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Spock_the_Future

The repercussions of being Atheist

291 posts in this topic

If God would have forcefully stopped torture of Jesus, then Satans actions would be able to separate God and men for eternity. Jesus death meant that God and men can finally be reconciled.

What was Satan's actions pray tell? It certainly wasn't thirst for blood, that goes to God.

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Posted (edited)

"My god" is the god of pagans, animists, druids, gaens, muslims, christians, jews, sikhs jainists and atheists etc. but atheists just dont know it yet.

I resent that. No you can't declare your god to be mine also.

Edited by HavocWing
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Posted (edited)

Bigoted priests who burn people to death are not doing Gods will, they follow the religion of Satan, which is way older than any Abrahamic religion. Don't you find it strange for instance that 99% of rituals in Catholic church have pagan origin? That shows you who is the true master of their doctrines.

Repulsive statement, how patronising, how smug and self righteous, and how totaly wrong. Those priests were Christians and they murdered people because they did the "will" of their non existant god. Do not insult anybody with this garbage that anything bad done in the name of Christianity is actually paganism or the work of satan. How ridiculous, how insulting, how typical of Christian apologists.

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Only online for a few min.. so will say whats running through my mind as it runs through it, without editing, so hope everyone can follow!

I think when it comes to Christians, their faith is just that.. faith. From the very beginning (not mankind, but from birth, ours).. we need other people, as an infant you needed someone to feed you, care for you, as you grew you learned about being in groups, being judged. As early as 4 yrs of age (watched a documentary bout it today, with Morgan Freeman!) children will do things in order to 'belong' or 'fit in' as they become self aware.

We carry these thought processes with us till the day we die. In general, when you are in a family that is religious, they depend on one another, sort of a 'group mentality', in order to help feed one anothers faith. We all do it in one way or another, it is just the way we are, the way we are brought up. Maybe it has to to do with our genetic makeup, to belong..

SO here you are, suddenly (to them) outside the group mentality.. the family way of doing/thinking. It is not something simple like a dress style or something, it is major, for them, life affirming thing.. it is religious.

Part of them believes they will go to heaven, or at least.. have a damn good shot at it. Now, if you do not believe, how will YOU get to heaven? If you are not in heaven, how will they feel? They are taught that they will be happy and overjoyed to be in heave, that tears and fears will be done away with, yet at the same time, there is that tiny bit of doubt.. enough to where they think they will be sad in heaven without you, and doubt for that, when they believe god will take away pain.. can lead to doubt and uncertanty in other things, and so they run into a few little logical issues that does not work well with 'faith' in god.

ergo, they need you to believe as they do.

Thats my thoughts on it, and each family and person are different, but in general, this group/family mentality is a major issue where religious beleifs are concerned.

My kids are lucky, I am agnostic/atheist.. they were not brought up religiously at all. I just said 'look at different things and make your own mind up'. They are agnostic, by their choice, they tried different faiths, from southern baptist to budism.

I never denied them any faith, if they needed rides to a church, I gave them. I had no issues with it at all, and sitll do not. I figure that if this is the ONLY life I have, then it is the only life others have, and I will be damned if I will make other people miserable in any way shape or form.

Which means, if they are religious, I will respect them their faith, I will not follow it, nor will I permit them to 'preach' at me, but I will show respect when we sit at a dinner table together and they want to say grace, I remain silent with my head bowed.. if they say they are praying for me because I am sick, I thank them politely and smile because they cannot hear my thoughts :P

I do feel bad for those angsty religious people who cannot show respect to others who do not believe. I feel bad for them because something must be horribly wrong with their 'faith', if they cannot allow others their rights to a non faith.

Something is wrong when you feel a need to make others believe as you do and cannot show them the respect you wish them to show you.

Thats my opinion on the whole thing.

I go my own way, and even when they show lack of respect, i keep giving it, but show up less often.. eventually they get it, because I do not argue/discuss with them. I just thank them for their thoughts and change the subject.

