid the topic all together. You're not the bad guy for not believing but to have your family judge you like that, says a lot more about them.

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Eh, I avoid the topic all together. You're not the bad guy for not believing but to have your family judge you like that, says a lot more about them.

Hi,

I don't ever blame them, It's the doctrines that propel them which I blame. They are good at heart and they love me and try to think of the best for me (judged by their own religious teachings of course), even if it is what they believe is best for my going to heaven.

Love and good will and persuasion at it's best eh ?. How to cure that ?

Bet they think that I will go to Hell the way I am and they try to make me amend my ways. Actually I am against what my family was preached. They were preached not to leave guys like me alone and convert them. They judge me on a perception fed to them since their childhood.

How do you fight that ?? At least I got the freedom to follow my own way to thinking (Would thanks my family for that). Many don't get that and are forced (Maybe forced, speculating here My Honor !!)

But it does say a lot about the style of preaching that goes on here for the religious people, I am happy at least it is not Kill the non-believer kind of thing.

Spock The Future

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Hi All,

My first post after all this time and I have only one thing to ask (Didn't ask the question to my family as I intended to as they all are deeply religious, All of them I assure you, I am the only black sheep, they get angry whenever I do and the discussion is lost, rather it's torn to smithereens) .

If we believe in us and our abilities to do good to others irrespective of getting in Heaven in end.

Why the lure of going to Heaven, Why not just be a good Human Being and help people in need ?, Isn't that what separates us from a so called way of the Animals, By the way I had seen a documentary on Animal Planet which showed a lioness taking care of a baby deer. Animals have no souls the religion says, or again are they the "lord works in mysterious" quotes, Again why for these two and not the rest? mysterious and we look for evidences first in this website ? Come on People, enlighten me here !!!

Why is a GOD required ? (My whole family believes which I say again ). Why am I the bad guy in the family for not believing ?

And it's not just my family it is the people around them who make them act this way, I've heard them (Priests and all), Why do they force the issue when I never try to convert a believer of GOD into non-believer and never argue against their faith ?

What is exactly the thinking or so called GOD fearing people ? Make me fear too ??

Sorry folks, Just venting my frustration here. Always wondered who is more stubborn ? I am not that much stubborn as the religious people, but does that make them right ?.

Spock the Future

I am a believer. I do not try to beat people over the head to make them come to faith because it is ridiculous to try. The sad thing about some Christians (especially) is that they want so much to share the good news of Christ's message that they alienate people. Maybe your family fears you will miss out on heaven? I absolutely believe that we go on in a conscious state after death and that our Creator will be made known to us at that time. Most religions are a bunch of man made silliness I guess but the bottom line is that if one does not care to know the Creator enough to try to study His message to us then it is difficult to imagine that person being happy when they meet Him.

As to the right to be a non-believer.... I think God ABSOLUTELY respects that decision among His created...

I'd say be gentle with your family - they do love you, even if they are being a pain :)

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I am a believer. I do not try to beat people over the head to make them come to faith because it is ridiculous to try. The sad thing about some Christians (especially) is that they want so much to share the good news of Christ's message that they alienate people. Maybe your family fears you will miss out on heaven? I absolutely believe that we go on in a conscious state after death and that our Creator will be made known to us at that time. Most religions are a bunch of man made silliness I guess but the bottom line is that if one does not care to know the Creator enough to try to study His message to us then it is difficult to imagine that person being happy when they meet Him.

As to the right to be a non-believer.... I think God ABSOLUTELY respects that decision among His created...

I'd say be gentle with your family - they do love you, even if they are being a pain :)

CREATOR ? Well I beg your permission to disagree. Last time I did had a very good and learning experience while discussing evolution, I maybe still understand a half or a quarter of it but then, you are always entitled to your beliefs, I don't agree to a CREATOR as you term it, but then it's me and I am not asking you to believe otherwise because as you term it "it is ridiculous to try" .

