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Ashotep

Edward Snowden NSA whistleblower

325 posts in this topic

Not going to ask how long ago that was or why someone would even admit they worked in any "secret installation".

I can, the cold war is over. And after the cold war the program was disbanded. Things don't have changed all that much, I worked as journalist after it and still got at all information I wanted using the exact same ways.

As long as more than two know a secret ceases to be a secret real fast.

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Posted (edited)

*snip*

As long as more than two know a secret ceases to be a secret real fast.

Nice, here is another view:

Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

—Benjamin Franlkin


Now here is a more recent view on how the secrets were smuggled out, including how Snowden exceeded his authorized access and used a thumb drive (at least according to the LA Times).

Keep in mind a thumb drive or any device with a USB outlet such as cell phones, any device with camera capabilities as well, are not allowed into a SCIF.

*snip*

The Los Angeles Times first reported that Mr. Snowden used a USB thumb drive to smuggle electronic copies of an unknown number of classified documents out of the NSA facility in Hawaii where he worked. A U.S. official confirmed to The Washington Times “that’s one avenue” investigators are following.

The use of thumb drives on classified military systems — including those at NSA — has been effectively banned since malicious software, thought to be of Russian origin, infected the secret computer networks of U.S. Central Command five years ago.

A number of commercially available programs can switch off the USB port of every computer on the network.

“There is easily available software to do that,” said the security specialist, noting that there were also low-tech, more permanent means available.

“I have seen places where they used a hot glue gun to block it,” he said of the USB port.

Lawmakers briefed by NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander have not commented on the thumb-drive, but have said that Snowden was able to do something else he should not have been able to — exceed his authorized access to the NSA’s computer systems.

“It’s clear that he attempted to go places that he was not authorized to go, which should raise questions for everyone,” said House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Michael Rogers, Michigan Republican, on Thursday.

*snip*

NSA leaker Ed Snowden used banned thumb-drive, exceeded access

Something is still not adding up. No one computer system would hold all these secrets in one place unless a serious network security lap that needs correcting was in place. That could very well be it and the thumb drive scenario but it would take some time to fill up four laptops full of information a thumb drive at a time.

Oh well, when it does come out how exactly it was done there is no need for the public to know and if it is already known they most likely will not be telling.

Edited by The world needs you

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One wonders who was writing Mr. Snowdon's paycheck and showing him what to do.

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Indeed, Snowden is a liar by claiming one private contractor can have access to so much information or tap/bug any American citizen on a whim.

His claims are sensationalist and there is still doubt those claims originated with him instead of a higher entity using him as a mouthpiece.

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At this point, how he accessed the information is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Speeding, illegal lane changes and making an improper turn without using his turn signal is immaterial. The access he had appears to be over an extended period of time at his job. This isn't even really news without the details. Rand Paul has been warning for months if not years that the correspondences the federal government is listening to is in the billions. Did anyone else even hear him?

Indeed, Snowden is a liar by claiming one private contractor can have access to so much information or tap/bug any American citizen on a whim.

What evidence on the limits of access to information do you have to say this? Please quote Snowden on what you're even talking about.

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Courts have the final decision on what is legal or constitutional. Sometimes the decision a court makes is not well-liked by me but it is still respected. That is why we have the judicial branch.

Neither me, you, Snowden, libertarian politicans, talk show hosts, or some random person on the forum can tell us what is legal or constitutional. PRISM will be taken to court most likely, it already has by Yahoo in 2008, and it will likely be heard in higher more open courts as well, but in either case the courts decide.


Here is another non-judicial opinion so take it for what it's worth. It is worth about as much as our opinions but might be a bit more informed:

https://news.ycombin...item?id=5859307

Keep in mind (IANL = I am not a lawyer) and neither are you.

In other words the mantra of "it is not constitutional" adds nothing new to the conversation or changes the final outcome. Whether our courts finally decide it is, or what elements of these programs are legal or not, it won't be decided here on this forum.

Not persuasive in the least. We all speak English, and the language used in the Constitution is English. One need not be a lawyer to understand the language used in the document.

You seem to be busy as a little bee, defaming Snowden. :innocent:

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No Pallidin, there ARE NOT warrants under PRISM. There is NO PROBABLE CAUSE.

As you are asserting that there is either, please provide proof.

It's quite clear that this megadata is gathered on everybody and anybody, without a warrant and with no probable cause.

