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rashore

Woman being denied citizenship

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Margaret Doughty, a 64-year old woman from the UK who has spent the past 30+ years in the U.S., is in the process of applying for United States Citizenship and happens to be an atheist. She is currently a permanent resident running non-profit adult literacy organizations, doing her part to enrich the lives of American citizens. In the process of applying for citizenship, all candidates are asked if they’d be willing to take up arms in defense of the United States of America.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-991030

Wow, this woman is being honest, helping others, and morally against personally taking up arms. But because she's an athiest, that isn't counting for anything in being a conscientious objector because her morals don't come from a recognized religion.

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What a bizarrely totalitarian state of affairs. Yet further proof that the U.S. is on the way to becoming a Theocracy?

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Well, yes, the get-on of religion and state has always been brought in by the backdoor in the US.

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If she was Mexican and had twelve kids, she wouldn't have to answer any questions.

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If she was Mexican and had twelve kids, she wouldn't have to answer any questions.

If she was an illegal from Mexico with 6 kids, she'd be given citizenship and welfare..... :no:

Further proof our immigration system needs to be fixed.....

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Posted (edited)

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-991030

Wow, this woman is being honest, helping others, and morally against personally taking up arms. But because she's an athiest, that isn't counting for anything in being a conscientious objector because her morals don't come from a recognized religion.

Well, I did hear recently that there were talks of our Country becoming more like the Israel citizens are , where as everyone must join the Israeli Militant. I don't know how much of this media output to believe. I really have very little trust in main stream media ..

But there are religious groups that do no believe in taking up arms such as the Jehovah witnesses, they actually get out of a lot of situations by means of their beliefs...So I don't really believe this propaganda to be legit as of right now.There's probably more to this then what's being presented for the public to take into their emotional psyche , maybe in attempt to hopefully "demean religion" .Sort of seems like there's a room for a possible political motive behind the scenes.

Edited by Reann

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From what little I read of this... It sounds more to me like some petty bureucrat who found a form that wasn't filled out the way they thought it should be... "Oh. You didn't get anyone to sign this form. Sorry, request denighed."

She should be able to appeal this through the INS Chain of Confusion Command...

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What a bizarrely totalitarian state of affairs. Yet further proof that the U.S. is on the way to becoming a Theocracy?

Just watch a half hour of television, count the number of anti-Christian jokes and maybe rethink your position...

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From what little I read of this... It sounds more to me like some petty bureucrat who found a form that wasn't filled out the way they thought it should be... "Oh. You didn't get anyone to sign this form. Sorry, request denighed."

She should be able to appeal this through the INS Chain of Confusion Command...

Naturally, and there will be somebody getting a set of warm ears over this.

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She has been given until June 21st to show that her objection is religiously-based, or her application will be denied.

Cricky! what happened to being a free person?

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Listen to the athiest cry. How dare the government find against one of their own.

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Posted (edited)

She has been given until June 21st to show that her objection is religiously-based, or her application will be denied.

Cricky! what happened to being a free person?

She'll have to declare athism a religon

Edited by danielost

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She'll have to declare athism a religon

The US has recognized Athieism as a "religion" for years, by default.... Athiest has always been allowed on government forms that ask religious affiliation, and the military has allowed Athiest on "Dog Tags" and other documents... She should have no problem winning this one... rather - her "litigation trickster" should have no problem....

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A quick google search provided the following:

WHO QUALIFIES?

Beliefs which qualify a registrant for CO status may be religious in nature, but don't have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man's reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man's lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.

SERVICE AS A CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR

Two types of service are available to conscientious objectors, and the type assigned is determined by the individual's specific beliefs. The person who is opposed to any form of military service will be assigned to Alternative Service - described below. The person whose beliefs allow him to serve in the military but in a noncombatant capacity will serve in the Armed Forces but will not be assigned training or duties that include using weapons.

