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FlyingAngel

Other side of a mirror

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Could it be that the other side of the mirror is a parallel universe ? Is there any well documented scientific experiments which show that the light/photons from this universe really bounce back when it hit the mirror ? How can we be sure that the light which let us too see doesn't come from the other side of the parallel universe.

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I used to wonder about this when I was a kid. Another thing is, when we look at our reflection in a mirror, the image is reversed. This can be explained by our scientists, but still it's like an alternate "you" is staring back.

As the amount of energy in the universe is stable, it cannot be added to or subtracted from, I don't think photons from an parallel universe would be allowed to enter our universe. However, if an equal number of photons from our universe enter a parallel universe as photons from that universe enter ours, I suppose the statis quo would be maintained.

It's seems odd that when I look at the back of a mirror, the back of the mirror is black. If we could look through the back of a mirror, what would we see?

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Posted (edited)

It's seems odd that when I look at the back of a mirror, the back of the mirror is black. If we could look through the back of a mirror, what would we see?

If it's a 2-side mirror, seeing its back is the same as seeing its front

As the amount of energy in the universe is stable, it cannot be added to or subtracted from

In this case, it's neither a destruction or a creation, it's a matter of shifting from one world to another world.

Edited by FlyingAngel

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Could it be that the other side of the mirror is a parallel universe ? Is there any well documented scientific experiments which show that the light/photons from this universe really bounce back when it hit the mirror ? How can we be sure that the light which let us too see doesn't come from the other side of the parallel universe.

Lets suppose you have a magic box. Its magic because its walls have been constructed in such a way as to stop all information leaking from the outside world to the inside and vice versa. If a machine rolls a dice in that box then each of its six outcomes co-exist. Its only when information is gained on the dice (by opening the lid and looking in) that those six outcomes collapse leaving one.

The multiple outcomes of a probability are what extra dimensions/parallel universes are.

However they only exist when something really is behaving as a probability (you have no information directly or indirectly on it). The reason why atoms behave quantum mechanically is because they're so small and leak so little information that they really are behaving as a probability under most circumstances.

Just for fun I'll point out scientists havent investigated if trance states induce quantum mechanical behaviour in objects. During trance your mind blocks off information from whatever you arent focused on. Its also not been determined if an object, sat in a drawer, inside someones house, on the other side of town leaks so little information to you (because of the barriers in the way) that it behaves quantum mechanically.

If either are true then I have a pretty good idea of how to make witchcraft work, or to give it a more scientific name, quantum teleportation lol

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Giant Killer B, would a dice or an object in a drawer, as they exist on a much larger scale than the quantum scale, behave as you say they do? And. if we have this box in our universe, wouldn't five other boxes need to exist in these parallel universes? What if only one person in a parallel universe opens up the box? What if five people open up their boxes? The number on the dice in the sixth box would not be determined by a quantum probability, its number would already have been determined beforehand.

Would this be an example of quantum entanglement or quantum determinism?

FlyingAngel, Hmm...a two-sided mirror...I think both sides would reflect a parallel universe if this were in fact what's going on.

What I was thinking of was, if we could look through the back of a one-sided mirror, would we see the person looking at the mirror and his reflection looking back at him, reversed? Just a thought experiment. Maybe this is what someone in a parallel universe would see.

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To me, this makes no sense whatsover.

What could a mirror possibly have anything to do with a "parallel universe"?

And the back of a mirror is "black" only because it's the second coating used to block-out light. The first coating(closest to the glass) is a reflective coating.

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I'd love to be the character in my mirror.

Always so headlong with a prominent smirk. Patient eyes and calm features with a depth to a soul.

Oh, wait.

Ugh, I can't win in any situation.

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Infinity mirrors, oh noes.

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I don't like mirrors they creep me out.and I also don't like pictures either its like they can see your soul .

There is not many pictures of me in my older years

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To me, this makes no sense whatsover.

What could a mirror possibly have anything to do with a "parallel universe"?

And the back of a mirror is "black" only because it's the second coating used to block-out light. The first coating(closest to the glass) is a reflective coating.

That's what I want to find out. How could we prove that reflections in the world are really light bouncing back after hitting a surface and not just go straight and coming from the other side? Or we just see the the other side is exactly the same and we pretend that the light is bouncing back?

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That's what I want to find out. How could we prove that reflections in the world are really light bouncing back after hitting a surface and not just go straight and coming from the other side? Or we just see the the other side is exactly the same and we pretend that the light is bouncing back?

Allow me to in to introduce you to the site: www.physicsforums.com

They will completely answer your question, if you register(free)

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I also don't like pictures either its like they can see your soul .

...Oh dear....

