Serial killers

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Iv been fascinated with serial killers since I first turned 16, Iv read many books about them how they are created, nurture vs nature and all of that, I think it can be a number of different things that can turn someone into a serial killer. But I always hear the victims of these serial killers say that there emotionless and so on. Are they truly emotionless though, I mean they feel fear, excitement, happiness, the point is they feel the same emotions a lot of non killers do. The lack of a conscious is relative also, because Ed Kemper actually turned himself in because he knew that If he didn't he would continue to kill. He felt great remorse and even wanted a lobotomy to cut out the section of his brain that made him want to kill. I'm in no way condoning what serial killers do also hell I think David Berkowitz should have been given the death penalty, but lucked out because at the time there was no death penalty in the state that he was living.

[SHaYap]

I've read a lot about the Famous Cases and one thing that stood out as consistent throughout the modern serial killers is that they're are all more often than not very 'normal' 'harmless' and even 'friendly' or 'loveable' in their day to day demeanor. Partly the reason why they are so 'successful' and managed to get away with numerous murders for a lengthy period of time.

The most frightening thing to me is how they can convince themselves that killing is the most normal thing that they do too ... they can kill someone in the most brutal fashion imaginable and then sit down to have dinner while watching TV the very next minute.

~

[Q-C]

I've read a lot about the Famous Cases and one thing that stood out as consistent throughout the modern serial killers is that they're are all more often than not very 'normal' 'harmless' and even 'friendly' or 'loveable' in their day to day demeanor. Partly the reason why they are so 'successful' and managed to get away with numerous murders for a lengthy period of time.

The most frightening thing to me is how they can convince themselves that killing is the most normal thing that they do too ... they can kill someone in the most brutal fashion imaginable and then sit down to have dinner while watching TV the very next minute.

~

Or leave their victims dying while they go in and eat dinner with the wife and kids. (1950's? serial killer can't remember his name)

For me, in instances like this, something is not wired like the rest of us.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Yeah its like they can literally become a different person, I once heard the term compartmentalization which is what a lot of serial killers seem to be able to do. Ted Bundy had everyone shocked when they realized what he had been doing

Edited July 4, 2013 by R4z3rsPar4d0x

[SHaYap]

From a Psychological point of view it is actually the opposite in some cases ... they are wired too perfectly black and white ... yes and no ... can and cannot ... will and wont

When they see the world they see it as perfectly contrasted ... feel good and feel bad ... and they have absolute confidence in themselves ... even in jail you can see that they mostly claims that they were caught because they wanted to be caught ... no one is better or more capable than them.

The religious ones are the worse ... as they are more prone to be the sexual predators ... and preys on children.

~edit : dyslexia attack

`

Edited July 4, 2013 by third_eye

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

But don't you think the whole them wanting to be caught is just said because they have such an ego? I mean a lot of them want to be known for what they've done such as the BTK killer. But I highly doubt Ted Bundy wanted to be caught. I mean because they have to know the consequences of being caught are probably gonna be a life sentence or even the death penalty

Edited July 4, 2013 by R4z3rsPar4d0x

[SHaYap]

But don't you think the whole them wanting to be caught is just said because they have such an ego? I mean a lot of them want to be known for what they've done such as the BTK killer. But I highly doubt Ted Bundy wanted to be caught. I mean because they have to know the consequences of being caught are probably gonna be a life sentence or even the death penalty

According to what I read about the investigation in Bundy's case the officials believed Ted ... he left clues and became erratic with last few murders ... drove stolen cars ... almost got arrested ... got arrested and escaped. When he was under custody he declared that he wished that the arresting officer had 'killed him' over and over again ... maybe is was his ego toying with the authorities but all in all he changed his MO to his disadvantage. I guess you could see it from the other perspective that his own ego got him caught but in Ted's case ... he was always one step ahead because he kept himself one step ahead throughout the years.

He even got married during his trial ... and had a child ... a daughter if I remember correctly ...

One of the things that I remember most of all is something one of the FBI agents said ...

Ted couldn't understand why people cant accept the fact that he killed because he wanted to ...

or something to that effect ... I don't remember exactly ... it was a long time ago ...

I started getting into all this when I happened on the book about the Zodiac Killer ... and of course the most famous one of all ... the Silence of The Lambs

~

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

I thought Ted in the interviews after being caught described the way he did the murders, like for instance he would say " and then he would drag her through the dirt and then bash her head" I don't know if that's the second or third person he was talking in, then when the death penalty was getting near he blamed it all on hard*spam filter*ography as to the reason why he killed.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Or leave their victims dying while they go in and eat dinner with the wife and kids. (1950's? serial killer can't remember his name)

For me, in instances like this, something is not wired like the rest of us.

