Japan Attacked in Court

[village_idiot]

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/science-of-japanese-whaling-attacked-in-court-case-20130628-2p0me.html

Year after year after year the ICR goes down to the whale sanctuary to plunder and year after year they use the same excuse; it is a research operation. Yet, there is no real research going on. These thugs, recently funded by tsunami aid money, are protected under Japanese law and are long over due for swift justice.

[Insaniac]

If it was up to them, they would see to it Whales became extinct...

[Irrelevant]

Or maybe they just don't say what there really doing openly because it causes them even greater persecution from those who don't believe the same as them , so they just do it anyway they can to keep there tradition alive.

[Yamato]

Or maybe they just don't say what there really doing openly because it causes them even greater persecution from those who don't believe the same as them , so they just do it anyway they can to keep there tradition alive.

there they're

persecution prosecution

there their

If Japan wanted to keep tradition alive they'd start obeying the law or else they're going to be shut down either legally in the short term, economically in the mid term, or ecologically in the long term. Lying about what one is doing only ruins one's credibility. The only way it could provide a benefit is if people actually believe it.

Economically the Japanese fleet is already sunk. They survive on subsidization courtesy of Japanese taxpayers who don't even eat the mercury meat, and this is thanks to central bankers inflating the money supply out of thin air and borrowing from the value of the savings of productive members of Japanese society. Japanese people ought to be incensed with what they're putting up with. The opportunity cost incurred by subsidizing whale meat instead of much more valuable uses of that money that could be applied for Japanese people in real need is a shame. We've heard many times about the "lost decade" recently witnessed in the Japanese economy but the clock's been ticking a long time since then and they're approaching a "lost generation" now with no changes in policy in sight.

We can go from boom to bust

From dreams to a bowl of dust

We can fall from rockets' red glare

Down to brother can you spare

Another war, another wasteland

And another lost generation

~Neil Peart

Edited July 6, 2013 by Yamato

[psyche101]

If it was up to them, they would see to it Whales became extinct...

What would they hunt then?

[psyche101]

Economically the Japanese fleet is already sunk.

Pffft, what a load of crap. Tell them that when they turn up again next year would ya? Save us all some trouble and send that bunch of Pirates away from the shores of this beautiful country all in the one hit.

[psyche101]

http://www.theage.co...0628-2p0me.html

Year after year after year the ICR goes down to the whale sanctuary to plunder and year after year they use the same excuse; it is a research operation. Yet, there is no real research going on. These thugs, recently funded by tsunami aid money, are protected under Japanese law and are long over due for swift justice.

Let's just hope that facts and reasoning result in a ban that is honoured. If Japan insists it prides itself on tradition, then losing a battle, they must honourably submit, or be seen by the entire world as liars. Thank goodness someone is trying to do something sensible instead of just sending pirate ships out there to use the situation for personal gain.

[Yamato]

Pffft, what a load of crap. Tell them that when they turn up again next year would ya? Save us all some trouble and send that bunch of Pirates away from the shores of this beautiful country all in the one hit.

It's your responsibility to do that as they're your shores. So, why don't you try some civil action against them? Charter a boat and challenge them out there? Make some phone calls? Write some letters? Sign some petitions? Attend some town halls? Start a lawsuit? Demand their arrest? Do something, mate! Your country is aiding and abetting terrorists! And tell your countrymen where their jurisdictional waters AREN'T too while you're at it! Everyone in the Australian government agrees with me, for God's sake!

I'm donating money to Sea Shepherd Australia bro. Hopefully Japan will be stopped cold in court and the ships will be deployed in other parts of the world where whales are being poached. That would be a welcome change of events that we can agree on.

Meanwhile, happening down under:

Young conservationist kicking off seven-month Australian school tour to find hundreds of new environmental change ‘champions’

http://www.seashephe...ew-environ-1532

Back to the topic, this just in!

Australia accused of 'affront' to Japan's dignity

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/18011342/japan-says-australia-lied-to-the-world-over-whaling-program/

Japan's final closing arguments end today. It will be in the judges' hands from here.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Yamato

[psyche101]

It's your responsibility to do that as they're your shores.

