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Raptor Witness

Are you willing to give your life for privacy

Would you be willing to give your life for the privacy of others?   29 members have voted

  1. 1. In terms of what we now know the NSA is doing, would you be willing to give your life for the privacy of others?

    • Yes
      22
    • No
      2
    • I'm afraid to answer this question for fear of becoming a target of the Justice Department
      5

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99 posts in this topic

Actually I don't know if a dictator has every overthrown a democracy with a majority vote. Usually democracies in their rush to be fair make it possible for people to win elections with minorities.

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Well Mantis was not on the level if insinuating that the majority of Americans do not like Obama. Roughly half of the electorate likes him well enough.

If Mantis is further insinuating that that half is just being duped and not informed and voting after honestly comparing both candidates then that is simply a partisan view and not wholly grounded in reality.

Mantis would have to explain.

While Obama did not win with a considerable majority he won with roughly more than half the popular vote and a majority of the electoral college votes (ya we know it is not the same thing, we need to scrap the electoral college.)

Anyone is welcome to like Obama, I'm not suppressing anyone's thought process or falling neatly into any psych theory that you may throw at me, just informing them that there is a big part of the population that doesn't like Obama and even more that are falling out of favor due to all these scandals now coming to light.

Again, I don't insinuate, I come right to the point. A few things I've noticed about Obama supporters is that they automatically come to the conclusion that I supported Romney and McCain to which I did not and that they are persistent in their defense of their hero even after showing them facts, not insinuations.

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Anyone is welcome to like Obama, I'm not suppressing anyone's thought process or falling neatly into any psych theory that you may throw at me, just informing them that there is a big part of the population that doesn't like Obama and even more that are falling out of favor due to all these scandals now coming to light.

Again, I don't insinuate, I come right to the point. A few things I've noticed about Obama supporters is that they automatically come to the conclusion that I supported Romney and McCain to which I did not and that they are persistent in their defense of their hero even after showing them facts, not insinuations.

Unfortunately, people only see what they want to see.... :no:

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Anyone is welcome to like Obama, I'm not suppressing anyone's thought process or falling neatly into any psych theory that you may throw at me, just informing them that there is a big part of the population that doesn't like Obama and even more that are falling out of favor due to all these scandals now coming to light.

Again, I don't insinuate, I come right to the point. A few things I've noticed about Obama supporters is that they automatically come to the conclusion that I supported Romney and McCain to which I did not and that they are persistent in their defense of their hero even after showing them facts, not insinuations.

There is also a big part of the population that does like Obama. Maybe a bigger part that doesn't care either way because all they care about is shopping.

His approval ratings have been in between 40 to 50% consistently. Maybe they slipped from 49 to 47% or from 47 to 45%, maybe ratings are slipping by independents and conservatives, but nothing huge.

The people who dislike Obama are just screaming louder over scandals. Those who like him more or less are not being affected. It was disingenuous to sway your foreign friend to believe a huge amount, if insinuating a vast majority, dislike Obama purely over scandals.

Disingenuous to claim such if one actually understands roughly half of America disapprove and roughly half approve. Nothing has changed really since the last election. It is a cognitive bias if one actually believes the vast majority of the population actually dislikes him over scandals, that just is not true. Look up the polls yourself.

Anecdotal evidence here, which is not as valuable, and as valuable as how any of your friends, family, or colleagues feel, but it too mirrors this. No one here on this forum went from liking Obama to disliking Obama. People love to claim they were on the fence and dislike him now, they don't count as much as those who already were disposed to like or not like him from the get go.

What will ultimately prove the view that a majority are affected by the scandals will be the 2014 election. It will be a choice between the status quo of attempting to make change in the face of obstructionism, or it will issue in more liberal and progressive legislators. Our choice is between that or the Koch brothers. Plenty are not going to switch camps because they know that plays right into big and unregulated business.

The libertarians on the other hand who want to eliminate government either play into the Koch brothers or will have to form another party if they simply do not want to hand over power from the government to big business outright. The conspiracy theorists who see big government and business all teaming up against them, oh well, not a majority share that view at all, but the foreigners can believe what they want, most likely they were being polite and didn't want to argue the point and walked away still believing enough people like Obama to keep the party alive. If anything the Republican part is in danger of becoming extinct and not the other way around.

My view is the cognitive bias of the false consensus effect is in operation among CTers and malcontents if they believe the majority support their deluded and paranoid views.