You can fool yourself into thinking there is, but I'm perhaps paying closer attention than you are.

OK, here's just one:

Retired Gen. Michael Hayden, a former NSA director, said on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" that what the agency collects are "essentially billing records" that detail the time, duration and phone numbers involved in a call.

The records are added to a database that agents can query in cases involving a terror investigation overseas, and agents can't eavesdrop on Americans' calls without an order from a secret court that handles intelligence matters, he said.

If a phone number related to an investigation has links to a domestic phone number, "We've got to go back to the court," he said.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/17/politics/nsa-leaks/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

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OK, here's just one:

Retired Gen. Michael Hayden, a former NSA director, said on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" that what the agency collects are "essentially billing records" that detail the time, duration and phone numbers involved in a call.

The records are added to a database that agents can query in cases involving a terror investigation overseas, and agents can't eavesdrop on Americans' calls without an order from a secret court that handles intelligence matters, he said.

If a phone number related to an investigation has links to a domestic phone number, "We've got to go back to the court," he said.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

And what makes you think he is telling the truth?

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Posted (edited)

And what makes you think he is telling the truth?

Hahahahahaaaaa!!!! Well, if he is lying, I have no idea.

Funny how CT's only consider information that supports their own position, and quickly dismisses that which does not.

I choose to consider all sides of a table before moving it around my living room.

Edited by pallidin
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Hahahahahaaaaa!!!! Well, if he is lying, I have no idea.

Funny how CT's only consider information that supports their own position, and quickly dismisses that which does not.

I choose to consider both sides of a table before moving it around my living room.

On one side of the table: Government secrecy. On the other: Individual privacy. For some people, the 2nd side still weighs a lot more.

What does this have to do with conspiracy theory?

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Posted (edited)

On one side of the table: Government secrecy. On the other: Individual privacy. For some people, the 2nd side still weighs a lot more.

What does this have to do with conspiracy theory?

That's easy. Some of the respondents based on a clear past history here on UM.

But I won't point fingers. We are all entitled to our opinion, and I think that's just fine.

In fact, I actually respect those who have a strong differing opinion to, say, my own, as opposed to those whom are "wishy-washy"

I know where they stand, they know where I stand, and results in a healthy debate, if followed through maturely of course.

And I think the same type of attitude should extend within Congressional debate over the PRISM program, perhaps even, hopefully, extending to the U.S. Supreme Court to settle this issue once and for all.

Personally, I believe that PRISM is totally legal and much needed. That's my stance.

Edited by pallidin
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Hahahahahaaaaa!!!! Well, if he is lying, I have no idea.

Funny how CT's only consider information that supports their own position, and quickly dismisses that which does not.

I choose to consider all sides of a table before moving it around my living room.

It's not a conspiracy theory.

WASHINGTON (AP) — A member of Congress asks the director of national intelligence if the National Security Agency collects data on millions of Americans. "No, sir," James Clapper responds. Pressed, he adds a caveat: "Not wittingly."

Then, NSA programs that do precisely that are disclosed.

It turns out that President Barack Obama's intelligence chief lied. Or as he put it last week: "I responded in what I thought was the most truthful or least most untruthful manner, by saying, 'No,' because the program was classified."

The White House stands by him. Press secretary Jay Carney says Obama "certainly believes that Director Clapper has been straight and direct in the answers that he's given." Congress, always adept at performing verbal gymnastics, seems generally unmiffed about Clapper's lack of candor. If there have been repercussions, the public doesn't know about them.

Welcome to the intelligence community, a shadowy network of secrets and lies reserved, apparently, not only for this country's enemies but also for its own citizens.

Sometimes it feels as if the government operates in a parallel universe where lying has no consequences and everyone but the people it represents is complicit in deception. Looking at episodes like this, it's unsurprising that people have lost faith in their elected leaders and the institution of government. This all reinforces what polls show people think: Washington plays by its own rules.

Since when is it acceptable for government — elected leaders or those they appoint — to be directly untruthful to Americans? Do people even care about the deception? Or is this kind of behavior expected these days? After all, most politicians parse words, tell half-truths and omit facts. Some lie outright. It's called spin.

Taken from http://news.yahoo.com/column-lying-acceptable-public-loses-071350687.html?.tsrc=emul

Nevertheless, in March — before the programs the senator knew existed had been disclosed to the world — Wyden put Clapper on the spot. The senator asked about the classified intelligence operations, which Clapper was prohibited from talking openly about, in a public committee hearing.

"Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Wyden asked.

"No, sir," Clapper answered.

"It does not?" asked Wyden.

"Not wittingly," Clapper said, offering a more nuanced response. "There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect — but not wittingly."

Three months later, a former NSA contractor leaked information on top-secret surveillance programs that do, in fact, file away phone records on millions of Americans. Wittingly.

That, said Udall, "is the type of surveillance I have long said would shock the public if they knew about it."

Within days, Wyden — who says he gave Clapper a heads up a day earlier that he would be asking the question about classified information at an open hearing — accused Clapper of misleading the Senate committee in public and later in private when the intelligence director declined to change his answer from the firm "no" to the question.

"The American people have the right to expect straight answers from the intelligence leadership to the questions asked by their representatives," Wyden said.

Why do you choose to believe people who are known liars? :no:

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That's easy. Some of the respondents based on a clear past history here on UM.

Who?

But I won't point fingers. We are all entitled to our opinion, and I think that's just fine.

Oh no, you can't have it both ways. The only thing this has to do with conspiracy theory is you pointing your finger. If you can't point fingers then your claim is not only irrelevant it's baseless too.

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It's not a conspiracy theory.

Taken from http://news.yahoo.co...html?.tsrc=emul

Why do you choose to believe people who are known liars? :no:

That's just a "sour bait', and I'm not falling for it.

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Posted (edited)

Who?

Oh no, you can't have it both ways. The only thing this has to do with conspiracy theory is you pointing your finger. If you can't point fingers then your claim is not only irrelevant it's baseless too.

Not at all. I'm simply being respectful of UM guidelines to not engage in personal attack.

Do I really have to "point-out", directly, the CT's I'm talking about? No.

They know full well who they are, and so do I and MANY other's. No need for elaboration.

It's pointless.

I would just like to stay on subject, please.

Edited by pallidin
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Posted (edited)

Lonnie Snowden has a message for his son, Edward Snowdon: "come home and face this," to not "commit treason," and that, "I have faith in our justice system..."

"I hope, I pray and I ask that you will not release any secrets that could constitute treason," Snowden told Fox News, in a message meant for his son's ears. He added: "I sense that you're under much stress [from] what I've read recently, and [ask] that you not succumb to that stress ... and make a bad decision."

Further, Snowden said he would rather see his son return to the U.S. and face the U.S. justice system than stay abroad.

"I would like to see Ed come home and face this. I shared that with the government when I spoke with them. I love my son," he told Fox News' Eric Bolling.

Snowden claimed there are some people who want him to "cross that line and do something that constitutes treason, or they would like to see him disappear." But Snowden said he's sure "that the moment he landed that there would be a line of attorneys waiting to defend him."

*snip*

"I have faith in our justice system applied correctly, absolutely. You know, I would rather my son be a prisoner in the U.S. than a free man in a country that did not have ... the freedoms that are protected" in the U.S., he said.

*snip*

He said he last saw his son on April 4. "We'd gone out to dinner," he said, adding that his son seemed to be carrying a "burden."

EXCLUSIVE: Father of Edward Snowden urges son not to commit 'treason,' to return home

Interesting to note is that Lonnie Snowden said he last saw his son on 4 April and that Edward, "seemed to be carrying a "burden.""

Interesting in that Booz Allen Hamilton released on 11 June that Snowden was fired and had only been with them for less than three months which places his hiring with them no earlier than 11 March.

June 11, 2013

(Updated Information Underlined)

Booz Allen can confirm that Edward Snowden, 29, was an employee of our firm for less than 3 months, assigned to a team in Hawaii.

Booz Allen Statement on Reports of Leaked Information

So if Edward was "burdened" over already committing treason and plans to run then that means he had been on the job less than 3 weeks and had already made that decision then.

Edited by The world needs you

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That's just a "sour bait', and I'm not falling for it.

Wasn't baiting you, at all, actually. Just pointing something out....

Not at all. I'm simply being respectful of UM guidelines to not engage in personal attack.

That's funny, didn't you just call me a "conspiracy theorist"?

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Not at all. I'm simply being respectful of UM guidelines to not engage in personal attack.

Do I really have to "point-out", directly, the CT's I'm talking about? No.

They know full well who they are, and so do I and MANY other's. No need for elaboration.

It's pointless.

I would just like to stay on subject, please.

