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shrooma

US considering syrian 'no fly zone'

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Posted (edited)

Great points guys.

@bee who is writing Tony Blair's talking points anyways? It seems he is just an actor and not the scriptwriter much less the director.

In other news the US No Fly Zone is now a no go and won't be happening after all.

Obama and his red line should be applied to both parties. Rebels crossed the red line with their own gas attack long enough ago to realize all is not fair in love and war but not so long ago to forget such a disparity.

Which ally already gave the rebels the chem weap capability? That is what I'd like to know...

Someone fill me in if there is no proof of rebels using sarin? If there is why is it being glossed over?

Anyways NATO will not act or bomb without Russian agreement. Too many Russian workers on the ground in Syria. We are not willing to risk bombing them via collateral damage now. A few natives dying in a village is one thing but Russian citizens dying under drone or bomb strikes is quite another.

Another question is how much will NATO pay or offer in concessions to Russia to get her to agree to do in Assad. We are not moving without their accord. Too risky to draw Russia in by creating casualties that have Russian citizenship. We will have to make it worth their time to pull out their private contractors and abandon their interests in Syria.

In any case when Russia withdraws is citizens or moves them to port then watch for the bombs to fall soon after. That might also signal the true end of the Cold War, now just a cool or even lukewarm one, and the beginning of a new world order aka cooperation instead of competition between America-Europe-Russia-and-China aka global north vs global south instead of east vs west...

Edited by The world needs you
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In other news the US No Fly Zone is now a no go and won't be happening after all.

Have you got a link to that news pls?

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Posted (edited)

Have you got a link to that news pls?

For some reason the Western media is not fully reporting that decision or the opinions that it would be a violation of international law.

In my opinion the US was just mentioning it as a ploy of some sort. It does signal they are going to become more involved but not this way perhaps.

Whatever the case this is between NATO and Russia and it could have been a way to pressure Russia in which case they did not publicly react except to call it on its legality.

My forecast is that since this seems to be about stopping a competing Russian-Iranian-Syrian pipeline against the already established Turkey-Israel pipeline, that somehow NATO members and Russia will come to some agreement to allow the pipeline to continue but cutting in the NATO members on the deal so that Russia cannot again hold Europe hostage by cutting off the supplies as they did a few years ago in the middle of winter.

In the end America or Europe has no hardcore interests in Syria to protect—just an interest in stopping the competing pipeline from being built. If Russia and NATO members can strike a deal we might see the beginning of the end for this little Syrian destabilization effort of ours. Russia is going to have to get heavy concessions but likewise give some of the new pipeline profits up or full control, possibly redirecting is to portions of it pass through our allied borders.

Russia cannot be happy over this Syrian meddling we have done, just as Europe was not happy with them cutting off supplies midwinter, but we are going to have to work with them in the end and they wish us.

We can call the score even now, sorry Syria had to suffer so much. Of course this is the optimal view which might not kick in until the dust has settled which could be after the next G8 meeting, or two years, or ten years from now...que in another Syrian sigh.

No Fly Zone a no go even if McCain and the State Dept. are casting doubts on that being definitive

McCain & Co. might be posturing for the internal domestic debate but the message seems clear from the WH

Johannesburg: United States government has declined mounting 'no-fly zone' in Syria and said that it is difficult, dangerous and costly and will not be correct for halting close quarters ground battles.

The statement has come after US officials had vowed to bolster military aid to the Syrian rebels and were expected to send some arms for the first time, News 24 reports.

Deputy national security advisor Ben Rhodes admitted that vaulting a 'no-fly zone' in Syria will bring several logistical and strategic challenges along and will make the defence even tougher as Syria does not possess a strong air defence system such as that in Libya.

Rhodes further claimed that certain rebels and forces had been fighting 'block by block in cities' with Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime in a bid to make targeting particular forces difficult, adding that strategic approaches such as 'no-fly zone' will not stop an intense sectarian conflict, although Washington is not ruling out options.

The advisor also said that US is not promoting its national interest in pursuing an open-ended military engagement through a no-fly zone in Syria. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki has however rejected reports that a 'no-fly zone' had been decided upon, though he said that US President Barack Obama can still consider the option.

*snip*

From Zee News in India: White House rules out 'no-fly zone' in Syria

WASHINGTON: The White House on Friday all but ruled out the notion of mounting a no-fly zone in Syria, billing it as difficult, dangerous and costly, and unsuitable to halting close quarters ground battles.

A day after US officials pledged to stiffen military help to Syrian rebels, likely moving towards sending some form of arms for the first time, they made it clear that swift US mission creep in the country is not on the cards.

Deputy national security advisor Ben Rhodes said mounting a no-fly zone in Syria poses significant logistical and strategic challenges that are more acute than those faced by Nato and Arab League allies in Libya in 2011.

“It’s dramatically more difficult and dangerous and costly in Syria, for a variety of reasons,” Rhodes said.

“One is that in Libya, you already had a situation where the opposition controlled huge portions of the country and you could essentially protect those portions of the country from the air.

