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-Night_hawk-

what if, what then?

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I'm a believer and christian, but not closed minded to all things around us, there too many things we don't know or understand..

Anyway, my question is....

We interpret the end times in the bible and revelations to rapture, when jesus returns, as being sumtym soon, in our own lifetime maybe, we interpret signs and wonders around the world as being signs of that time drawing near....what if in 200 or 300 years us humans are still here, hurtling ourselves through space and being that advanced, like a star trek scenario....how would we interpret the bible end times then? Or do we just keep moving the belief along each generation until evetually it happens or doesn't....the bible has been around a long time, and I'm sure ppl back then believed th same thing, saying "it must be soon" to themselves....

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What are you really worried about? You know we all die at some point, so what is?

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it seems that you have more then one question.

revelations has been interpreted again and again, and those interpretations have been seen through a "biased experience filter" of the person interpreting it.

the concept of "the rapture" was brought about by Joseph Smith, and has been in the book of Mormon, and the texts of the Jehovah witnesses..

in both of the texts there is issue with what revelations has to say.

i am not going to bash any faith here.

its not my place.

but i shall point out that both sects of Christianity are flawed, in that Joseph Smith had made many predictions, and none of them came to pass...

so, in the aspect of him declaring himself a prophet... he proved himself a false prophet..

so with this reasoning... i find the concept of the rapture to be a fantasy...

there is weak evidence that is always being put forth...

but in the same manner we interpret our own experiences through our own "biased experience filter" ...

the justification of it being true? is a personal opinion to each individual...

as for what will happen tomorrow?

that is for each of us to create for ourselves...

we can dwell on the possibility of doom and gloom.....

and in the process miss the beauty and wonder around us every day...

where we dwell in our thoughts, manifests in what we perceive in the world..

look at what you do in your life, and what you manifest....

if it all comes up good?

nothing to worry about....

if there are things that you would like to change?

change them and stop worrying.....

if and when these things come to pass...

your peace within yourself is what matters most....

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Since time immemorial, folk have concerned themselves with "the end". Most probably started when the first cave dweller saw that the sun was sinking in the sky and wondered "Is this the end?", and we have been doing it ever since. Once upon a time, in one of the myriad "Doomsday" threads, I posted a partial list of all the supposed prophecies about the final days. It probably needs updating, but I digress. Point is, stop looking for the end and instead enjoy what you have while you have it. Be good to yourself, be better to others, and never forget to LIVE your life.

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..the bible has been around a long time, and I'm sure ppl back then believed th same thing, saying "it must be soon" to themselves....

Indeed, that is exactly what the apostle Paul preached. Turns out he was wrong.

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In my opinion the only "evidence" we are given as believers in Christ are words He is reported to have uttered. He said that He was telling His disciples what would happen in the future so that when they saw it they would remember and believe. Religious faith is precisely that... FAITH. Those who demand proof have refused to believe - as is their prerogative. I do not condemn them. I once argued prophecy here and was roundly dismissed (my arguments) because most will accept prophecy no sooner than they will accept Faith in God. But I say this - if Damascus Syria is one day soon destroyed OVERNIGHT(Isaiah 17) and people still will not admit that it was foretold in scriptures about 2600 years old then there is no hope for them, they have chosen. I find that sad but it does not anger me. I am not invested in their eternity once I have spoken the truth as I see it. God Himself said that if He appoints a watchman and that man fails to warn the people then he(the watchman) is guilty of their blood if they perish in ignorance. All a Christian is called to do is love his brothers and tell them the good news of Christ's sacrifice for them. What they do with it is then their responsibility. I do not understand God's plan for us nor do I think that all that passes for religion in this world is righteous. A man chooses the best he can. ALL people do. That is all anyone can ask of themselves.

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I can't resist telling a story and ending with a question maybe someone can answer.

When I was in college in the US, I was something of a budding Communist atheist, but I was also going through typical college angst about my mortality and accepted a series of "Bible studies" from a Jehovah's Witnesses couple. They taught me that Matthew 24 was clear evidence that we are (or I should say "were," since this was almost fifty years ago) in the "end times." Through various complicated (and not terribly credible) arguments they concluded that these end times began in 1914 and, most importantly, that the generation alive in that year would not pass away until Armageddon came.

Anyone can do the arithmetic. I see that this group is still around. Does anyone know what they have done with that prediction, since it seems to me they don't have much if any time left.

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I can't resist telling a story and ending with a question maybe someone can answer.

