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jmccr8

Decoding Neanderthals

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I came across this link and thought I would share it.I didn't watch the film but rather read the transcript as that option is available.

This program aired on PBS jan9,2013,

NOVA | Decoding Neanderthals

During the program Wil Roebroeks,Archaeologist,Lieden University discusses the first known synthetic produced 250kbp,the glue used in bonding spearheads to the shafts was originally thought to be a pine sap,after further analysis it was determined to have been fabricated from birch bark and had been subjected to a thermal process of 400degrees.The whole program is both interesting and informative and the credentials of the praticipants are listed.

I also found the information presented by Metin Eren University of Kent,Canterbury to be quite interesting as well.Mr.Eren discusses the Levallois technology in tool making,he states that it took him 18months to learn this tech even though he has several years experience in flint knapping.

jmccr8

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Neanderthals where not dumb,they where pretty smart to last as long as they did.

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I wish we knew more of the Neanderthal history. It is absolutely fascinating. I wonder if they created structures, monuments or had lived together in primitive towns.

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Hi Myles,

Yes Neanderthals are interesting,and there is much to learn about them.I will post some other links later as I only have a few moments before work this morning.Because there are so many similarities between them and Hss I wonder what transfers of knowledge and tech may have occurred over time,I have been looking at what types of information is available although my search skills are not that profound.

jmccr8

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Hi Myles,

If you are interested I am adding links that you or others may find interesting.

PLOS ONE: Genetic Evidence of Geographical Groups among Neanderthals

PLOS Collections: Molar Macrowear Reveals Neanderthal Eco-Geographic Dietary Variation

The first link discusses the regional differences within the Neanderthal species.The second link discusses diet based on tooth wear.The of the wear patterns of the teeth were compared to other Neanderthals that were living in different geographic areas the comparison was also applied to Hss living in those same geographic areas.

This next link is a wooden structure found in Spain dating from 55-50kbp.It could accomidate between 8-10 people with sleeping areas.

A Very Remote Period Indeed: Neanderthal wooden structures, sleeping areas and group size at Abric Romaní

This link discusses extended social networks,in part it studies the lithic trade and manufacture,the article is by Rebecca Sykes

Neanderthals 2.0? Evidence for expanded social networks, ethnic diversity and encultured landscapes in the Late Middle Palaeolithic | Rebecca Wragg Sykes - Academia.edu

This article is about the origins of the Neanderthals,it's not a long article but very informative.After the article if you scroll though to the end there is a library of books and papers covering a wide range of studies on Neanderthals,I am working my way through some of them now.

The origin of Neandertals

The last link for now is about a previously unknown archaic species of human,a cousin of the Neanderthals,that may have lingered in Africa until perhaps 25kbp,coexisting with modern humans,and on occasion interbreeding with them.

Cousins of Neanderthals Left DNA in Africa, Scientists Report - NYTimes.com

To be honest I really had no interest in Neanderthals,but after being here in the forum and having followed many threads started wondering about and then becoming more interested in them.I have been trying to find some area or rather geographic location that may have their have been their Eden so to speak.There have been so many incidents,tsunamis,earthquakes,meteors,etc over the last million years that have covered or destroyed areas on this globe that many questions will be left unanswered.I'm not talking in the extreme here with alternate realities,just the mundane could there have been denser populations in places like Doggerland or other areas that may not have been intolerable during the ice ages.

I also wonder if some our history and religious beliefs have been assimilated by us from them,it would be interesting if at some time we found a totem or idol that was in honor of some ancient Hss god.

jmccr8

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Wow! Thanks jm. Very interesting stuff. It'll take me a few to read through it all.

I think we really have only hit on the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the life of the neanderthal. I remember being taught that they were just namads who threw rocks at prey.

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Hi

I saw this article as well as a couple of others and thought I'd add them in this thread.

The first is about whether horses had been domesticated in Siberia 50k ago.The genetics are still present in horses today.The place that they were found was in the Denisovian cave in the Altai Region.The othere links are from the same source and from the same location.

Did ancient Siberians domesticate horses 50,000 years ago?

This article gives the arrivals of Homo erectus in Siberia at 1milbp to 800kbp minimum, having come through the northern route.

The first humans arrived in Siberia around one million years ago - attracted by mild weather!

Again from the same cave they have found enough genetic material to know that the finger belonged to a girl with dark hair and eyes and skin.They have found that she is related to people in Australia,the Philippines,and,New Guinea.She could be as old as 80kbp to 50kbp as they only had a finger tip to work with.

Siberian girl comes back to life after more than 50,000 years....

They also found a fossil that they call Atlai dog,it dates to 33kbp.It is the one of the oldes known ancestor of the modern dog.The creature is closely related to domestic dogs that extant wolves.

If at some time they can find more conclusive evidence as to whether they in fact had domesticated horse and dogs in those periods of time.It would make one question just how mobile these people could be and how they could spread out and transport goods from other areas.With dogs they would be good for hunting but the possibility of other domesticated animals and using dogs to herd may could be something else to consider.But that is just speculation on my part.

jmccr8

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hI,

Back with a couple more links,The first article proposes that Neandertal language and speech,shard with modern humans a millions years ago.The article states that our common ancestor Homo heidelbergsis was capable of speech and that there may be elements of Neandertal language in ours.