“You do not have the same types of air defense system that exist within Syria. So in that regard, it’s more difficult.”

Rhodes also argued that in many cases, rebels and forces fighting with Bashar al-Assad’s Syrian regime were “fighting in some instances block by block in cities” in a way that made targeting particular forces difficult.

“I think people need to understand that the no-fly zone is not some type of silver bullet that is going to stop a very intense and, in some respect, sectarian conflict,” Rhodes said, stressing though that Washington was not ruling out options, some strategic approaches would not work.

“We don’t at this point believe that the US has a national interest in pursuing a very intense, open-ended military engagement through a no-fly zone in Syria at this juncture.”

US ambassador to the UN Susan Rice took a similar tack when asked about a possible no-fly zone in New York.

“That option has some downsides and limitations that we are very well aware of and will factor into any decision,” said Rice, who will next month take over as Obama’s National Security Advisor at the White House.

Domestic opponents of the White House have demanded that Obama set up a no-fly zone in Syria to protect refugees and rebels from air strikes.

Republican Senator John McCain said Thursday that the United States should be able to set up a no-fly zone “fairly easily,”

*snip*

From the Borneo Post: US shoots down Syria ‘no fly zone’ idea


The reasons why it is a no go: costly and ineffective to defend soft interests alone when we have no hard interests on the ground

(Reuters) - The White House said on Friday it would be dramatically more difficult and costly to set up a no-fly zone over Syria than it was in Libya, stressing that the United States does not have a national interest in pursuing that option.

"We feel like the best course of action is to try to strengthen a moderate opposition," Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes told a news briefing.

He said the United States did not want to send U.S. troops - or "boots on the ground" - to Syria and said enforcing a no-fly zone over the country could require intense, open-ended U.S. military engagement.

Additional reading:

And a No Fly Zone would be illegal at least according to Russia...

London: The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, has said that any attempt to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria using US fighter jets and Patriot missiles from Jordan would violate international law.

Lavrov’s comments on Saturday underline the challenge facing the US at the G8 summit next week where the White House hopes to get international support for further intervention in Syria.

Russia, which has protected President Bashar Al Assad from three UN security council resolutions aimed at pressuring him to end the violence, vehemently opposes any foreign military intervention in the conflict.

“There have been leaks from western media regarding the serious consideration to create a no-fly zone over Syria through the deployment of Patriot anti-aircraft missiles and F-16 jets in Jordan,” Lavrov said. “You don’t have to be a great expert to understand that this will violate international law.”

From Gulf News in the United Arab Emirates:

No-fly zone over Syria ‘will violate international law’

Additional reading:

Edited by The world needs you
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I watch the news of the mid east and especially the Russians movements of its fleets and bombs. To think they sent their fleet to Cyprus, or part of it anyway for the first time in what, 20 years (or 30 cant remember) is "pay attention" time to those who are getting involved. So they say they will help and protect Syria, and return bombs like for like, which of course is a hint about nukes.

And this doesn't put off the UK and US from jumping in? Could this year see a real cards on the table time confrontation? A massive war with Russia getting well involved? It doesn't bode well, but the news has become morbidly fascinating with all the players potentially involved.

Personally, it sickens me that my country, the UK, feels its OK to go arm what they call the rebels - who in another situation would be branded terrorists, which is after all what they rightly are.

Anyone else think it will seriously kick off?

All rebels are and have been terriosts. Because they cannot stand up in a standerd fight with the government forces.

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All rebels are and have been terriosts. Because they cannot stand up in a standerd fight with the government forces.

Hezbollah are terrorists too

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All rebels are and have been terriosts. Because they cannot stand up in a standerd fight with the government forces.

Does that include the War of Independence?

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Just read that Iran is sending 4000 troops to Syria....

Iran will send 4,000 troops to aid Bashar al-Assad’s forces in Syria

World Exclusive: US urges Britain and France to join in supplying arms to Syrian rebels as MPs fear that UK will be drawn into growing Sunni-Shia conflict

Washington’s decision to arm Syria’s Sunni Muslim rebels has plunged America into the great Sunni-Shia conflict of the Islamic Middle East, entering a struggle that now dwarfs the Arab revolutions which overthrew dictatorships across the region.

For the first time, all of America’s ‘friends’ in the region are Sunni Muslims and all of its enemies are Shiites. Breaking all President Barack Obama’s rules of disengagement, the US is now fully engaged on the side of armed groups which include the most extreme Sunni Islamist movements in the Middle East.

The Independent on Sunday has learned that a military decision has been taken in Iran – even before last week’s presidential election – to send a first contingent of 4,000 Iranian Revolutionary Guards to Syria to support President Bashar al-Assad’s forces against the largely Sunni rebellion that has cost almost 100,000 lives in just over two years.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-will-send-4000-troops-to-aid-bashar-alassads-forces-in-syria-8660358.html

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US urges Britain and France to join in supplying arms to Syrian rebels

.

what the hell's FRANCE gonna be sending over, corkscrews & cheeswire?!

hassad must be s**tting himself.

