If Adolf Hitler had what the NSA has now

[Clarakore]

This NSA thing is total contradictions when it comes to who is most against it (leftists like Dick Durbin) and who is telling us not to worry about it (rightwingers like Lindsey Graham).

[Clarakore]

Ya, it is just a thing...don't worry about it bros. Seriously, it is for the good of our country.

Intelligence operations like these are just collecting metadata. In case terrorists strike then they would have to go back to a judge to get permission to look closer at their numbers and whoever they have been calling.

[Kowalski]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin

Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins. -- Benjamin Franklin

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." --- Thomas Jefferson

[SHaYap]

it is not only a nice picture ...

if you don't want to .... which little piggy ever wanted to go, I wonder ?

~

[Babe Ruth]

When tyranny is abroad, submission is a crime.

Author unknown, maybe Thomas Paine.

[Kowalski]

[Clarakore]

When certain men see the machinations of tyranny around every corner and movie quotes are the ultimate expression of rebellion then they have simply traded in loyalty for country to that for the companies and corporations who sell these entertainment products.

Right wing radio and television is also just an entertainment product.

Not worried about the NSA or wannabe revolutionaries either.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

When tyranny is a broad, submission is a husband.

fixed for levity

[Raptor Witness]

Here's an interview that Daniel Ellsberg did on CNN yesterday, that was very revealing. The man has more credibility than almost anyone on this subject. After all, he took the heat for just such an act.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7wXVWjVfSY

Here's an interview with Barton Gellman of the Washington Post, who was one of the reporters that broke this story. What's most revealing is what he's not saying, which I'm sure will eventually come out anyway. After all, Snowden is in the relative safety of Hong Kong, where he can spill the beans as long as he wants. I can't wait for the book.

What I suspect is missing, and still under that "iceberg" he mentions, is the weaponization of the data they are mining. It's also, very likely why Snowden chose the timing he did, which coincided with President Obama's meeting with the Chinese Prime Minister in Palm Springs. The information we will gain, will likely expose a ton of hypocrisy, and I think that's a fair trade for his safety.

Snowden used an interesting code name for his communications with the Washington Post. He called himself Verax, which means "truth teller" in Latin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTHuqqcp3P8

Edited June 10, 2013 by Raptor Witness

[Babe Ruth]

When certain men see the machinations of tyranny around every corner and movie quotes are the ultimate expression of rebellion then they have simply traded in loyalty for country to that for the companies and corporations who sell these entertainment products.

Right wing radio and television is also just an entertainment product.

Not worried about the NSA or wannabe revolutionaries either.

I wonder if you know the difference between a country and its government?

[Raptor Witness]

For those who are interested, I'm starting a thread over in

Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs

The title will be, "How will the Antichrist find his Christian victims?"

After all, this is the conservative right's, bad boy of history and while most swear they'll all be partying at Jesus' house, I think there's room for that Amendment's interpretation too.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Raptor Witness

[Clarakore]

What does the politics forum and this intelligence gathering have to do with the Antichrist?

[aztek]

What does the politics forum and this intelligence gathering have to do with the Antichrist?

if you can't see what, may be you are not yet ready to be here.

[Clarakore]

Still not seeing what conspiracy theories and religious paranoia have to do with actual real-world politics?

[aztek]

Still not seeing ........

and you pbly never will.

[Clarakore]

Because they have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. Reputable politicians across the world do not engage in either paranoia over Nazi-like recreations or conspiracy theories.

Another reason why we probably never will see the connection is because it exists only in the minds of a few who cannot adequately explain the connection.

Do try, if you can, explain what conspiracy theories and religious paranoia have to do with actual real-world politics?

[Babe Ruth]

Because they have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. Reputable politicians across the world do not engage in either paranoia over Nazi-like recreations or conspiracy theories.

Another reason why we probably never will see the connection is because it exists only in the minds of a few who cannot adequately explain the connection.

Do try, if you can, explain what conspiracy theories and religious paranoia have to do with actual real-world politics?