Mine? I am not PM, if I was to attack Watson as he does others, then I would become like him, a lowly scumbag terrorist.

So, why don't you try some civil action against them? Charter a boat and challenge them out there?

Again you are suggesting that I not only advocate vigilante action, but set up my own pirate operation to bully others in International waters??

Make some phone calls? Write some letters? Sign some petitions? Attend some town halls? Start a lawsuit? Demand their arrest? Do something, mate! Your country is aiding and abetting terrorists!

Good suggestion, I will look up the UN and German Government websites and see if there is a contact, and if they would be interested in a local spy to let them know if that Pirate sneaks into one of our harbours and if he can be arrested on Australian soil for his International charges. Thanks Yam, it would make my day if this is indeed possible, good idea.

And tell your countrymen where their jurisdictional waters AREN'T too while you're at it! Everyone in the Australian government agrees with me, for God's sake!

But I wont be contacting them, I will go over their heads as you suggested. I tell you what, if I do speak to them, maybe I could ask them if they agree with you, then why does the official Government Website have maps marking our jurisdiction that does not agree with you. You know, the map I gave you with a link showing our actual territory, and I asked you to mark on it where Japan had breached our waters and had been whaling, but you never replied, in fact each and every time I bring that map up you tend to be rather silent on the subject.

I'm donating money to Sea Shepherd Australia bro. Hopefully Japan will be stopped cold in court and the ships will be deployed in other parts of the world where whales are being poached.

Wow, what a stupid waste of money, ohh well, obviously you have plenty to throw around and do not need to think about how you spend your money.

If Australia is successful in court and ends Japanese whaling, do you get your money back?

That would be a welcome change of events that we can agree on.

Yes, despite the abrasive note of every conversation we have, at least our common goal of no more whaling remains the same.

Meanwhile, happening down under:

Young conservationist kicking off seven-month Australian school tour to find hundreds of new environmental change ‘champions’

http://www.seashephe...ew-environ-1532

Wow, just wow, the Sea Shepherd and Watson just do not give a rodents about anyone, I would not expect you to know who Bindi Irwin is, but she is Australia's foremost conservationist at this point in time and in that age group, as recognised by a real philanthropist, Dick Smith.

She could have really used the support of the Sea Shepherd, but I guess that stops at raping her father's name?

Back to the topic, this just in!

Australia accused of 'affront' to Japan's dignity

http://au.news.yahoo...haling-program/

Japan's final closing arguments end today. It will be in the judges' hands from here.

And Japan is making a big deal about Australia letting Watson dock and refuel, dead set if that miscreant mongrel stuffs up whaling yet again for everyone, like the US did with the moratorium, then you only have yourselves and other SS supporters to blame for dead whales. We did our bit and went beyond the call of duty, all we need is this bloody ego laden canadian to screw it up for everyone and it has been an entire waste of time.

Professor Akhavan accused Australia of tolerating attacks by environmental activists, like Sea Shepherd, on Japanese whaling fleets.

We can prove the whale meat was used commercially, but we have no defence of this action, if this is the reason the case is further drawn out, or lost then Watson can go down in history as the reason the second attempt to stop Japanese whaling failed. If you lot had not acted like tolitarian bullies in the first instance and told entire nations were they can or cannot go, we would not even have this situation today. Now Watson is just compounding that error. Why don't you keep your noses in your own business?

Edited July 17, 2013 by psyche101

[Yamato]

Again you are suggesting that I not only advocate vigilante action, but set up my own pirate operation to bully others in International waters??

First you claim that Sea Shepherd is in Australian waters and you tell me to do something to get them out of there. Now you're back to "international waters". So what is it? If they're in international waters, and they're not being subsidized by the Australian government, what's your problem? That they're making wee wee with whalers and gosh darnit you want to leave the beloved poachers alone? The Australian Antarctic Territory isn't international waters. Why do you forget this fact every time you return to this issue? Vigilantism is the voluntary way of keeping everyone safe. If you have to call the prime minister every time you see a crime taking place that's not going to stop crime.

