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Should New Laws Be Passed.

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/02/terrorism-british-columbia-canada-day/2485049/

The homegrown variety of terrorists seem to be on the uptick. Since they have the capacity to be far more damaging than those who must first find a way INTO our countries, should the penalties be more severe since they are being traitors? If a Canadian or American is willing to kill fellow citizens indiscriminately for their religious beliefs then I think they deserve to be singled out for harsher punishment. What say you all?

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For what purpose -- punishment or deterrence?

If for deterrence, punishments won't work. The best deterrence is a near-certainty of being foiled, and this would call for even more domestic spying.

If for punishment, why? Vengeance?

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For what purpose -- punishment or deterrence?

If for deterrence, punishments won't work. The best deterrence is a near-certainty of being foiled, and this would call for even more domestic spying.

If for punishment, why? Vengeance?

No punishment will stop 100% of any type of crime. But the numbers of individuals who would toy with the idea of betraying their homeland would be reduced if they knew of a certainty that they would be executed for such a crime. I do not consider all punishment to be a form of vengeance, do you? And I would rather have the attack occur, punish the perpetrators and move on living in a freer society than to have more spying being done. Safety is an illusion anyway.
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Posted (edited)

I don't think I'm alone when I say that we should bring back such classics as the rack and being hanged, drawn and quartered.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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No punishment will stop 100% of any type of crime. But the numbers of individuals who would toy with the idea of betraying their homeland would be reduced if they knew of a certainty that they would be executed for such a crime. I do not consider all punishment to be a form of vengeance, do you? And I would rather have the attack occur, punish the perpetrators and move on living in a freer society than to have more spying being done. Safety is an illusion anyway.

I don't think punishment by itself deters crimes. The people who are deterred would do not it anyway -- the criminal mind is a little different and manages not to think about consequences -- that is why they are criminals. Now some aspects of a given punishment may reduce crime -- such as putting a criminal out of circulation -- that works, but the only deterrence that is effective is knowledge that failure is a virtual certainty.

With regard to terrorists who have political or religious motivations, they also have massive egos and hate the fact that most of the world ignores them, so they go for some act that will give them influence. I just don't see how punishments will help here. Indeed, such things only feed their self-righteousness and feeling of being persecuted that they thrive on. I repeat myself -- the only thing to do to stop them is have massive internal surveillance. I don't think that is yet in the cards, but one day when an American city goes up, it will be.

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Posted (edited)

With homegrown terrorism, (citizens that perfom terrorist acts) they could and should be trialed for Treason and Genocide which would serverly increase the penalties... They thought of that one quite some time ago, remember you guys had a Civil War, there would've been forms of what we view of terrorist acts performed by all parties involved to increase their potential of winning the war. Well in all wars in fact, we call it espionage in war, cyber criminal by non-funded. In all honestly personally I think the only reason they class it as or even have the term terrorism is because it is not uniformed soilders.

So even when you want to declare war... you need to be a "wealth" inherritent.

*I DO NOT CONDONE THE WAR OR THE ACTS SURROUNDING/INVOLVED (INCL. ALL ASSOSIATED TERMS CREATED FOR LABELING IN SUCH) IN THE WORLD OVER THE PAST 15-20 YEARS*

****... you realise how screwed we really are as a whole, when you have to use a disclaimer to try discuss a subject without becoming a person of interest :S

Edited by chopmo
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http://www.usatoday....da-day/2485049/

The homegrown variety of terrorists seem to be on the uptick. Since they have the capacity to be far more damaging than those who must first find a way INTO our countries, should the penalties be more severe since they are being traitors? If a Canadian or American is willing to kill fellow citizens indiscriminately for their religious beliefs then I think they deserve to be singled out for harsher punishment. What say you all?

I think you are psychotic bro. ... your faith is blinding you from the truth.

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It's obviously not enough to try them as terrorists and murderers, gotta add a treason charge in there. Well would you support extending that charge of treason to say, Oliver North who sold weapons to Iran and lied about it? Or is it just young angry Muslims?

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Domestic terrorism is on the up tic?

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For a quick answer, No.