When I was in college in the US, I was something of a budding Communist atheist, but I was also going through typical college angst about my mortality and accepted a series of "Bible studies" from a Jehovah's Witnesses couple. They taught me that Matthew 24 was clear evidence that we are (or I should say "were," since this was almost fifty years ago) in the "end times." Through various complicated (and not terribly credible) arguments they concluded that these end times began in 1914 and, most importantly, that the generation alive in that year would not pass away until Armageddon came.

Anyone can do the arithmetic. I see that this group is still around. Does anyone know what they have done with that prediction, since it seems to me they don't have much if any time left.

The "end times" or last days need not be considered as lasting only a brief period of time. And I know that statement can easily be attacked as making excuses. When I see people expressing doubts about the truth of scripture and whether it is truly coming to pass today I think of a bit of dialogue in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. One of the knights of Theoden of Rohan doubted the evidence of his eyes when he saw ancient lore being fulfilled in his presence. He asked if they were not living in the light of day and reality or was he seeing something of legend. He was asked why he doubted something just because it was coming true in his lifetime - I paraphrase.
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I want to know why Hal Lindsey is still in "business". His 1978 book, The Late, Great Planet Earth, sold 28 million copies and was made into a movie with Orson Welles. It predicted the Second Coming no later than 1988.

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The "end times" or last days need not be considered as lasting only a brief period of time. And I know that statement can easily be attacked as making excuses. When I see people expressing doubts about the truth of scripture and whether it is truly coming to pass today I think of a bit of dialogue in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. One of the knights of Theoden of Rohan doubted the evidence of his eyes when he saw ancient lore being fulfilled in his presence. He asked if they were not living in the light of day and reality or was he seeing something of legend. He was asked why he doubted something just because it was coming true in his lifetime - I paraphrase.

You are right about how easy it is to attack your statement as making excuses. That is what it seems all Bible believers do whenever there is a problem -- they rationalize.

I read Matthew 24 and similar things in the Bible and look at the world. I see no particularly compelling similarities. If the Bible passages were more specific (say telling us of an earthquake causing a tidal wave on Thailand's beaches) it would be more convincing.

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I'm a believer and christian, but not closed minded to all things around us, there too many things we don't know or understand..

Anyway, my question is....

We interpret the end times in the bible and revelations to rapture, when jesus returns, as being sumtym soon, in our own lifetime maybe, we interpret signs and wonders around the world as being signs of that time drawing near....what if in 200 or 300 years us humans are still here, hurtling ourselves through space and being that advanced, like a star trek scenario....how would we interpret the bible end times then? Or do we just keep moving the belief along each generation until evetually it happens or doesn't....the bible has been around a long time, and I'm sure ppl back then believed th same thing, saying "it must be soon" to themselves....

It's just like gossip, example:

Joe Blow says the sky is blue to Joe Smow, Joe Smow then tells Jane Smow the sky is blue because there is nothing but water in space, Jane Smow then tells Jane Blow that every star in space is a fish.

The point, gossip is always greatly exaggerated, false and changes from one person to another.

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Since time immemorial, folk have concerned themselves with "the end". Most probably started when the first cave dweller saw that the sun was sinking in the sky and wondered "Is this the end?", and we have been doing it ever since. Once upon a time, in one of the myriad "Doomsday" threads, I posted a partial list of all the supposed prophecies about the final days. It probably needs updating, but I digress. Point is, stop looking for the end and instead enjoy what you have while you have it. Be good to yourself, be better to others, and never forget to LIVE your life.

Do my eyes deceive me. They must, for I'm seeing JMPD1 online again after God only knows how long. Good to see you again, buddy. Long time no see. Hope this is more than just a fly-by-night (well, a post-by-night) expedition. Best wishes ;)
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Your eyes doth see true, for verily I have returned, as was prophesied in the elder texts of the interweb!

I do believe that my return is one of the signs of the end times. Just sayin...... :yes:

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Yes, there's been a lot of that "signs of the apocalypse" thingamabob happening. I remember recently agreeing with a particular member whom I never agree with. Now that you're back, this strengthens the apocalyptic hypothesis. Hope you restocked your bomb shelter recently :devil:

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But how many false prophets have been made all these years?

Every religion have made claims and were wrong.

Even the whole 2012 thing.

Youtube if flooded with all these "end times" crap.

The only thing I see Pastors and nuts getting rich

off stupid people who actually believe that crap..

and they just laugh to the bank...

