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Raptor Witness

Snowden helps NSA spot future revolutionaries

46 posts in this topic

Yep, that would be me. Just called the Congressmen today and told them I would be on the front lines of any US civil war or revolution. Gave my name and address. Just letting them know I am committed to the US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights.

Their response:

Much the same response that most people would give someone calling them and trying to sell them something, I would imagine. Except they'd probably be a bit more poilte than just to put the phone down.

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If law enforcers followed the law and prescribed procedures the way lawyers would have it, no one would be able to be open for business for zone reasons and no criminal would be arrested for evidence standard reasons.

Such nonsense from across the sea! :cry:

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Do you understand what I said and do you have evidence or argument to counter it, or do you just rely on one-line insults to ratify yourself?

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To be perfectly honest Frank, I did not completely understand what you were trying to say. That's why I called it nonsense.

"no criminal would be arrested for evidence standard reasons" was a very large part of that nonsense. While I still don't understand what you're trying to say, it sounds very much like some nonsense garble that Rush Limbaugh might utter.

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I've listened to Limbaugh via download a couple times; it isn't worth the trouble. He is interesting but arrogantly wrong.

My statement was a complaint about lawyers. If you are rich enough and can "lawyer up," you can get away with murder. Police have to take shortcuts all the time to get their job done -- the proceduritis if the American legal system effectively prevents arrests in the vast majority of the situations where the police know full well who is guilty.

The same sort of thing applies to the enforcement of building codes and labor codes and health codes. If they were enforced to the letter no one would be able to do business.

In most societies these problems are oiled with a little graft and with judges understanding reasonable procedure, but in the States the lawyers rule and all this is out the window.

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OK, I understand what you're saying.

Partly true, partly untrue, simply by way of exaggeration. From Shakespeare on, people have wanted to kill all the lawyers. Many times I can sympathize, completely.

However many times selfless lawyers seek and deliver justice, as long as a neutral and principled judge ends up in the equation that is a court proceeding.

The rule of law is a good thing, AS LONG AS the laws are just and intelligently written. The various constitutions, state and federal, are meant to deliver good governance by way of restricting the state's powers and protecting the rights and libery of each and every individual.

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You need balance between and laws and individual discretion. For example I think the notion of dismissing evidence because proper procedure was not followed is an outrage. It keeps the jury bound by rules of evidence rather than doing what it is suppose to do.

All societies have a rule of law, even brutal dictators are bound by all sorts of rules in their society. These rules can be more or less arbitrary. Rigid, written legal codes create problems, leaving everything up to the magistrate creates problems. I know it cannot be perfect, but I think the best is a balance.

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I did not use the term "individual discretion" Frank, you did.

I said "individual rights and liberties". That is not discretion.

The balance has been struck between the rights and liberties of the individual and the power of the government, way back in 1787 when the US Constitution was written, and 1789 when the Bill Of Rights was incorporated and the document ratified. That balance was quite simple and quite well defined in those documents. A fairly concise statement of it can be found in the Preamble to the document, but to really be familiar with the details, one must read the entire document, and scholarly treatments of it over the years.

You may not get to see it there in Vietnam, but soon there will be an HBO special entitled "Gideon's Army" which will go very much into what you and I discuss here. Gideon is from the big case Gideon v. Wainwright, the case which established that every individual has the right to an attorney in criminal proceedings.

You completely misunderstand the role of the jury in our system Frank. The jury is "we the people", in the English style. Further, as will be eloquently described in Gideon's Army, under our system (probably not the Vietnamese system) the presumption of innocence is paramount. In our system, the defendant must be presumed innocent. The government MUST PROVE, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed any crime.

I hope you get to see the documentary.

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I hate to tell you this but I did go five years to University in the States, and am very familiar with the Constitution and its history, so you do not need to patronize me on that.

My view of the Constitution is that it is reasonably good, but not great, and considerably out of date. The 14th Amendment made it flexible enough to survive in the modern world, but the logjam you see today is an example of its flaws.

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Much the same response that most people would give someone calling them and trying to sell them something, I would imagine. Except they'd probably be a bit more poilte than just to put the phone down.

I call your post speculation.

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I hate to tell you this but I did go five years to University in the States, and am very familiar with the Constitution and its history, so you do not need to patronize me on that.

My view of the Constitution is that it is reasonably good, but not great, and considerably out of date. The 14th Amendment made it flexible enough to survive in the modern world, but the logjam you see today is an example of its flaws.

Wow, 5 years at University! Bravo.

Unfortunately, from what you've posted on this subject so far those 5 years did not include much in the way of constitutional studies. That, or you failed the course?

Your views remind me of the views of our notorious Constitutional Law Professor Obama. I'm thinking he bought his diploma at WalMart.

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Posted (edited)

From the sound of it, common sense says this is an unlikely conspiracy. I would then argue that it doesn't have to be a conspiracy for someone bad to use the information gathered, in the advent of a revolt, major natural disaster, or a third world war. It's just too easy to capture, or kill, based upon whatever criteria you search for in your PRISM program. According to Snowden, they will have not just our published material, but the keystrokes used to construct the ideas. That's beyond sinister to me. That's evil beyond words, and I'll fight that with every breath I take, because I've seen evidence to support what he's saying.

I now consider the NSA the enemy of mankind.

Abbas meus hostilis ...

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Edited by Raptor Witness
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MArk my words,In two months We will hear ,and remember nothing of Snowden! :tu:

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MArk my words,In two months We will hear ,and remember nothing of Snowden! :tu:

i agree we will hear nothing from the media, but good people will remember

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I don't think he did any thing bad,

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I figured something was up when he was able to somehow get through firewall and he was able to slip out of China and not get caught because of technicalities. Somehow he got refugee documents that he shouldn't have been able to get. This Snowden guy isn't safe. Unless he's somehow a hacker and has hacker friends. Even This site though is used to find out information about the people who use it, along with facebook, and other websites. Potentially this bulleton might be used to find out what we all think to identify us.

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He Will Rot in Russia ! Nobody cares really what he told anyone ! Its All B.S. Its His personal 15 sec`s of Infomany !

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So...Its a conspiracy theory inside a conspiracy theory inside a conspiracy? Or something like that...Now this just complicated things...More. UGH!

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Seriously? Make a list of the acts of crime and terrorism perpetrated by the Tea Party, and then compare the damage and violence at their rallies to those of "Occupiers" and varied leftists. Some Tea Party events look like lines at the local cafeteria's early bird special. Grandparents, who want a small government, are the new bogeymen of progressives. :rolleyes:

the remark made about the tea party was funny. The tea party are like old timers sitting on lawn chairs holding small flags in their hand , like as though they're just simply patriotic people who want the best for us all , happiness and freedom. And so , that's why they have tried to defend our constitutional liberties.

I don't understand the deception within the far left .They know in their hearts that these people are harmless.

Edited by Reann

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the remark made about the tea party was funny. The tea party are like old timers sitting on lawn chairs holding small flags in their hand , like as though they're just simply patriotic people who want the best for us all , happiness and freedom. And so , that's why they have tried to defend our constitutional liberties.

I don't understand the deception within the far left .They know in their hearts that these people are harmless.

Shhh, dont tell em that. We love playing the violent bad guys, who could start gunning folks down at the drop of a hat, lol.

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For what its worth, I was just replying to a topic in the Conspiracy Forum, when about half way through, the page refreshed on its own and my response was lost.

Also, I cannot seem to find the original post anywhere now. My response had to do with the topic of the middle class and upper class gap widening even more, due to the patriot act and government relations.

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