ALTERNATIVE SERVICE

Conscientious Objectors opposed to serving in the military will be placed in the Selective Service Alternative Service Program. This program attempts to match COs with local employers. Many types of jobs are available, however the job must be deemed to make a meaningful contribution to the maintenance of the national health, safety, and interest. Examples of Alternative Service are jobs in:


  • conservation

  • caring for the very young or very old

  • education

  • health care

Length of service in the program will equal the amount of time a man would have served in the military, usually 24 months.

She stated that she wouldn't have a problem serving in Alternative Services or non-combat service. Now she would just have to convince the board that her reasons for seeking Conscientious Objector classification qualify. Religion, while one of the acceptable reason, isn't the only one. Therefore I can only conclude that whomever looked at her application doesn't know what the rules are. This one should be easy to handle. Let her get her citizenship as a CO and train the person that refused her application in the first place.

I am a little confused by this statement: "my lifelong spiritual/religious beliefs". As an athiest can she have lifelong religious beliefs? Just asking, I don't know if athiest can or not (not many overt athiests where I live).

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Either way they won't put her in any military services, she's to old.

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Posted (edited)

Well, I did hear recently that there were talks of our Country becoming more like the Israel citizens are , where as everyone must join the Israeli Militant.

not everyone, you will never see hasidic jews in army. actually israel army at least 1\3 of its soldiers are russian speaking immigrants from former ussr.

Edited by aztek

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She was asked if she would be willing to defend this country and she basically said no. That's why she was denied citizenship.

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She was asked if she would be willing to defend this country and she basically said no. That's why she was denied citizenship.

And what a a ridiculous question that is to have as a standard question on a form. I suppose it's another of those anachronistic hangovers from the Revolution, when every citizen was expect to be ready to spring to Arms if the redcoats came clattering into town. Surely it's completely out of date in terms of modern warfare, unless they really do believe there's ever any possible prospect of enemy troops defeating the greatest war machine in the world and managing to put troops ashore. And if they do, then 64-year-old women will be expected to take up arms.

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And what a a ridiculous question that is to have as a standard question on a form. I suppose it's another of those anachronistic hangovers from the Revolution, when every citizen was expect to be ready to spring to Arms if the redcoats came clattering into town. Surely it's completely out of date in terms of modern warfare, unless they really do believe there's ever any possible prospect of enemy troops defeating the greatest war machine in the world and managing to put troops ashore. And if they do, then 64-year-old women will be expected to take up arms.

If you are not willing to defend your country, why would you want to join it to start with? I can understand that somebody seezz that he did not ask to be born in a certain place and therefore feels no obligation toward it, what I don't understand is that somebody wants to acquire citizenship voluntarily and then seez to feel no obligation.

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If she was an illegal from Mexico with 6 kids, she'd be given citizenship and welfare..... :no:

Further proof our immigration system needs to be fixed.....

Do they really give citizenship to illegal Mexican immigrants with 6 kids?? And no, sh´d probably be cleaning toilets in a fast-food joint or something like that. In my experience, the majority of mexicans are hard workers.

Never really a good idea to be honest with immigration in some matters. About 20 years ago, I was crossing into the US from Canada. Was asked many questions....one being do you have any drugs in your vehicle. i honestly answered no. Asked if I´d ever taken drugs before I answered honestly, yes, I tried it in high school many years ago but didn´t like it. Was asked to pull over immediately and enter into immigration. Was refused entrance because I had admitted taking an illegal narcotic before and was told I´d need a pardon if I ever wanted to enter the US again. I´ve never even been arrested and so have no criminal record. It was just an a-hole customs agent. I suspect this to be an a-hole immigration officer. Never did get to meet ny NJ honey at the Seattle train station :td:

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holly s..t, i never thought i'll ever agree with Q on anything. i do on this matter

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Posted (edited)

When I reach retirement age,of 64+ I hope to goodness I can defend myself let alone my country. I didn't know the US army would want senior citizens in their troops...

I didn't think they would expect senior citizens to fight for their country...Someone's grandma with her slippers on, and purse containing her pension book, spare dentures, bingo card and an assault rifle to attack the enemy lol

I can see the US army front line - The zimmer frame cadets, fighting along side the blue rinse brigade... :D

Jokes aside...It goes to show you, we are not al that free...I thought America were all about freedom of religion and other paths?

