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Perfection

Big Bang=Death

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The notion that all things are simply the result of elements from a Big Bang means that 'we too, in every aspect, are simply elements & everything we do is an elemental reaction with no random dimensions & therefore perfectly arranged; This means that what we view as "Life" is not life at all. It cannot be life if it is just elements. Correct me if i'm wrong

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the old adage that 'the sum of the whole is greater than its parts' would seem to apply.....

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Well take a look at life and you'll see very few things are 'perfectly arranged'. But why does it matter, just do what you have to, and do what you want to. It is only general assumption, but it seems your outlook is more on the pessimistic side...

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the old adage that 'the sum of the whole is greater than its parts' would seem to apply.....

Indeed. The reductionist has a very hard time recognizing transcendence.

You cannot know Somone while looking through a microscope at a bacteria in their Colon.

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You cannot know Somone while looking through a microscope at a bacteria in their Colon.

.

i'd hope that if someone had stuck a microscope up your jacksie Seeker, you'd know them VERY well!!

(at least well enough to forgive them their curiosity....)

:-)

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We are the result of massive super Novas. We are star stuff. Personally I think it is pretty cool. How do you know the Big Bang wasn't the Big Birth and everything is alive.

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How do you know the Big Bang wasn't the Big Birth and everything is alive.

Brilliant! We'll call her "The Big Momma" instead of the "Big Bang"

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How do you know the Big Bang wasn't the Big Birth and everything is alive.

.

we, are the universe's way of thinking about the universe.

if the universe were any different, even slightly, we wouldn't exist, and neither would it. the universe HAS to be the way it is for BOTH of us to exist.

we know it, and because we're the universe's way of thinking about the universe, IT knows it too!

:-)

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As Above, So Below, Shrooma. And a whole bunch of fun between.

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As Above, So Below, Shrooma. And a whole bunch of fun between.

.

fun, it's what seperates us from the

catholics.

:-)

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That be true. :lol:

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The notion that all things are simply the result of elements from a Big Bang means that 'we too, in every aspect, are simply elements & everything we do is an elemental reaction with no random dimensions & therefore perfectly arranged; This means that what we view as "Life" is not life at all. It cannot be life if it is just elements. Correct me if i'm wrong

Ok then, you are wrong.. Elements come together and life is born ..

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Elements come together and life is born

Yes & so 'life is just a natural reaction of elements & nothing more. Our awareness & consciousness is simply part of the reaction & will end with death.

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Yes & so 'life is just a natural reaction of elements & nothing more. Our awareness & consciousness is simply part of the reaction & will end with death.

And that's stating the obvious lol :D

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And that's stating the obvious

I know, & what a narrow theory it is, 'considering the infinite number of spiritual type things humanity experiences that must subsequently be labelled as tricks of the elements & their reactions.

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I know, & what a narrow theory it is, 'considering the infinite number of spiritual type things humanity experiences that must subsequently be labelled as tricks of the elements & their reactions.

Spiritual is arbitrary.
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I think the OP has a good feel but is approaching the issue at the wrong place. Life is just complex chemistry that has the property of making copies of itself. There is nothing mysterious beyond its wild complexity, and nothing here to complain to the reductionist about.

There are perhaps two, maybe three, other points where reductionism does appear to fail. The first is in understanding or "explaining" qualia -- sensate existence where beings experience rather than just exist in the world.

The second is that standby, human consciousness and the phenomena that go with it -- humor, awe, love, beauty, compassion, logic, and so on.

The possible third is the workings of aspects of human society -- politics and law and economics and so on.

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yes we're assuming that feelings & thought are an aspect of life but they could simply be part of the chemical reaction of the elements. Your very mind could be simply a bundle of elements doing exactly what the universe makes them do. This would explain coincidences where things meet in time & space in a way that is too perfect to explain & yet obviously random from the human understanding of the way things happen. Elements reacting with each other could explain every single aspect of life in all its mystery & completely disintegrate the illusion that man has a free spirit possessed of free will. Therefore without a spirit he is dead & simply a chemical process running its course.

