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prometheuslocke

True Democracy, we need a renovation.

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Posted (edited)

The People's Democratic Party

I am writing to share an idea with you, it is an idea of re-empowerment and the channeling of our collective disillusionment towards a happier, healthier world in the most direct means possible. This idea is simple, the kind of simplicity that just might be able to actually divert our country and civilization from its current path, which appears to be moving in retrograde towards a world where one day in the not so far future, we may see another slave rebellion as in the days of Spartacus. The idea is to give control of this government of the people back to the people, for the first time ever. Today, we have the technology and the ability to actually place the weight of government on all the people, and to ensure that it is their will that is manifested in the machinations of our Constitutional republic. Gone are the days of unanswered letters to Congressman and a body of legislators who purport to know what their constituents need despite what the want. For a long time, we have had the ability to place the oversight and creation of law in the hands of the people, and it is long past the time that we seize and utilize this opportunity to increase the efficiency of self governance that began in 1776.

Three hundred years ago John Locke evaluated government, and through Jefferson his ideology was ingrained not only in the United States, but also more importantly in America. Our collective love of freedom in all forms, in all places, at all times has served to instill a sense of pride in the realization of shedding the shackles of tyranny, injustice, and slavery that have plagued our history since the inception of civilization. Until recently, the United States has moved slowly but surely towards a system of governance that every man, woman, and child would be proud to be a participant in. In the last several decades, this wave has receded, leaving most observers in disbelief or denial; be assured, as the tide falls back past the sunset the system that had worked so well has fallen to the consolidation of power in the few, and an ingrained lack of respect in the people's ability to knowwhat it is they need. We, the people, do now and have always known what it is that we need—that is the reason we have the government we do, and it is the reason this party's success is guaranteed.

We seek to tear down the border between the intent of the voter and the action of the legislature—to create a more perfect government without violence, revolution, nor the consent of the few. Today, the will of the majority can prevail.. no longer will corporate interest override righteousness, but rather be bound by it. Today we present an Idea to you, and Idea that is worth voting for on its own merit, and one that will change the fate of humanity as we know it.

Over the course of the last hundred years, our society and technology have evolved to increase our ability to truly live up to the spirit of the Constitution, and allow the people's voice not only to be heard but also to be given the respect and authority a true democracy demands. We must change this system which caters to the desires of the few, by design, to the lobby and campaign funding mechanisms of large corporate interests created by the continued use of an antiquated system of representative government that has left the will of the people behind.

We do not require a revolution, or even a Constitutional Amendment to begin to turn the tide back towards a system of equality; we need to create a People's Democratic Party. Gone will be the days of lawmakers who systematically violate their oath to uphold the Constitution in secret; of destroying freedom and liberty in favor of false security and overt corporate imperialism around the globe. Today, we begin seizing the power of the United States of America and handing control back to the people who it, by design, belonged to from the beginning.

The People's Democratic Party will create a public and transparent electronic voting mechanism, and allow the whole of the citizenry of the United States of America to vote for every single bill that passes through Congress. Representatives and Senators elected to office will be bound by a newcontract with the people to not only listen but act based on this vote—thereby transferring power from the corrupt few to the people. In the 2014 election, these candidates will campaign on an idea, that their individual beliefs are irrelevant, in favor of the idea that they should act as true representatives and servants of the people and their collective will. All elected members of the Party will vote in unison as dictated by popular national vote, and begin providing a mechanism for true democracy to be realized within the flawed and antiquated system of representative democracy we currently have.

This is a simple idea, yet one powerful enough to right a sinking ship—to return our great country to a path of increasing freedom and the power of the individual—the people rather than corporations and secret interests will once again control the decisions and fate of America.

Proposal:

1. Create a contract for representatives to agree to, one which dictates that they will without fail vote in accordance with a popular vote of the Party, one which will be open to the entire citizenry of the United States of America regardless of party affiliation.

2. Create a mechanism to hold this vote, one which is open and transparent, so that each and every individual can ensure that their vote is correct and counted. This vote will be a national popular vote, to reflect the will of the people of the country as a whole.

3. Run in as many jurisdictions as possible, in the 2014 election; under a new party label dedicated to ensuring and expanding the democratic process.

4. A reddit.com style party run site for discussion of Congressional bills.

(to be updated).

Please comment on the idea, we are interested in hearing your opinion, as well as ideas on structure and implementation. It's time to retake control of the republic.

- www.renovateamericanow.org

Edited by prometheuslocke
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Posted (edited)

I'm not a US citizen but I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in. Apart for a more structured voting system, which I agree with, the other main point was,

candidates will campaign on an idea, that their individual beliefs are irrelevant, in favor of the idea that they should act as true representatives and servants of the people and their collective will.