Was this in the United States or some other country?were the victims female or males?

Edited July 4, 2013 by R4z3rsPar4d0x

[Q-C]

Was this in the United States or some other country?were the victims female or males?

United States. His victims were female and he would kill them in his garage. He lived in a neighborhood, had a wife and I'm pretty sure kids. I just tried to find him in a serial killer database. Surely someone on UM knows who he is. I am pretty sure it was the 1950's possibly the early '60's?

[Q-C]

Sorry, I watched three shows on different serial killers late one night a few weeks a go and they are running together in my recollection. But it reinacted him hanging a young woman in his garage and then going inside to eat dinner before she was even dead.

[Q-C]

Was this in the United States or some other country?were the victims female or males?

Jerry Brudos. It was the late 60's. He had a wife and 2 kids.

[Antilles]

Made a good point about Bundy. He did talk about how the murders were carried out by 'he'. Bundy used he instead of I. Now, you could argue he did this because he couldn't accept the burden this placed on him because he was a serial killer so he described the murders having been carried out by someone else. He moves the killer into 3rd person so Bundy won't be responsible.

Or, like me, you could just accept that he was a repellent little creep who got his rocks off terrorising and murdering helpless girls who all reminded him of the girl who jilted him.

And before you mention it, yes, he was very attractive to women and very normal in his behaviour. Ann Rule never saw the monster lurking underneath his surface charm.

There are serial killers who are physically quite repulsive but on the whole they look and act like anyone else. Until the rage/blood lust/desire explodes inside them. Look at Dr Harold Shipman. Killed more people in England than probably anyone else. He didn't look like a circus freak.

A successful serial killer has to be able to hunt.

[SHaYap]

In Ted's case I think it is best to separate the trial Ted and the serial killer Ted ... during the trial he was a totally different animal and he was very confident of beating the law in law's own backyard ... I also believe the media made more of his excuse on p0rn that it was ... he only went down that alley briefly during the end of his trial when it was apparent that the was going to get the death verdict ... while on death row and being interviewed by the FBI he was not so generous with crediting p0rn for his desire to kill ... in fact most of his victims weren't assaulted sexually ... they were sadistically assaulted sexually ... he was more interested in killing than sex so to speak.

~

[Antilles]

In Ted's case I think it is best to separate the trial Ted and the serial killer Ted ... during the trial he was a totally different animal and he was very confident of beating the law in law's own backyard ... I also believe the media made more of his excuse on p0rn that it was ... he only went down that alley briefly during the end of his trial when it was apparent that the was going to get the death verdict ... while on death row and being interviewed by the FBI he was not so generous with crediting p0rn for his desire to kill ... in fact most of his victims weren't assaulted sexually ... they were sadistically assaulted sexually ... he was more interested in killing than sex so to speak.

~

I think you're pretty well right except about the charm. He used that on everyone. That's how he escaped from prison in Colorado - he was allowed to use the law library. He opened a window and jumped to freedom. And more murder. Even the judge in Florida where Bundy acted as his own lawyer wished him luck.

I agree with you about the sex. He wasn't interested in that. The thrill for him was in the murder. Actually, it was probably more in the terror those girls went through when they finally recognised the monster that stood before them.

But he wouldn't have 'got' his victims without the charm. And fake leg plaster. But still, the charm.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Jerry Brudos. It was the late 60's. He had a wife and 2 kids.

Jerry Brudos yeah he was a monster, and a **********c

Made a good point about Bundy. He did talk about how the murders were carried out by 'he'. Bundy used he instead of I. Now, you could argue he did this because he couldn't accept the burden this placed on him because he was a serial killer so he described the murders having been carried out by someone else. He moves the killer into 3rd person so Bundy won't be responsible.

Or, like me, you could just accept that he was a repellent little creep who got his rocks off terrorising and murdering helpless girls who all reminded him of the girl who jilted him.

And before you mention it, yes, he was very attractive to women and very normal in his behaviour. Ann Rule never saw the monster lurking underneath his surface charm.

There are serial killers who are physically quite repulsive but on the whole they look and act like anyone else. Until the rage/blood lust/desire explodes inside them. Look at Dr Harold Shipman. Killed more people in England than probably anyone else. He didn't look like a circus freak.

