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Where are YOU on this map ?

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Steve Pearse: Last September 19th, 2011 marked the 50th anniversary of the Betty and Barney Hill case, one of the world's best known and documented cases of alien abduction ever recorded in the history of Ufology. On a lonely road in the White mountains of New Hampshire, they became the victim to the perfect crime of a horrific abduction by the occupants of an unknown flying object late at night. The Hills' story is a richly detailed CEIII-5 abduction case with a highly unusual epic tale of being stopped by a group of humanoids on a side gravel road and taken aboard their landed spacecraft for medical examination. It soon became the most thoroughly investigated UFO case study ever, and their story got worldwide attention.

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Betty and Barney have always been my favorite abduction case, always holding firm to their story.

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Steve Pearse, will you be engaging in a discussion on this?

And may I suggest that the 'story' might be a little more accurately reported if, instead of restating claims as if they actually happened, you make it clear they are claims. For example, sentences like this (of which there are many):

"Betty and Barney Hill started having nightmares"

should really be more like:

"Betty and Barney Hill reported they started having nightmares"

Unless, of course, you have an extreme case of confirmation bias or "I-believe-everything-I-hear" disease...

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Betty and Barney have always been my favorite abduction case, always holding firm to their story.

It's a good one but not my favorite.

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It's a good one but not my favorite.

Who?

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I wonder if I showed most of the readers here a map of a few dozen stars, could anyone reproduce it, from memory, after a supposedly traumatic event like an alien abduction, and do so with enough accuracy that it would be recognizable? And where would it be recognizable from? Earth? Or the supposed alien's home world? And at what orientation (i.e. which way is "up" or perhaps north), it could be quite different to you and to "them"? You could draw several dots on a page and a computer might match them up with stars in the night sky, but if your drawing was off by just a fraction it could easily match them with completely different stars. There is also the magnitude, color, etcetera of the stars to consider. To me this map seems rather worthless on the face of it.

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I was thinking the same thing. Is the map from Earths point of view? Wouldn't it look different if seen from another angle in space?

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Who?

My guess is Travis Walton. That's my favorite abduction tale since it's credible, and the witnesses are trustworthy according to the polygraph tests.

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'Tis a pity that it seems the author of that 'article' is not interested in defending it. I suspect I know why...

As an aside, the analysis done by Marjorie E Fish (why do self proclaimed ufo researchers have such silly names..?) is a complete and utter joke, and is the text book example of Confirmation Bias at work.

In simple terms: if you spend ages manipulating data looking for a rough match, it doesn't matter what the data is - you almost certainly will.

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All you skeptic folks I hope someday an alien ship comes and zaps your ass up and let's see if defending an article matters you say some of the most dumbest bull I've ever heard.Truth could hit you in the face and you still wouldn't believe it.Every case I have studied the similarities are there and really why would somebody lie about being snatched up damn......Since you all have the answer stay off the site making dumb comments....fake know it alls go work for nasa then they need you.

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Posted (edited)

On the plus side, if this is all the map these aliens have made, they can't be exceptionally more technically advanced then us. Maybe only a couple hundred years.

Edited by DieChecker

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Betty and Barney have always been my favorite abduction case, always holding firm to their story.

Not so.

Originally, Betty claimed the aliens looked like Jimmy Durante. She changed that story.

Also, Barney originally claimed he didn't experience what Betty experienced.

Another story change.

Harte

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Posted (edited)

All you skeptic folks I hope someday an alien ship comes and zaps your ass up and let's see if defending an article matters you say some of the most dumbest bull I've ever heard.Truth could hit you in the face and you still wouldn't believe it.Every case I have studied the similarities are there and really why would somebody lie about being snatched up damn......Since you all have the answer stay off the site making dumb comments....fake know it alls go work for nasa then they need you.

If the forums didn't allow dumb comments you wouldn't be posting here. Edited by Rlyeh
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All you skeptic folks I hope someday an alien ship comes and zaps your ass up and let's see if defending an article matters you say some of the most dumbest bull I've ever heard.Truth could hit you in the face and you still wouldn't believe it.Every case I have studied the similarities are there and really why would somebody lie about being snatched up damn......Since you all have the answer stay off the site making dumb comments....fake know it alls go work for nasa then they need you.

I just love the bolded part.. Yeah, no-one here wants answers!!!

Anyway, for anyone interested in actual discussion, I'd be happy to look at just exactly how Marjorie Fish came to her 'remarkable' conclusions..

Paranomali, you've hit one of many nails right on the head. Dear Marjorie had to try many different angles and 3d viewpoints before she finally got one that, sorta/almost/not quite/nearly 'matched' ... Given that approach, I reckon I can match anything to anything else.. I'm sure it might impress some folks, but it is meaningless. Science uses various methodologies and safeguards to ensure that sort of rubbish is not accepted... but some will eagerly accept any old rubbish, if it helps bolster their favorite belief.