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Posted (edited)

Giant Killer B, would a dice or an object in a drawer, as they exist on a much larger scale than the quantum scale, behave as you say they do? And. if we have this box in our universe, wouldn't five other boxes need to exist in these parallel universes? What if only one person in a parallel universe opens up the box? What if five people open up their boxes? The number on the dice in the sixth box would not be determined by a quantum probability, its number would already have been determined beforehand.

Would this be an example of quantum entanglement or quantum determinism?

FlyingAngel, Hmm...a two-sided mirror...I think both sides would reflect a parallel universe if this were in fact what's going on.

What I was thinking of was, if we could look through the back of a one-sided mirror, would we see the person looking at the mirror and his reflection looking back at him, reversed? Just a thought experiment. Maybe this is what someone in a parallel universe would see.

Its not the size of an object that determines if it behaves quantum mechanically its if information leaked from it is reaching you. However because larger objects leak more information its rare, under normal circumstances, that a macroscopic object sat before you will behave quantum mechanically. In physics information and heat energy are the same thing. So to make a macroscopic object behave quantum mechanically they have to cool it down to near absolute zero or find some other way of preventing heat leaked from it reaching you.

To answer your question about the magic box only one of them exists. Its the contents inside that are behaving as a real probability and therefore quantum mechanically. If an observer opens its lid then information leaks out into the universe. An observer receiving this information sees one outcome not the weird state of all outcomes co-existing at the same time (this is because gaining information on a probability collapses the probability).

If such information is prevented from reaching another observer then they could come along for their turn, open the lid, and stand a 5/6 chance of seeing a different outcome for the dice. Thats called a schrodinger cat paradox and means reality is unique to the information being gained by each individual. Or in more simple terms pretend everyone is sat in a virtual reality booth like in the film the Matrix experiencing their own version of reality.

Quantum Entanglement is when you have a real probability that links two or more objects (we'll take two and call them A and B ). If you measure the probability at A you also collapse it for B because its a single probability linking both objects. The outcome of the probability at A then determines the outcome of the probability at B. This is done faster than the speed of light regardless of distance between the two objects and is called quantum teleportation.

Photons are normally waves not particles and a wave is the same thing as a real probability. There isnt a parallel universe behind the mirror but the photon itself is in the weird state of multiple co-existing outcomes. All energy behaves like that under normal circumstances.

It sounds like you're trying to figure out how to access different dimensions but unfortunately you dont reach them through a mirror. Probabilities are best thought of as a little part of the multiverse and you may well be able to select the probabilities outcome. The experiments havent been done so I'm speculating below -

Engineer - He walks down the street and perceives his version of reality around him

Doctor - She walks down the street and perceieves a completely different reality because shes aware of different information.

Suicider - This unfortunate soul walks down the street and pereives their own reality too because they're only aware of negative information.

Trancer - The person in a trance has a closed down reality (tunnel vision) where they receive limited information.

What you perceive when you look out of your eyes determines how the little part of the multiverse collapses. Awareness of different information, by managing your own perceptions, collapses it in a different way.

Edited by Giant Killer B

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Giant Killer B, I understand what you're saying and agree with you. I was thinking along these lines: Let's say the dice has six wave function collapse probabilities for the dice in the box. When we open the box one probability becomes manifest and we see one number. If the other five probabilities have manifested in five other parallel universes, each person in those universes will see a different number on their dice.

If this actually happens, and if those five people in parallel universes open their boxes before we do, there is only one probability left for us. But, the number on the dice we observe when we open the box is not a probability, it is a certainty.

So in this case, the wave function collapse we observe is not due to quantum uncertainty. The Schrodinger cat paradox does not exist for us. If somehow we "knew" what numbers occur on the dice in these other five parallel universes, we could predict what the number on our dice would be before we opened our box.

It's just a thought experiment, who knows if parallel universes exist in this way, or that when a wave function collapses (if it really does) all the probabilities we do not observe manifest in these other universes.

I also don't believe mirrors are "leaks", as Kurt Vonnegut calls them, into other universes. But, hey, who am I to say they are not? Mirrors are creepy in a way. When I turn my back to a mirror and turn my head to look at it, the guy in the mirror is turning his head to look at me. If that's not spooky, I don't know what is.

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Do you just mean mirrors or anything that reflects? A natural mirror is water.

The light comes from the sun and I really believe that the sun's light rays can enter other dimesions and realities.

I don't believe the mirror shows a paralell world though. It can act as a scrying tool.

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Thank you for the link to the physics site, Pallidin. What a never-ending fascinating field.