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These topics always make me shake my head and roll my eyes. (So I should stay out of them right?)

There are just as many repercussions of being an atheist as there are for being a vegetarian, or homeschooler, or Yankees fan, or wearing unfashionable clothing, or voting for the "wrong" candidate or anything someone doesn't agree with.

Some people aren't going to like how you do things and will try to change you. That statement is such a basic kindergarten lesson it amazes me when people don't accept it as fact, no matter what the topic.

If you are an adult, act like an adult already. Say "I'm not interested in discussing religion with you," or some such and change the subject. If they won't change the subject, leave.

If you're a kid, suck it up until you're 18 and then move out.

It really mystifies me that some people believe they have some right to do whatever they want in life and no one is allowed to say anything against them ever. Ridiculous.

If you're an atheist, stop giving religion so much power. It's no different than someone urging you to vote for the other guy on American Idol or whatever.

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It appears you have already made your mind up on what you personally think of the subject. You seem to be looking for reinforcement of your choice and not really other opinions.

My advice is to live with your choices and carry on as you want.

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Repulsive statement, how patronising, how smug and self righteous, and how totaly wrong. Those priests were Christians and they murdered people because they did the "will" of their non existant god. Do not insult anybody with this garbage that anything bad done in the name of Christianity is actually paganism or the work of satan. How ridiculous, how insulting, how typical of Christian apologists.

I made an effort to explain my standpoints, and gave facts on which i base those points. You didn't bother to provide counter arguments, your main statement is to call me bad names. Is this is the way you treat people who think differently then you? Would you like to be treated same way when you write your opinion?

You call yourself God, so i presume your moral standards have ultimate authority over mine, because i am no God.

What if i would one day have epiphany, and become equal to you, yet our moral standards would still be different, who would be right and who would be wrong?

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It appears you have already made your mind up on what you personally think of the subject. You seem to be looking for reinforcement of your choice and not really other opinions.

My advice is to live with your choices and carry on as you want.

Oh no, not ANOTHER mr. Spock... although a bit older :D Actually i like your answer best so far. ;)

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SO here you are, suddenly (to them) outside the group mentality.. the family way of doing/thinking. It is not something simple like a dress style or something, it is major, for them, life affirming thing.. it is religious.

Part of them believes they will go to heaven, or at least.. have a damn good shot at it. Now, if you do not believe, how will YOU get to heaven? If you are not in heaven, how will they feel? They are taught that they will be happy and overjoyed to be in heave, that tears and fears will be done away with, yet at the same time, there is that tiny bit of doubt.. enough to where they think they will be sad in heaven without you, and doubt for that, when they believe god will take away pain.. can lead to doubt and uncertanty in other things, and so they run into a few little logical issues that does not work well with 'faith' in god.

ergo, they need you to believe as they do.

Thats my thoughts on it, and each family and person are different, but in general, this group/family mentality is a major issue where religious beleifs are concerned.

This is very good point. How can a person be happy in heaven if s/he knows their dearest are still suffering on earth, or are bound not to join them? Yet you give honest and true explanation why mr. Spock family is so concerned about his faith and well being. And mr. Spocks probably respects and cares about them too, but he still has to answer to his own consciousness and feels he is right to not believe in God. It is a conflict that bothers him, but in my opinion it is always better to stick to his own beliefs and not give in to peer pressure. If you decide to believe, you have to do it with whole heart.

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I made an effort to explain my standpoints, and gave facts on which i base those points. You didn't bother to provide counter arguments, your main statement is to call me bad names. Is this is the way you treat people who think differently then you? Would you like to be treated same way when you write your opinion?

You call yourself God, so i presume your moral standards have ultimate authority over mine, because i am no God.

What if i would one day have epiphany, and become equal to you, yet our moral standards would still be different, who would be right and who would be wrong?

