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Sakari

Any Jehovah's Witness's believe in ghosts?

53 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Moses knew him face to face as the scripture says. Is Moses still alive?

Which scripture explains that?

Chances are as usual, someone whom hasn't studied the Bible has taken it out of context. I mean that respectfully.

Edit - Wait, *knowing* somebody face-to-face isn't the same as seeing them face-to-face.

Edited by Insaniac

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Posted (edited)

Gen_32:30

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exo_33:11

And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Edited by Realm

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Gen_32:30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Humbly, verse 22 explains Jacob arose *by night* with verse 24 explaining how he grappled with God. He certainly grappled with the Lord, but it was during the night when crossing the river Jabbok, I believe. Jacob never actually saw God's face from what scripture provides.

I meant to explain earlier that the Bible explains we cannot see God's *face* and live, not that we cannot see God as a living being. My apologies.

Exo_33:11

And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

If memory serves me correctly, this was during the time the ancient Israelite's were either escaping Egypt or on their way to the "Land flowing with milk and honey". Meaning, God took on the form of a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night.

The Lord saw Moses face-to-face quite literally, but Moses could not have seen God's face for He took on the form of a pillar of smoke/fire.

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Agnostic meaning " not sure what to believe in "....

I consider " atheist " meaning does not believe in a God.

Anyway, I do not think a Christian should call themselves a Christian if they bend the rules, same with any religion. So, for me, if a Jehova says he or she believes in ghosts, I would say they can not call themselves a Jehova.

Agnostic and Atheist seem like the same thing to me, Because Atheist don't believe there is a god and Agnostics don't know what to believe, So therefor there not praying to any higher power. But just my opinion

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Agnostic and Atheist seem like the same thing to me, Because Atheist don't believe there is a god and Agnostics don't know what to believe, So therefor there not praying to any higher power. But just my opinion

Well, I call myself Agnostic, that may be the wrong term.

As for not praying to any " power ", I " pray " in my own way. When people are hurting I ask for help for them, I am not asking anyone in particular, more like :

" Please, someone help these people "

And, it is a prayer of sorts. This goes for animals, myself, my parents, my wife, etc.....

I may not know what to believe, but there is nothing wrong with asking for help, maybe someone is listening and just might answer.

For me, I was baptised Lutheran. I saw to many people lying, and not following what they preach. I have witnessed this with Mormons, Christians, Jewish, etc,etc,etc.

I have read the Bible, and started on the Quran ( spelling? )....To many things in both I can not see being moral, or even possible. ( the flood for one ).

Buddhism would be a great fit for me, for what I have read anyway. Although, I could see myself being heathen.

Anyway, just rambling.....

How I live my life with no religion....

1. I help anyone that I can help, strangers included.As long as they are trying to help themselves.

2. I treat everyone, and everything how I want to be treated.

3. I do not judge people by how they look, how much money they have, or how clean their house is. I do judge people, by how they act, and how they present themselves to others, and to other things. ( Animals, environment, etc. )

4. I treat the environment and nature with respect, as I want to see my Grandchildren get to enjoy it.

5. I do everything I can to support my family, whether I like it or not.

6. I do not yell at anyone, I talk to everyone, and speak exactly how I feel. I do not sugarcoat anything, and I will not enable anyone by saying what they want to hear.

Anyway, have a great day :)

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Well, I call myself Agnostic, that may be the wrong term.

As for not praying to any " power ", I " pray " in my own way. When people are hurting I ask for help for them, I am not asking anyone in particular, more like :

" Please, someone help these people "

And, it is a prayer of sorts. This goes for animals, myself, my parents, my wife, etc.....

I may not know what to believe, but there is nothing wrong with asking for help, maybe someone is listening and just might answer.

For me, I was baptised Lutheran. I saw to many people lying, and not following what they preach. I have witnessed this with Mormons, Christians, Jewish, etc,etc,etc.

I have read the Bible, and started on the Quran ( spelling? )....To many things in both I can not see being moral, or even possible. ( the flood for one ).

Buddhism would be a great fit for me, for what I have read anyway. Although, I could see myself being heathen.

Anyway, just rambling.....

How I live my life with no religion....

1. I help anyone that I can help, strangers included.As long as they are trying to help themselves.

2. I treat everyone, and everything how I want to be treated.

3. I do not judge people by how they look, how much money they have, or how clean their house is. I do judge people, by how they act, and how they present themselves to others, and to other things. ( Animals, environment, etc. )

4. I treat the environment and nature with respect, as I want to see my Grandchildren get to enjoy it.

5. I do everything I can to support my family, whether I like it or not.

6. I do not yell at anyone, I talk to everyone, and speak exactly how I feel. I do not sugarcoat anything, and I will not enable anyone by saying what they want to hear.