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Are you willing to Syrianize your country over scandals?

Yes or no?

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Are you willing to Syrianize your country over scandals?

Yes or no?

NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT "SYRIANIZING" OUR COUNTRY! OR REVOLUTION!

Jeez...

:no:

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What exactly is being discussed then besides posting inforwars links and complaining?

Voting? For a party that keeps on telling us stupid things on rape that are not true? Or one that alienates the biggest growing segment of the population? Or one that wants to hand the reigns over to unregulated big business?

It seems most who are anti-Obama are not even in favor of their own party, all we hear is how both big Republicans and Democrats are one and the same and against them. Wild cards like Rand Paul are just their to divide Republicans, they are not a new hope the whole country will unite behind.

But so glad we got that out the way, no revolution is going to happen.

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US Presidents tend to become lame ducks and get bogged down in petty accusations during the last parts of their second term. It happened to Reagan and Bush Two, the last two two-term Presidents. It is one of the weaknesses of a fixed-term system.

I am frankly amazed that Obama does as well in the polls as he does considering the economy is still mired in high unemployment. The idea that he is failing is, however, manifestly absurd.

I don't see any violent opposition to Obama having a whisper of a chance of getting anywhere, and the hotheads should sit down and consider this. I also think much of the opposition to him is closet racism.

The idea that the United States is a "free" country is a myth, and always has been a myth. All countries are governed by ruling elites, generally those of wealth, more or less tightly, and the American political system is clearly rigged in favor of just two parties and the legal profession and wealth. Anyone who thinks otherwise is foolish, but it is even more foolish to think that it would be either possible or good for the population or the country to actually do anything much about it.

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While it is partisan some of us actually favor the hotheads doing what they do, they waste energy in fruitless charges of screaming which could be better put to use.

Trust that we are already canvassing door to door to get out the vote next year. We are calmly taking preventative measures while they angrily focus on conspiracy theories which is reactionary. A bit too late after the fact to do anything.

The sad part is that conspiracy theory and complaint without any balance among the individual cannot be healthy :/ Just glad they are backing off desire to see revolution. That would have only got them locked up and the rest of us siding with our government being glad they removed more "domestic terrorists" off our streets.

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There is also a big part of the population that does like Obama. Maybe a bigger part that doesn't care either way because all they care about is shopping.

His approval ratings have been in between 40 to 50% consistently. Maybe they slipped from 49 to 47% or from 47 to 45%, maybe ratings are slipping by independents and conservatives, but nothing huge.

The people who dislike Obama are just screaming louder over scandals. Those who like him more or less are not being affected. It was disingenuous to sway your foreign friend to believe a huge amount, if insinuating a vast majority, dislike Obama purely over scandals.

Disingenuous to claim such if one actually understands roughly half of America disapprove and roughly half approve. Nothing has changed really since the last election. It is a cognitive bias if one actually believes the vast majority of the population actually dislikes him over scandals, that just is not true. Look up the polls yourself.

Anecdotal evidence here, which is not as valuable, and as valuable as how any of your friends, family, or colleagues feel, but it too mirrors this. No one here on this forum went from liking Obama to disliking Obama. People love to claim they were on the fence and dislike him now, they don't count as much as those who already were disposed to like or not like him from the get go.

What will ultimately prove the view that a majority are affected by the scandals will be the 2014 election. It will be a choice between the status quo of attempting to make change in the face of obstructionism, or it will issue in more liberal and progressive legislators. Our choice is between that or the Koch brothers. Plenty are not going to switch camps because they know that plays right into big and unregulated business.

The libertarians on the other hand who want to eliminate government either play into the Koch brothers or will have to form another party if they simply do not want to hand over power from the government to big business outright. The conspiracy theorists who see big government and business all teaming up against them, oh well, not a majority share that view at all, but the foreigners can believe what they want, most likely they were being polite and didn't want to argue the point and walked away still believing enough people like Obama to keep the party alive. If anything the Republican part is in danger of becoming extinct and not the other way around.

My view is the cognitive bias of the false consensus effect is in operation among CTers and malcontents if they believe the majority support their deluded and paranoid views.

You're reading far more into this than I expected...but since you asked for it...