A successful serial killer has to be able to hunt.

Yeah there's no doubt in my mind that he liked every minute of what he did to those girls/woman, I was always found it fascinating the way he talked in those interviews as if he was describing someone else's murders. Because at first he denied doing them, and said that as long as the police were so focused on him that the killer that he claimed was out there was going to keep killing. Then later I thought he said something like there's this entity inside me that takes over and I do stuff I would never even think of doing

I think you're pretty well right except about the charm. He used that on everyone. That's how he escaped from prison in Colorado - he was allowed to use the law library. He opened a window and jumped to freedom. And more murder. Even the judge in Florida where Bundy acted as his own lawyer wished him luck.

I agree with you about the sex. He wasn't interested in that. The thrill for him was in the murder. Actually, it was probably more in the terror those girls went through when they finally recognised the monster that stood before them.

But he wouldn't have 'got' his victims without the charm. And fake leg plaster. But still, the charm.

The guys ego was off the charts high, he served as his own lawyer for gods sake

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

I think these killers are all different and can be as emotional or un-emotional as anybody. There is some evidence that they can be made into killers by their childhood, though I am certain that something else is involved beyond upbringing, some problem within the brain. As example I cite Andrei Chikatilo, convicted and executed for 53 murders of young women and girls and a few boys. His early chilhood was during the famine in Ukraine and he suffered malnutrition and may have witnessed canibalism, though this not known for certain. He was beaten at home and at school, his life was a total misery, so what was happening in his mind? Probably as a result of malnutrition and psychological factors, he was impotent in normal intercourse, and here is what may be the driving factor in his murders, for he only managed "it" when he inflicted pain and then death. It seems he did not have a great ego, was not a devious and manipulative person. Yet his pleasure was to torture and kill, he makes most other serial killers seem like Bambi..... However, the most disturing aspect, and this seems not to be unusual in these cases, is that he could have been caught very early in his "career". The police found evidence, belongings and blood samples, at his very first murder that was sufficient to arrest him. Yet poor police work led then to arrest the local "down and out". 52 known, and certainly many unknown victims of Chikatilo then died in the most foul ways because of stupidity and lazyness. I would say that killing was his emotion.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

I think these killers are all different and can be as emotional or un-emotional as anybody. There is some evidence that they can be made into killers by their childhood, though I am certain that something else is involved beyond upbringing, some problem within the brain. As example I cite Andrei Chikatilo, convicted and executed for 53 murders of young women and girls and a few boys. His early chilhood was during the famine in Ukraine and he suffered malnutrition and may have witnessed canibalism, though this not known for certain. He was beaten at home and at school, his life was a total misery, so what was happening in his mind? Probably as a result of malnutrition and psychological factors, he was impotent in normal intercourse, and here is what may be the driving factor in his murders, for he only managed "it" when he inflicted pain and then death. It seems he did not have a great ego, was not a devious and manipulative person. Yet his pleasure was to torture and kill, he makes most other serial killers seem like Bambi..... However, the most disturing aspect, and this seems not to be unusual in these cases, is that he could have been caught very early in his "career". The police found evidence, belongings and blood samples, at his very first murder that was sufficient to arrest him. Yet poor police work led then to arrest the local "down and out". 52 known, and certainly many unknown victims of Chikatilo then died in the most foul ways because of stupidity and lazyness. I would say that killing was his emotion.

Yeah there's no denying that most people that become serial killers had a messed up past, I also think that it's something in the brain that's off, and its a mix of the environment you grow up in and how your cared for that judges whether or not you become a serial killer. Bundy for instance said he grew up in a home and that his mother and father loved him very much, he said his parents should absolutely not be blamed for his crimes.

[LostSouls7]

Wow yeah these serial killers are scary.

I think they are pretty evil and yes just scary.

I also think we had more of these guys before violent video games.

I think killing in games let's people let out anger..

and not do it in real life.

I think these guys were just bored and had to much evil rage in them.

Imagine if they had Doom , they could do lots of killing in the video game.

And not have to actually hurt anyone.

[Antilles]

Most of these guys never saw video games but you're right in what you say. Bundy blamed porn. He probably watched a lot of it. These guys can't hold a stable relationship with a woman that 'normal' people would define as healthy. Often they're married but what they want they can't get or won't ask from their wives. Peter Sutcliffe went for prostitutes; John Wayne Gacy for male prostitutes. Serial killers often have an abnormally high sex drive or a sex drive that 'normal' partners can't or won't satisfy.