When you say "Most religions are a bunch of man made silliness" I Agree and I would replace Most with All. Can't we do Good without asking for Heaven ?, Kill people for 72 Virgins in heaven ?. Would we when there is a promise of none ?. I do border on stupid when it comes to paranormal other then religion and their so called miracles and I guess it makes me a whole new kind of weird person, Still the concept of GOD and HER/HIM letting out the children from the back door to play the destructive games makes me shudder.

All I know is that We play our games and blame or attribute it to someone non-existent, there is no GOD, just US with preachers trying to gain power with fear as is so with current politicians. Power and mob mentality is what makes these people gain leverage over all of us,

As for my family,I love them as much as they love me. I just don't approve of them trying me make me fear GOD because their preachers tell them that even when I am a good person, if I don't believe in GOD I'll go to Hell. I hate that.

Spock The Future

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Hi,

I don't ever blame them, It's the doctrines that propel them which I blame. They are good at heart and they love me and try to think of the best for me (judged by their own religious teachings of course), even if it is what they believe is best for my going to heaven.

Love and good will and persuasion at it's best eh ?. How to cure that ?

Bet they think that I will go to Hell the way I am and they try to make me amend my ways. Actually I am against what my family was preached. They were preached not to leave guys like me alone and convert them. They judge me on a perception fed to them since their childhood.

How do you fight that ?? At least I got the freedom to follow my own way to thinking (Would thanks my family for that). Many don't get that and are forced (Maybe forced, speculating here My Honor !!)

But it does say a lot about the style of preaching that goes on here for the religious people, I am happy at least it is not Kill the non-believer kind of thing.

Spock The Future

Think of this in evolutionary terms and as a religion being an organism. If it does not have certain characteristics to perpetuate itself it dies out. It has to reproduce-i. e, seek more adherents. It has to survive-i. e. threaten penalties for those who fall away. It has to protect itself from infections-i. e. foster an us vs. them mentality. Not all religions have gods but they all, of necessity, share these characteristics or they do not last. This is completely independent of whether they are true or not or confer any benefits.

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I am a pantheistic Pagan. I follow a Druid path. You can be a Druid and an atheist. I'm more agnostic, don't know, don't care. I see gods whether they are there or not as irrelevant. I am evolution of the Universe to reflect on itself, so I guess that makes me god. I'll be honest, Paganism is lot of fun and that is the main reason I stick with it.

I get a long much better with atheists than most people of the Abrahamic religions . They have strange idea I worship Satan, so I explain the whole thing and it seems to circle back round that I worship Satan. I have come to the point, I just admit I worship Satan, have horns and dance naked round a circle. I have done the horns and naked part but not the Satan part. Sometimes it is easier just to go a long. I have a high priestess who has never told her Catholic Mother she is a Pagan. She is actually really high up in her religion. If she was my daughter I would be extremely proud of her.

My Dad was an atheist and a moral hard working man and a WWII vet. He taught me right from wrong without a little black book or a god. What gets me mad is when people say you can't be a moral person without religion. That is just nonsense. Ethics, he taught me ethics. Ethics has been around a lot longer than the most religions. If they taught Ethics and Logic in high school it would serve kids much more than any religion.

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Forget about arguing about it with other people. Just say "I prefer not to discuss it". It's a waste of energy. It's difficult if not impossible to get most people to change their perspective.

Spend your energy thinking of ways to improve your life instead.

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Mr. Spock, your problem lies in too much loving. :D I mean, your family loves you so much, they firmly believe they will miss you in heaven because of what you declare. There is a question if they themselves will go to heaven, because merely verbally declaring someone's faith isn't getting someone into heaven.

What gets people into heaven is state of heart, humility and willingness to forgive and help other people at the cost of your time, resources, etc.

Now on other hand, doctrine of Christianity helps there a lot, because humans are trained from early years the law about cause and consequence. Like when you do something bad, you deserve punishment.This guilt that you feel effectively stops your heart from becoming humble, so you pass on unforgiveness and stubbornes in other parts of your life.

And Jesus shows in practice what are principles of humility and sacrifice.