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I thought it was common knowledge that under hypnosis you can remember things that in a normal state you wouldn't be able to remember. Also, lets attack the person name...that will discredit them. I don't think that Marjorie Fish is any stranger than John Smith or Alice Clark, its just a name. If you believe this story or just think its worth further investigation don't let these skeptics bully you:

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/scepticism/drasin.html

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I thought it was common knowledge that under hypnosis you can remember things that in a normal state you wouldn't be able to remember.

Yeah - trouble is, 'common' knowledge' is often extremely wrong. Regression hypnosis is widely discredited, and major bodies such as the American Psychological Association recommend against relying on such 'testimony' in any way unless there is corroborating evidence. You need to update your knowledge..

Also, lets attack the person name...that will discredit them.

I have a funny name too, but it doesn't worry me at all if you say so - it's the actual argument that you can put together that counts. And Marjorie Fish's research is highly flawed. Did you know that she herself is reported to have backed away from her 'correlation' shortly before she passed away? Do you know why?

I don't think that Marjorie Fish is any stranger than John Smith or Alice Clark, its just a name.

Then why continue to focus attention it - let's talk about her 'research' and how valid it is. So far you haven't said a single thing about that. First up, do you have any sources or references for her research methodology? I'll post some links if you don't - but that won't look good so here's your chance to get in first...

If you believe this story or just think its worth further investigation don't let these skeptics bully you

I would have though it would be best to engage in debate than simply dismiss the views of people you don't like. Anyway, as we delve into Marjorie's research, we will soon see who knows their topic...

{irrelevant link removed}

Why do you keep bringing up this stuff which is not part of the case under discussion? Trying to change the topic, perchance?

If you wish to look at Drasin's ad hominem laden garbage, which is also heavily flawed then start another thread. I'll happily take that subject on also, but NOT HERE. Got a problem with individual posts? - then report them instead of handwaving.

So, let's start with Marjorie's research, shall we? Please provide your favorite links and let's look at what she did, very carefully, step by step, in a logical and fair fashion. Here's a starting point to get a better picture of Ms Fish - do you agree with/accept this 'bibliography' of Marjorie?

http://www.kochkybor...ll/fishbibl.htm

And I trust you know why the name 'Atterberg' is important..? Let the debate commence - others are welcome to join in, but I would suggest you know the topic well - if you just start googling now, you will be way behind...

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I thought it was common knowledge that under hypnosis you can remember things that in a normal state you wouldn't be able to remember.

That turns out not to be the case. In fact, it's just the opposite - hypnosis can help you "remember" things that never happened.

HYPNOSIS, even self-hypnosis, can sometimes result in the creation of false memories -- the belief that something happened even though it never did. A psychologist at Ohio State University in Lima and fellow researchers found that even when people were warned about the possibility of acquiring pseudo-memories under hypnosis, more than a quarter of them did anyway.

Dr. Joseph Green, a professor of psychology at Ohio State and co-author of the study, said, ''There's a cultural expectation that hypnosis will lead to more accurate and earlier memories, but that's not true.''

Source and some study results: NYTimes

Of course, if you'd rather believe what you've witnessed on TV dramas, well...

Harte

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Sigh. Betty and Barney - I don't even know where to begin on how utterly ridiculous that whole story is.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Hmm. Where did RedHouseHendrix go, I wonder? Still googling, perhaps..

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Hmm. Where did RedHouseHendrix go, I wonder? Still googling, perhaps..

Chrlzs, good posts!

Cheers,

Badeskov

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I loved Sagan's view on the Hill's and the star map betty drew..

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the real problem with any ufo experience story is that it will never stand up as 100% evidence because theres always a thousand different reasons why it could be fake..the only way that ufos could be proven to be real is if every single person on the planet witnessed them 1st hand.. and by that I mean seeing is believing appart from the few that will automatically deny what they have seen and choose to suppress any memory of the incident..

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My guess is Travis Walton. That's my favorite abduction tale since it's credible, and the witnesses are trustworthy according to the polygraph tests.

First time I read about Walton I really wanted to believe him, until I made a little research and I found some stuff against his story. Still a cool story.

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That was one of my favorite, but some how I think something in the car made them hallucinate, gas fumes or something:)

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All you skeptic folks I hope someday an alien ship comes and zaps your ass up and let's see if defending an article matters you say some of the most dumbest bull I've ever heard.Truth could hit you in the face and you still wouldn't believe it.Every case I have studied the similarities are there and really why would somebody lie about being snatched up damn......Since you all have the answer stay off the site making dumb comments....fake know it alls go work for nasa then they need you.

Cool story Bro ;)

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