They hunt those who will satisfy.

Serial killers often begin with arson or injuring animals. No serial killer is ever fully born. They work up to it.

Shipman fascinates me. He watched his mother die from cancer and saw her being injecting with high levels of morphine etc to stop the pain. He then becomes addicted to methadone himself. He has a superman complex, as a lot of these serial killers do. Remember the sign in Sutcliffe's van? Something about a God is in here (something along those lines). Bundy certainly saw himself as a superman. Shipman then starts killing older people, usually older women, with hot shots. Remembering Mommy much?

But he goes further. Most serial killers keep a trophy from their victims - Jack the Ripper with the uterus, kidney etc - but Shipman kept the victim's money.

Bundy confessed to keep his worthless heart beating but in the end he couldn't outrun Florida's DP. Shipman never confessed and used the last bit of control he had left - he killed himself.

[Zaphod222]

Iv been fascinated with serial killers since I first turned 16, Iv read many books about them how they are created, nurture vs nature and all of that, I think it can be a number of different things that can turn someone into a serial killer. But I always hear the victims of these serial killers say that there emotionless and so on. Are they truly emotionless though, I mean they feel fear, excitement, happiness, the point is they feel the same emotions a lot of non killers do. The lack of a conscious is relative also, because Ed Kemper actually turned himself in because he knew that If he didn't he would continue to kill. He felt great remorse and even wanted a lobotomy to cut out the section of his brain that made him want to kill. I'm in no way condoning what serial killers do also hell I think David Berkowitz should have been given the death penalty, but lucked out because at the time there was no death penalty in the state that he was living.

I think you are generalizing too much. The label "serial killers" only describes what they have done. The individuals can be very different. I think it is really pointless to generalize like that. You have to state which individual you are looking at and discuss the particular case on its own.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Wow yeah these serial killers are scary.

I think they are pretty evil and yes just scary.

I also think we had more of these guys before violent video games.

I think killing in games let's people let out anger..

and not do it in real life.

I think these guys were just bored and had to much evil rage in them.

Imagine if they had Doom , they could do lots of killing in the video game.

And not have to actually hurt anyone.

I agree here. If games or porn was a major factor in causing people to violent crime, then I think we would all be knee deep in blood by now, but we are not. I think games and porn are an outlet for people, not a cause. Though of course the blockheaded religious puritans will never agree and I suspect any debate on this would run for some pages.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

I think you are generalizing too much. The label "serial killers" only describes what they have done. The individuals can be very different. I think it is really pointless to generalize like that. You have to state which individual you are looking at and discuss the particular case on its own.

That's just my point people group all these guys into one and call them emotionless monsters, if a serial Killer say Ted Bundy is caught and found out people are going to call him a serial killer. Its like a title. If anybody mentions Ted Bundy the first thing people think of in most cases is that he was a serial killer. Not everybody looks at the individual person which.

I agree here. If games or porn was a major factor in causing people to violent crime, then I think we would all be knee deep in blood by now, but we are not. I think games and porn are an outlet for people, not a cause. Though of course the blockheaded religious puritans will never agree and I suspect any debate on this would run for some pages.

A ton of people think that video games leads to more violent behavior and the whole porn thing is a mute point. The problems begin to show themselves when the person viewing this entertainment is off in the head to begin with. Iv played tons of violent video games and it does help me release my aggression but that's not the same for everyone.

Edited July 5, 2013 by R4z3rsPar4d0x

[DKO]

I too have a fascination with serial killers. I don't like what they do but I find it interesting how the human brain can create such a violent and dangerous person.

In the early 90s we had the Backpacker Murders. Ivan Milat was his name, cruel sadistic person. He would pick up backpackers hitchhiking then eventually pull over in a secluded place and force them at gun point into the bush. A few of his victims were stabbed in the spine to paralyse them.

The crazy thing is his nephew committed a copycat murder last year in the same forest his uncle committed his murders. Nature seeping through?

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

I too have a fascination with serial killers. I don't like what they do but I find it interesting how the human brain can create such a violent and dangerous person.

In the early 90s we had the Backpacker Murders. Ivan Milat was his name, cruel sadistic person. He would pick up backpackers hitchhiking then eventually pull over in a secluded place and force them at gun point into the bush. A few of his victims were stabbed in the spine to paralyse them.

The crazy thing is his nephew committed a copycat murder last year in the same forest his uncle committed his murders. Nature seeping through?

That or his nephew could have had the same type of genes that would allow someone to commit these terrible crimes.