Christianity teaches that He took the guilt and punishment for our wrongdoings, and hence made humans free from guilt.

Without getting deeper into proselytizing, what I would suggest to you, to become familiar with epistle to Romans. That is excellent passage which you can use to counter your family that true nature of person is not dependent on what they actually believe in. Second thing is to demonstrate that you are kind, humble and loving person, so that you prove that you have as they say "spirit of Christ" in your heart even without believing in Him.

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To answer your question in the OP. The only real repercussion of being an atheist is that you cut yourself off from god and his connection to you, and all the empowerment and increase in human potential being connected to a powerful entity gives a human being

An atheist can be everything a theist can be, EXCEPT empowered by god, and a physical connection to god. (unless god decides to empower them anyway)

That is (in my experience) a huge limitation on an individual's human potential and ability. But those who chose not to believe are rarely given the opportunity to experience this empowement and enhancement, and so have nothing to compare their life as an atheist with. However wonderful and great a life is as an individual being, body and mind, it is better connected to god.

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You would be a fantastic car salesman, Mr. Walker.

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My Dad was an atheist and a moral hard working man and a WWII vet. He taught me right from wrong without a little black book or a god. What gets me mad is when people say you can't be a moral person without religion. That is just nonsense. Ethics, he taught me ethics. Ethics has been around a lot longer than the most religions. If they taught Ethics and Logic in high school it would serve kids much more than any religion.

Here I Agree with you. Well I see by what you said that people don't understand your mode of worship (Your religion that is).

One of my issues is that if you had been living in a group where everyone is a Pagan would you all tolerate someone living in your midst who declares that she/he wants to be a Christian ?

Issue is religion does not tolerate deviants, it tries to exclude them either socially or brutally based on the extremism in that religion. These are the repercussions that we Atheists face as we don't believe in any religion or the concept of GOD.

And I would also say that within a group of hardliner Atheists someone claiming to love GOD will get the same treatment and I am sorry to have seen that happening, and I'll tell you why that happens, it is because these so called Atheists have tried to make a religion or a cult out of it, for them Atheism is religion and then they are not so different from all the religious people.

Where to go and where not to ? I cannot understand.

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What gets people into heaven is state of heart, humility and willingness to forgive and help other people at the cost of your time, resources, etc.

This is that is required I guess and no religious doctrines get there, they do preach it but never practice it

And I Agree when you say " because merely verbally declaring someone's faith isn't getting someone into heaven". You let someone else take the fall for the crimes that humanity did and make that a religion ? Then what is the basis for that religion ? Next time humanity does more crimes let some or other Goat take the blame for it, suffer and die and we all are washed off our sins ?

And sins, Christianity starts with Original sin, does it not ? so even a baby needs to repent when born, and who gets to decide what is sin and blasphemy ? The power hungry priests ? Clergy ? Have you ever stopped and counted the number of Child abuses done by the Clergy ? and they still maintain their posts. Is that not Sin and deserve punishment ? Why do you people let them continue ? Throw them out for your religion's sake and then tell me that your religion teaches all that you are telling me that it does. Show them cause and consequence first.

I am sorry to say Sir that I would beg to disagree as I am unable to understand it.

Spock The Future

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To answer your question in the OP. The only real repercussion of being an atheist is that you cut yourself off from god and his connection to you, and all the empowerment and increase in human potential being connected to a powerful entity gives a human being

An atheist can be everything a theist can be, EXCEPT empowered by god, and a physical connection to god. (unless god decides to empower them anyway)

That is (in my experience) a huge limitation on an individual's human potential and ability. But those who chose not to believe are rarely given the opportunity to experience this empowement and enhancement, and so have nothing to compare their life as an atheist with. However wonderful and great a life is as an individual being, body and mind, it is better connected to god.

:whistle:

You would be a fantastic car salesman, Mr. Walker.

I Agree !!!! :clap:

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Think of this in evolutionary terms and as a religion being an organism. If it does not have certain characteristics to perpetuate itself it dies out. It has to reproduce-i. e, seek more adherents. It has to survive-i. e. threaten penalties for those who fall away. It has to protect itself from infections-i. e. foster an us vs. them mentality. Not all religions have gods but they all, of necessity, share these characteristics or they do not last. This is completely independent of whether they are true or not or confer any benefits.