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I wasn't aware how easy it was to create a peep hole into another universe. In fact with a little work you could build one yourself if you had the right tools.

http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/041796.html

The crazy thing is if we are getting a glimpse of what is in their universe, are they in turn getting a glimpse into our own? So how does this work, both universes are completely identical and we are always doing the same exact thing at the time. Whats the point in having the other universe, wouldn't it just be a waste of space and energy to sustain both, when one gets the job done.

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Its not the size of an object that determines if it behaves quantum mechanically its if information leaked from it is reaching you. However because larger objects leak more information its rare, under normal circumstances, that a macroscopic object sat before you will behave quantum mechanically. In physics information and heat energy are the same thing. So to make a macroscopic object behave quantum mechanically they have to cool it down to near absolute zero or find some other way of preventing heat leaked from it reaching you.

To answer your question about the magic box only one of them exists. Its the contents inside that are behaving as a real probability and therefore quantum mechanically. If an observer opens its lid then information leaks out into the universe. An observer receiving this information sees one outcome not the weird state of all outcomes co-existing at the same time (this is because gaining information on a probability collapses the probability).

If such information is prevented from reaching another observer then they could come along for their turn, open the lid, and stand a 5/6 chance of seeing a different outcome for the dice. Thats called a schrodinger cat paradox and means reality is unique to the information being gained by each individual. Or in more simple terms pretend everyone is sat in a virtual reality booth like in the film the Matrix experiencing their own version of reality.

Quantum Entanglement is when you have a real probability that links two or more objects (we'll take two and call them A and B ). If you measure the probability at A you also collapse it for B because its a single probability linking both objects. The outcome of the probability at A then determines the outcome of the probability at B. This is done faster than the speed of light regardless of distance between the two objects and is called quantum teleportation.

Photons are normally waves not particles and a wave is the same thing as a real probability. There isnt a parallel universe behind the mirror but the photon itself is in the weird state of multiple co-existing outcomes. All energy behaves like that under normal circumstances.

It sounds like you're trying to figure out how to access different dimensions but unfortunately you dont reach them through a mirror. Probabilities are best thought of as a little part of the multiverse and you may well be able to select the probabilities outcome. The experiments havent been done so I'm speculating below -

Engineer - He walks down the street and perceives his version of reality around him

Doctor - She walks down the street and perceieves a completely different reality because shes aware of different information.

Suicider - This unfortunate soul walks down the street and pereives their own reality too because they're only aware of negative information.

Trancer - The person in a trance has a closed down reality (tunnel vision) where they receive limited information.

What you perceive when you look out of your eyes determines how the little part of the multiverse collapses. Awareness of different information, by managing your own perceptions, collapses it in a different way.

I'm torn. I love the idea that we live in this subjective reality where our thoughts influence our reality, and I love your explanation of quantum effects being dependent on information leakage, but based on my physics background I see it from this point of view:

Schrodinger's Cat/magic dice box/whatever you want to call it, is just a model for us to attempt to understand the quantum world. The idea is that if we wish to measure something on the quantum scale we must introduce energy (since we cannot directly observe the quantum world), thus disturbing the particle/object we are measuring, influencing the measurement and collapsing the wave function. Up until we measure we don't know what state it's in (this is the paradox as I understand it--cat alive and dead until we observe) so we describe it in terms of probabilities. It's interesting to consider it in terms of "how much information the object leaks out", but I would argue that it's more accurate to consider it as "how easily the object is influenced when measured/observed" (which may in fact be the same thing). So the size MUST matter! Larger objects require a significantly larger amount of energy to disturb their state, which is probably why our observations don't drastically alter the objects around us.

Not all macroscopic objects/systems exhibit quantum phenomena when cooled. It requires a system of particles/objects made of bosons (many bosons can occupy the same quantum state). When cooled to near zero temperatures, the quantum effects become macroscopic because thermal fluctuations and interactions are reduced so as not to disturb the system and thus allowing many particles of the system to occupy the same quantum state (which I suppose is similar to information leaked, but at the same time I don't think information leakage is always equivalent to heat energy as you say).

Some deep stuff going on here no doubt.

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Posted (edited)

Physics dictates why light bounces off if mirrors. Plenty of experiments actually rely on them.

But the question is an interesting one. Human beings have a very interesting relationship with self reflection. In altered states of conciousness mirrors indeed allow access to peculiar state of viewing oneself. Unfortunately more often than not its the shadow self that lives behind the mirror. This is why many people are nervous about it and we have legends of bad luck and such.

If you ever have a chance wrestling with controlling your image as it contorts and try's to come Alive in a mirror while in an altered state of conciousness weather a meditative state or lucid dream is a very unique, disturbing at first, but ultimately enlightening when you manage to own your shadow and view yourself and like what you see.