For a long answer. If we start tailoring punishments to the individual how long before it becomes one person gets this type of punishment because of these set of personal factors and this person gets this punishment because of these personal factors. Yes I understand in some regards this happens today but it isn't written into Law it usually happens based on geographical Location. Domestic Terrorists are the same and should be treated the same (with possibly the added charges of treason) as foreign terrorists. They have a political goal that they want to convey by the mass murder.

There is no deterrence for terrorism, the best thing we can do is try and catch them. Which the Police have been doing a great job with help and thanks to the Muslim community (at least in Canada).

No need for new laws.

~Thanato

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No. There are enough laws to cover any contingency. Including domestic terrorism.

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There are already enough laws, and transgression of laws, to fight terrorism. No need for more BS. Instead they should waste their breath on fighting terrorism.

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For a quick answer, No.

For a long answer. If we start tailoring punishments to the individual how long before it becomes one person gets this type of punishment because of these set of personal factors and this person gets this punishment because of these personal factors. Yes I understand in some regards this happens today but it isn't written into Law it usually happens based on geographical Location. Domestic Terrorists are the same and should be treated the same (with possibly the added charges of treason) as foreign terrorists. They have a political goal that they want to convey by the mass murder.

There is no deterrence for terrorism, the best thing we can do is try and catch them. Which the Police have been doing a great job with help and thanks to the Muslim community (at least in Canada).

No need for new laws.

~Thanato

Yea man. The FBI is doing such a great job, that when they run outta terrorists to find, they find half retarded people to radicalize, fund, give them the terror plot from at to z and supply them (so they think) with the weapons to do it. It is down right scary how far they go to get us to believe terrorists are around every corner. And every new DHS training video that comes out shows the typical white middle class folks plotting terrorism. I think this threads existance shows how some people are buying it too. No offense and then.

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Posted (edited)

Without going too deeply into the subject matter, no, new laws are superfluous. We already have laws against murder, arson, assault, conspiracy and thousands of other crimes that we have trouble enforcing as it is. New laws just make it more confusing for law enforcement. What is really needed is better training and funding, not more "feel good" legislation that will, in all likelihood, be used against the wrong people. Domestic terrorists will still do their thing, but some poor kid who shows a moment of bad judgement and makes a joke about shooting people in public, will get a life sentence. Sadly, this is what happens with most of these new laws.

Edited by P4UL N0153
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Yea man. The FBI is doing such a great job, that when they run outta terrorists to find, they find half retarded people to radicalize, fund, give them the terror plot from at to z and supply them (so they think) with the weapons to do it. It is down right scary how far they go to get us to believe terrorists are around every corner. And every new DHS training video that comes out shows the typical white middle class folks plotting terrorism. I think this threads existance shows how some people are buying it too. No offense and then.

Show me proof, the in the US the FBI is making domestic terrorists and training them, etc. Proof with out resonable doubt.

~Thanato

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No news laws need to be passed, but a heap of those passed at the altar of the GWOT need to be repealed.

Also, many of the laws on the books already against various crimes need to be enforced so that some criminals in government are prosecuted.

But, I know that ain't gonna happen.

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Should Americans be this retarded?

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Should Americans be this retarded?

A country never is better than the sum of its citizens.

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Posted (edited)

http://www.usatoday....da-day/2485049/

The homegrown variety of terrorists seem to be on the uptick. Since they have the capacity to be far more damaging than those who must first find a way INTO our countries, should the penalties be more severe since they are being traitors? If a Canadian or American is willing to kill fellow citizens indiscriminately for their religious beliefs then I think they deserve to be singled out for harsher punishment. What say you all?

Years ago they used to hang people for doing that, they called it - Treason ..The violation of allegiance to ones state..

So, if a person uses not only a belief in faith BUT a political reasoning, for another country (they most likely never set foot in) and they kill their own citizens as a result ( revenge, tit for tat killings ) then yes, that falls under treason.

If I am wrong, then so be it, but I am nearly sure that's right..

I say, if you love your own country, then you should not ever turn agianst your own citizens to slaughter them for another country's war etc... If you do this, not only are you a grade A traitor, .. Now I do not care who the heck has a problem with me saying that, but that's how I see it...