Good suggestion, I will look up the UN and German Government websites and see if there is a contact, and if they would be interested in a local spy to let them know if that Pirate sneaks into one of our harbours and if he can be arrested on Australian soil for his International charges. Thanks Yam, it would make my day if this is indeed possible, good idea.

But I wont be contacting them, I will go over their heads as you suggested. I tell you what, if I do speak to them, maybe I could ask them if they agree with you, then why does the official Government Website have maps marking our jurisdiction that does not agree with you. You know, the map I gave you with a link showing our actual territory, and I asked you to mark on it where Japan had breached our waters and had been whaling, but you never replied, in fact each and every time I bring that map up you tend to be rather silent on the subject.

Australian jurisdictional waters aren't in dispute. If you want to make a fuss about that, you're on your own mate. Maps of the Australian EEZ have been provided. You denied Japanese whalers enter your EEZ. I proved they do. You ignore the proof and keep denying reality.

Yes, despite the abrasive note of every conversation we have, at least our common goal of no more whaling remains the same.

True, the difference is I support all actions bent on stopping whaling, and you offer no alternatives to Sea Shepherd other than to appease the Japanese criminals. Even this court case is "political gesturing". Maybe your own personal letters will be more worthy than this court trial, based on your comments about my idea above.

There is one small caveat of exception I'll apply to you on the lack of alternatives and that was Greenpeace. You have, ignorantly and hypocritically, applauded Greenpeace numerous times throughout your discussions on this issue for blowing the cover on Japanese commercial whaling, but you do this as if Sea Shepherd doesn't engage in espionage and as if Greenpeace doesn't engage in piracy. So there's no consistency in your opinion. Your opinions are pure politics. You're indoctrinated to beliieve what you do, and you don't care about the facts. You don't care about the lives of 930 whales, you don't see your inconsistency, you repeat the rhetoric of the Japanese government who plays by its own set of rules, and more recently the Japanese legal counsel in this trial. There's nothing there for me to believe that you're anti-whaling by any stretch of the imagination.

Wow, just wow, the Sea Shepherd and Watson just do not give a rodents about anyone, I would not expect you to know who Bindi Irwin is, but she is Australia's foremost conservationist at this point in time and in that age group, as recognised by a real philanthropist, Dick Smith. She could have really used the support of the Sea Shepherd, but I guess that stops at raping her father's name?

You should really ask Bindi Irwin for her own opinion about Sea Shepherd and "raping" her father's name before spewing such BS in front of someone who knows better. You're raping the truth.

The "second attempt" to stop Japanese whaling? The impotence of that statement is overwhelming looking at the history. They've been whaling for almost 30 years since the global moratorium. How many years does it take to make another "attempt"? The only way to stop these barbaric criminals in their tracks is by direct confrontation. Sea Shepherd didn't arrive on the scene until the 21st century began. Where in the world were you and your effective alternatives for the decades before that? You failed utterly and all you have are p*** and vinegar and a spew hole of accusations for your own failure. It's time for effective action and 930 more whales just this year alone are swimming free in the ocean today because of Sea Shepherd's courageous action.

[psyche101]

First you claim that Sea Shepherd is in Australian waters and you tell me to do something to get them out of there. Now you're back to "international waters". So what is it? If they're in international waters, and they're not being subsidized by the Australian government, what's your problem? That they're making wee wee with whalers and gosh darnit you want to leave the beloved poachers alone? The Australian Antarctic Territory isn't international waters. Why do you forget this fact every time you return to this issue? Vigilantism is the voluntary way of keeping everyone safe. If you have to call the prime minister every time you see a crime taking place that's not going to stop crime.

The SS is docking in Australian waters, and using brain dead sympathisers here to tarnish the entire nation. I do not want them here at all, you really should have picked up on that when I kept telling you they dock here.

My problem is we are drawn into the battle, and that I do not want whaling to continue. You have been blinded by Watson's rhetoric, and are unable to consider other options, allowing you to harbour the belief that the Sea Shepherd is not making the whaling situation worse than it already is.