If I may: religious paranoia and extremism drives the politics of Israel and Iran, mortal enemies. That extremism has brought us the Global War On Terror, and its happy participant, my government.

Conspiracies amongst humans, by strict definition, are at least as common as sexual relations amongst humans. Conspiracy theories are rampant because my government's default modus operandi is deception, sorry to report.

Is that a good start?

[Raptor Witness]

I'm always a little suspicious of people who attempt to change the category of another person's thread.

If I wanted to make it a conspiracy, I could have. If I had wanted to make it a subject for alternative history, I could have.

Asking the tough questions about a known government program, is what this thread is about.

I also don't hear this question being ask by the mainstream media. That's not a conspiracy either, they're just stupid.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Raptor Witness

[Clarakore]

If I may: religious paranoia and extremism drives the politics of Israel and Iran, mortal enemies. That extremism has brought us the Global War On Terror, and its happy participant, my government.

Conspiracies amongst humans, by strict definition, are at least as common as sexual relations amongst humans. Conspiracy theories are rampant because my government's default modus operandi is deception, sorry to report.

Is that a good start?

First of all thank you for answering honestly from your point of view.

Israel and Iran are not models of societies that will be thought of as desirable to live in for me.

Global war on terror is not successful and never had my support. Now that we have made many enemies we have plenty of security concerns to deal with as a result. Would rather we do so in a responsible and prudent manner free of hyper emotion or conspiracy theory.

Sexual relations serve a purpose and can be misused. Conspiracy theories are not going to be put in the same category as me especially since it has little benefit and education can limit the harmful effects, the main effect, of conspiracy theories. That is my view and while it seems you might believe conspiracy theory to be beneficial we will have to disagree.

Not believing that deception is as rampant or the modus operandi of our government because leaks like the Prism one reveal how transparency is easily obtainable. Others will use this same evidence as proof of secrecy being rampant instead. Again we will have to disagree.

Raptor is complaining and while the premise of this thread does seem like CT to me it is cool, his concerns while not agreeable to me will be deferred to. So if you want to respond please do but I won't continue the CT angle here, my piece and peace has been stated, have at it guys. Take care and thanks again for honestly answering from your pov.

Edited June 13, 2013 by The world needs you

[Raptor Witness]

U.S. Taps Half-Billion German Phone, Internet Links Each Month: Report

BERLIN, June 30 (Reuters) - The United States taps half a billion phone calls, emails and text messages in Germany in a typical month and has classed its biggest European ally as a target similar to China, according to secret U.S. documents quoted by a German newsmagazine.

The revelations of alleged U.S. surveillance programmes based on documents taken by fugitive former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden ...

[Babe Ruth]

So now it has been changed from the friendly "Ich bin ein Berliner" to something like "I am the world's biggest villain and war criminal".

Damn shame.

[Raptor Witness]

What I don't understand, is this bizzare argument all over the mainstream U.S. media that it's somehow OK for U.S. to spy on everybody else on earth. Governments against governments, and even allies to a certain extent I can understand but not one government against everybody else on earth. That's beyond imperialism. That's madness beyond words. That's playing Almighty God with people's minds. That's the Antichrist by literal definition, if you believe in that sort of thing. It's the ultimate in authoritarianism.

Don't these fools see the potential consequences of this? The US government will soon have the capacity to store and record every keystroke you've ever made on your computer, that's virtually every thought you've ever had when writing on your computer. That's not the kind of world I want to live in.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Adolf Hitler did not spy on people, he removed non Germans

[FLOMBIE]

Adolf Hitler did not spy on people, he removed non Germans

Hitler had the Gestapo to spy on people, but most importantly, he established a society of denunciation, so the Germans were spying on themselves. And he very much removed Germans as well: German jews, German homosexuals, German Jehova's witnesses, German opposition members, and the list goes on.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Hitler had the Gestapo to spy on people, but most importantly, he established a society of denunciation, so the Germans were spying on themselves. And he very much removed Germans as well: German jews, German homosexuals, German Jehova's witnesses, German opposition members, and the list goes on.

yes i know but i meant non pure germans