This, IMO is an insurmountable probability in today's world and, for that matter, it's evident in our human history. The reason? Human greed, too much self interest and diversity in the world. Can us humans ever agree on a collective will? Not sure but, it sounds like a lot of wishful thinking.

I read this quote once,

You can put a tuxedo on a pig but it's still going to look for a mudhole.

Doesn't matter how much you dress up the proposal, we're still going to head for the mudhole....

Edited by Black Red Devil
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We are well on our way to a complete overhaul of our political system. Once we legalize the 11 million illegal immigrants, they will import their 30 million family members and Obama's plans for total control will be in place. Wall street, businesses and their employees will be the minority and regulated for the benefit of the majority; those that milk the system with minimal contribution to society and humanity as a whole. The Republican party is almost dead because the President and his media have successfully labeled republicans as heartless, hateful, racist and bigots. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Obama has ignored our constitution as seen by his side kick Eric Holder, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. His mantra of "reward your friends and punish your enemies" is coming to pass as seen by the IRS targeting the Tea Party, Constitutional education groups, Religious groups and anybody voicing opposition to his agenda. It is now ok to guard polling stations with uniformed armed thugs and allow anyone to vote without any proof of ID of any kind. The writing is on the wall and the policies are in place. Hillary will finalize the extinction of the republican party and begin a "real democracy". Even Supreme court justice Ruth Ginsberg said that any country trying to form a new constitution should "NOT" use our constitution as their example. We are on the verge of the tipping point where you will be deemed by the government as to whether you are the enemy or a friend. This decision will be determined by the words that you post on social media and/or the content of your emails and phone calls. Big Brother is about to become a reality. Say something against the democrats and you disappear.

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I'm not an American either but I am a member of UM.

It sounds like you're a member or founder of "www.renovateamericanow.org" and using this site as a platform. That's a no-no.

If not, you should make the distinction!

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Wow, just wow. You want to turn the decision making over to low-information voters? Really? Can't believe that you think that the folks that keep re-electing the incumbants, even though Congressional approval rating is in the mid 20s, are the ones who should decide everything. Thanks, but no.

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Wow, just wow. You want to turn the decision making over to low-information voters? Really? Can't believe that you think that the folks that keep re-electing the incumbants, even though Congressional approval rating is in the mid 20s, are the ones who should decide everything. Thanks, but no.

So, who do you want to take the decisions? The "elite"? Don't need to change anything then.

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1. Create a contract for representatives to agree to, one which dictates that they will without fail vote in accordance with a popular vote of the Party, one which will be open to the entire citizenry of the United States of America regardless of party affiliation.

2. Create a mechanism to hold this vote, one which is open and transparent, so that each and every individual can ensure that their vote is correct and counted. This vote will be a national popular vote, to reflect the will of the people of the country as a whole.

If I understand the concept, whenever there is a Bill up for a vote in either the House of Representatives or the Senate, there will be some sort of national referendum for all people in the U.S., no matter their party affiliation. If the majority of the people approve the Bill, candidates from this party who serve either in the House of Representatives or the Senate will vote in accordance with the majority vote of the referendum.

If my understanding of your proposal is correct, I do not like the idea at all. The United States is not composed of a monolithic group of people. Of great importance are regional differences, with, for example, people in industrialized areas of the United States having different desires and concerns from people living in more rural parts of the United States. By what you propose, there is no one to speak up for the minorities (whether race, gender, religion, or regional concerns). Rather, the areas with the most dense population will control what gets passed and what does not get passed by Congress.

The Constitution does not envision that any particular member of the House of Representatives represents the people of the United States as a whole. Rather, that person represents his constituants and their concerns and needs. Your idea would destroy that form of representation and, by the way, as soon as any District is harmed by the majority vote on the representative, he or she will be kicked out of office in the next election when those people see that their Representative or Senator voted against their interests.

It's a bad idea which I will not support.

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Posted (edited)

Here too many things get thrown in one pot, and I don't know if for ignorance of the system of government or on purpose. In theory all elected office holders already represent a part of the institutions. In theory the House represents the interests of the states and Congress the interests of the constituents of the voting districts. If any state changes its laws in such a fashion that a senator has to call home first to ask what his state wants that will be up to the state. They can change their electoral laws accordingly.

As far as the districts, that would require a major overhaul of the system.

Much more effective will be to not vote for the same Ghost-Train-Brake-(Wo)Men every time. As long as it is still done people don't want any change.

Edited by questionmark

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So, who do you want to take the decisions? The "elite"? Don't need to change anything then.