Anyway, have a great day :)

You sound like a really cool person, and I'm in no way judging you heck I understand the point you were making about whether or not you believe in the afterlife and serve Jehovah that your not really following your religion. I think along those lines also, either be all in or don't be in at all. That's probably why I don't go to meetings anymore Its not that I don't believe in God Its just that I'm still trying to find myself

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You sound like a really cool person, and I'm in no way judging you heck I understand the point you were making about whether or not you believe in the afterlife and serve Jehovah that your not really following your religion. I think along those lines also, either be all in or don't be in at all. That's probably why I don't go to meetings anymore Its not that I don't believe in God Its just that I'm still trying to find myself

:tu:

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late coming into this, but here is my answer.

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. Most of my family is STILL JW's (I was excommunicated when I was 21)

No ghost.

They do believe that the 'devil' can convince people of htings, but that is why you are to have faith, walk in the 'truth', have many bible/scripture studies, and much work (faith without works is dead).

You die, you are dead. You do not go to heaven or hell.

You have no feelings/knowledge/nothing. a void if you would like to see it that way.

Then there will come the time you are brought back to life by god and you live on earth in peace for a thousand yrs (not everyone will be braought back), then satan will be loosened again, and allowed to temp, those who pass the temptation and remain true will continue everlasting life of peace, the rest will die. Satan will die.

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late coming into this, but here is my answer.

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. Most of my family is STILL JW's (I was excommunicated when I was 21)

No ghost.

They do believe that the 'devil' can convince people of htings, but that is why you are to have faith, walk in the 'truth', have many bible/scripture studies, and much work (faith without works is dead).

You die, you are dead. You do not go to heaven or hell.

You have no feelings/knowledge/nothing. a void if you would like to see it that way.

Then there will come the time you are brought back to life by god and you live on earth in peace for a thousand yrs (not everyone will be braought back), then satan will be loosened again, and allowed to temp, those who pass the temptation and remain true will continue everlasting life of peace, the rest will die. Satan will die.

Thank You..... :tu:

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keep in mind, believing in demons is NOT the same as ghosts (not to JW's), here is the reason.

As a christian you believe in God, Jesus, Holy Ghost, Satan, angels.

You do not call them 'ghosts'.

Jw's believe that satan will take many forms, some good, some bad, many are seductive to your senses, in order to make you doubt your faith in the 'truth', in Jehovah.

Satan and his evil minions/bad angels? will take the form of your dead loved ones or friends in order to make you believe in ghosts and doubt that when you are dead.. you are dead...

Thus enticing you from Jehovah.

So, no they do not believe in Ghosts, they believe in demons/Satan trying to take you away from god, and they believe Jehovah is Jesus' father, Jesus is Jehovahs only begotten son, and that there are many Angels.

Satan is a fallen angel, and many angels followed him.

They are not ghosts.

(i am now and atheist and consider it all a fairy tale gone wrong, but oh well)

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Who's to say some witnesses don't believe in the afterlife

If one says they are JW's and they believe in the after life, then they do not believe as a true JW.

JW's do not believe in 'afterlife'. They believe ONLY 144,000 will go to heaven, period. no ands if's or buts. Period.

That is basically 'final' when it comes to JW's.

Those 144,000 will help Jesus rule the earth/eden. They will all be men, and they will not be communicating with US in any way shape or form in todays life.

They believe everyone else will die. Thats it. Die. Not die and go to heaven, not die and go to hell, they will die.

AFTER the 'final' war between good and evil, Jehovah, through is ONLy beotten son will resurrect many people, not everyone, and no one knows who it will be. Those people will live in eden, many believe it will be for a period of 1000 yrs, but no one is for sure, then Satan will be loosened for a short tie to do his 'last' enticing. After a period of time, all those who remained true will live life eternal on paradise earth. The rest will be cast away (eternal death) and satan destroyed never to come again.

Now, if you mean life after death.. as in during the resurrection, then yes there is life after death for some. But not as ghosts.

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OK, so if I've got this right, JW's do not believe in an immediate afterlife, and that all ghosts are non-human spiritual entities, be it demonic or angelic.

I wonder if they believe in the possibility of intelligent, advanced life on some other planets, and ET UFO's.

I presume their answer would be no??