Well if religion was a parasite may be it does all these things you say. Your words do have some logic here. It (religion) is not a living thing by itself anyway so the people involved become the cells, limbs, heart and mind. and these are the type of people who make things difficult for people like me.

And if this is a logic which says Okay, religion is like this then why hate Hitler ?

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You would be a fantastic car salesman, Mr. Walker.

Na! I'm too honest. I'd tell people all the flaws in a car . I have been offered a job as a funeral director lol. Based on the way I relate to the deceased and the grieving, and on the quality of my eulogies for the deceased.

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:whistle:

I Agree !!!! :clap:

The physical connection to a physical god is similar to a person, deaf since birth, receiving a cochlear implant and being able to hear the world around them. It not only transforms them physically, but the result of the connection transforms and empowers them on every level.

The "god" I speak of is not christian muslim etc., but the universal cosmic consciousness; very real, very physical and very interactive.

I understand your skepticism. It is like a deaf person being told how he will be able to hear for the first time in his life, but not yet able to hear. Not just skepticism, but complete incomprehension of what that would be like, and what it would mean for them, would be a normal reaction...

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The physical connection to a physical god is similar to a person, deaf since birth, receiving a cochlear implant and being able to hear the world around them. It not only transforms them physically, but the result of the connection transforms and empowers them on every level.

The "god" I speak of is not christian muslim etc., but the universal cosmic consciousness; very real, very physical and very interactive.

I understand your skepticism. It is like a deaf person being told how he will be able to hear for the first time in his life, but not yet able to hear. Not just skepticism, but complete incomprehension of what that would be like, and what it would mean for them, would be a normal reaction...

Well I wouldn't dare discuss the topic with you as you are declaring not discussing. You have already declared me as ignorant (the deaf analogy).

Anyway what if I say the same to you (And I also do understand your Theism as I was one (It's what my parent's taught me, wanted me to be, since childhood, my brother still tries to, I've heard all that you are trying to preach, but then I doubt that you ever were an Atheist so maybe You don't understand my skepticism) ? What if when you hear it is the sound of there being no GOD, would that be a complete incomprehension of there being existence of nothing that you deafly (pun intended) believe ?

GOD has always been Christian or Muslim or Hindu maybe (too many there) , which ones are Vengeful and ask to cleanse the earth of non-believers ? I can't say but this is religion for you !!!! You need a Vengeful GOD ?

And Yes these comment of mine is very much off topic so sorry. You don't need to reply to that if you don't want to.

Spock The Future.

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Posted (edited)

Well I wouldn't dare discuss the topic with you as you are declaring not discussing. You have already declared me as ignorant (the deaf analogy).

Anyway what if I say the same to you (And I also do understand your Theism as I was one (It's what my parent's taught me, wanted me to be, since childhood, my brother still tries to, I've heard all that you are trying to preach, but then I doubt that you ever were an Atheist so maybe You don't understand my skepticism) ? What if when you hear it is the sound of there being no GOD, would that be a complete incomprehension of there being existence of nothing that you deafly (pun intended) believe ?

GOD has always been Christian or Muslim or Hindu maybe (too many there) , which ones are Vengeful and ask to cleanse the earth of non-believers ? I can't say but this is religion for you !!!! You need a Vengeful GOD ?

And Yes these comment of mine is very much off topic so sorry. You don't need to reply to that if you don't want to.

Spock The Future.

I am not responsible for how or why you respond to my words. I did not intend to compare you dispararagingly with a deaf person. I just used a practical analogy we could both understand. it is not disparaging to call a deaf person deaf, it is a fact of life.Ii do not see a deaf person as less than a hearing person, but they have a disability which limits their percetion of and interaction with their world My assumtoon is tha t99% of peol born deaf would prefer to be avble to hear.