.

still, those french flags might come in handy if the syrians are in need of some.., ahem..., white table linen.....

:-)

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Note the artocle said: "The Independent on Sunday has learned that a military decision has been taken in Iran – even before last week’s presidential election – to send a first contingent of 4,000

First contingent? Would that imply more later?

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Posted (edited)

sure would seeder!

and the fact they promised 'em before the election, and the FNG's still gonna send 'em means they're committed at least!

*cue bloodbath*

Edited by shrooma
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sure would seeder!

and the fact they promised 'em before the election, and the FNG's still gonna send 'em means they're committed at least!

*cue bloodbath*

yep its defo getting interesting now... funny enough Ive not heard much Israeli news of late, either Im not reading enough or they have been quiet lately

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Anyone else think it will seriously kick off?

Don't know but it's not looking good....

http://www.guardian....ties-with-Syria

Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi waves to supporters as he attends a Syria solidarity conference organised by the Muslim Brotherhood in Cairo. Photograph: EPA

Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi said he had cut all diplomatic ties with Damascus on Saturday and called for a no-fly zone over Syria, pitching the most populous Arab state firmly against Bashar al-Assad.

[snip]

The crowd of his supporters chanted: "From the free revolutionaries of Egypt: we will stamp on you, Bashar!"

[snip]

Morsi said: "The Egyptian people supports the struggle of the Syrian people, materially and morally, and Egypt, its nation, leadership … and army, will not abandon the Syrian people until it achieves its rights and dignity."

Egypt has not taken an active role in arming the Syrian rebels but an aide to Morsi said this week that Cairo would not stand in the way of Egyptians who wanted to fight in Syria.

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Does that include the War of Independence?

Yes, the rebels hid behind trees and bushes. While the british tried to fight old world style. The only difference between the two time periods, is the americans did not attack civilians, the british did, accordihng to thhe movie, the patriot.

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Well, the wheel will have come full circle, won't it, considering the origins of Al Q in the gallant Mujahideen fighting the Russkies.

That was the original sin.... Reagan arming the Jihadis so that they could take on the Russkis and put Afghan women back under burkha.

And since then, Western politicians of all stripes have been repeating the same mistake.

Now again in Syria.

Will they ever learn? I am not holding my breath.

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.

what the hell's FRANCE gonna be sending over, corkscrews & cheeswire?!

hassad must be s**tting himself.

.

still, those french flags might come in handy if the syrians are in need of some.., ahem..., white table linen.....

:-)

These might be quite tasty.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leclerc

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Big rally, demonstration at Whitehall right now.... Putin should be arriving for talks at No10!! Oddly not much in the news.. but its on sky news live

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Odd, I dreamt about Putin last night, and had no knowledge of him visiting anywhere. It was all about how he didn't travel much.

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No-fly zones are ideal for Western countries who have no problem getting control of the air. I wonder where they will base their operations.

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Posted (edited)

Odd, I dreamt about Putin last night, and had no knowledge of him visiting anywhere. It was all about how he didn't travel much.

BBC website Putin meet Cameron

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22924799

anyway heres a live link from outside No 10

http://news.sky.com/...ates/watch-live

Edited by seeder
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No-fly zones are ideal for Western countries who have no problem getting control of the air. I wonder where they will base their operations.

Cyprus would be my guess

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Big rally, demonstration at Whitehall right now.... Putin should be arriving for talks at No10!! Oddly not much in the news.. but its on sky news live

thanks just turned sky news on. The rally at Whitehall is against the Turkish Government...and Putin and Cameron are going to talk to the press

within the hour!

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thanks just turned sky news on. The rally at Whitehall is against the Turkish Government...and Putin and Cameron are going to talk to the press

within the hour!

So why are they protesting in Whitehall? Are they all Turkish? Why are they inconveniencing everyone with their protests here?

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So why are they protesting in Whitehall? Are they all Turkish? Why are they inconveniencing everyone with their protests here?

Maybe just to get T.V coverage, if not why don't they protest at the Turkish embassy?

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So why are they protesting in Whitehall? Are they all Turkish? Why are they inconveniencing everyone with their protests here?

I don't know.....it was Turkish people protesting about the Turkish Govt....it's chaos in Istanbul and another major city...

water cannon, chucking that CS gas around.....riot squads chasing protesters around the streets.

It started about the park...but it's widened to protesting about the Islamification of Turkey. (from what I can gather)

Re the Cameron Putin news conference...lots of talk about common ground but no budging from either about Syria.

Putin even brought up the rebel eating the organs of one of the Syrian army....and posing the question about if it's

a good idea to support such people.

Cameron blaming everything on Assad....and making a point of saying...'genuine' Syrian rebels...

Though what he thinks the terrorist lot...the Al Qaeda lot are going to do....is any one's guess.

Just go home and say.....we'll leave it to you moderates now......those are lovely weapons you got there....good luck and goodbye... :no:

.

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Both leaders want change in order to help the Syrian people. Maybe Putin will put pressure on Assad when the rebels and the fighting stops

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