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Posted (edited)

OK, so if I've got this right, JW's do not believe in an immediate afterlife, and that all ghosts are non-human spiritual entities, be it demonic or angelic.

I wonder if they believe in the possibility of intelligent, advanced life on some other planets, and ET UFO's.

I presume their answer would be no??

the answer is most likely no but allow that only Jehovah has all the answers.

They also believe the earth is protected. Man may destroy much of it, maybe even most of one another. Asteroids et, may fall on earth and damage us, BUT.. we will NOT be wiped out. We will not be utterly destroyed. Jehovah will not tolerate that.

As per aliens from other worlds, JW's are not told there is no such thing, rather, it is implied if there is another planet with life, it would be something Jehovah wished for and is no concern of ours.

I took the liberty of looking this up to a point, from google (i still have relatives within the faith and so knew that there was some teachings per this, only the elders of the family are permitted to communicate with me)

November 8, 1990 Awake pg 11 states:The Christian apostle Paul gave due warning ofdemon influence in the last days when he wrote: “The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.”—1 Timothy 4:1.

Keeping in mind how deep we are into these apocalyptic days, it would not be advisable for Christians to spend their valuable time investigating in depth matters of this kind. Rather, we should concern ourselves with the more important challenge at hand, that is, obeying the command of the extraterrestrial holy angel who proclaimed: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”—Revelation 14:6, 7

Source(s):

www.watchtower.org

http://answers.yahoo...25053129AAjZ0k3

Edited by willowdreams

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here is a take on aliens and JW's I have never been privy to before. I have not checked the site out much at all, so it could be a joke, but it sounds like how JW's would conduct a bible study

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/210520/1/Atheist-believe-in-aliens-but-not-God

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before anyone says I am wrong, that they 'know' of a JW who says... or believes;; in spite of what their religion says..

Real believing/followers being Jehovah's Witnesses will NOT go against the teachings, because inside the faith, the teachings are call 'the truth', to turn away even a tiny bit, can and will get you punished. in my case, excommunication. All I did was sign a peice of paper telling the doctors that if my newborn daughter needed a blood transfusion at birth, to do it.. she did NOT need it, but I signed papers, refused to repent and make restitution, so I had to be 'lovingly punished'.

There are those who say one thing and do another, say 'well Jehovah says.. but I a weak'.. usually when caught by elders doing their wrong doing, they are really taught deeply, many scripture studies.. many meetings.. et et.. eventually after a while, they may be excommunicated.. or something a bit milder..

my Grandmother smoked.. as a result she was denied the chance to be baptized. That is a BIG no no. I was deeply involved, my grandmother raised me, but she did so within the faith, her children, were JW's, their spouses are JW's, their children are JW's, most of my uncles are elders!

From 8 yrs up, I had one personal weekly bible study during the week, then group bible study on tuesday nights, theocracy school on thursday nights, saturday was 'out in service' (door to door with adults), then sunday was sunday meetings at the kingdom hall and then afterwords a small lunch then ;out in service', this was until I was 18, and was baptized, then I still had the exact same schedule however, added on was me being a personal teacher, who went to someones house to do their personal weekly bible study.

Plus, you are expected to give more hours in service, most pple, myself included, tried to do 20 hours a week, this did count for bible studies, but most of it needed to be in 'door to door' and meeting with those pple you went door to door to.

plus you tithed.

You must understand, you get so involved you do NOT have time to dwell on outside things. You do not dwell on gossip of the stars, stars lives.. you do not dwell on 'is there life on other planets', you do not 'dwell', because almost nightly you are having some kind of bible study with someone, then weekends you are door to door.

Children are expected to learn how to conduct themselves at meetings as they do not separate children from adults, there is no 'childs sunday school'.

And i do not say it is BAD. very family oriented, all these church things are expected to be done at least partially with the family/kids.

It is just that a real Jehovah's witness, concentrates on 'jehovahs truth' and getting it out there, rather then dwell in worldly matters.

They believe in living within the world, but not becoming part of it.

You pay to cesars what is due him. the rest belongs to jehovah.

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Posted (edited)

before anyone says I am wrong, that they 'know' of a JW who says... or believes;; in spite of what their religion says..

Real believing/followers being Jehovah's Witnesses will NOT go against the teachings, because inside the faith, the teachings are call 'the truth', to turn away even a tiny bit, can and will get you punished. in my case, excommunication. All I did was sign a peice of paper telling the doctors that if my newborn daughter needed a blood transfusion at birth, to do it.. she did NOT need it, but I signed papers, refused to repent and make restitution, so I had to be 'lovingly punished'.