I would prefer them to "the great unwashed masses". I have no problem with the idea of representative democracy. We elect people to represent us. The problem, as I see it, is that we keep re-electing the same people, which would be fine if we thought they were doing a good job representing us. What I don't understand is why we keep re-electing these same people when their approval rating is so low.

So, IMO, the problem is us, the people. If they can't be bothered to vote people that don't represent their views out of office what makes y'all think they can be bothered to stay informed on everything that they would now have to vote on? Hell only about 1/2 the eligible people vote now. Do y'all really think this is a good idea?

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I would prefer them to "the great unwashed masses". I have no problem with the idea of representative democracy. We elect people to represent us. The problem, as I see it, is that we keep re-electing the same people, which would be fine if we thought they were doing a good job representing us. What I don't understand is why we keep re-electing these same people when their approval rating is so low.

So, IMO, the problem is us, the people. If they can't be bothered to vote people that don't represent their views out of office what makes y'all think they can be bothered to stay informed on everything that they would now have to vote on? Hell only about 1/2 the eligible people vote now. Do y'all really think this is a good idea?

The problem is that we are no longer a democracy (or representative republic if one prefers). We are at best a Meritocracy, and at worst an Aristocracy. The people are only given a finite amount of choices on who to vote for. Chances are the guy you vote in to replace the incumbent will be just as bad. Look at the colleges of our last four presidents. All Ivy League. Is that representative of our country? I doubt it. They may not be Aristocrats in the traditional sense i.e. royalty, but they fit the description well enough. The current system favors the two parties currently in power. We need a viable third party to shake thing up. To show the Dems and Reps that they are no longer safe.

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Wow, just wow. You want to turn the decision making over to low-information voters? Really?

..

..

The problem, as I see it, is that we keep re-electing the same people, which would be fine if we thought they were doing a good job representing us

hey, why not, it is not like leaving it to high information politicians works anyway.

that is if you beileve in this vote\choice illusion.

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The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with an average voter.

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The problem is that we are no longer a democracy (or representative republic if one prefers). We are at best a Meritocracy, and at worst an Aristocracy. The people are only given a finite amount of choices on who to vote for. Chances are the guy you vote in to replace the incumbent will be just as bad. Look at the colleges of our last four presidents. All Ivy League. Is that representative of our country? I doubt it. They may not be Aristocrats in the traditional sense i.e. royalty, but they fit the description well enough. The current system favors the two parties currently in power. We need a viable third party to shake thing up. To show the Dems and Reps that they are no longer safe.

Hence the Libertarian Party. Now if we can only get the un-informed to pay attention. We are still a representative republic, just the citizens have fallen down on our part. We need to regain our power and let the politicians know that we are watching by voting them out if they aren't doing as we want.

If the car isn't going where we want then it is our own damn fault for not changing drivers.

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Posted (edited)

First of all, the majority of people are never going to read this OP. So you need to do something a little more eye-catching than just your avatar.

Let's be blunt. We need another revolution, hopefully bloodless. I say "hopefully" because I'm not convinced it can be done without bloodshed.

While I despise Communism, I despise what we've created, equally. Freedom is about more than equal opportunity to prosper. It's primarily about our ability to speak truth to power. That was what the American Revolution was about, at its core. It wasn't about taxes, the American colonies had among the lowest taxes in the entire British Empire. They were angry because they felt they had no voice. They felt they had no real say in their government. That is exactly what we have today, all over again. The only difference is that we have many kings instead of one. Kings, who take us to war with barely a thought or consideration of the costs or consequences.

For example, I think if most Americans had had a true voice they would've chosen the best schools on earth over the Iraq War, But we had no voice in that war, and if you have no voice in the most dangerous task any nation can perform, then what hope is there for the easy stuff?

After these recent revelations by Edward Snowden, and the reactions of our Congress and the mainstream media, I've lost all hope that this democracy, this Republic, can survive for more than two years as it currently stands. I believe in our Constitution, but I despise its implementation.

The phrase "give me liberty, or give me death," never meant anything to me before. For the first time in my life, I feel what that means.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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This Idea is a no go from the get go. It does nothing to fix the current problems we have (i.e. a bunch of power hungry anti-constitutionalists in D.C.) first you have to get these non-party affiliated people in government then keep them from getting corrupted by the party hacks who are already there. IMHO the only way we can start to fix our country is term limits. Get those people out of Washington who are causing our problems and keep rotating the stock.

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The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with an average voter.

Just for the recored this is a quote from winston churchill.

Just wanted to give him credit :tu:

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Just for the recored this is a quote from winston churchill.

Just wanted to give him credit :tu:

you would give him more credit by adding the next sentence he said: Democracy is the worst system but all others that have been tried.