It was pointless, that's my point. Now back to the subject with you.

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Posted (edited)

Also Snowden lived out of the states for some time and could have been compromised then. He also took a vacation to Hong Kong before, one was a total surprise to his girlfriend, maybe he was there on other business...

In either case all was not perfect in paradise when they returned to Hawaii.

*snip*

It was a heartbreaking turn of events for Mills who had lived with Snowden since at least 2009 when they were in Japan together.

Last year he whisked her 8,000 miles from their home south of Baltimore, Maryland to Hong Kong where family friends thought they got married because it was a 'special place' for them.

*snip*

That month Snowden moved to Hawaii and two months later Mills joined him.

She freely admits that it was to save their relationship as they appear to having been going through a rocky patch that continues after her arrival.

She writes how she seriously considers taking a plane home most days and that she can’t settle down - until July comes.

*snip*

According to the rest of the blog, it was all idyllic until earlier this month, when the darkness returned to their lives.

Writing on June 3, Mills said: ‘While I have been patiently asking the universe for a livelier schedule, I’m not sure I meant for it to dump half a year’s worth of experience in my lap in two weeks time.

‘We’re talking biblical stuff - floods, deceit, loss. Somehow I’ve only managed a few tears amongst all of the madness of May.’

Another revealing aspect of her blog is that Mills seems to share Snowden’s views views on the surveillance society.

Writing on July 4 last year she says that the America she loves is ‘ever-changing’ and that she is in ‘fear it’s straying from the freedom it has always represented’.

She writes: ‘America is still one of the greatest, but she’s falling in my eyes. I hope her people see where she’s going and ask themselves “is this really how I want to live?”.

Another post will be of interest to investigators looking to find out what she knew - a poster in protest against the Stop Online Piracy Act, which is currently being considered by Congress.

If passed SOPA will make copyright rules more strictly enforced to a level which Mills claims is draconian.

On her blog she writes in terms that sound as if they could have been written by Snowden himself.

She writes: ‘Normally I’d be hitting you with a riveting entry about my super hero life, but today I wanted to join others in protest of SOPA.‘

A bill that poses to allow the government to control the very thing you’re reading my blog on — the internet. The way users (people like you and me) share information and ideas freely across the internet would most certainly change.’

She then urged readers to sign a petition and email their Congressional representatives.

*snip*

EXCLUSIVE: The beautiful ballerina girlfriend whistleblower Ed Snowden was set to wed before he left her in Hawaii and fled to Hong Kong to leak NSA secrets. Now she says she feels ‘adrift’

It won't be surprising if she was at all involved. No doubt in time we will know who his handlers were and if there are any others in his ring or if he truly worked alone...

Edited by The world needs you

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Seems to me, some people are so busy trying to discredit Snowden, they have failed to hear his message....So typical. Don't like the message, so they discredit the messenger.....

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Lonnie Snowden has a message for his son, Edward Snowdon: "come home and face this," to not "commit treason," and that, "I have faith in our justice system..."

EXCLUSIVE: Father of Edward Snowden urges son not to commit 'treason,' to return home

Interesting to note is that Lonnie Snowden said he last saw his son on 4 April and that Edward, "seemed to be carrying a "burden.""

Interesting in that Booz Allen Hamilton released on 11 June that Snowden was fired and had only been with them for less than three months which places his hiring with them no earlier than 11 March.

Booz Allen Statement on Reports of Leaked Information

So if Edward was "burdened" over already committing treason and plans to run then that means he had been on the job less than 3 weeks and had already made that decision then.

Wow, that sounds amazingly similar to the public statement made by the Uncle of the Boston brothers, an uncle who happened to be a CIA asset.

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OK, here's just one:

Retired Gen. Michael Hayden, a former NSA director, said on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" that what the agency collects are "essentially billing records" that detail the time, duration and phone numbers involved in a call.

The records are added to a database that agents can query in cases involving a terror investigation overseas, and agents can't eavesdrop on Americans' calls without an order from a secret court that handles intelligence matters, he said.

If a phone number related to an investigation has links to a domestic phone number, "We've got to go back to the court," he said.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

I understand sir. You believe any and all authority figures, no questions asked, no details examined. Yes, I get it.

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I understand sir. You believe any and all authority figures, no questions asked, no details examined. Yes, I get it.

No, I don't.

But what "authority figures" do you believe in, if I might ask.

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