There are those who say one thing and do another, say 'well Jehovah says.. but I a weak'.. usually when caught by elders doing their wrong doing, they are really taught deeply, many scripture studies.. many meetings.. et et.. eventually after a while, they may be excommunicated.. or something a bit milder..

my Grandmother smoked.. as a result she was denied the chance to be baptized. That is a BIG no no. I was deeply involved, my grandmother raised me, but she did so within the faith, her children, were JW's, their spouses are JW's, their children are JW's, most of my uncles are elders!

From 8 yrs up, I had one personal weekly bible study during the week, then group bible study on tuesday nights, theocracy school on thursday nights, saturday was 'out in service' (door to door with adults), then sunday was sunday meetings at the kingdom hall and then afterwords a small lunch then ;out in service', this was until I was 18, and was baptized, then I still had the exact same schedule however, added on was me being a personal teacher, who went to someones house to do their personal weekly bible study.

Plus, you are expected to give more hours in service, most pple, myself included, tried to do 20 hours a week, this did count for bible studies, but most of it needed to be in 'door to door' and meeting with those pple you went door to door to.

plus you tithed.

You must understand, you get so involved you do NOT have time to dwell on outside things. You do not dwell on gossip of the stars, stars lives.. you do not dwell on 'is there life on other planets', you do not 'dwell', because almost nightly you are having some kind of bible study with someone, then weekends you are door to door.

Children are expected to learn how to conduct themselves at meetings as they do not separate children from adults, there is no 'childs sunday school'.

And i do not say it is BAD. very family oriented, all these church things are expected to be done at least partially with the family/kids.

It is just that a real Jehovah's witness, concentrates on 'jehovahs truth' and getting it out there, rather then dwell in worldly matters.

They believe in living within the world, but not becoming part of it.

You pay to cesars what is due him. the rest belongs to jehovah.

I'll bet you have some awesome stories from your " door to door " ventures....That would make a great book to be honest.

And thanks for the replies, very informative.

And also, sorry a religion goes so low as to " banish " anyone, especially a family member. That is sad, and wrong.

....

....

Edited by Sakari

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I'll bet you have some awesome stories from your " door to door " ventures....That would make a great book to be honest.

And thanks for the replies, very informative.

And also, sorry a religion goes so low as to " banish " anyone, especially a family member. That is sad, and wrong.

....

....

Nods, it is sad that they do excommunicate baptized members. heh, if I was not baptized, and did it, i could still be involved, bible studies, door to door.. only difference is, not being baptized means that i would always need a partner (as I could not teach by myself, just 'aid' others).. but i would still be 'involved'

After I was excommunicated, it was hard, because it means what it says, excommunicate. Only the elders would/will speak with me. Now if one of them come to my door, i do let them know of my status, they are polite and will say they are sorry, then leave.

No rudeness, no 'snubbing', just no communication/association

which makes it soooo much harder.

it is the 'fellowship', I miss. After leaving i stopped eating, sleeping, breathing, everything. I stopped the daily bible studies, did not go to church/kingdom hall three times a week for studies. I could have, just sat in the back in silence and just listened, but I did not want that. to much of a people person.

Once I stopped all the hours of just reading/studying JW scipture, I began filling my hours with other things, like.. worldly people who spoke of books, science, astronomy.. (haleys comet was coming!) I started studying other things, reading about other faiths ON MY OWN.

SOmething you all may not know.

If you have this weeks 'watchtower', you know exactly what the sunday meeting is about. If you have this weeks watchtower and awake, you know exactly what thursday meeting theocracy school is.

IN EVERY single kingdom hall in the world.

See, the mags issues are printed in bethal ny.. (well, i am sure there are other printing presses too) but the main office is in new york. They print the mags in all the languages the witnesses are 'teaching' in.. then mail them off.

Those questions at the bottom of the watchtowers on each page? When you go to the meetings on sunday, a member reads one paragraph, then the elder leading that sunday asks the question/s at bottom of page, another member answers. and so on, then after the hour of watchtower study, another member will do a 30 to 60 min talk pertaining to that issue and how that subjected helped/helps them in every day life.

Thursday after that, the rest of the watch tower, and sometimes the awake, is read cover to cover and 'discussed'.

This way, each kingdom hall is on the same level as the next kingdom hall.! Seriously, I think that is awesome. not even major companies can keep that strict a watch/hold on all their lil off shoots.

SO for a long time i read both, cover to cover several times a week... but then i weaned off of them, and began THINKING, it is like I woke up.. something happened and I began eating other foods.. breathing the same air as everyone else..