I ws not only an atheist but a secular humanist for my early life The sound of no god is normal for most people but it isa form of deafness to an external reality whic exists. What peole make of god depends on what sort of god they construct and what sort of person they are. Id hope from reading my posts you could tell that my god is loving kind intelligent and doing his best to imrove me ""My god" is the god of pagans, animists, druids, gaens, muslims, christians, jews, sikhs jainists and atheists etc. but atheists just dont know it yet.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Id hope from reading my posts you could tell that my god is loving kind intelligent and doing his best to imrove me ""My god" is the god of pagans, animists, druids, gaens, muslims, christians, jews, sikhs jainists and atheists etc. but atheists just dont know it yet.

Hi Mr. Walker,

So when you say my god it means that SHE/HE is your personal GOD and is doing your best to improve you. We call it unconscious mind. Even Theist cannot know your personal GOD let alone Atheists, SHE/HE is as personal to you as invisible friends are for children, they cannot be shared.

And as I said earlier you don't leave room for discussion, You always declare, Please don't mind me saying this but it seems to me as the case with you.

Finally I Agree that you cannot be responsible for how or why I respond to your words, I am the one responsible for my Words and Actions and you for yours.

Spock The Future

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So honestly isn't it about personal freedom and our own believes as Mr. Walker undoubtedly prove. He has his own belief system, thus his own GOD. Why try to make me believe the same ? I won't ever try to dissuade him not to believe, why try to make me believe and try to force me to it ?.

This is what I never liked and expected (I'll tell you) from my family. When I joined the forum I treat you all like the same (Like Family). Let's have different views, share them, try and convince and not try to force with holier then thou attitude.

Try and understand, I am ready to try and understand the views of my Theists friends till the time they do not start to declare themselves as ultimate salvation. I don't declare mine as one, I just say I believe there is no GOD, I am not forcing you to believe otherwise, if my reasons seem good enough to you then think about it, don't follow me, just follow yourself and your thinking, otherwise follow the priests you like, who am I to say otherwise ?

Most fights and killings We had were because of religion since ancient times. There is a religion being practiced now whom almost all the terrorists follow and who consider religion above nation and peace (You all know which one, convert and kill the ones who won't convert they say !), Still politicians need to have votes and these people breed like rabbits (They do !!), So democracy goes bust. Would I still want a religion on earth unless it teaches a peaceful way of life ? something which is on you alone and where WE like Mr. Walker decide who your own personal GOD is and allows US to pursue your own way of enlightenment and attain peace with all of mankind ?

Or do you want to be dictated about what and who you should believe (Or else treated as enemy) by your so called enlightened priests ?

You tell me !

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This is that is required I guess and no religious doctrines get there, they do preach it but never practice it

This is not fault of the religious doctrines, but fault of the people who claim to adhere to it yet in the same time perverse it as much as they can. Make no mistake, if you believe in God and his Enemy, you will understand that Devil does everything in its power to stop or misguide message of God, and best way is to gradually mix lies with truth. For example, if you look into catholic doctrines, and behaviour, it is far away from teachings of Christ, yet that Church claims to be based on Him!

That is the same reason Hebrew officials decided to remove Jesus to preserve their tradition based on Torah. Although teachings of Christ were completely in accordance with Torah. Even when they knew His works couldn't be done without help of God, they still rebuked Him and denied Him. Don't you see the pattern there?

And I Agree when you say " because merely verbally declaring someone's faith isn't getting someone into heaven". You let someone else take the fall for the crimes that humanity did and make that a religion ? Then what is the basis for that religion ? Next time humanity does more crimes let some or other Goat take the blame for it, suffer and die and we all are washed off our sins ?

No human is forced to transfer the blame to scapegoat. You can do your best to live by Justice, but at the end, you will be judged according to your deeds. Crist came us to teach that there are some things you can do even above the requirements of law, and those things are mercy and humility. I believe you don't have children of your own? If you did, you would understand how normal is to forgive your children and take their blame on yourself, instead of punishing them every time they break your rule.