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Do they really give citizenship to illegal Mexican immigrants with 6 kids?? And no, sh´d probably be cleaning toilets in a fast-food joint or something like that. In my experience, the majority of mexicans are hard workers.

Hate to burst your bubble, but....

Illegal immigrant and mother of seven, Marita Nelson, receives $240 in food stamps, medications, $700 in

and housing allowance. She entered the US by swimming the Rio Grande. Now she's on a crusade to help other illegals sign up for their free stuff.

Look, I am not against immigration, we need people coming to the US, who are going to contribute and add to our society, and pay taxes, and such. Like the woman in the OP. It seems she is doing a valuable service in her community. Those are the people we need here. Not people, like in the above video....All they want are free food stamps, healthcare, and SSI....Then they have 6 or 7 kids so they can't get deported....What's even worse, is the reason they have so many kids is so they can get more money in food stamps and federal assistance.

I've walked in to the Social Security office, and seen illegals with 3 or 4 kids, who don't even look over 30, get food stamps and TANF, meanwhile they have manicured nails, smart phones, and a brand new car (usually in someone else's name so they don't have to claim the car as their's....) It is sickening! And they KNOW how to play the system....

I understand not all of them are like that, I'm sure there are many who work hard, and just want a better life for their children, and there is nothing wrong with that. But the leeches need to go home....

Never really a good idea to be honest with immigration in some matters. About 20 years ago, I was crossing into the US from Canada. Was asked many questions....one being do you have any drugs in your vehicle. i honestly answered no. Asked if I´d ever taken drugs before I answered honestly, yes, I tried it in high school many years ago but didn´t like it. Was asked to pull over immediately and enter into immigration. Was refused entrance because I had admitted taking an illegal narcotic before and was told I´d need a pardon if I ever wanted to enter the US again. I´ve never even been arrested and so have no criminal record. It was just an a-hole customs agent. I suspect this to be an a-hole immigration officer. Never did get to meet ny NJ honey at the Seattle train station :td:

Sorry to hear that happened to you. That really sucks....

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Posted (edited)

Hate to burst your bubble, but....

Illegal immigrant and mother of seven, Marita Nelson, receives $240 in food stamps, medications, $700 in

and housing allowance. She entered the US by swimming the Rio Grande. Now she's on a crusade to help other illegals sign up for their free stuff.

[media=]

[/media]

Look, I am not against immigration, we need people coming to the US, who are going to contribute and add to our society, and pay taxes, and such. Like the woman in the OP. It seems she is doing a valuable service in her community. Those are the people we need here. Not people, like in the above video....All they want are free food stamps, healthcare, and SSI....Then they have 6 or 7 kids so they can't get deported....What's even worse, is the reason they have so many kids is so they can get more money in food stamps and federal assistance.

I've walked in to the Social Security office, and seen illegals with 3 or 4 kids, who don't even look over 30, get food stamps and TANF, meanwhile they have manicured nails, smart phones, and a brand new car (usually in someone else's name so they don't have to claim the car as their's....) It is sickening! And they KNOW how to play the system....

I understand not all of them are like that, I'm sure there are many who work hard, and just want a better life for their children, and there is nothing wrong with that. But the leeches need to go home....

It does sound so sickening...More over here are always willing to commit benefit fraud.. What I mean by that is, they claim money for 10 kids when they only have two.( I read about it in our local news papers) ... Then you get the real hard workers who have to break their backs working, something happens to them, they can no longer work due to some serious injury and it annoys them. They can't get out to work again, these people usually face discrimination by their own government.

If I were to go and live in the US, I would only do so with my own money, and our own business..I wouldn't want to sponge off anyone.. I have too much pride to do that..

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Just watch a half hour of television, count the number of anti-Christian jokes and maybe rethink your position...

Watch a half hour of TV and play "spot the non-Christian".

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