Sometimes I think it is easier to become an atheist when you lived a faith so deep that you were not encouraged to think any other thoughts.. whenever a witness wants to take a hobby, or study something, you first ask yourself.. is this pleasing to jehovah? Will then be good for my family and help enrich them somehow?

SO yes, you stop thinking outside of the faith and remain inside.. so when you suddenly find yourself cut off, even though i was to feel empty, scared and alone, it was intended to encourage me to want to come back.. and to pay restitution and to be restored back into the 'truth' and with my family and friends.

most of the time i think that fails and you begin thinking for yourself.. and when you suddenly 'wake up', and start thinking, it is easier to stop believing and becoming an atheist.

I think if you just claimed to be a faith, went to services and all, but still lived within the world and was sitll part of it.. your friends and family were not ALL of your faith, then its harder to break free, because you still keep that tiny thread, since you managed to make excuses to remian part of hte world and part of the faith..

My strings were all cut off.. and i was left to free fall.. and I landed softly.. on my own.

*shrugs* just my personal experience.

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Posted (edited)

If one says they are JW's and they believe in the after life, then they do not believe as a true JW.

JW's do not believe in 'afterlife'. They believe ONLY 144,000 will go to heaven, period. no ands if's or buts. Period.

That is basically 'final' when it comes to JW's.

Those 144,000 will help Jesus rule the earth/eden. They will all be men, and they will not be communicating with US in any way shape or form in todays life.

They believe everyone else will die. Thats it. Die. Not die and go to heaven, not die and go to hell, they will die.

AFTER the 'final' war between good and evil, Jehovah, through is ONLy beotten son will resurrect many people, not everyone, and no one knows who it will be. Those people will live in eden, many believe it will be for a period of 1000 yrs, but no one is for sure, then Satan will be loosened for a short tie to do his 'last' enticing. After a period of time, all those who remained true will live life eternal on paradise earth. The rest will be cast away (eternal death) and satan destroyed never to come again.

Now, if you mean life after death.. as in during the resurrection, then yes there is life after death for some. But not as ghosts.

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x

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If one says they are JW's and they believe in the after life, then they do not believe as a true JW.

JW's do not believe in 'afterlife'. They believe ONLY 144,000 will go to heaven, period. no ands if's or buts. Period.

That is basically 'final' when it comes to JW's.

Those 144,000 will help Jesus rule the earth/eden. They will all be men, and they will not be communicating with US in any way shape or form in todays life.

They believe everyone else will die. Thats it. Die. Not die and go to heaven, not die and go to hell, they will die.

AFTER the 'final' war between good and evil, Jehovah, through is ONLy beotten son will resurrect many people, not everyone, and no one knows who it will be. Those people will live in eden, many believe it will be for a period of 1000 yrs, but no one is for sure, then Satan will be loosened for a short tie to do his 'last' enticing. After a period of time, all those who remained true will live life eternal on paradise earth. The rest will be cast away (eternal death) and satan destroyed never to come again.

Now, if you mean life after death.. as in during the resurrection, then yes there is life after death for some. But not as ghosts.

Ahhh okay its like I said in an earlier post I don't go to meetings anymore or any of that, My uncle believes that ghosts exist but then again he's been disfellowshipped for a long time now. Can I ask you what made you an atheist?

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Posted (edited)

Ahhh okay its like I said in an earlier post I don't go to meetings anymore or any of that, My uncle believes that ghosts exist but then again he's been disfellowshipped for a long time now. Can I ask you what made you an atheist?

well, I reckon we would say 'life' made me an atheist.

I spent all my childhood and youth inside a 'religion', and no you cannot say that my religion was cultish, because in the end, ALL religions (not talking bout philosophies) believe in you 'living' your faith.

But when you live a life so strict that you eat, sleep and breathe it, you do stop thinking outside it. You believe god is the end all be all, and all those outside the faith things are not important unless it is helping you spiritually.

Once you break away and suddenly start thinking.. then something happens.

For me, it was the universe. I mean that in a literal way.

I learned that you could study to stars to learn our beginnings... I learned that in the study of other planets, stars.. asteral bodies, that things ended. Period. Nothing is forever, not even our solar system. Suddenly I began to broaden things a bit.

I then began to study our history and life on earth. Don't get me wrong, in watchtowers and awakes you actually study other peoples religions, you study philosophical things, and science, and history.. but you learn it under the rules of what the leaders in Bethal Publishing prayerfull feel you need led. They give you a paragraph about something, then two or three questions, you need to answer those questions spiritually, then another paragraph, so no you do not actually get the full study, you get fed the spiritual food of history and science and religions in order to further the 'truth'.