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This Idea is a no go from the get go. It does nothing to fix the current problems we have (i.e. a bunch of power hungry anti-constitutionalists in D.C.) first you have to get these non-party affiliated people in government then keep them from getting corrupted by the party hacks who are already there. IMHO the only way we can start to fix our country is term limits. Get those people out of Washington who are causing our problems and keep rotating the stock.

Nobody is given a true choice today, it's always between one tyrant or another. I think many would choose to seize power back to the people as a whole, and that is exactly what we need. There really are no other options.

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I'm not an American either but I am a member of UM.

It sounds like you're a member or founder of "www.renovateamericanow.org" and using this site as a platform. That's a no-no.

If not, you should make the distinction!

I agree few things are as horrible as true democracy. where its fine for 51% to vote to enslave 49%, but what the hell i am right wing living in california. I perfer a nice set of rights no one can deprive me of. Now if people would just stop depriving me of them.

Papagiorgio Meritocracy would be good over what we have. We have people of no merit being elected and making descisions on topics they have no clue about. A meritocracy would put economists in charge of bugdets or at least in the porcess. The FCC would be primarily headed with engineers who want to develops faster wireless protocols over lobbiests for the cable industry.

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I can appreciate your passion. As things stand right now, it's a pretty grim forecast.

"We" have allowed this to happen though.

True democracy is a terrible idea...it is essentially "the mob rules". As said by "travelnjones", majority rules basically means 51% can tell 49% to get bent.

This IS NOT what our country was founded on. We are a Constitutional Republic and a Nomocracy (the rule of law). It MUST be this way. In this system, everyone has a voice...everyone has equal protection of the law...the many, the few and even the one. In any other system, the few or the one can be plowed over by the majority....(aka...the mob).

What we have now are an astounding number of people that do not know how their country works. You must know what tools are available for you to get out there and push things in the direction you would like to see them go. YOU as a "one" have a voice. If you do not how to use that voice, that is not the fault of the Republic....that is your fault.

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Nobody is given a true choice today, it's always between one tyrant or another. I think many would choose to seize power back to the people as a whole, and that is exactly what we need. There really are no other options.

Then the question becomes can you have a revolution without bloodshed??

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Nobody is given a true choice today, it's always between one tyrant or another. I think many would choose to seize power back to the people as a whole, and that is exactly what we need. There really are no other options.

But the people as a whole are a bunch of misinformed sheep or to busy to care which is why we are in the situation we are in now. with your system we would end up in the same game with different teams. and since you want true democracy it would be a very slippery slope.

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Posted (edited)

Then the question becomes can you have a revolution without bloodshed??

not an effective one, bloodless Ukraine orange revolution, even thou pushed "people's" president, but it did absolutely nothing for lives of the ppl, in relatively short time, ppl understood that, and didn't mind when their guy was removed, and replaced with his former opponent. i'm not entirely sure it was pll's victory, more like it was allowed to happen. and it showed no matter who you "elect" same things will continue to happen.

as for revolution here, in order for revolution to succeed, you need at least strong opposition, and a leader with good ideas , we have neither, just a country full of p***ed off citizens, that would not really achieve much, despite their guns.

Edited by aztek
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Then the question becomes can you have a revolution without bloodshed??

If everyone banded together and voted for candidates outside of the two parties and completely destroyed them through the ballot box, that would be completely non-violent. If I had a hundred million dollars and a lot of spare time on my hands that would be the method I would be pushing for.

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I'm not a US citizen but I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in. Apart for a more structured voting system, which I agree with, the other main point was,

candidates will campaign on an idea, that their individual beliefs are irrelevant, in favor of the idea that they should act as true representatives and servants of the people and their collective will.

This, IMO is an insurmountable probability in today's world and, for that matter, it's evident in our human history. The reason? Human greed, too much self interest and diversity in the world. Can us humans ever agree on a collective will? Not sure but, it sounds like a lot of wishful thinking.

I read this quote once,

You can put a tuxedo on a pig but it's still going to look for a mudhole.

Doesn't matter how much you dress up the proposal, we're still going to head for the mudhole....

Yeah there's huge resistance for this idea, albeit a great one in theory, to even get off the ground. Most people haven't even been made aware (much less convinced) that there's even a problem with the establishment yet. They're making a living on it, though it's far more correct to say the establishment is making its living on them. So first we'd have to convince them all that the ship is sinking, and these weasels in their marble halls aren't going to realize that until the ship is already sunk. Appealing to them to take beautiful action in response to the sinking ship presumes that they know the reason why they're taking the action and they agree with it.

Bureaucracies take root and they never die, they only grow larger. Once there's another branch of government it will never go quietly into the night to make government smaller. 'Mission Creep' gives every bureaucracy new relevancy to continue, even when its original purpose for existing in the first place is no longer relevant.

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