Edited by Seeker79

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So when a mirror breaks, is the parallel universe destroyed as well?

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you can only be able to enter the other side of mirror if you ran from distance and picked up speed and ram into it

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Physics dictates why light bounces off if mirrors. Plenty of experiments actually rely on them.

But the question is an interesting one. Human beings have a very interesting relationship with self reflection. In altered states of conciousness mirrors indeed allow access to peculiar state of viewing oneself. Unfortunately more often than not its the shadow self that lives behind the mirror. This is why many people are nervous about it and we have legends of bad luck and such.

If you ever have a chance wrestling with controlling your image as it contorts and try's to come Alive in a mirror while in an altered state of conciousness weather a meditative state or lucid dream is a very unique, disturbing at first, but ultimately enlightening when you manage to own your shadow and view yourself and like what you see.

Ha, I had an OBE once and walked past a mirror that was sitting beside my bedroom door (it also existed there in the physical). I almost jumped into the mirror world but stopped myself last minute because I decided things would get very confusing very quickly. Kinda wish I did it anyway. I'll have to play around with this sometime.

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Posted (edited)

This thread is pretty wild.

To address the OP; it is possible to make partially reflecting mirrors: ``half-silvered mirrors'' are the most common, and often used in optics experiments, but you can make a mirror anywhere from 0% (i.e. just a pane of transparent glass) to 100% reflective depending on how you coat it.

So does the parallel Universe only occur at 100% reflective coating, or what?

It seems pretty obvious to me that reflections (not transmissions from alternate realities) occur.

Larger objects require a significantly larger amount of energy to disturb their state, which is probably why our observations don't drastically alter the objects around us.

In my opinion, Mr. Right Wing gave an excellent explanation. In particular, he mentioned heat in regards to quantum entanglement; and this is the real reason why our observations don't drastically alter macroscopic objects.

For an object to be entangled, it must be completely separated from its environment (as Mr. Right Wing said). ``Measurement'' is exactly the same as ``interaction''; if the object interacts with its environment it will lose its quantum coherence.

But it is appropriate to ask why isn't everything in one big entangled state? (i.e the entire Earth is pretty isolated by thousands of miles of vacuum from everything else in the Universe, so why isn't the Earth on big entangled quantum blob?) The reason is decoherence: the entropy of two separate un-entangled particles A and B is more than the entropy of the entangled pair ( A + B ).

The second law of Thermodynamics dictates that the entropy of a closed always increases. For small objects the entropy gain from decoherence is small, so small objects can stay entangled for quite a long time, however even these small entangled pairs can spontaneously decohere (without anyone measuring or interacting with them).

For a very large object with millions (or more) particles, the entropy gain from decoherence is so large that it is almost impossible to keep the collection of particles entangled; and even if you could cool the entire collection to low enough temperatures to entangle everything, they would likely spontaneously decohere very quickly.

Not all macroscopic objects/systems exhibit quantum phenomena when cooled. It requires a system of particles/objects made of bosons (many bosons can occupy the same quantum state).

Not true.

When cooled to near zero temperatures, the quantum effects become macroscopic because thermal fluctuations and interactions are reduced so as not to disturb the system and thus allowing many particles of the system to occupy the same quantum state

Also not true, quantum condensation is one form of entanglement but not the only form.

(which I suppose is similar to information leaked, but at the same time I don't think information leakage is always equivalent to heat energy as you say).

I guess this depends on perspective. Information is kind of equivalent to ``useable energy'', and heat is usually described as ``unuseable energy'', so ``loss of information'' is kind of equivalent to ``gain in heat''.

I think it is fair to say that ``loss of information'' is equivalent to increase in Shannon Entropy, which in quantum mechanics is von Neumann entropy.

I wouldn't say that the connection between thermodynamic energy and information is iron-clad though; I think there is still room for argument. The two are obviously related, but I am not sure that an equivalence relationship has been definitively established.

Edited by sepulchrave

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Ha, I had an OBE once and walked past a mirror that was sitting beside my bedroom door (it also existed there in the physical). I almost jumped into the mirror world but stopped myself last minute because I decided things would get very confusing very quickly. Kinda wish I did it anyway. I'll have to play around with this sometime.

I have not jumped into into a mirror but a spirit did open a door one time for me to go into. It was a mirror image world of this one, but once I went in it was a heavenly realm. Where people were playing with their kids and loving each other. It was an interesting journey. The doorway was through my hallway closet. Just a symbol of course, but occasionally I do open the closet just to check. :)

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I very rarely look into them....I prefer my own oblivious fantasy over looking at the real me.

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