Once I had no one leading me and I began actual studies, I suddenly realized that history does NOT begin with the Garden of Eden and adam and eve.. It begins with fossils that have no man in it.

I studied more and once I realized the garden of eden was more of a 'story', allegory .. then suddenly I realized the bible is NOT some inspired word that is the end all be all, so I then began realizing there is no real or literal inspired true holy book. Once I realized that, I then began to understand there is not even any proof of god.

Now, I call myself an atheist, but I have an open mind as well((most atheist do, not sure I have ever met a closed minded one, but I could be wrong) . I understand that I really cannot truly grasp everything, there may indeed be a creator out there, I do not think there is, but I understand there could be.

But no way in heck do I think it is the being anyone here on earth thinks it is.

I then realized I had been doing good htings, because I wanted to be born again on a perfect earth, I wanted to be good because I was told to be good so I could get rewarded.. I then realized that is sooo wrong on so many levels.

Heck, if a god has to bribe you to be good so you get good rewards, you are NOT a worthy person.

I began to think for myself and realized in the end, I do good, not so i can get a reward, but because I honestly do not believe in god, I do not believe in life ever after.

I do believe I want to LIVE and be happy, I understand that MY actions or inactions can hurt or help another.

I understand that I cannot always help others, I get it that sometimes my getting what I need may mean someone else does not get it.. I need a job.. I filled a slot someone else could have gotten.

So I understand I cannot be perfect.

I can though, live my life to the best that I can so that maybe another person or persons also get to be a bit happier.. I do not think you have another life after this

so why would I want your only chance at life to be unhappy because of ME?

I suddenly realized I now do good things, not for a reward, but because I feel empathy.. I care, and I do not believe in an afterlife. SO I want to make sure my only life is happy, maybe not rich with money and material things, but happy.. and in turn, I do not want to be responsible for YOUR only life to be unhappy.

I then realized that though I cannot say there is no creator, I just personally believe there is none. I understand I do not know everything, but I definately know that the bible and other so called holy scriptures are no more holier then the cup of assam tea I am about to drink.

In a sense I feel like somewhere along the line, I grew up. I no longer need someone holding my hand and feeding me the food they feel I need to be fed.

I grew up.

and amazingly, I feel better for it.

Edited by willowdreams

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Posted (edited)

When my cousin (my dad's nephew) came home from fighting in Vietnam he said the guys he served with either chose drugs or religion to cope. He chose religion. Someone he served with or shortly after interested him in JW. My family (numbers) is very small on my mom's and dad's side. We always got together on my dad's side for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Now that my uncle's son was a Witness my aunt and uncle stopped celebrating holidays out of respect for him. It was very shocking and sad for my dad. My cousin's wife left him because he refused to allow his daughter to celebrate her birthday etc. He remarried a JW and also converted his brother's family.

My cousin eventually became someone in the JW faith who traveled the country speaking to Witnesses. Yet, they would not "celebrate" Halloween, but they would have a costume party with their JW friends around the time of Halloween at their home. They did not celebrate birthdays, and yet would show up at my grandmother's around her birthday with flowers and not a birthday card but a "Thinking of You" card. And visit us sometime over the holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years). No gifts or "Merry Christmas's" though. And they did celebrate (came to the parties) high school graduations for my sister's kids.

I was reading their literature as a teen at the time, they kept trying to convert my grandmother so she had their literature. And I felt their practices were hypocritical to me. They destroyed our family in a way (we had so few relatives) by stopping our many years of celebrating holidays together. We loved our cousin's wife who left our family and felt, rightly so, he chose religion over his wife and child. And yet they had their own "versions" of "celebrating" certain events. Having no understanding behind their own personal holidays practices, as well as the lack thereof, I felt they were hypocritical. Rumors in the family were they even had their own "Thanksgiving" type meal around November.

And again, my cousin was someone "respected" or "high up" or whatever they are in JW who traveled a lot speaking.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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well, I reckon we would say 'life' made me an atheist.

I spent all my childhood and youth inside a 'religion', and no you cannot say that my religion was cultish, because in the end, ALL religions (not talking bout philosophies) believe in you 'living' your faith.

But when you live a life so strict that you eat, sleep and breathe it, you do stop thinking outside it. You believe god is the end all be all, and all those outside the faith things are not important unless it is helping you spiritually.