I find it hard to understand that people have very sound understanding of parents-child relationship, yet cannot comprehend God- humans relationship, although they are so similar.

And sins, Christianity starts with Original sin, does it not ? so even a baby needs to repent when born, and who gets to decide what is sin and blasphemy ?

No, Christianity teaches children are without sin. But again, Catholic church has perverted that and made up story about Originas Sin, although Jesus himself clearly stated that children are innocent.

The power hungry priests ? Clergy ? Have you ever stopped and counted the number of Child abuses done by the Clergy ? and they still maintain their posts. Is that not Sin and deserve punishment ? Why do you people let them continue ? Throw them out for your religion's sake and then tell me that your religion teaches all that you are telling me that it does. Show them cause and consequence first.

What some fallen members of clergy do to children is despicable, and such monsters deserve every punishment for their actions. But this is also perversion of Gods will, because clergy should be able to marry to woman and have lawful sexual relationships, that would certainly decrease such cases.

But you can't judge the christian faith because of shortcomings of some people who claim to be christian yet behave like ungodly beasts. Same thing goes for every religion, it is really irrelevant what faith someone says to believe in, God knows heart of men, and judges accordingly.

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Posted (edited)

This is not fault of the religious doctrines, but fault of the people who claim to adhere to it yet in the same time perverse it as much as they can. Make no mistake, if you believe in God and his Enemy, you will understand that Devil does everything in its power to stop or misguide message of God, and best way is to gradually mix lies with truth. For example, if you look into catholic doctrines, and behaviour, it is far away from teachings of Christ, yet that Church claims to be based on Him!

That is the same reason Hebrew officials decided to remove Jesus to preserve their tradition based on Torah. Although teachings of Christ were completely in accordance with Torah. Even when they knew His works couldn't be done without help of God, they still rebuked Him and denied Him. Don't you see the pattern there?

Well therein maybe lies the logic. People quoting GOD and perversing it ! How are you different ? Hmmm...... You say that SHE/HE was quoted wrong and the same makes you different ! Who wrote the doctrines and message of so called GOD may I ask ? We people (or the angels or the apostles ) ? Were you there when it was done ? any solid proof it terms of there being photos or videos as is asked in this forum ? And are you sure that they were not in the Influence of Devil when they wrote it ? You tell me. GOD and HER/HIS Enemy (Created by HER/HIM of course, Lucifer ha... ha...). So GOD Creates HER/HIS enemy so that we can argue over it and feel glad somewhere ? Well we can have a discussion here lasting eternity (Pun Intended).

No human is forced to transfer the blame to scapegoat. You can do your best to live by Justice, but at the end, you will be judged according to your deeds. Crist came us to teach that there are some things you can do even above the requirements of law, and those things are mercy and humility. I believe you don't have children of your own? If you did, you would understand how normal is to forgive your children and take their blame on yourself, instead of punishing them every time they break your rule.

I find it hard to understand that people have very sound understanding of parents-child relationship, yet cannot comprehend God- humans relationship, although they are so similar.

So GOD is a parent who send HER/HIS child to suffer the sins committed by Humanity and instead of coming down HER/HIM self and not send HER/HIS own single child to suffer the pain (As A good parent let me take the blame and suffer and be beaten by whips and be crucified and not my beloved child Jesus as you say !), And should I tell you what Jesus had to suffer ? Me being a parent would I allow that to happen to my own child ? what are you trying to say here ? Explain GOD's relationship with HER/HIS own pure and most loved son Jesus who was tortured while that could be stopped by An all powerful GOD ? Is that being a Good Parent ? Let the good child who can do the most Good be Killed for someone, who are Us the ignorant and sometimes Atheist people who you know will never understand and those who do become priests who are The Theists, try and become all powerful by becoming religious freaks ? Would they ever realize and Tell themselves that they represent the unfortunate child Jesus and deem that whatever was said or whatever was written in that backward century is right ? That stupid Idiot called GOD who just let HER/HIS Son be slaughtered is Happy now and listens to the bigoted priest and lets her/him decide who dies as a witch or warlock or not ( !! They would be forced to kiss my feet the priest thinks because of the power of fear of GOD that I Wield. Them being the utmost decision maker in the early 20K for the religion !!!!!!!!, ,it still is the case in this so called scientific century ? Or Is SHE/HE not the all knowing one ? stop kidding yourself.