I stand by my comment. You, like others here, attempt to excuse the bad actions of Christianity by sticking your head in the sand and saying the people who did the bad things were not "real" Christians. They were. And who are you to decide who is or is not a Christian, you the Patriach or Pope?, you cannot say those people in the past were not Christian when then so obviously were. And I do not pretend to be God, perhaps try a better translator for my signature and also read it in context with the picture.

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Hi Mr. Walker,

So when you say my god it means that SHE/HE is your personal GOD and is doing your best to improve you. We call it unconscious mind. Even Theist cannot know your personal GOD let alone Atheists, SHE/HE is as personal to you as invisible friends are for children, they cannot be shared.

And as I said earlier you don't leave room for discussion, You always declare, Please don't mind me saying this but it seems to me as the case with you.

Finally I Agree that you cannot be responsible for how or why I respond to your words, I am the one responsible for my Words and Actions and you for yours.

Spock The Future

The unconscious mind is something very different, although as a child i wondered if there was a connection. I learned to connect my conscious ad subconscious minds for the purposes of controling my dreaming, before i was a teenager. I learned the various elements of mind and intellect before i went to school and how to recognise and use them. I was taught tto read and write while i was 2 years old andbeing the eldest child went on to teach my younger siblings this alowed me to read extensively and to understand much tha tmany children could not

My conscious and subconscious minds were connected to the cosmic consciousnes when i was about 11 or 12 in a life changing event which allowed me access to not just the mind of the cosmic consciousness but to many other minds connected to it.

The way to identify what is your own mind and that which is another is simple. Another mind KNOWS things you do not, and can show, tell or teach them to you it can educate you mentor you and teach you It can give and teach you skills and abilities such as being able to extend your consciousness out and around you to sense the space and peole etc around you and into other minds. It can teach you how to take control of your mind and body and hold your breath for 5 minutes or more. How to regulate pain and body metabolism etc.How to elimiante fear and emotive reactions and responses I learned all these things before i entered high school.

I think it also helped me develop an eidetic memory and the ability to read and comprehend a page of writing as fast as i could turn a page but perhaps those things were entirley my own skills .

You are quite right though The connection between me and god / the cosmic consciousness is personal. However, any human can develop the same form of relationship withe same cosmic consciousness. I know this because if I can do it anyone can I am in no way special as a human being. And i also know this because a number of books explain how others have had the same experience. It is like my relationship with my wife Only i can have that particular relationship /connection, but anyone else can have their own, such as her friends relatives etc.

LOL I am an old pedant. I have been teaching all my life. It even drives my wife mad.

Of course I am sure about what I know. What sort of fool could spend 60 years learning and studying and still not be certain about life. But of course i only know about my self, my own knowledge and skills and abilities and my connection to the universe.

I do not know anything about you, for example, except, in so far as being human, you will have many similar attributes and abilities to me. But i have spent a lifetime studying myself and my world, coming to know and understand both, and how i connect into all of that world.

I would like a few more centuries, but I am running out of time. I am very fortunate that access to the cosmic consciousness allows me to travel and study anywhere/when in space/ time, both on earth and across the universe but even with such a short cut, time only allows me to learn so much. I still need time to study languages and music in particular, although access to the cosmic consciousness (like dr who's tardis ) obviates the need to speak a language to see through another's eyes.

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I resent that. No you can't declare your god to be mine also.

Why not? I am happy to share. God is happy to share. What is the problem.

As far as I can ascertain there is only one physical "god", although on a larger scale it might be part of an "extended family" or race of beings stretching across the universe.

But anyone can construct their own human belief system about god. That is entirely a differnt thing. Go ahead and build god to your own template if you wish. I just never found that realistic or useful. What purpose or use is an artificial mental construct, built to your own needs and desires; to satisfy them.

I use these all the time, ( but not in god form) They make wonderful playmates and companions, but I am totally realistic about their construction and purpose. I make them to satisfy my own need for challenge, companionship, intelligent conversation, and other needs within my mind.