Once you break away and suddenly start thinking.. then something happens.

For me, it was the universe. I mean that in a literal way.

I learned that you could study to stars to learn our beginnings... I learned that in the study of other planets, stars.. asteral bodies, that things ended. Period. Nothing is forever, not even our solar system. Suddenly I began to broaden things a bit.

I then began to study our history and life on earth. Don't get me wrong, in watchtowers and awakes you actually study other peoples religions, you study philosophical things, and science, and history.. but you learn it under the rules of what the leaders in Bethal Publishing prayerfull feel you need led. They give you a paragraph about something, then two or three questions, you need to answer those questions spiritually, then another paragraph, so no you do not actually get the full study, you get fed the spiritual food of history and science and religions in order to further the 'truth'.

Once I had no one leading me and I began actual studies, I suddenly realized that history does NOT begin with the Garden of Eden and adam and eve.. It begins with fossils that have no man in it.

I studied more and once I realized the garden of eden was more of a 'story', allegory .. then suddenly I realized the bible is NOT some inspired word that is the end all be all, so I then began realizing there is no real or literal inspired true holy book. Once I realized that, I then began to understand there is not even any proof of god.

Now, I call myself an atheist, but I have an open mind as well((most atheist do, not sure I have ever met a closed minded one, but I could be wrong) . I understand that I really cannot truly grasp everything, there may indeed be a creator out there, I do not think there is, but I understand there could be.

But no way in heck do I think it is the being anyone here on earth thinks it is.

I then realized I had been doing good htings, because I wanted to be born again on a perfect earth, I wanted to be good because I was told to be good so I could get rewarded.. I then realized that is sooo wrong on so many levels.

Heck, if a god has to bribe you to be good so you get good rewards, you are NOT a worthy person.

I began to think for myself and realized in the end, I do good, not so i can get a reward, but because I honestly do not believe in god, I do not believe in life ever after.

I do believe I want to LIVE and be happy, I understand that MY actions or inactions can hurt or help another.

I understand that I cannot always help others, I get it that sometimes my getting what I need may mean someone else does not get it.. I need a job.. I filled a slot someone else could have gotten.

So I understand I cannot be perfect.

I can though, live my life to the best that I can so that maybe another person or persons also get to be a bit happier.. I do not think you have another life after this

so why would I want your only chance at life to be unhappy because of ME?

I suddenly realized I now do good things, not for a reward, but because I feel empathy.. I care, and I do not believe in an afterlife. SO I want to make sure my only life is happy, maybe not rich with money and material things, but happy.. and in turn, I do not want to be responsible for YOUR only life to be unhappy.

I then realized that though I cannot say there is no creator, I just personally believe there is none. I understand I do not know everything, but I definately know that the bible and other so called holy scriptures are no more holier then the cup of assam tea I am about to drink.

In a sense I feel like somewhere along the line, I grew up. I no longer need someone holding my hand and feeding me the food they feel I need to be fed.

I grew up.

and amazingly, I feel better for it.

So do you believe in evolution now?

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So do you believe in evolution now?

always did! most JW's do, but not for humans. I believe in it for humans NOW, it makes sense.

I always understood fossiles, we were taught in public schools, still are, JW's do not segregate, they feel children need to learn to live IN the world, but not become part of it (i really do not know how to explain it heh)

But, during personal bible studies we were taught the 'truth', humans began as adam and eve.. but remeber, god created any beasts! and they did evolve, i do not ever remember being told why humans did not, i remember being taught they de evolved (my words)

See, we are taught that in the beginning, adam and eve were perfect and immortal. then they sinned and were cast from perfection, and they had a long life, long long long life, was not considered strange because they were close to perfection without being perfect, as time moved on, you move further from perfection and your life span shortened, then of course we began learning medicine and all to help us live longer, but.. because we are so far from perfection we will not extend much farther then a 100 yrs or a lil over.

Until earth is turned to the garden of eden once more.

SO I believed in evolution for beasts/germs/bacteria et et et, just not for humans. Humans became more educated as time moved forward, but that is about it.

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Posted (edited)

When my cousin (my dad's nephew) came home from fighting in Vietnam he said the guys he served with either chose drugs or religion to cope. He chose religion. Someone he served with or shortly after interested him in JW. My family (numbers) is very small on my mom's and dad's side. We always got together on my dad's side for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Now that my uncle's son was a Witness my aunt and uncle stopped celebrating holidays out of respect for him. It was very shocking and sad for my dad. My cousin's wife left him because he refused to allow his daughter to celebrate her birthday etc. He remarried a JW and also converted his brother's family.