Neanderthal Language & Speech Shared With Modern Humans A Million Years Ago, Researchers Say

This article delves into te finding of the skeletal remains of a human/Neandertal hybrid from Northern Italy dating from 40-30kbp

First Love Child of Human, Neanderthal Found : Discovery News

If language and speech have been around that long it makes me wonder how old some oral traditions have been around.Are some of our legends and myths really ours or have we incorporated come from Neandertals.I have another article that suggests that the Basques were Neandertal as their language is so different than other languages.I didn't post it because I thought that it was a little off and with no other posters bringing any discussion to the thread did not think that I would add it,but just for the ell of it I will.

How the Neanderthals became the Basques

I am not saying that I agree but it is an interesting proposal anyway.

jmccr8

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That is an interesting proposal. Can't wait till we here how neanderthals built Stonehenge and were the inhabitants of Atlantis!

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This link is quite interesting and covers a lot of info.Although not the most significant item discussed was a find of a neandertal bone dredged up in the Doggerland area along with other artifacts.The paper discusses the possible extinctions and repopulation of northern Europe and Britain as well as the difficulty in determining Neandertal population densities due to the effect of the LMG and sunken areas.

The Ancient Human Occupation of Britain - Google Books

jmccr8

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Hi,

I found this article while looking for something else and am adding it here.The article is about a 77k mattress found in the Sibudu rock shelter in S.Africa,attributed to Homo erectus.Neandertals were also making grass beds,based on evidence from a cave in Spain dating to 53-39kbp.

The World's Oldest Mattress | Hominid Hunting

jmccr8

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This next article is about fossils found from the longlin cave in the Guangxi Province and the Malu cave in the Yunnan Province of China,and date to 11,500=14,300kbp.The fossils have a unique mix of moden features and traits rarely,if ever,seen in recent and Pleistocene humans.They are proposing that they belong to Denisovian,given the age of the fossils they likely live with Hss.

New Hominid Species Unearthed in Chinese Caves? | Hominid Hunting

jmccr8

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Hi,

This following article touches on when did the human mind evolve to what it is today.This is part of what I have been looking at in my search,from the links furnished in this thread I am trying to record some of the more significant aspects that I have come across in my search.The picture that I am seeing is vastly different than what I knew several months ago.

When Did the Human Mind Evolve to What It is Today? | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine

jmccr8

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This is another article about the development of speech.I wonder at times how old some words or names are,in my country you can travel through every town,village,hamlet or city and find the same street names,as well as some of these places having the same name.There are some names that I have seen in several countries.If language has been around for say 100k,twice that of what had been point of origin previously,over this amount of time many environmental changes have occurred.Is it possible that the names of some places have been brought from one location to another as these hominids transplanted themselves in new locations.It is also a long enough time span for myths and legends to develop and be transplanted as well.

Neanderthals talked like us half a million years ago and could even have shaped the language we speak today | Mail Online

The following article looks at permanent and temporary places of domicile habitation.apparently Neandertals employed housekeeping in their long term residences.

Neanderthals were a house-proud race who liked creature comforts, cave excavations reveal | Mail Online

jmccr8

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I came across these articles on admixture by John Hawks,the one discusses the Neandertal genome in African populations.

Neandertal ancestry "Iced" | john hawks weblog

The North African Neandertal descendants | john hawks weblog

Denisova at high coverage | john hawks weblog

jmccr8

Hi jm,

Had intended to forward the below yesterday. Hope that it not research that you are already familiar with and that you find the research to be of interest.

http://news.ucdavis.....lasso?id=10713

Swede

.

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Late edit: "Hope that it is not..."

.

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Hi Swede,

Thanks for the link,I did read another article on the subject.I like to read several different articles on the same subject so as to view it from other perspectives.

jmccr8

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Talking off the top of my head, I had thought the Neanderthals were a division of Homo erectus, a different species from us, which would imply any interbreeding would only produce mules. That there are genetic similarities, and that African populations of Homo sapiens may have had some of the same mutations as Homo erectus had is not surprising, since it is all in the same family. Too much can be made of such things.

The fact is Homo erectus percolated in Eurasia for at least 1.5 million years without any significant change in its tool chest -- hinting that most of it was instinct and not learned. Homo sapiens evolved in Africa and soon spread, showing significant cultural variation wherever they went and showing ever accelerating technological advance. The two species are biologically much the same, but sapiens clearly had the edge when it comes to the ability to learn.

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Hi Frank,

Thanks for dropping into the thread.The truth is that this is not really the kind of topic that will probably generate much discussion,however people do follow what is posted so I use this thread as a place to keep some of the information I have gathered,for some others it may be an opportunity to generate an interest.Every now and then I may include some of the questions that come to my mind.and later post what answer I may find.

If language has been around for 500k,and we see the first synthetic being manufacture in quantities sufficient to meet demand.We have a rather large scale lithics trade,and the movements of groups to trade centers both in the transfer of goods and selecting mates from other groups.There is far more about these ancient hominids for me to learn personally as well as the sciences as more discoveries are made.Language is not unique to one hominid line there were several hominids co-existing and for me it is interesting as to what effect inter-species exchanges may have filtered down to us through the ages.I am not proposing advanced civilizations,aliens or on the outer edges of sanity,could some of our myths and legends be much older,obviously they were intelligent enough to form religious and social structure that they would not record their history through story telling.

You or anyone else is always welcome to share their thoughts or post links that they may have come across,after all it's just a learning experience.

jmccr8

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Sorry,

I forgot to add that the first synthetic was dated at 250kbp.

jmccr8

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