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I stand by my comment. You, like others here, attempt to excuse the bad actions of Christianity by sticking your head in the sand and saying the people who did the bad things were not "real" Christians. They were. And who are you to decide who is or is not a Christian, you the Patriach or Pope?, you cannot say those people in the past were not Christian when then so obviously were. And I do not pretend to be God, perhaps try a better translator for my signature and also read it in context with the picture.

The statement that bigots are not real christians, is not mine, it comes from Jesus. I don't decide on anything, I am just saying that God doesn't look what people confess as their religion, but He looks at their heart and He sees who is worthy of His blood and who is not.

I am also Slavenic who knows cyrillic and i don't need translator to understand your signature and first two words say "Ja Bog". Maybe you're not talking about yourself, although the definition of signature is exactly that. Even if you're not describing yourself, there is very little distance from saying "God doesn't exist" till "I am God".

Anyway, dude, i really don't want to go into trolling fiesta about this topic. OP has asked a question, i tried to answer to best of my knowledge, why don't you do the same?

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The statement that bigots are not real christians, is not mine, it comes from Jesus. I don't decide on anything, I am just saying that God doesn't look what people confess as their religion, but He looks at their heart and He sees who is worthy of His blood and who is not.

I am also Slavenic who knows cyrillic and i don't need translator to understand your signature and first two words say "Ja Bog". Maybe you're not talking about yourself, although the definition of signature is exactly that. Even if you're not describing yourself, there is very little distance from saying "God doesn't exist" till "I am God".

Anyway, dude, i really don't want to go into trolling fiesta about this topic. OP has asked a question, i tried to answer to best of my knowledge, why don't you do the same?

What I notice on this forum is that Christians really don't like being questioned, though are happy enough to attack pagans and atheists, and are hypersensitive about what their co-religionists did in the past. So, Jesus said that "Bigots are not real Christians". Really, think about that statement.

Hmm, and how will know if I am not really God, come here to test you all, to see how "Christian" and tolerant you are. My signature may be a bluff or a double bluff or counter double bluff, or simply some fignyar....

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Posted (edited)

Whenever religion comes up I see all groups end up attacking eachother.which is why I rarely talk about religious beliefs with most people.to say that christians do most of the attacking is absurd.im not christian by the way.id say most of the atheists ive talked to in my life are equally defensive and will try to convince whoever will listen why beliving in a higher power of any sort is wrong or even resort to name calling .but I certainly wouldnt judge every atheist I meet that way just because alot of them were .u cant judge a group based on the actions of a few...anyways I say believe what you want as long as your not hurting anyone and do your best to be a loving person

Edited by kajiwara

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I resent that. No you can't declare your god to be mine also.

Why not? I am happy to share. God is happy to share. What is the problem.

As far as I can ascertain there is only one physical "god", although on a larger scale it might be part of an "extended family" or race of beings stretching across the universe.

But anyone can construct their own human belief system about god. That is entirely a differnt thing. Go ahead and build god to your own template if you wish. I just never found that realistic or useful. What purpose or use is an artificial mental construct, built to your own needs and desires; to satisfy them.

I use these all the time, ( but not in god form) They make wonderful playmates and companions, but I am totally realistic about their construction and purpose. I make them to satisfy my own need for challenge, companionship, intelligent conversation, and other needs within my mind.

That's just it, this is all coming from a subjective point of view. No one can accept your belief system, if they don't believe it or have the proof to believe it. To me, what ever you say about your subjects of your belief system, unless you can factually show they exists, it's not what I believe. That would go the same for me trying to get you to believe my belief system. Unless I have facts to show why I believe in it, I don't think you would believe it, knowing you. I mean, I can say you have the inability or your cut off from my truth of what I believe, what would you feel about that?

The rest of your post here talks about how you do with it. When there are no facts or proof, you cannot make someone believe, if they honestly do not believe. I personally would not believe in something you say I would have the inability or am cut off from, when you yet have the proof to show that it's actually there.