All Antarctic "territories" are not officially recognised. Geez man, again, you are making up boundaries. You have this "it's mine" mentality that is blocking you from understanding the situation, the 1959 Antarctic treaty precedes and overrides your musings and is merely a diplomatic expression of the operational and scientific cooperation that had been achieved "on the ice". There are the same such treaties for the moon, and for outer space.

• Article 4 – The treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force;
  

Australian jurisdictional waters aren't in dispute. If you want to make a fuss about that, you're on your own mate. Maps of the Australian EEZ have been provided. You denied Japanese whalers enter your EEZ. I proved they do. You ignore the proof and keep denying reality.

Do they whale? that is what I asked?

Good to see you seem to finally be starting to understand it is NOT our jurisdiction. Taking Japan to court when they are not in our recognised waters is just a waste of time.

LINK - Japanese whaling fleet loses in court, at sea

The fleet's chaser boats were on the run last night after Sea Shepherd broke up their attempt to resupply in the Southern Ocean, far south-west of Australia.

In the action, the Japanese detained two Sea Shepherd activists, one of them Australian, who in an unprecedented act, boarded a moving whaling catcher boat in the icy Antarctic.

The two activists were being held under guard in a locked room aboard the whale catcher boat Yushin Maru No. 2 last night, according to Glenn Inwood, a spokesman for Japan's Institute of Cetacean Research.

"This is clearly an act of piracy," Mr Inwood said. "You can't just go and board vessels that are acting legally."

Japan does not recognise Australia's territorial claim in the Antarctic, and nor did its whaling company acknowledge the legal action. Despite this, Justice James Allsop ordered that whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha be restrained from killing, injuring, taking or interfering with any minke, fin, or humpback whale in the sanctuary.

We took them to court in the past over your exact claim, and the Japanese just went "so what"? The claims have to be valid.

True, the difference is I support all actions bent on stopping whaling, and you offer no alternatives to Sea Shepherd other than to appease the Japanese criminals. Even this court case is "political gesturing". Maybe your own personal letters will be more worthy than this court trial, based on your comments about my idea above.

That's all you get? Goddam Yam, no wonder I give you a hard time, you must be practising to be so obtuse, nobody is naturally this dim.

Yes this court case is likely a gesture, but time will tell and we do not have to wait long now do we? What I said was that you lot in the US need to go fix the problems created when you back-peddled on the moratorium. That is how we work down under, you wreck it, you fix it.

Yep, I have stared looking at your letter idea, there seems to be several UN information centres that I need to write to.

There is one small caveat of exception I'll apply to you on the lack of alternatives and that was Greenpeace. You have, ignorantly and hypocritically, applauded Greenpeace numerous times throughout your discussions on this issue for blowing the cover on Japanese commercial whaling, but you do this as if Sea Shepherd doesn't engage in espionage and as if Greenpeace doesn't engage in piracy. So there's no consistency in your opinion. Your opinions are pure politics. You're indoctrinated to beliieve what you do, and you don't care about the facts. You don't care about the lives of 930 whales, you don't see your inconsistency, you repeat the rhetoric of the Japanese government who plays by its own set of rules, and more recently the Japanese legal counsel in this trial. There's nothing there for me to believe that you're anti-whaling by any stretch of the imagination.

What charges of terrorist action or violence have been placed against Greenpeace? When have Greenpeace threatened others with weapons or when has Greenpeace been responsible for sinking a ship, like the Sea Shepherd did with Limpet mines? When have the Sea Shepherd gone undercover in Japan to prove without doubt that the whale meat that is supposedly for scientific purposes is definitely being sold commercially in restaurants?

Where do you think Australia's proof to show Japans Whaling scheme is not scientific but commercial come from? Not Watson, I'lll give you the tip.

No, I do not care about 930 Whales, I care about the entire population of all cetacean species and what can be done to support it, and how do we stop enticing the Japanese to come back every year. The Sea Shepherd goes out there year after year, and every following year the Japanese return, they have no valuable impact at all. They are just pirate terrorists with a TV show.

You should really ask Bindi Irwin for her own opinion about Sea Shepherd and "raping" her father's name before spewing such BS in front of someone who knows better. You're raping the truth.