Here is a news flash.. in every world empire..

there was war... natural disasters and crime....

there is nothing special about now...

The only difference is now..

you have the radio, TV, and net to report about it instantly..

as in old times...

it took very long to get a letter by horse...

and even then you didn't know everything happening in the world...

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You are right about how easy it is to attack your statement as making excuses. That is what it seems all Bible believers do whenever there is a problem -- they rationalize.

I read Matthew 24 and similar things in the Bible and look at the world. I see no particularly compelling similarities. If the Bible passages were more specific (say telling us of an earthquake causing a tidal wave on Thailand's beaches) it would be more convincing.

Isaiah wrote 2600 years ago that a specific city (Damascus) would be destroyed overnight. At the same time the central part of Israel would be devastated as well. It hasn't happened yet, indeed could not happen until relatively recently. Does it seem so improbable to you that it might just happen at any time? Or at least that it COULD? Don't mistake me Frank, I couldn't really care less whether you believe scripture. It isn't my job to convince you or anyone else by beating you over the head with my faith. My point here is that most people these days will do precisely what you are doing - demand more proof - EVEN if those two events were to happen next week. There will always be a reason for some to say nope, prophecy is silly. All I can say is rock on, man. See you on the other side :)

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion the only "evidence" we are given as believers in Christ are words He is reported to have uttered. He said that He was telling His disciples what would happen in the future so that when they saw it they would remember and believe. Religious faith is precisely that... FAITH. Those who demand proof have refused to believe - as is their prerogative. I do not condemn them. I once argued prophecy here and was roundly dismissed (my arguments) because most will accept prophecy no sooner than they will accept Faith in God. But I say this - if Damascus Syria is one day soon destroyed OVERNIGHT(Isaiah 17) and people still will not admit that it was foretold in scriptures about 2600 years old then there is no hope for them, they have chosen. I find that sad but it does not anger me. I am not invested in their eternity once I have spoken the truth as I see it. God Himself said that if He appoints a watchman and that man fails to warn the people then he(the watchman) is guilty of their blood if they perish in ignorance. All a Christian is called to do is love his brothers and tell them the good news of Christ's sacrifice for them. What they do with it is then their responsibility. I do not understand God's plan for us nor do I think that all that passes for religion in this world is righteous. A man chooses the best he can. ALL people do. That is all anyone can ask of themselves.

If it was destroyed overnight I would feel two things. First, saddened at the loss of life regardless of weather it was natural, accidental or deliberate destruction. Secondly, I'd be concerned because people would point to it and go, 'the end is coming!' and either use it to create panic and discord, force conversions or start wars to 'hasten' the end times. because believe me, some religious nut or other would use it as an ecuse to go on a illing spree or otherwise cause trouble and I don't want that.

Prophecy is an odd thing in that it only seems to truly matter in hindsight. Look at the prophecies of Nostradamous for exxample and see how many people have used to go 'look he meant this!' and yet half the time the prophecie themselves are so vague they really could mean anything to such an extent they're virtually useless.

End times prophecy is something we should all be concerned with because history has shown that crazy people will use them to kill. Many have died due to end time cults already and I really have no desire to see history repeating itself on a grander scale.

Edited by shadowhive
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This is my take on time, Time is change, a kind of river of change. Now I am going to sacrifice myself to the skeptics and set off on to the path of nuttiness. I can only tell you my observation. I have know many, many people who tell fortunes. Most are hacks, but every once in a while I come across one that is consistent and pretty detailed. When I mean consistent they do it over and over. They are usually the ones who do it for free, too. I ask one of them how do you do it. He says he lays out the cards and they tell him a story. I can't do it might because I really don't want to know.

I watch this guy do a friend's reading. My friend getting the reading races funny cars. The friend reading the cards tells him he is going have a lot of money change hands, it has to do with car and it benefits him and it is coming from far away. Within a day out of the blue, 2 guys from the Ukraine called him to buy one of his cars. It hadn't been up for sale he really wasn't planning on selling it. They offered him a lot money and they took the car to the Ukraine. You could have knock me over with a feather.

I have notice the farther ahead prediction the less actuate it is. Usually when it happens it is within a month.

That beings us to the Bible, who knows what the guy was actually writing about and how many words were changed in coping. Mushroom soup anyone? If the guy was sitting there telling me it was going to happen in a month and I had seen him do it before I might look up. 1500 years you have lost the probability wave. To much has changed. Take it as you will.

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