No, Christianity teaches children are without sin. But again, Catholic church has perverted that and made up story about Originas Sin, although Jesus himself clearly stated that children are innocent.

Well there you are and you did read the Bible eh ?

What some fallen members of clergy do to children is despicable, and such monsters deserve every punishment for their actions. But this is also perversion of Gods will, because clergy should be able to marry to woman and have lawful sexual relationships, that would certainly decrease such cases.

But you can't judge the christian faith because of shortcomings of some people who claim to be christian yet behave like ungodly beasts. Same thing goes for every religion, it is really irrelevant what faith someone says to believe in, God knows heart of men, and judges accordingly.

Why are these fallen members still not thrown out ? Why do they still continue and get to better and upward posts ? Where is the punishment ?

So you think they should marry ! Then why is the management so backward and unthoughtful ? They still cover and employ them. Beasts they are, and are actually the followers of the Enemy of GOD ? and yet they are still free to preach the word of so called GOD ?

There is one religion that I can quote (I would be reprimanded on the forum if I name that religion) can justify all the killings that they do (They are told that they will have 72 virgins in heaven !!), Are you going to compare with them and say you are better ? Does being less bad then the worst that there can be, makes your religion better ?

Can't say that I understand, then It's just me, there are multitude of opinions about it. Who knows who is right, at least I do not wish to force you based on fear mongering about going to hell to make me believe you. All the religions I know do that.

Edited by Spock_the_Future

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Not being entirely understood and being preached every now and then. This is actually the issue. This is what I call "The Repercussions of being an Atheist".

I never force you. Why does the religious people try to force the issue down my throat ? Live and let live !! What happened to that ?

Edited by Spock_the_Future
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Not being entirely understood and being preached every now and then. This is actually the issue. This is what I call "The Repercussions of being an Atheist".

I never force you. Why does the religious people try to force the issue down my throat ? Live and let live !! What happened to that ?

I'm sorry mr. Spock, but if you look at my first post, I simply explained to you why are you experiencing what you experience, and I gave you direct advice, to read and quote Epistle of Romans, whenever your family is bothering you. I did not enter any sort of preaching, but obviously you are the one who has issues and has need to solve them with this community. If you think my statements are bothering you or seem preachy, feel free to say so and i will not bother you, i got enough things to hunt in my swamp :D

Still your last reply will require some clarification.

Well therein maybe lies the logic. People quoting GOD and perversing it ! How are you different ? Hmmm...... You say that SHE/HE was quoted wrong and the same makes you different ! Who wrote the doctrines and message of so called GOD may I ask ? We people (or the angels or the apostles ) ? Were you there when it was done ? any solid proof it terms of there being photos or videos as is asked in this forum ? And are you sure that they were not in the Influence of Devil when they wrote it ? You tell me. GOD and HER/HIS Enemy (Created by HER/HIM of course, Lucifer ha... ha...). So GOD Creates HER/HIS enemy so that we can argue over it and feel glad somewhere ? Well we can have a discussion here lasting eternity (Pun Intended).

The same questions were asked in beginning of Christianity. And different people gave different answers, their doctrines were different in different cities, although they received same message from apostles. This problem was specifically adressed by Paul and other apostles in several epistles. However, one thing you seem to miss the whole time. Power of Christianity doesn't lie in theology, doctrines or philosophical answers. Power of Christianity lies in supernatural displays of Gods love. That was the only reason Christianity spread so quickly and thoroughly, when you saw the work of God in your life, you left no doubt.

You are free to believe whatever you choose, and it doesn't matter, you will be judged by your decisions and actions. My only desire is to explain that existance of God, who is loving and caring, who gave His Son to be sacrified, doesn't contradict current state of the world and doesn't have logical errors, hence it is possible. I'm not trying to prove it is probable.