For one, I didn't sway anyone, I informed them as they were in the "majority" in thinking that Obama is faultless, guiltless and infallible as you say that a "majority" of the US feels the same which couldn't be further from the truth. If that were true, there wouldn't be Black Panthers at voting polls who were backing Obama's campaign, there wouldn't have been a Benghazi or have the DOJ in the news every week for something else Eric Holder has done or not done that he can't recall doing, or IRS targeting the Tea Party or AP wiretapping, or the ever-increasing pressure on gun control, etc... So what you're saying is that I should have played along and let them think happy happy thoughts about Obama because he's so popular and that's the reality of it? Please......

Frank Merton, you bring up a good point in that nothing has been done about the economy and more than likely nothing will be done for another 3 more years but, the racism thing is old and desperate... get over it, I would say more but I don't need to prove anything to you or anybody else.

Also, you want to talk about hotheads and malcontents, you have no idea about my intentions, my thoughts, my beliefs, I personally haven't attacked you but you've made several jabs at me and don't think I didn't notice and I'm not sure what happened to the moderator but I thought we were not supposed to print things in big bold letters... and also, just be aware of this The World Needs You, if you are even here in the US, unless they catch you redhanded with stuff to do heavy damage, labeling a domestic terrorist is a point of view, you may think you have nothing to hide and the NSA will see to that just as Maxine Waters mentioned about the "super database" that this admin has constructed but just make a little wrong statement or action and you may find yourself labeled as a terrorist or on a no-fly list and see how you like that then...

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Posted (edited)

Are you willing to ask dumb, rhetorical questions to get a few likes?...that's what is really important...let's get our priorities straight here...

What a stupid question.

No one is going to answer that truthful...everyone has this ridiculous self image of being some super hero martyr....thing...

Most will cower in their homes and pray for the roof to fall in and take them out...too scared to even kill themselves...much less anyone else.

This generation has been nutted...there is no fight in them....none.

I hope when the bombs fall...I go out in the shockwave...I couldn't bare to see my countrymen and their children cowering like beaten dogs....but that is what you will see.

Sickening...no fight...no fire...no plan....just big talk and low testosterone....

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Are you willing to ask dumb, rhetorical questions to get a few likes?...that's what is really important...let's get our priorities straight here...

What a stupid question.

No one is going to answer that truthful...everyone has this ridiculous self image of being some super hero martyr....thing...

Most will cower in their homes and pray for the roof to fall in and take them out...too scared to even kill themselves...much less anyone else.

This generation has been nutted...there is no fight in them....none.

I hope when the bombs fall...I go out in the shockwave...I couldn't bare to see my countrymen and their children cowering like beaten dogs....but that is what you will see.

Sickening...no fight...no fire...no plan....just big talk and low testosterone....

I answered the question truthfully, with a Yes. I don't want to be a martyr, or some revolutionary, either. But, I sure as hell ain't gonna cower in my house! I hate violence. I believe violence is a last resort, as in self defense. But, I sometimes wonder, if Robespierre wasn't right, when he stated, (paraphrasing) "You can't have revolution without bloodshed"....That's a question we should be asking ourselves, right now I think. Can we have a revolution here, without bloodshed? Is there a more democratic, and better way to reign in our government? Or is the bloodshed inevitable?

I don't know, if you've ever seen the movie "Michael Collins" but, there is one part, where Liam Neeson (Michael Collins) says to his best friend, Adrian Brody, (paraphrasing, forgiven me can't remember the whole thing word for word) Do you think I like putting a gun in so and so's hand? I hate it! But I hate them more (British) not for their race or creed, but because they have FORCED ME into this position. This is our only recourse, and I hate them for it."

Hopefully, and God willing, there is a better solution to all this.

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I dare say if America were to go sour in a Fascist sort of way, it would be the fanatics I see posting here who would lead it.

When all else fails, use ad hominems. Alinsky would be proud.

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Tea Party-types would swing this country hard-right to the likes unseen since the middle of the 20th century.

Let's compare those "types" to the "Occupier types" by examining the contrasts between their protests and rallies. Let's see which group committed more crimes, trashed more property, and used more offensive rhetoric. In the Fantasyland of the Left, it would be the Tea Party. In reality, it would be the Occupiers. We could use more "Tea Party types". A return to the Constitution with less spending and more freedom sounds great right about now. Maybe we'll see their ideas spread across the country as people ignore Obama-worshippers' propaganda in lieu of fair, honest information. Once that starts, all the mud-slinging in the world won't stop its progress.