My cousin eventually became someone in the JW faith who traveled the country speaking to Witnesses. Yet, they would not "celebrate" Halloween, but they would have a costume party with their JW friends around the time of Halloween at their home. They did not celebrate birthdays, and yet would show up at my grandmother's around her birthday with flowers and not a birthday card but a "Thinking of You" card. And visit us sometime over the holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years). No gifts or "Merry Christmas's" though. And they did celebrate (came to the parties) high school graduations for my sister's kids.

I was reading their literature as a teen at the time, they kept trying to convert my grandmother so she had their literature. And I felt their practices were hypocritical to me. They destroyed our family in a way (we had so few relatives) by stopping our many years of celebrating holidays together. We loved our cousin's wife who left our family and felt, rightly so, he chose religion over his wife and child. And yet they had their own "versions" of "celebrating" certain events. Having no understanding behind their own personal holidays practices, as well as the lack thereof, I felt they were hypocritical. Rumors in the family were they even had their own "Thanksgiving" type meal around November.

And again, my cousin was someone "respected" or "high up" or whatever they are in JW who traveled a lot speaking.

I am so sorry to hear your family was torn apart.

I know as I was growing up, JW's would make allowances, not to celebrate, but to keep from pushing non belieiving family away. I never celebrated bdays, or holidays.. but so that young children did not feel so left out and cause issues, we did have costume parties, also.. during xmas and all a member of our kingdom hall, an elder, owned a lot of land, it obviously in WV snowed a lot in december, sooooooooo round holidays when we had no school, we went to his home and played hard, there were square dances.. games where you could win cakes and pies.. or little toys and books for kids, there was sledding and even a hay ride at night after a big bbq to a large area where someone had huge cast iron culdron things over fire with hot cocoa and marshmellows, we would drink cocoa and melt marshmallows on a stick.

This way when we went back to school and teachers would have kids write what they did over xmas break, us kids always had something fun to write about. we fit in without being part of them.

We were taught not to push away non believing family members, but e could not break our rules of no bday and all, so instead.. to encourage non belieiving family members and to remain in contact (they are not baptized so.. they are still able to be helped, not disfellowshipped or excommunicated).. we could instead have appreciation for them.. i loving gift, or card.. so we stay in contact in order to keep encouraging them towards the truth.

http://uk.answers.ya...06090208AAOirPM

gives an oversimplified answer to becomming a missionary, ANY male who is not married but is in good standing in the faith can becoming a misisonary, females CAN be, but normally that are married and they and their husband join together. this is not common.

It is harder for a woman, because once a man becomes baptized, she is no longer allowed to teach them.. UNLESS she wears a head covering signifying that the man is 'head' over her... as christ is head over man. It is still encouraged though for the men to be teaching baptized men.

Even at the hall meetings, if a woman is called upon to do an opening or closing prayer, she rises, and places a covering over her head signifying she is under the man.. man is over her.. and christ is over him..

Again, I am sorry your family was ripped apart.

I still am in contact with my family to a 'point', but not in a family way as i am excommunicated and refuse to repent and make restitution.

Only the elders can communicate with me in any depth and it is more to keep me abreast of 'rules' and ways.. and the truth, in order to lovingly encourage me back.

Not gonna happen but, one never wants to lose 100% contact with your family, just sad that i never will have a close relatinship again, and my children do not even know them :(

Edited by willowdreams

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Posted (edited)

always did! most JW's do, but not for humans. I believe in it for humans NOW, it makes sense.

I always understood fossiles, we were taught in public schools, still are, JW's do not segregate, they feel children need to learn to live IN the world, but not become part of it (i really do not know how to explain it heh)

But, during personal bible studies we were taught the 'truth', humans began as adam and eve.. but remeber, god created any beasts! and they did evolve, i do not ever remember being told why humans did not, i remember being taught they de evolved (my words)

See, we are taught that in the beginning, adam and eve were perfect and immortal. then they sinned and were cast from perfection, and they had a long life, long long long life, was not considered strange because they were close to perfection without being perfect, as time moved on, you move further from perfection and your life span shortened, then of course we began learning medicine and all to help us live longer, but.. because we are so far from perfection we will not extend much farther then a 100 yrs or a lil over.

Until earth is turned to the garden of eden once more.

SO I believed in evolution for beasts/germs/bacteria et et et, just not for humans. Humans became more educated as time moved forward, but that is about it.

OK, animals yeah but I thought they never found the "missing Link" connecting apes to humans?

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x

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