So GOD is a parent who send HER/HIS child to suffer the sins committed by Humanity and instead of coming down HER/HIM self and not send HER/HIS own single child to suffer the pain (As A good parent let me take the blame and suffer and be beaten by whips and be crucified and not my beloved child Jesus as you say !)

God IS the one who has been beaten and crucified. He didn't send someone else, He went the whole way.

And should I tell you what Jesus had to suffer ? Me being a parent would I allow that to happen to my own child ?what are you trying to say here ?

I assume you would take the blame for your child, like God did.

Explain GOD's relationship with HER/HIS own pure and most loved son Jesus who was tortured while that could be stopped by An all powerful GOD ? Is that being a Good Parent ?

If God would have forcefully stopped torture of Jesus, then Satans actions would be able to separate God and men for eternity. Jesus death meant that God and men can finally be reconciled.

Let the good child who can do the most Good be Killed for someone, who are Us the ignorant and sometimes Atheist people who you know will never understand and those who do become priests who are The Theists, try and become all powerful by becoming religious freaks ? Would they ever realize and Tell themselves that they represent the unfortunate child Jesus and deem that whatever was said or whatever was written in that backward century is right ?

Again, as i said, God doesn't divide people according to their beliefs. God doesn't support mindless hate outbursts of fanatical theists of any sort. Can't you understand that principles of God are humility and sacrifice, and that is only thing that matters to God?

That stupid Idiot called GOD who just let HER/HIS Son be slaughtered is Happy now and listens to the bigoted priest and lets her/him decide who dies as a witch or warlock or not ( !! They would be forced to kiss my feet the priest thinks because of the power of fear of GOD that I Wield. Them being the utmost decision maker in the early 20K for the religion !!!!!!!!, ,it still is the case in this so called scientific century ? Or Is SHE/HE not the all knowing one ? stop kidding yourself.

Bigoted priests who burn people to death are not doing Gods will, they follow the religion of Satan, which is way older than any Abrahamic religion. Don't you find it strange for instance that 99% of rituals in Catholic church have pagan origin? That shows you who is the true master of their doctrines. God does not go around and punish people for their sins or what not.That is a concept that humans have very hard time to understand, because we all have experiences with cause and effect law. Remember, once disciples asked Jesus about man blind from birth: "who's guilt is that this man is blind, is it his parents fault or his fault?" Even disciples couldn't take their mind out of that circle. Do you know what Jesus replied?

Well there you are and you did read the Bible eh ?

It seems that you also could use a little reading to better fortify your standpoints :) Matthew 18:1 and Mark 10:14 are exaples of what i wrote.

Why are these fallen members still not thrown out ? Why do they still continue and get to better and upward posts ? Where is the punishment ?

As I said, after 2K years of Satan manipulation, system is corrupt. Such individuals should be put to trial and in punishment.

So you think they should marry ! Then why is the management so backward and unthoughtful ? They still cover and employ them. Beasts they are, and are actually the followers of the Enemy of GOD ? and yet they are still free to preach the word of so called GOD ?

There is one religion that I can quote (I would be reprimanded on the forum if I name that religion) can justify all the killings that they do (They are told that they will have 72 virgins in heaven !!), Are you going to compare with them and say you are better ? Does being less bad then the worst that there can be, makes your religion better ?

You really should calm down when you get to forums :) No religion is better then any other in terms of assurance of goodness. God judges by heart, not by vocation or religious group.

Can't say that I understand, then It's just me, there are multitude of opinions about it. Who knows who is right, at least I do not wish to force you based on fear mongering about going to hell to make me believe you. All the religions I know do that.

You know in your heart what is right. Every day when you have to make moral decision, you know what is right thing to do. And fear mongering is absolutely wrong way to make people believe, but that is what happens when religion looses its supernatural abilities to motivate humans.This effect happens in any type of organization, not only religious. But true faith motivates people by love and humility and good example. So try to find something like that in your environment, any you will know that's where God is present.

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