The notion that elements come together & life is born is exactly what the big bang theory is trying to put forwards & is exactly what I was trying to say in the op; & it means that life is simply dead elements & nothing more

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life.

it's what seperates us from the

rocks.

(i think you may be confusing 'life' with 'consciousness' OP.....)

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Yes but we may be created from elements in the rocks.

On a side note if we are simply elements & therefore mistake ourselves for life then when God said "I Am" it means he was saying "We Ain't". In other words God is life & we ain't.

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The notion that elements come together & life is born is exactly what the big bang theory is trying to put forwards & is exactly what I was trying to say in the op; & it means that life is simply dead elements & nothing more

I agree with you, as this seems the most logical view of existence. However, part of me considers the possibility of the existence of something transcendental.

If the existence of a "spiritual realm" were true, wouldn't it have to have been created at the big bang as well? Would this "spiritual realm" therefore be limited to our universe, and not be some infinite spirituality? Perhaps (if it exists at all) it coexists with and within our physical universe.

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Yes but we may be created from elements in the rocks.

.

that's EXACTLY what we are Perf. the minerals that make rocks, calcium, oxygen, iron, zinc, etc. are the same minerals that make US, just in different compositions!

just that we're alive & rocks (apart from the ones kept as pets!) aren't.

.

On a side note if we are simply elements & therefore mistake ourselves for life then when God said "I Am" it means he was saying "We Ain't". In other words God is life & we ain't.

.

not being religious, i'm not really qualified to comment on your argument, not knowing enough to make an accurate assumption, but if I were to, i'd say that god was saying 'i am' but that 'we are' too!

you gotta admit that we're (MOST of us!) more alive than rocks, but AS 'alive' as god, then those of a religious bent would more than likely say 'probably not'.

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Yes but we may be created from elements in the rocks.

On a side note if we are simply elements & therefore mistake ourselves for life then when God said "I Am" it means he was saying "We Ain't". In other words God is life & we ain't.

Then you clearly aren't talking of biological life.

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I agree with you, as this seems the most logical view of existence. However, part of me considers the possibility of the existence of something transcendental.

If the existence of a "spiritual realm" were true, wouldn't it have to have been created at the big bang as well? Would this "spiritual realm" therefore be limited to our universe, and not be some infinite spirituality? Perhaps (if it exists at all) it coexists with and within our physical universe.

Not at all. There is not a shred of evidence ( that I can find) that the vacuum itself was created during the BB. If this is the case, then Indeed there could be many BB and dimensions would be much older than this universe. A spirit realm can have other possibilities of its origins other than dimensionality aswell. It's certainly possible that a spirit realm is actually different physical dimensions, but it's equally possible that a spirit realm is a higher context of existence containing this particular reality. A VR game in a computer can be considered a realm while tge "real" world woukd be a higher context world not unlike Tron. Another possability.. Consider the Internet. When I was a kid, I played this role playing game called shadow run. A certain kind of character had the ability to hack into what was basically the Internet, but experience it through his conciousness. As such it was a world of its own. Security programs could be dragons that the hacker had to slay, or complete living programs with a concious life of there own traveling through the networks. It's why we call it cyber SPACE. The premis for the movie the matrix actually.

Minds may simply resonate with other minds. Conciousness being a particular vibration of harmonizing energy, in such the spirit world would be how we experience a network of minds.

Or the spirit world may just be the mental space of a much larger being, we might call it god, but it dosnt have to be. This universe may just be a molecule in a much larger reality. If some sort of concious program evolves in cyberspace I suspect it will view this world as another realm. Im inclined to speculate that this may be the case with us aswell. I don't know. There are a lot of possibilities for the nature of the spirit world including ones we probably simply cannot understand.

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Not at all. There is not a shred of evidence ( that I can find) that the vacuum itself was created during the BB. If this is the case, then Indeed there could be many BB and dimensions would be much older than this universe.

I agree with your post. I had included in the original draft of my post something similar to what you are saying, but edited it out for simplicity (or I was too sleepy at the time to write it out properly). You explain all this better than I could have, at any rate.

I'm not entirely convinced of all this spirit realm stuff, but I've had some experiences that would be difficult to explain from a totally materialistic existence.

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