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Don't like occupier types myself. Not picking either side in that. We have more choices than Tea Party and Occupy.

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Yes you could still vote Communist. I think (someone tell me if I'm wrong) the party still exists in the States.

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Posted (edited)

Don't like occupier types myself. Not picking either side in that. We have more choices than Tea Party and Occupy.

Why dont you enlighten us on all the good things he has done for this nation that has you so entrenched in his corner. And before you bother to bring up how many Americans are in love with him based on his 50%+ popular vote, take a good hard look at the county maps across this nation.

Obama won virtually EVERY single county in every single state where massive groups of people were all compacted into urban areas.

Obama won the welfare Vote is what he won.

My state, a red state, lost each of the counties where we have the highest welfare payouts.

Obama is President simply because he gives things to people.

GOP doesnt stand a chance as long as they continue to preach nasty things like Personal responsibility and a good work ethic.

Now, about those "Good" things......

Edited by Saru
Removed personal attack

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The votes are heavily leaning towards more freedom, I'm glad to see.

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The votes are heavily leaning towards more freedom, I'm glad to see.

So Am I! :tsu:

Great article on Forbes today:

NSA Surveillance May Have Dealt Major Blow To Global Internet Freedom Efforts

The internet has never been a perfect tool for advancing democracy and human rights.

Despite the most optimistic techno-utopian projections, the internet has yet to set us free and rid the world of dictators. Critics have been right to warn us of the dangers of a single-minded approach — we should be careful not to overlook the deep historical, economic, and cultural factors that shape the world we live in today. At the same time, it is true that the internet has revolutionized the way we are able to connect with each other. We are no longer limited to our culture and geography, we can now unite around shared interests and values.

As the internet has grown in usage and importance in our daily lives, so too has the difficulty of keeping it “free” from censorship and control. This struggle was important enough to 29-year-old former Booz Allen employee Edward Snowden for him to give up his life, career, and freedom to leak a historic amount of classified information about the shocking size and depth of the American surveillance state. The fallout is just beginning – and as of now, there are far more questions than answers.

One thing has become clear though: the credibility of the idea that the internet can be a positive, freedom-promoting global force is facing its largest challenge to date. And it comes directly from one of its most outspoken supporters: the US government.

Simply put, the US government has failed in its role as the “caretaker” of the internet. Although this was never an official designation, America controls much of the infrastructure, and many of the most popular services online are provided by a handful of American companies. The world is starting to sober up to the fact that much of what they’ve done online in the last decade is now cataloged in a top-secret facility somewhere in the United States.

From: http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarunwadhwa/2013/06/13/with-nsa-surveillance-us-government-may-have-dealt-major-blow-to-global-internet-freedom-efforts/

My favorite part was this little tidbit here:

In trying to reassure the public, our leaders have told us that these programs are not meant to target us, but instead, foreigners who may pose a threat to our security. But this is merely a decision on how the data is being used today – we are getting into very dangerous territory by hoping for the best intentions of whoever is in power in the future. American history holds many lessons for us here: circumstances can change, the perception of who is a threat can vary with whoever is in office, and we cannot predict what our political situation will look like decades, or even years, from now.

In the court of global public opinion, America may have tarnished its moral authority to question the surveillance practices of other nations – whether it be Russia on monitoring journalists, or China on conducting cyber espionage. Declarations by the State Department that were once statements of principle now ring hollow and hypocritical to some. No nation can rival the American surveillance state, but they no longer need support to build their own massive systems of espionage and oppression.

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Don't like occupier types myself. Not picking either side in that. We have more choices than Tea Party and Occupy.

I agree with that. Both groups make good points, but I wholeheartedly support the Tea Party. I say that with no hesitation or reservations. They represent my views extremely well.

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So Am I! :tsu:

Great article on Forbes today:

From: http://www.forbes.co...reedom-efforts/

My favorite part was this little tidbit here:

I'm not certain that the US has any moral authority to lose. It seems to me that for a variety of reasons, the government has not been in possession of moral authority for quite a few years now, perhaps decades.

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Id like to take my yes vote back. This guy obviously wasted his life for nothing. Whats the point if no one is going to do anything?

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Id like to take my yes vote back. This guy obviously wasted his life for nothing. Whats the point if no one is going to do anything?

He is standing for principle, nothing more. Standing for what's right, over what's wrong. His conscience is clean.

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