This is to the OP. I hear you. Now, growing up, I never had that problem. I come from a family, who pretty much didnt go to church and it has been very secular. I married into a family that is the same thing. Yet, I'm not Atheist, I have my own personal religion based on my own truths that got me there. Yet, much I have a strong believe and practice in my religion, my children are Atheists. Would I like them to believe what I believe, oh yeah. Yet, I am not going to force them, belittle them, or judge them. I stand behind them. If my religion is strong enough, I have my ways that ensures me that they are taken care of. People say they can pray for you, good for them. You won't know any difference, and if they religion is true, then there they go. I love my children and that means I care what they believe and they to be true to themselves. I think your family loves you, but how much do they care how you feel and such? I hope I am not hurting when I say this. I think, there is so much to this great big universe that we don't know, that I think that so much is possible and all paths are understandable. I don't think, you say you are converted, if you let them because you gave up, and then be true to yourself. I would think they would want you to be true to yourself. How well do they know about their religion to know for a fact what is going to happen?

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Whenever religion comes up I see all groups end up attacking eachother.which is why I rarely talk about religious beliefs with most people.to say that christians do most of the attacking is absurd.im not christian by the way.id say most of the atheists ive talked to in my life are equally defensive and will try to convince whoever will listen why beliving in a higher power of any sort is wrong or even resort to name calling .but I certainly wouldnt judge every atheist I meet that way just because alot of them were .u cant judge a group based on the actions of a few...anyways I say believe what you want as long as your not hurting anyone and do your best to be a loving person

no, any n none is true, while truth is the exclusive living

so there cant b any compromise or smthg in between, u must hold that alone and never mention it

u cant mention but what is true which is obviously known by u

that is why the sense of existence seem to b through reverse

bc when we cant say what is positively known we can say what is negatively known

so pointing evil especially when it is god and gods is a must for any to pretend being any right

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Why not? I am happy to share. God is happy to share. What is the problem.

As far as I can ascertain there is only one physical "god", although on a larger scale it might be part of an "extended family" or race of beings stretching across the universe.

But anyone can construct their own human belief system about god. That is entirely a differnt thing. Go ahead and build god to your own template if you wish. I just never found that realistic or useful. What purpose or use is an artificial mental construct, built to your own needs and desires; to satisfy them.

I use these all the time, ( but not in god form) They make wonderful playmates and companions, but I am totally realistic about their construction and purpose. I make them to satisfy my own need for challenge, companionship, intelligent conversation, and other needs within my mind.

MW, how would one go about discriminating the difference I wonder. How does one subjectively tell the difference subjectively? How is one realistic about the subjective?

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Posted (edited)

MW, how would one go about discriminating the difference I wonder. How does one subjectively tell the difference subjectively? How is one realistic about the subjective?

it is possible unfortunately, bc any is free wether alone or as a reality, and when it is the truth ends and truth is infinite superiority then freedom keep being source of other different freedoms

evil is the inferiority that mean to get over the truth by possessing it

so refrainin evil from being is in certain perspective the way that would reveal freedom objective values

which is principally about the energy of being right and all rights to b

Edited by absols

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Tombstone reads... "All dressed up and nowhere to go." :no:

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Posted (edited)

lol it looks like that but it isnt

the true picture is naked to an edge that it confirms being the only thing existing, so all destructions is the follow dog {translation: reversing gods}

Edited by absols

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Posted (edited)

Tombstone reads... "All dressed up and nowhere to go."

That joke is long played out.. I used to laugh at it 10 years ago !!

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Posted (edited)

That's just it, this is all coming from a subjective point of view. No one can accept your belief system, if they don't believe it or have the proof to believe it. To me, what ever you say about your subjects of your belief system, unless you can factually show they exists, it's not what I believe. That would go the same for me trying to get you to believe my belief system. Unless I have facts to show why I believe in it, I don't think you would believe it, knowing you. I mean, I can say you have the inability or your cut off from my truth of what I believe, what would you feel about that?