You should think before you post. Notice how she mentions she cannot wait until she is 16? She is 16 next week, one week from today. I did not say she was old enough to understand that Watson was raping her fathers name, just that he did. And that the SS could have supported her, seeming as they use her fathers name and all. But like the way Watson dumped his so called life long friend Bob when Steve died to capture the publicity surrounding Steve's passing, he seems to have forgotten Bindi exists now seeming as she cannot provide him with media coverage at this point in time.

There is just nothing redeemable about Watson and his antics at all.

The "second attempt" to stop Japanese whaling? The impotence of that statement is overwhelming looking at the history. They've been whaling for almost 30 years since the global moratorium. How many years does it take to make another "attempt"? The only way to stop these barbaric criminals in their tracks is by direct confrontation. Sea Shepherd didn't arrive on the scene until the 21st century began. Where in the world were you and your effective alternatives for the decades before that? You failed utterly and all you have are p*** and vinegar and a spew hole of accusations for your own failure. It's time for effective action and 930 more whales just this year alone are swimming free in the ocean today because of Sea Shepherd's courageous action.

So the Sea Shepherd has only been ineffective for just under a decade and a half, and you think they should have another go at it do you? You must be a wonderful boss, no way to get sacked under you I would say, as it seems you cannot stuff up as long as you support it.

And the logic behind this brilliant idea is that because the US ruined the moratorium and refused to go back and fix the mistakes they made, that violence on the high seas os the next best alternative?

Strange thinking there Yam. Even for you. You go and sit in a corner and worry about 930 Whales with Watson whilst we grown ups try to stop whaling altogether OK.

Direct confrontation with the nation that produced kamikaze pilots hey Yam? Could that suggestion possible be stupider? I do not think so.

Edited July 17, 2013 by psyche101

[Yamato]

The Sea Shepherd goes out there year after year, and every following year the Japanese return, they have no valuable impact at all. They are just pirate terrorists with a TV show.

Or they're legends who have saved the lives of thousands of whales. Or not. It's just rhetoric. They don't care about your rhetoric. People can say whatever they want. SSCS doesn't give a s*** and neither do I.

You should think before you post. Notice how she mentions she cannot wait until she is 16? She is 16 next week, one week from today. I did not say she was old enough to understand that Watson was raping her fathers name, just that he did.

Now that you're caught in another lie, suddenly she's just not smart enough to know better yet because at 16, she's too young! She knows more about conservation in her little finger than you will ever know your entire life.

There is just nothing redeemable about Watson and his antics at all.

Or everything is redeemable about Watson and his brilliance. It's just rhetoric. It doesn't accomplish anything. Your opinion doesn't matter because your opinion doesn't do anything. It doesn't do anything to oppose Sea Shepherd. It doesn't do anything to save whales. It doesn't do anything to entice Japanese whalers not to whale. You're just a mouthpiece for the whaling industry, nothing more.

Direct confrontation with the nation that produced kamikaze pilots hey Yam? Could that suggestion possible be stupider? I do not think so.

LOL WW2 was as directly confrontational as you can get, and the Japanese lost badly. Sea Shepherd tactics are so effective, it's almost unbelievable how they can go up against a monolith like the Japanese government who is entitled to print theoretically endless amounts of money subsidizing these barbaric criminals, and still prevent almost the entire Japanese-imposed quota from being poached. Paul Watson has been so effective year after year it's almost hard to believe.

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's opinion matters because they're the ones that are getting things done and unfortunately they're doing your job for you. If Australia sent a few frigates to intercept the Japanese whaling fleet, this issue would be over. Japan wouldn't get kamikaze-stupid and T-bone an Australian warship at full throttle with all aboard like they did to Sea Shepherd.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Yamato

[Yamato]

The SS is docking in Australian waters,

Then like I said, go get 'em! You're spinning yourself dizzy.

My problem is we are drawn into the battle, and that I do not want whaling to continue. You have been blinded by Watson's rhetoric, and are unable to consider other options, allowing you to harbour the belief that the Sea Shepherd is not making the whaling situation worse than it already is.

Almost 30 years after Japan has been poaching in your waters and only now you're getting drawn into the battle? This is what I'm talking about. You're the epitome of not caring about this issue.