How many people in places like IE - Iraq, would go ahead and slaughter their own kind to stick up for the US or Britain, and turn to make a political statement to their OWN people..?

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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A country never is better than the sum of its citizens.

Illegal partisan citizens who can't remember the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights for their favorite lawling-come-lately.

Partisans blaming the government, voting for their partisan bureaucrats in election after election finding all the blame in the other side of the aisle instead of looking in the mirror. That's the practical measure of the goodness of this country.

I spent two solid years agreeing with a "conservative" offering little more than contempt for every manifestation of Democratic-party governance until days before they closed the History Channel forums down when it culminated into this:

"I love the government and I'm trying to save it." -- Yamato

"I hate the government and I want to destroy it." -- Peck

Sometimes it takes that long to find out what people are really made of. It's a matter of sheer incidence that I don't like Democratic-party policy, just like it's incident after incident after incident that proves the failure of Republican-party policy. The Republicans had control of this government for years, and all they did was spend record amounts of money and make government bigger. Oh but they give great speech and won an election. The Tea Partiers. What a racket they turned out to be. Voting for illegal war in Libya in lockstep unison to the man. Where are their voices of opposition for the federal government defiling the 4th Amendment today? No, it's this law and that law that they care about. Forget Article 1. They can't even handle the War Powers Act. What's the politically convenient way to break the law in this country today?

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Maybe I am just a "psychopath" -wow, really? - but I think traitors need a special justice that is swift and sure. If we cannot defend the nation against internal PROVEN threats then it's game over. I'm not talking about the government stupidity that we deal with daily. I'm talking about actually catching them in the act, put an end to them quickly kind of justice. No apologies from me for that.

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Maybe I am just a "psychopath" -wow, really? - but I think traitors need a special justice that is swift and sure. If we cannot defend the nation against internal PROVEN threats then it's game over. I'm not talking about the government stupidity that we deal with daily. I'm talking about actually catching them in the act, put an end to them quickly kind of justice. No apologies from me for that.

Right, we need new nanny laws from Washington DC to keep us safe! Not reading the Constitution or amending what's inadequate in it is the American way. Quickly now, before another threat gets us! What's Bloomberg's Red White and Blue speech going to say tomorrow?

Must...have...new federal raids on those Mormon compounds, since everyone in and out of DC knows those Texas Rangers are a bunch of lackeys. :wacko:

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The act, not the reason for it, should be the focus of justice. Murder is murder and it should not matter whether the murder was part of a treasonous act or just an ordinary crime.

We see this with special legislation regarding "hate crimes." The public wants some sort of special punishment, and politicians respond, but to me a rape is a rape regardless of whether it was done out of, say, racial prejudice or just normal male power perversion.

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IMG_5456-300x283.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Maybe I am just a "psychopath" -wow, really?

Its the internet, there will always be a few that will ironically call you a psychopath for agreeing with some form of punishment for acts of mass murder / murder.. It is too ironic...I see this a lot on the boards..

For example - You read a story about...A child at 3 getting raped, stabbed and their little body ditched... You feel angered ( like most will do after reading something so vile and shocking ) and you express your opinions, saying something like - I think this sick git should face the death penalty OR never see the light of day, he is one vile excuse for a human being...

Along will come the over the top liberals to shame you, sticking up for the criminal, ( The irony escapes them ) .. telling you that you are just as bad as the criminal ( for a mere opinion ) and make you out to be a raving psychopath OR whatever over the top name they can think of.......AND.... they will bark at you for calling them a vile excuse for a human.. You will hear the - HOW DARE YOU clap trap.. These are people I cannot trust..I sometimes wonder if they are the ones that are truly focused.. ?

One of these type of folk said to me..."BM the murderer has rights".. I said - "Yes indeed, the right to remain silent once arrested, and the right to spend his life behind bars.".. I never care what they think of me...I never feel the need to care.

EDIT.. Reading my entire post, is merely an in general overall statement, hence the examples I made up at random etc.... I thought anyone reading can see this but just in case..It is not aimed at any one person or any particular event.. Lets hope anyone else can see this...

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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