The rest of your post here talks about how you do with it. When there are no facts or proof, you cannot make someone believe, if they honestly do not believe. I personally would not believe in something you say I would have the inability or am cut off from, when you yet have the proof to show that it's actually there.

Actually I dont have a belief system, i just live with a very real, physical and powerful being, which humans normally call god.

BUT you are wrong about beliefs. A belief is constructed for a purpose. Anyone else can have a similar belief, if they share that common purpose or if the belief fulfils a need within them.

Thus many religions prosper and endure because they meet the most basic of human needs. Belief needs no proofs. Actually belief canot exist in the presence of proofs as non belief cannot exist.

Personally i could adopt any non harmful belief system and live by its rules, because all have purpose and benefit.

And all are one path to connecting to god (the cosmic consciousness) and becoming one with god 9that universal consciousness) I live by a life that has a lot of christian principle in, but just as much buddhist jainist muslim judaic or gaean. I even have elements of pagan and druidic behaviour in my life. I appreciate the natural powerful significance of nature, the seasons, the natural environment, the solstices etc., in the formation of human spirituality and belief.

I do not ask others to "believe" as i do because i have no belief as such. But i do tell them honestly that i don't believe in a constructed god; rather i know a very real physical and powerful being who interacts with me on a daily basis, to protect, mentor, guide and empower me.

No one has to believe that either, but it is not a belief it is a factual element of my life, and of the world. No one is compelled to believe anything i say about myself. I might really be a teenage girl. But what i speak is always the truth as i know it. Nothing else is worth speaking, because only the truth is an effective tool, and only a human being who always speaks the truth as they know it, can be trusted.

If i am not trusted, then I might as well say nothing, and if i do not speak the truth I cannot be trusted and might as well say nothing.

Because I want people to hear, if not necessarily believe, what i say, then i must always be as truthful as i can be, or else stop speaking..

Edited by Mr Walker

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There was a time when to be a Communist party member you were expected to be an atheist, much like to become a Mason you have to confess belief in some sort of deity. Are these sorts of things discrimination? Do you have to be a Catholic to be Pope? How about to be a church janitor?

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Posted (edited)

MW, how would one go about discriminating the difference I wonder. How does one subjectively tell the difference subjectively? How is one realistic about the subjective?

LOL The same way one learns to determine all mental constructs from all physical realities. By using different skill sets from within one's comprehensive intellectal tool box.

Imagination vs realism, logic versus wishful thinking. The physical laws of the natural universe vs the laws ones creates by which any fantasy reality may operate. (and these can be different for differnt realms of fantasy) If one writes a western one has to use difernt parameters and language to a romance, science fiction, historical drama etc.,

As I've explained before i have written both a family history, and a series of adventure game modules, as well as a couple of childrens stories. In each case I use "my self", my language geographical/historical political psychological and sociological skills and knowlegde to construct the environments and characters, but I bring alternate rules of engagement to the task.

One is a work of history and uses the rules of writing history, the others are forms of creative writing and use the rules for creative writing

So it is with the real world. vs the constructed worlds of ones mind. The objective world has objective realities and parameters to demonstrate its existence. The subjective world has only subjective realities and parameters by which to define its existence.

But it is I who consciously decide and create those realities and paramaeters within any constructed reality, whereas in the mundane world they are objectively existent and demonstrably so. One simple example. In any form of subjectively created world, if given a rational basis for doing so I can fly without assistance (not likely in a western for example unless that western was set in another reality.) But in the mundane world, so far I cannot. The closest i can get to that experience in the mundane world is hang gliding and scuba diving but the physical sensations from these experiences can be transfered to a constructed world just as riding a horse bareback can be transferred to riding a dragon bareback.

So, put together the memories of riding a horse bareback and hang gliding through clouds, and you havee a construct of riding a dragon bareback through clouds, which you can then use in your imagination dreams or writing as if it was real.

Edited by Mr Walker

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