All Antarctic "territories" are not officially recognised. Geez man, again, you are making up boundaries.

Source please. As I've challenged you already and you failed to provide, find me one elected official in the entire Australian government that denies that the Australian Antarctic Territory are in Australian jurisdiction.

Do they whale? that is what I asked?

Yes they do. That's what they're there for. They've been ordered by Australia to get out. Your courts must just make up fantasy and then rule on it. Your entire government is a flaming disaster area if you're to be believed.

Good to see you seem to finally be starting to understand it is NOT our jurisdiction.

There's no question in anyone's mind but yours anywhere in Australia I've ever seen that the Australian EEZ is the jurisdiction of its respective country.

Taking Japan to court when they are not in our recognised waters is just a waste of time.

Kissing their rear ends is too and that's all you really agree with. Everything is a waste of time to you and you have no alternatives. That's not worthy of respect on my thread which showcases the best action against Japanese whalers anywhere.

We took them to court in the past over your exact claim, and the Japanese just went "so what"? The claims have to be valid.

There are no rules they're beholden to but their own. They're above the law. And that's why they're being owned by a small band of volunteers from Sea Shepherd, and being taken to court by Australia. You can't level any criticism of your crooks anywhere to be seen. You are an apologist and an appeaser of Japanese whaling.

Yep, I have stared looking at your letter idea, there seems to be several UN information centres that I need to write to.

Write those letters right away! Get off your couch and DO SOMETHING to solve your problems already!

What charges of terrorist action or violence have been placed against Greenpeace?

http://www.organicco...nmark051605.cfm

When have Greenpeace threatened others with weapons

LOL you're truly lost.

[media=]http://youtu.be/Gr55mQI2la8[/media]

When have the Sea Shepherd gone undercover in Japan to prove without doubt that the whale meat that is supposedly for scientific purposes is definitely being sold commercially in restaurants?

So only this one example of espionage is considered by you to be valuable to conservation?

The slaughter of 20,000 dolphins, porpoises, and small whales occurs in Japan each year. Starting on September 1st and usually continuing through March of the next year, fishermen herd whole families of small cetaceans into a shallow bays and mercilessly stab and drown them to death.

This annual slaughter of dolphins was virtually unknown until 2003 when Sea Shepherd globally released covertly-obtained film and photographs of the now infamous bloody “Cove” in a village called Taiji. Starting in 2010 and continuing to this day, Sea Shepherd has a ongoing presence of volunteers standing watch on site at the Cove. They are The Cove Guardians.

http://www.seashepherd.org/cove-guardians/

No, I do not care about 930 Whales

No, you sure as hell don't.

I care about the entire population of all cetacean species and what can be done to support it

Sitting on your couch for almost 20 years and accomplishing absolutely nothing until Sea Shepherd showed up on the scene and started taking a bite out of the Japanese poaching fleet wasn't it. And all your 20th century excuses for doing nothing that have nothing to do with Sea Shepherd proves you're beyond blame and only interested in blaming others for your own decadence, your own responsibility, and your own jurisdictional waters.

Let's review the Australian Antarctic Territory once again:

The Australian Antarctic Territory (AAT) is a part of Antarctica. It was claimed by the United Kingdom and placed under the authority of the Commonwealth of Australia in 1933. It is the largest territory of Antarctica claimed by any nation. Since the Antarctic Treaty came into force in 1961, Article 4 of which states "The treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force", most countries do not recognise territorial claims in Antarctica.^[1]

http://en.wikipedia....rctic_Territory

You're citing Article 4 to me for some reason and it clearly states that it is completely neutral and does not affect what was placed under the Commonwealth of Australia in 1933. You can't handle the Commonwealth of Australia! And you're really an Australian? This is pathetic mate, truly.

Further reading reveals:

Japan (and psyche101 of course!) does not recognise this claim, and Japan does not recognise the Australian claim to the Australian Antarctic territorial waters in which Japanese ships conduct whaling. [1]

http://www.austlii.e...ku Kaisha, Ltd)

Edited July 17, 2013 by Yamato